Request from Roleplayers

MornaBaine · February 2015

Dear ZOS,
You claim to care very deeply about your roleplaying community. And you do seem to try to engage with us, as the Tamriel Chronicle shows. However, you chose (for reasons I'm sure seemed compelling to you) NOT to give us an RP shard/server, etc. And frankly, I've yet to see an RP server that did not get invaded by non-roleplayers in any other game I've played anyway, usually to the point of pretty much destroying them. It is a sad truth that an unfortunately large part of the human race is cruel and stupid and there's not much you can do about it.

I am part of a roleplaying guild and we have a lot of involvement with other roleplaying guilds. It's a great deal of fun for us. However, I have never, EVER been roleplaying without someone trolling the RP session at some point, at least once. Trolling takes all sorts of "imaginative" forms like:
start saying really rude and demeaning things
spam spells
stand in the middle of whatever is going on and dance
stand within other characters (thanks lack of collision) just to be annoying
start playing instruments while standing "in your face"

To get a GM's intervention they have to get a flurry of reports from several players and the offender has to be dumb enough to stick around long enough to be caught by the GM.

Generally speaking what happens is a series of "drive by" trollings by multiple people who will come over, be rude and disruptive for a few moments and then move on. This happens MULTIPLE TIMES in any RP session I have ever been in and it is the common experience of every single roleplayer in the game.

The arrival of the B2P model is going to make this situation worse than ever. You already KNOW it is. So what are you going to do about it ZOS?

I already fear that the answer will be, "absolutely nothing."

Combating trolling is part of why player housing is so desperately desired. But you've shown no indication that you are interested in even beginning that project. And even if you told us you were starting work on it tomorrow we know it would still be many, many moths AFTER B2P hits before we could even optimistically hope to see it implemented.

But there IS something you can do, relatively simply. Give us empty instances. Houses and taverns, maybe even the castles and a few dungeons. No mobs, no XP gain, just EMPTY versions of spaces that already exist. Then let us be able to go into them as a group. All roleplayers REALLY need is a troll-free space to play in. This need is filled by many other games because dungeons and other content are instanced/phased to your group only. So you can go in, do the content, and then have the space to roleplay in.

As a "for instance" when I was playing Age of Conan there was a dungeon called Bubshur House in the Stygian lowbie zone. It was filled with zombies. Since much lower level NPCs were smart enough to NOT attack player characters significantly higher than themselves (unlike the ones in THIS game) my Necromancer eventually adopted it as her personal library and the wandering undead were her "servants." I could then group with other players and my Necro could have a nice quiet conversation about the finer points of flensing a skeleton while showing off her collection of necromantic tomes and scrolls.

The point is, you could get to a troll-free space to roleplay in peace. Whereas you, ZOS, have made that completely impossible. So please, I implore you, before you go B2P, show your roleplayers (who are going to be spending a ton of money in your crown store) just a little bit of consideration and throw us this bone. Please.

Thank you.

jluceyub17_ESO · February 2015

Have you considered moving your RP sessions to Cadwell's gold territory? Those zones are usually pretty dead, so you would get a lot less trolls. Also the entrance areas of Trials could provide you with the 12-man instance zones you're looking for.

While I enjoy the occasional RP session the reality of the new business model is that updates are going to be driven by what would interest the largest groups of people to buy them. Unfortunately that means RP-minded players are not going to see much, with the exception of costume packs, since they don't make up a large enough market.

Instancing taverns in large cities would likely create a heavier server load and also be ripe for abuse by players looking to farm motifs/recipes.

pullbcarepull · February 2015

What if those folks trolling you are just role-playing very rude people?

AlnilamE · February 2015

jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »

Instancing taverns in large cities would likely create a heavier server load and also be ripe for abuse by players looking to farm motifs/recipes.

Containers are already instanced to the player, so I don't see how this would crate abuse?

It would be nice if there were some instances that allowed more than 4 players. Some of the group dungeons would make for nice RP settings, but you can only get 4 people in there at most...

MornaBaine · February 2015

pullbcarepull wrote: »

What if those folks trolling you are just role-playing very rude people?

Thank you for illustrating exactly why we need what I'm asking for.

MornaBaine · February 2015

jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »

Have you considered moving your RP sessions to Cadwell's gold territory? Those zones are usually pretty dead, so you would get a lot less trolls. Also the entrance areas of Trials could provide you with the 12-man instance zones you're looking for.

While I enjoy the occasional RP session the reality of the new business model is that updates are going to be driven by what would interest the largest groups of people to buy them. Unfortunately that means RP-minded players are not going to see much, with the exception of costume packs, since they don't make up a large enough market.

Instancing taverns in large cities would likely create a heavier server load and also be ripe for abuse by players looking to farm motifs/recipes.

I would LOVE to RP in some of the gold and silver areas. In fact that is the only reason I can stand them because I hate the very concept of the Cadwell's silver and gold quests. But that unfortunately means that a lot of characters CANNOT play there because those areas are level locked. Right now only my main can get there. The level 6 villain I played for my most recent plotline (and who died a rather terrible and messy death) could not have been in any of those areas, regardless of how desirable they are for roleplaying. Plus, location does matter for a lot of roleplay. My Breton nobles really have no reason to be in Malabal Tor.

Someone else has already pointed out why farming motifs and mats would not be a big issue but I'll go even further. Take them out of the empty instances. No NPCs, no lootable containers. Just the space. That's really all we need or want.

UrQuan · February 2015

MornaBaine wrote: »

And you do seem to try to engage with us, as the Tamriel Chronicle shows. However, you chose (for reasons I'm sure seemed compelling to you) NOT to give us an RP shard/server, etc.

Well...

MornaBaine wrote: »

And frankly, I've yet to see an RP server that did not get invaded by non-roleplayers in any other game I've played anyway, usually to the point of pretty much destroying them.

That right there is probably exactly the reason they didn't want to give people an RP server. Why bother with another server to maintain when it's not really going to benefit the RP community anyway?

As far as your request goes, there are already solo instances and group instances of loads of dungeons and quest locations in the game anyway. How could adding group instances (preferably instanced for large groups) of a few buildings in towns cause any real issues? Seems like a reasonable thing to do for the RPers to me.

Now personally, I enjoy RPing with traditional pen and paper games across a tabletop, but I have little to no interest in RPing in an MMO. When I stumble across a group of folks RPing in my travels across Tamriel, I tend to just keep moving, unless I have something specific I wanted to do in the area (like check a bunch of bookcases). I've never understood the appeal of trolling RPers.

Tandor · February 2015

To me, Cadwell's is the very contradiction of role-playing, hence although I am not an active role-player my characters will not, with the present content, advance beyond level 50. I will see the different Alliance areas through different characters.

Moreover, limiting role-play to that section of the game would mean losing role-players long before they were of a level to participate in any meaningful role-play.

Unfortunately for the OP, however, with only one server per region there is never going to be a separate role-play server. The best that one could ask for would be some kind of instancing system for role-play sessions, but I doubt that ZOS could justify meeting that demand.

MornaBaine · February 2015

Tandor wrote: »

To me, Cadwell's is the very contradiction of role-playing, hence although I am not an active role-player my characters will not, with the present content, advance beyond level 50. I will see the different Alliance areas through different characters.

Moreover, limiting role-play to that section of the game would mean losing role-players long before they were of a level to participate in any meaningful role-play.

Unfortunately for the OP, however, with only one server per region there is never going to be a separate role-play server. The best that one could ask for would be some kind of instancing system for role-play sessions, but I doubt that ZOS could justify meeting that demand.

That's pretty much what I'm asking for. Areas that are already instanced would give you a choice when you click on the door with something like choices of Regular Instance and Empty Instance. Houses and taverns that are open to the public already can have the same message when you click on the door to enter them. Those who are grouped with you would automatically get the instance you are in. is it some work for ZOS? Sure. But fairly easy work, it confers no in-game advantages, and would, for once, let them put their money where their mouth is and prove that something they have said, "We support the roleplaying community and want to enhance their experience" is actually true. That's some PR they could surely use right now.

Slurg · February 2015

I'm not a role player but I fully support your request. It's uncomfortable to walk into a building to get my looting on and accidentally walk into the middle of a, um, "private" role play situation. Or every so often I'm just riding along through town without a care in the world and realize I've just run through a group of people who are trying to role play something that does not involve getting run down by my horse. it would be nice if groups could have a place to get away. Maybe someday you'll get your wish.

BBSooner · February 2015

I tend to agree. I've RPed on occasion (not in a specific guild but wouldn't be averse to joining one) and have thought "I can't wait for housing/I hope there are guild halls eventually" because not only would it be nice to not necessarily have others spamming spells around but sometimes other players are just plain distracting.

I'm not sure a true solution can be found without unnecessary resources put in though, a lot of times I see people RPing while questing, exploring, or simply in a large city like Mournehold or Wayrest - times when personal RP "instances" aren't very possible.

But yes, places with RPers, and their desires, in mind would be cool.

Spiritreaver_ESO · February 2015

Gave your OP an 'Agree', but wanted to say thanks for giving a reason for player housing(outside of holding items) i think the devs should really consider.

curlyqloub14_ESO · February 2015

Another suggestion for RP location: Cyrodiil. It may seem outlandish, but hey - it's open to anyone lvl 10+, and really, most of the zone is deserted most of the time. The quest hub areas are like little towns, with relatively low amount of traffic. There are also other various caves and buildings scattered throughout that are unoccupied 99% of the time.

I can certainly understand the OP's desire not to be trolled, and I would also point out that it can be rather frustrating for non-RP'ers to have to bear witness to RP events as well. This guy put it well:

Slurg wrote: »

It's uncomfortable to walk into a building to get my looting on and accidentally walk into the middle of a, um, "private" role play situation.

I'm not one who has ever trolled roleplayers - I try to just ignore it and move on, but I have encountered situations like the one described above on numerous occasions. While I respect people being able to enjoy the game how they choose, I'd rather not have to experience it as well...which is nearly impossible when seems that much of RP is done with emotes, which are viewable to everyone nearby.

I've often seen RP'ers doing their thing in central, public places like taverns - often within "earshot" of quest NPCs, and it's an extremely immersion-breaking experience to be seeing all the RP emotes in my chat window as I'm doing my quests. Regardless of whether the RP is "romantic" or not, I'm involved in the game story - I don't want to be involved in the RP story.

Of course, none of that is justification for people to troll the roleplayers, but yeah, it would be nice if they could do their roleplaying separately. I don't think instanced RP-only areas will ever happen, but there are definitely less populated areas you can go to act out your stories. Or perhaps a request for chat channels would be viable? An ability to make your own private chat channel to roleplay in, rather than having to use the public channels - I would actually really like this feature as well.

Cogo · February 2015

Well written. This Orc approves.

Roechacca · February 2015

Player neighborhoods like in LoTRO would be nice for you guys with the option to lock out non guild members from houses or even the neighbor hood if all the houses are owned by RP guilds .

Panda244 · February 2015

I don't know what faction you RP on, but on AD if you can clear some quest zones you can get semi-instanced areas where only people that completed the quests can instance-in. Letting you essentially be in your own instance, because no one really travels back to low-level zones much. In Malabal Tor there's a good place up North, something-Trading Post, Reapers March, Hadran's Caravan and Pa'alat is nice. As someone mentioned above, Cadwell's Silver and Gold areas are very empty of any players that don't speed through quests or grind skills via questing. So those are nice places, and to be frank, Pact and Daggerfall zones are better looking and sexier for RP than any Dominion zones. I much prefer Sentinel as an AD Rper, just make sure everyone has done the quest down at the docks and the city is bootyfull for RP. Just umm... Mind the sandstorms.

bosmern_ESO · February 2015

Sorry to break it to you, but ZoS Isn't going to make an entirely new server just so you can Roleplay.

MornaBaine · February 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Sorry to break it to you, but ZoS Isn't going to make an entirely new server just so you can Roleplay.

No one is asking them to. Instancing a location is not the same has creating a new server, not by a long shot. They already instance many things in this game so there's no real reason they can't do this.

Rev Rielle · February 2015

pullbcarepull wrote: »

What if those folks trolling you are just role-playing very rude people?

I'm sure it was said tongue-in-cheek, but you've actually touched on something that should be expected when RPing in most any place, but often isn't: Random elements. Unfortunately the free-form, immersive RPer that is able to aptly respond to such situations is an endangered species these days. Of course, the perceived problem in this thread is not that, but rather that there are basically only public places in which to RP these days, and that - just like real life - some situations warrant interaction in more private/controlled settings.

Panda244 wrote: »

I don't know what faction you RP on, but on AD if you can clear some quest zones you can get semi-instanced areas where only people that completed the quests can instance-in. Letting you essentially be in your own instance, because no one really travels back to low-level zones much. In Malabal Tor there's a good place up North, something-Trading Post, Reapers March, Hadran's Caravan and Pa'alat is nice. As someone mentioned above, Cadwell's Silver and Gold areas are very empty of any players that don't speed through quests or grind skills via questing. So those are nice places, and to be frank, Pact and Daggerfall zones are better looking and sexier for RP than any Dominion zones. I much prefer Sentinel as an AD Rper, just make sure everyone has done the quest down at the docks and the city is bootyfull for RP. Just umm... Mind the sandstorms.

This is a clever response I think, and I agree, some places are very very quiet. It's just a matter of finding them, and thinking a little outside the square. In general I've found that the higher the level the zone, the less chance there is of any 'griefing'.

And of course being a redguard I'm quite partial to Sentinel myself, but also Kozanset, I love it there too. And when those sandstorms come, they're just another stimulus for a bit of RP.

DisgracefulMind · February 2015

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Another suggestion for RP location: Cyrodiil.

Hahaha you may attempt to go there, but I will tell you all many scary stories about how I have come across roleplayer sessions and eliminated them all in Cyrodiil.

dat ap. ^.^

TheShadowScout · February 2015

Empty instances won't be too likely to appear in ESO. I can't think of any game who'd put aside server resources for just that...

Better chances for guildhalls and player apartments, methinks. Let's hope the current stuff they work on gets finished and put in the game soon, so they can get to start on that sooner...

Meanwhile... all a RP group can do is seek off the beaten track places, and pray noone trolls them (which all too often happens anyways). Going into cadwell's gold regions helps as stated, but often is not supportive for the RP plot in question... (makes you wish you could have another set of all the regions, everything scaled to V12 or so that unlocks for a character after they complete cadwells gold...)

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · February 2015

jluceyub17_ESO wrote: »

Have you considered moving your RP sessions to Cadwell's gold territory?

Because everyone playing has access to VR6+ areas?

I suspect only a minority of those playing do, many clearly gave up leveling once they hit the brick wall of VR mobs taking forever to kill and those that didn't leave the game rolled alts while waiting for ZOS to explain what happens in the brave new word post-VR.

Circuitous · February 2015

RP in group chat and you'll just look like people standing around. No one will care. It's great.

SantieClaws · February 2015

I back having some sort of area or instance for RP players. Problem is I find that they like gathering in taverns. That's a natural place for anyone to want to gather. Issue is you may get more than one group trying to RP and you may also get other players legitimately also wanting to use the tavern for events - our guild holds social events there. All players have a right to use this space however they wish - for serious RP, for dance parties whatever - no group has a greater claim on the space than the other.

Not everyone has the same image of how this world should be or what is right or wrong to do in it.

I think it would be a helpful start if they just gave us a lot more taverns to begin with. Some nice roadside inns out in the countryside but near enough to the first big city. Everyone tends to gather at the biggest tavern in the first city because that is one place player of all levels are sure to be able to get to.

Snowstrider · February 2015

Events,festivals,More activities,More customization and do something about the character stands still like he is made into stone when he talks.
Would be great for rp.

emanuele175b16_ESO · February 2015

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Or perhaps a request for chat channels would be viable? An ability to make your own private chat channel to roleplay in, rather than having to use the public channels - I would actually really like this feature as well.

Can be a first step and more easily obtainable than private instances.

MornaBaine · February 2015

emanuele175b16_ESO wrote: »

curlyqloub14_ESO wrote: »

Or perhaps a request for chat channels would be viable? An ability to make your own private chat channel to roleplay in, rather than having to use the public channels - I would actually really like this feature as well.

Can be a first step and more easily obtainable than private instances.

I would definitely like that feature especially as we could make chat channels specifically for RPers who are not in the same guild to communicate in. But /say and /emote are the roleplaying tools we've been given and I hate having to give them up simply because by using them we open ourselves up to being trolled. Obviously if people are roleplaying some activity or scenario that is secret or of a nature that SHOULD be private in real life, they xhould take that to whispers or a group chat. But otherwise people SHOULD be free to use the emote and say systems freely without being trolled. And since ZOS cannot monitor and punish trolls consistently then the onus really IS on them to provide another means for roleplayers to roleplay in peace. Instancing is the only way I can think of to do this.

mandrakethebard_ESO · February 2015

On the subject of creating a means by which large groups of people can voluntarily group away from trolls, I'm not quite sure how best to accomplish that (instanced areas of some sort, certainly) but I heartily endorse it.

pullbcarepull wrote: »

What if those folks trolling you are just role-playing very rude people?

As a long-time role-player (though I'm talking about old-fashioned role-playing, what you young-uns now like to refer to as "table-top") I can't resist the urge to make a comment on this comment. I've heard this excuse for years and frankly it's completely disingenuous.

A person who claims to be "role-playing" a rude person is, in fact, just an obnoxious person who is manufacturing a transparent excuse for being unpleasant. Happens all the time. Most (if not all) role-playing is about letting some aspect of your personality loose and playing with it that is normally kept locked up or simply left un-realized. Despite what they tell themselves, people don't role-play personalities that are completely unlike themselves, they instead role-play personalities that are a part of them, even if it is a miniscule part that they don't dare let out in public or at work.

A person who "role-plays" a character that likes to ruin other people's day is actually a person who *likes* to do that, but probably doesn't dare do so when not protected by the anonymity of the computer screen.

Anyway, that's my opinion. Carry on. I hope you manage to work something satisfactory out.

Lynnessa · February 2015

There is a downside to having private RP places, though. It makes the RPers even MORE insular by putting more than just a difference in playstyle between them and everyone else. And it guarantees that spontaneous "walk-up" RP could not happen.

Edit: This roleplayer can't support this request. I understand it, but I don't think it would work out well in practice.

MornaBaine · February 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

There is a downside to having private RP places, though. It makes the RPers even MORE insular by putting more than just a difference in playstyle between them and everyone else. And it guarantees that spontaneous "walk-up" RP could not happen.

Edit: This roleplayer can't support this request. I understand it, but I don't think it would work out well in practice.

It works out really well in games that already have this. Roleplayers still gather in public taverns nd they will roleplay out in the open world as well. But most MMOs have instances where you can take a group that is instanced to just that group. So there's a mix of possibilities and roleplayers use both. Here, there's no choice and you really have no ability to escape the trolls.

newtinmpls · February 2015

Thanks for answering the "what if they are RPing a rude person" so well.