The issues related to logging in to the European PC/Mac megaserver have been resolved at this time. If you continue to experience difficulties at login, please restart your client. Thank you for your patience!
We're unlikely to wait 3 years for player housing ZOS
-
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭Wolfsspinne wrote: »How do you weave housing for millions of players into the limits of Tamriel?
You can't just place 100,000 houses in the middle of nowhere, there has to be some kind of story to it.
In SWTOR that was not an issue at all, they did like: "Here you go three brand new planets and look they are filled with houses!"
In ESO that's a little bit harder, the Imperial City is like the biggest city of Tamriel but it has like 50 houses and that's it...
Did you ever play LOTRO? Many things are bad right now in that game, but the housing system was perfect.Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade2 -
eserras7b16_ESO✭✭✭✭you won't have to wait 3 years for player housing.
there will be no player housing.
they will barely have enough time to make playable content to keep the playerbase.
Not if Housing brings them a lot of money (wich it will)
No clue why they're not considering it.Eptackt - Argonian Templar
Belegrand - Redguard Nightblade2 -
Mercutio✭✭✭✭MornaBaine wrote: »te]
Apparently big enough to support the Crown Store....or at least that's what ZOS is banking on.
That's an interesting point, but I do not/ rarely RP and plan on buying cosmetics. Speaking purely anecdotally I doubt that many who purchase skins or pets will do so for primarily RP reasons. Could I be wrong? Sure. But in 16 years of being an MMORPG hobbyist I have never seen that correlation when other cash shops offered aesthetic upgrades.
Again, speaking from a personal bias, I imagine that many or most CS customers will be more like me: people who enjoy the game and don't mind spending a few bucks to make their character stand out or look cool.
The Secret World has an amazing cash shop and even a venue created especially for RP. While there was the odd event here and there such as a play, for the most part it was very underutilized.
I do enjoy RP and wish that segment all the best. I'm just not sure if there are enough of them to create a viable revenue stream.
The problem with arguing with a jackass is that they never stop braying.
*
#DwemerLife0 -
Enaijo✭✭✭Funny sidenote: one of the slogans Bethesda used to sell Hearthstone was "what would be an ES-game without housing?".
We know the answer: Elder Scrolls Online.1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Funny sidenote: one of the slogans Bethesda used to sell Hearthstone was "what would be an ES-game without housing?".
We know the answer: Elder Scrolls Online.
THIS is what I'm talkin' about. The fact that ZOS continues to outright IGNORE player expectations and desires on this subject, especially considering WHY we have those expectations and desires, is absolutely mind boggling to me.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Google knows nothing of a "Bethsoft Hearthstone", care to provide some clarity? Only game it knows about is of course Blizzard's of the same name,Funny sidenote: one of the slogans Bethesda used to sell Hearthstone was "what would be an ES-game without housing?".
We know the answer: Elder Scrolls Online.Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on February 4, 2015 1:44PM0 -
SantieClaws✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think I might be able to persuade them round to our point of view.
ZOS. Housing keeps people playing the game. People who keep playing the game will keep giving you money. People will spend money on things for their homes in Tamriel. People are very houseproud and like to have nice things. People will pay for those nice things.
You can make lots of money out of housing ZOS.
Housing.
Money.
Lots of.Shunrr's Skooma Oasis - The Movie. A housing video like no other ...
Find it here - https://youtube.com/user/wenxue2222
Clan Claws - now recruiting khajiit and like minded others for parties, fishing and other khajiit stuff. Contact this one for an invite.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
https://www.imperialtradingcompany.eu/2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's a pity they didn't IGNORE the demands for Justice instead.MornaBaine wrote: »Funny sidenote: one of the slogans Bethesda used to sell Hearthstone was "what would be an ES-game without housing?".
We know the answer: Elder Scrolls Online.
THIS is what I'm talkin' about. The fact that ZOS continues to outright IGNORE player expectations and desires on this subject, especially considering WHY we have those expectations and desires, is absolutely mind boggling to me.
1 -
Knootewoot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Housing can be done easily done in TESO. Just go the EQ2 way. I lived in the slums. Just a house with a door. I rented it and when i entered i ended up in my house instance. Other could use the same house and end up in their own instance. Decorate, invite players, dance nekkid.
Cities are small in TESO. Daggerfall is supposed to be huge but it's small. But still enough houses to make instanced for players.
I love player housing. But make the decoration like SWG or EQ2 or preferably Vanguard. Not as clumsy as SWTOR.٩(͡๏̯͡๏)۶
"I am a nightblade. Blending the disciplines of the stealthy agent and subtle wizard, I move unseen and undetected, foil locks and traps, and teleport to safety when threatened, or strike like a viper from ambush. The College of Illusion hides me and fuddles or pacifies my opponents. The College of Mysticism detects my object, reflects and dispels enemy spells, and makes good my escape. The key to a nightblade's success is avoidance, by spell or by stealth; with these skills, all things are possible."2 -
I really don't understand the fascination with housing. I personally prefer to be out in the world and not sitting in a house or some such stuff like that.1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd like a place to collect items I've gathered out while questing. So many quest rewards I would have kept if I had a place to keep them!Edited by Gidorick on February 4, 2015 3:05PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
SantieClaws✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It is about having a little part of the game world that belongs to you - that you can make your own. Then you can have guildmates come visit and show off your amazing chair arranging skills. You can also have dance parties, seasonal festival parties, dinner parties, guild meet ups etc without upsetting all the role players in the Rosy Lion .....Shunrr's Skooma Oasis - The Movie. A housing video like no other ...
Find it here - https://youtube.com/user/wenxue2222
Clan Claws - now recruiting khajiit and like minded others for parties, fishing and other khajiit stuff. Contact this one for an invite.
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
https://www.imperialtradingcompany.eu/4 -
Gix✭✭✭✭
I stand corrected, there are other ways of acquiring a house in TES games.rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.
Skyrim? Hearth DLC.
As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.
You obviously never played Oblivion or Skyrim.
Oblivion had player homes integral to the game in Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Imperial City, Leyawiin and Skingrad.
A purchasable player home in every city included in the base game.
In Skyrim there were several player homes.
Breezehome in Whiterun.
Hjerim in Windhelm.
Honeyside in Riften.
Proudspire Manor in Solitude.
Vlindrel Hall in Markarth.
All available in the base game, no DLC needed.
Morrowind you could own a home but either had to kill the owner or do certain quests.
But to say that homes were only in DLC for Oblivion and Skyrim shows you never played them and don't know how Google works or a quick search would have shown you how wrong you are without me needing to bother.
I guess we have different ideas of what "integral" means. Since you bothered answering to me, I'll do the same:necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
Not once had I felt the need to get a house in any of the games (that I "obviously" never played, shows how much you know about me) to get a complete experience. I don't want to be the guy who's stuck by the definition of a word in an argument, but I still stand by what I've said.
You feel player housing (which is a glorified storage device) for the sake of ownership is essential for the game to be complete, I don't and I would rather have (if at all) something more meaningful; like non-instanced housing and banks only holding gold. Let's leave it at that.1 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭
no, it will not.eserras7b16_ESO wrote: »
in comparison to the work they would have to do, its a lot easier to make money with boosters, mounts, pets and the like.
implementing housing would take a huge amount of time, so it would be either housing or an update with playable content. the crowd that really would spend money on housing is not as big as you might think, and it will get even smaller as soon as the consoles enter the game.
as i said, they will barely be able to keep the playerbase with playable content updates.
2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Pretty sure the crowd that wants housing is a lot bigger than the crowd to whom ZOS pandered with three group-or-die content updates while leaving eveyone else nothing new since release.the crowd that really would spend money on housing is not as big as you might think, and it will get even smaller as soon as the consoles enter the game.
So, if you comment about the population wanting housing is correct, it's even more true when relating to the small 'hardcore' who are now crying the loudest over 1.6 'nerfs'.
2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I stand corrected, there are other ways of acquiring a house in TES games.rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.
Skyrim? Hearth DLC.
As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.
You obviously never played Oblivion or Skyrim.
Oblivion had player homes integral to the game in Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Imperial City, Leyawiin and Skingrad.
A purchasable player home in every city included in the base game.
In Skyrim there were several player homes.
Breezehome in Whiterun.
Hjerim in Windhelm.
Honeyside in Riften.
Proudspire Manor in Solitude.
Vlindrel Hall in Markarth.
All available in the base game, no DLC needed.
Morrowind you could own a home but either had to kill the owner or do certain quests.
But to say that homes were only in DLC for Oblivion and Skyrim shows you never played them and don't know how Google works or a quick search would have shown you how wrong you are without me needing to bother.
I guess we have different ideas of what "integral" means. Since you bothered answering to me, I'll do the same:necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
Not once had I felt the need to get a house in any of the games (that I "obviously" never played, shows how much you know about me) to get a complete experience. I don't want to be the guy who's stuck by the definition of a word in an argument, but I still stand by what I've said.
You feel player housing (which is a glorified storage device) for the sake of ownership is essential for the game to be complete, I don't and I would rather have (if at all) something more meaningful; like non-instanced housing and banks only holding gold. Let's leave it at that.
I didn't bother to respond to you because it was kind of clear you didn't know what you were talking about. As has been amply demonstrated by others. And yes, player housing IS integral because it DOES need to exist for the game to be considered "complete" by those of us who have played and been fans of the previous TES games. Granted, to be "complete" it also needs Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood and a few other things as well. None of which means it DOESN'T need housing. It does.Edited by MornaBaine on February 4, 2015 4:57PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
I stand corrected, there are other ways of acquiring a house in TES games.rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.
Skyrim? Hearth DLC.
As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.
You obviously never played Oblivion or Skyrim.
Oblivion had player homes integral to the game in Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Imperial City, Leyawiin and Skingrad.
A purchasable player home in every city included in the base game.
In Skyrim there were several player homes.
Breezehome in Whiterun.
Hjerim in Windhelm.
Honeyside in Riften.
Proudspire Manor in Solitude.
Vlindrel Hall in Markarth.
All available in the base game, no DLC needed.
Morrowind you could own a home but either had to kill the owner or do certain quests.
But to say that homes were only in DLC for Oblivion and Skyrim shows you never played them and don't know how Google works or a quick search would have shown you how wrong you are without me needing to bother.
I guess we have different ideas of what "integral" means. Since you bothered answering to me, I'll do the same:necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
Not once had I felt the need to get a house in any of the games (that I "obviously" never played, shows how much you know about me) to get a complete experience. I don't want to be the guy who's stuck by the definition of a word in an argument, but I still stand by what I've said.
You feel player housing (which is a glorified storage device) for the sake of ownership is essential for the game to be complete, I don't and I would rather have (if at all) something more meaningful; like non-instanced housing and banks only holding gold. Let's leave it at that.
The houses were integral, they were important for storing your gear, which was useful.
Also one house in each game had a quest attached to it.
In Oblivion you had to resurrect a lich so you could get rid of his influencefrom his house (Anvil I think).
In Skyrim one of the houses (Windhelm) had a person trying to resurrect his sister by killing people and using their bodyparts. (actually this was two quests, and you had to imprison an innocent man, before killing the guilty party).
If it has a quest attached it's integral to the game.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Gix✭✭✭✭
But that's just an opinion stated as a fact. Just because YOU believe it's necessary or that others also agree, it doesn't make it more true. The mere idea that I can play the entire game without even being conscious of the feature should speak enough on how "integral" it really is.MornaBaine wrote: »
I stand corrected, there are other ways of acquiring a house in TES games.rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.
Skyrim? Hearth DLC.
As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.
You obviously never played Oblivion or Skyrim.
Oblivion had player homes integral to the game in Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Imperial City, Leyawiin and Skingrad.
A purchasable player home in every city included in the base game.
In Skyrim there were several player homes.
Breezehome in Whiterun.
Hjerim in Windhelm.
Honeyside in Riften.
Proudspire Manor in Solitude.
Vlindrel Hall in Markarth.
All available in the base game, no DLC needed.
Morrowind you could own a home but either had to kill the owner or do certain quests.
But to say that homes were only in DLC for Oblivion and Skyrim shows you never played them and don't know how Google works or a quick search would have shown you how wrong you are without me needing to bother.
I guess we have different ideas of what "integral" means. Since you bothered answering to me, I'll do the same:necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
Not once had I felt the need to get a house in any of the games (that I "obviously" never played, shows how much you know about me) to get a complete experience. I don't want to be the guy who's stuck by the definition of a word in an argument, but I still stand by what I've said.
You feel player housing (which is a glorified storage device) for the sake of ownership is essential for the game to be complete, I don't and I would rather have (if at all) something more meaningful; like non-instanced housing and banks only holding gold. Let's leave it at that.
I didn't bother to respond to you because it was kind of clear you didn't know what you were talking about. As has been amply demonstrated by others. And yes, player housing IS integral because it DOES need to exist for the game to be considered "complete" by those of us who have played and been fans of the previous TES games. Granted, to be "complete" it also needs Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood and a few other things as well. None of which means it DOESN'T need housing. It does.
Hence why I asked that you enlightened me on the subject. Geez.
It's important to you and others, I get it... but it isn't necessary and you're talking like the game can't be played and enjoyed without it. That's my main point.
Don't try to sell it like your perspective is the only perspective; because that is truly not the case despite how you feel about the subject and/or me.
Also, you're basically saying that, if you don't believe that housing is required, then you're no TES fan. What a ridiculous notion.2 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I like how someone asked about housing for millions of players. This game doesnt have millions of players.2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But that's just an opinion stated as a fact. Just because YOU believe it's necessary or that others also agree, it doesn't make it more true. The mere idea that I can play the entire game without even being conscious of the feature should speak enough on how "integral" it really is.MornaBaine wrote: »
I stand corrected, there are other ways of acquiring a house in TES games.rawne1980b16_ESO wrote: »Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.
Skyrim? Hearth DLC.
As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.
You obviously never played Oblivion or Skyrim.
Oblivion had player homes integral to the game in Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Imperial City, Leyawiin and Skingrad.
A purchasable player home in every city included in the base game.
In Skyrim there were several player homes.
Breezehome in Whiterun.
Hjerim in Windhelm.
Honeyside in Riften.
Proudspire Manor in Solitude.
Vlindrel Hall in Markarth.
All available in the base game, no DLC needed.
Morrowind you could own a home but either had to kill the owner or do certain quests.
But to say that homes were only in DLC for Oblivion and Skyrim shows you never played them and don't know how Google works or a quick search would have shown you how wrong you are without me needing to bother.
I guess we have different ideas of what "integral" means. Since you bothered answering to me, I'll do the same:necessary to make a whole complete; essential or fundamental.
Not once had I felt the need to get a house in any of the games (that I "obviously" never played, shows how much you know about me) to get a complete experience. I don't want to be the guy who's stuck by the definition of a word in an argument, but I still stand by what I've said.
You feel player housing (which is a glorified storage device) for the sake of ownership is essential for the game to be complete, I don't and I would rather have (if at all) something more meaningful; like non-instanced housing and banks only holding gold. Let's leave it at that.
I didn't bother to respond to you because it was kind of clear you didn't know what you were talking about. As has been amply demonstrated by others. And yes, player housing IS integral because it DOES need to exist for the game to be considered "complete" by those of us who have played and been fans of the previous TES games. Granted, to be "complete" it also needs Thieves Guild, Dark Brotherhood and a few other things as well. None of which means it DOESN'T need housing. It does.
Hence why I asked that you enlightened me on the subject. Geez.
It's important to you and others, I get it... but it isn't necessary and you're talking like the game can't be played and enjoyed without it. That's my main point.
Don't try to sell it like your perspective is the only perspective; because that is truly not the case despite how you feel about the subject and/or me.
Also, you're basically saying that, if you don't believe that housing is required, then you're no TES fan. What a ridiculous notion.
Go back and read my OP. Never did I say the game can't be played without it. I said roleplayers were unlikely to continue to do so for the next 2 years...or even longer. But it DOES need it to be complete, as in, comparable to the games upon which it was based. Your ignorance of a core feature is not an argument in favor of it being unimportant. That, too, is just an opinion.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos actually answered housing in april 2014. They said it was not planned for ESO BUT now (2014) they added it to their development. Matt Firor stated that it will take about 2 years before they are finished because they want to do it right.
He was correct that it takes time to do it right BUT, he also answered on the Reddit AMA that they are not working on housing.
Which is it! ;-(Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zos actually answered housing in april 2014. They said it was not planned for ESO BUT now (2014) they added it to their development. Matt Firor stated that it will take about 2 years before they are finished because they want to do it right.
He was correct that it takes time to do it right BUT, he also answered on the Reddit AMA that they are not working on housing.
Which is it! ;-(
I'd love to know. I'd love it even more if you'd make a post asking that with links to both "answers." Pretty please?PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!0 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zos actually answered housing in april 2014. They said it was not planned for ESO BUT now (2014) they added it to their development. Matt Firor stated that it will take about 2 years before they are finished because they want to do it right.
He was correct that it takes time to do it right BUT, he also answered on the Reddit AMA that they are not working on housing.
Which is it! ;-(
It means, dont hold your breath for it. If they get done with their other projects, they may have time to work on it. And from the last ESO Live, other projects might even include another Daedric Lord to fight. But, dont expect anything firm on a timeframe on anything right now. Taking two years does not mean they started on it that day. It may mean, five years from now, they will START.Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.0 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭
My comment is true, and you are right about the small "hardcore" group.fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
Pretty sure the crowd that wants housing is a lot bigger than the crowd to whom ZOS pandered with three group-or-die content updates while leaving eveyone else nothing new since release.the crowd that really would spend money on housing is not as big as you might think, and it will get even smaller as soon as the consoles enter the game.
So, if you comment about the population wanting housing is correct, it's even more true when relating to the small 'hardcore' who are now crying the loudest over 1.6 'nerfs'.
Both groups are quite small in comparison to the overall amount of players.
never judge the real situation because of forum posts, the amount of people in the forum is very, very small indeed and represent in no way what the majority of people want or need.
0 -
nimander99✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I didn't take the time to read other responses but I'm sure many people have pointed out the SWTOR's precursor was Galaxies which is pretty much the preeminent 'sandbox' experience... so yeah anyhooser.I AM UPDATING MY PRIVACY POLICY
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
∽∽∽ 2 years of Elder Scrolls Online ∼∼∼
"Give us money" = Box sales & monthly sub fees,
"moar!" = £10 palomino horse,
"MOAR!" = Switch to B2P, launch cash shop,
"MOAR!!" = Charge for DLC that subs had already paid for,
"MOAR!!!" = Experience scrolls and riding lessons,
"MOARR!!!" = Vampire/werewolf bites,
"MOAARRR!!!" = CS exclusive motifs,
"MOOAARRR!!!" = Crown crates,
"MOOOAAARRR!!!" = 'Chapter's' bought separately from ESO+,
"MOOOOAAAARRRR!!!!" = ???
Male, Dunmer, VR16, Templar, Aldmeri Dominion, Master Crafter & all Traits, CP4500 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭nimander99 wrote: »I didn't take the time to read other responses but I'm sure many people have pointed out the SWTOR's precursor was Galaxies which is pretty much the preeminent 'sandbox' experience... so yeah anyhooser.
Are you saying that SWTOR was somehow based on or made by the same people who made SWG? Or is even the same type of MMO? I just dont get how SWG has anything at all to do with SWTOR. They could not be any more different the only thing in common is the IP.1 -
Lorkhan✭✭✭✭✭housing? I have no interest.... just sayingEdited by Lorkhan on February 4, 2015 7:14PM0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I personally have no experience with Area and Daggerfall but:
Morrowind? Didn't you had to murder the previous owner to unofficially "own" the place?
Oblivion? Mage Tower, Thieve's Den and Vile Lair were DLCs.
Skyrim? Hearth DLC.
As far as I know, no, player housing has never been an integral feature.
Daggerfall had it. You browsed through available houses at the city's bank and they were really expensive. I think you could even buy a boat and use it as a house if you wanted. Morrowind had the strongholds or you could murder someone and take theirs. Personally I always used the upper floor of the Caldera tavern until my stronghold was complete.
0 -
Audigy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@MornaBaine Hey there,
long time no hear! I thought you left the game with the F2P announcement
Good to see you still around!
I don't want to spoil the party, but I doubt housing is even in the works right now. Their main focus is the Tamriel unlimited system with the shop, they even stopped working on the Spell Weaving that was already very far in development. Even if they would somehow start working on housing, it could take years.
If you don't mind paying real money for housing, Archeage might be an interesting game for you. You can place a house everywhere in the world, run a shop and harvest stuff from your own farm.
Don't put too much hope into ESO, I just don't see housing happening any time soon.3 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Don't put too much hope into ESO, I just don't see housing happening any time soon.
*sigh*
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0