Legendary Mage v14 Sorcerer Duels - Arena Guild EU

joshisanonymous · January 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Yes, I have tried add-ons in the past and it's just my personal preference to rely on my visual ques and minimalistic interface. It's kinda easier for me to play like this than have all kinds of numbers floating around my screen (typical mmo interface), I'm more of an RPG fan.

I, for one, am thrilled that I didn't have to try to watch the action through a barrage of numbers and pop-ups and windows. I really can't stand that old MMO style interface anymore and I have a hard time understanding how anyone manages to play that way when all the info you really need is aggregated in visual cues that allow you to center your attention on the action on screen instead of the action on screen and all the numbers and stats floating everywhere else.

Minsc · January 2015

Extra props for not having to use pots , says a lot about how you manage your resources

Lhorion · January 2015

Legendary Mage can deal with scale-DKs. You cannot have scales 100% of the time and he is waiting for those moments you have no scales. He controls your magica management py porting through you so; If you want to do damage and spam scales you need more magica than you have.
My experiences against him is: Scales just in important moments, not always. All I want so say is: Usually Legendary Mage kills those DKs.

synnerman · January 2015

Good video and a good thread, nice to see decent players sharing their knowledge instead of being all secretive.

LegendaryMage · January 2015

@joshisanonymous totally agree, I tried with add-ons in the past, I just couldn't get used to it for some reason, it's just not the same game anymore.

@Minsc Thank you.

I'll use them if I'm fighting serious matches vs top NBs, otherwise most duelers do not seem to be much concerned if we go without them. It's all the same to me as long as I know upfront what we're gonna do.

@synnerman I don't see a reason why anyone would want to keep anything a secret, 80% of the stuff is quite 'seeable' in fights anyway. The people who think they've found something revolutionary need to chill out a bit and sit back, it's just a matter of time until someone else comes and shows you how wrong you are.

Also, some people watching the matches I record might not realize, that some of these guys are as good as it gets in 1v1.

People like EisenFaust, Blazemaster, Nathaerizh, Sypher, Blobsky, MagickaDeHex, Lorion, Dusk/Donnie, Derra, Karras, Elo'Dryel (toreax), Shini, and some others, I can't beat anyone better than them as there simply isn't anyone else better in game. I can't record anything better than that in terms of 1v1 skill.

LegendaryMage · January 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

So timing is your answer for full reflect dk's? What if it's up the entire fight, do you just bolt around twisting your thumbs?
If you want to be ready to fight anyone in Cyrodiil you must use sword and board reflect because of how many dk's are on the battlefield, NA atleast. Now I dont really duel head to head, and the person above me that said people have a build to fight all opponents is not true, they swap out skills depending on the class they are fighting.
I like the on the fly, ready to fight anyone in any situation on the battlefield, and they don't have time to start swapping out abilities just to beat me. Yes your build is effective against everything that doest use RS. But RS is everywhere and 1.6 won't change that meta for 1v1's.

Yes my fellow sorcerer, timing is so underrated you wouldn't believe it. Timing is what kills my DK opponents, not s/b.

But don't get me wrong, I played s/b since and for... Ah, who can remember...

ToRelax · January 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

So timing is your answer for full reflect dk's? What if it's up the entire fight, do you just bolt around twisting your thumbs?
If you want to be ready to fight anyone in Cyrodiil you must use sword and board reflect because of how many dk's are on the battlefield, NA atleast. Now I dont really duel head to head, and the person above me that said people have a build to fight all opponents is not true, they swap out skills depending on the class they are fighting.
I like the on the fly, ready to fight anyone in any situation on the battlefield, and they don't have time to start swapping out abilities just to beat me. Yes your build is effective against everything that doest use RS. But RS is everywhere and 1.6 won't change that meta for 1v1's.

Yes my fellow sorcerer, timing is so underrated you wouldn't believe it. Timing is what kills my DK opponents, not s/b.

But don't get me wrong, I played s/b since and for... Ah, who can remember...

Me. Somehow it's since around that time I am practically never winning a duel, after all

.

Maulkin · February 2015

It's scary how "1.6-ready" this build already is. Not talking specifically about duels either....

1. You're gonna need a destro to generate ult off light attacks from un-shielded opponents. Or else you'll have to swap to resto every 8"
2. You're gonna need Immovable more than ever, cause Streak now joins Fear in the club of unblockable CCs
3. You can't block as much any more so you're better off tanking damage with your shields and using your stam for Immovable to keep you standing
4. Shield-stacking is even more important than before it seems

Just swap Power Surge for Structured Entropy and you're ready to go.

Soulac · February 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

So timing is your answer for full reflect dk's? What if it's up the entire fight, do you just bolt around twisting your thumbs?
If you want to be ready to fight anyone in Cyrodiil you must use sword and board reflect because of how many dk's are on the battlefield, NA atleast. Now I dont really duel head to head, and the person above me that said people have a build to fight all opponents is not true, they swap out skills depending on the class they are fighting.
I like the on the fly, ready to fight anyone in any situation on the battlefield, and they don't have time to start swapping out abilities just to beat me. Yes your build is effective against everything that doest use RS. But RS is everywhere and 1.6 won't change that meta for 1v1's.

Yes my fellow sorcerer, timing is so underrated you wouldn't believe it. Timing is what kills my DK opponents, not s/b.

But don't get me wrong, I played s/b since and for... Ah, who can remember...

I remember your first build with pets

Badass, no one wanted to fight you, so you switched the build to S&B.

Derra · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think it involves any skill at all to design counter builds given the time we are into the game. People know what skills do by now.
If your build is at a significant disadvantage against sth. you built a *** build imho

Hhmm, I kindly disagree and I'll offer an obvious example.

Is Mage's build ***, because he's at a distinct disadvantage to a DK Destro build? Cause in my eyes it certainly is, he'll need to play and time his attacks much much better to beat somebody who could be an inferior player with a simple rotation: Immovable, Scales, Crushy x 3 . I don't think so, it's not crap build.

Working out counter builds is half the fun for me. I appreciate others might feel differently.

Well to be honest: I don´t like mages build and would not play it against a DK personally. I can see it working for the time staff heavies are uninterruptable. After that - not really.
If it works for him in duels against DKs thats fine. I personally believe this is due to the fact that dks are no longer used to play with 100% scale uptime in duels because the meta shifted to s&b some time ago. A crushing shock build in duels is simply unusual atm (in theory a good dk should be able to crush this).

Maulkin · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think it involves any skill at all to design counter builds given the time we are into the game. People know what skills do by now.
If your build is at a significant disadvantage against sth. you built a *** build imho

Hhmm, I kindly disagree and I'll offer an obvious example.

Is Mage's build ***, because he's at a distinct disadvantage to a DK Destro build? Cause in my eyes it certainly is, he'll need to play and time his attacks much much better to beat somebody who could be an inferior player with a simple rotation: Immovable, Scales, Crushy x 3 . I don't think so, it's not crap build.

Working out counter builds is half the fun for me. I appreciate others might feel differently.

Well to be honest: I don´t like mages build and would not play it against a DK personally. I can see it working for the time staff heavies are uninterruptable. After that - not really.
If it works for him in duels against DKs thats fine. I personally believe this is due to the fact that dks are no longer used to play with 100% scale uptime in duels because the meta shifted to s&b some time ago. A crushing shock build in duels is simply unusual atm (in theory a good dk should be able to crush this).

But that's my point...

- A Defensive Posture + Daedric Mines build is the counter build to the standard Reflective Scales, S&B DKs.

- The above Reflective Scales/Immovable + Crushing Shock build is the counter-build to a S&B Reflect build, because they can't live with the damage output of Crushing Shock.

- A BoL build is a counter build to any Crushing Shock build...

etc etc etc

If you think about it every build has a counter build that it performs badly against. If you're a superior player you might still win, but if you play against players of the same level you'll lose more than you win. Which is to say that your build is at a disadvantage

Hence, I can't accept your argument that:

Derra wrote: »

If your build is at a significant disadvantage against sth. you built a *** build imho .

By your argument, every build is a crappy build

Derra · February 2015

Actually crushing shock builds / scales builds are not the counter to s&b. You can be pretty well roundet with ball lightning there (I don´t play it because its a million times worse than streak in grp play).
Anyway s&b(sorc) won´t kill any serious dueler atm.

Most builds are crappy indeed.
When talking about a significant disadvantage i was not talking about duels but open pvp. Ofc you can counter every build, it is just not practical in everyday open pvp because you will have to slot niche abilities.
I like well rounded builds that can put up a fight in almost every circumstance.

Edit: To be clearer what i mean when talking about crappy builds: Take a magica s&b DK thats fighting a 2h templar with cinderstorm but without reflective scales. It´s a pure dueling build that nobody will leave a keep with. Therefor in my opinion it serves no purpose but dueling which (in my absolute personal subjective opinion) makes it a crappy build

.
But thats because i don´t see dueling as something with enough standalone entertainment value . It´s just a tool to optimise my build to get better on the battlefield.

Sypher · February 2015

Derra wrote: »

Actually crushing shock builds / scales builds are not the counter to s&b. You can be pretty well roundet with ball lightning there (I don´t play it because its a million times worse than streak in grp play).
Anyway s&b(sorc) won´t kill any serious dueler atm.

Most builds are crappy indeed.
When talking about a significant disadvantage i was not talking about duels but open pvp. Ofc you can counter every build, it is just not practical in everyday open pvp because you will have to slot niche abilities.
I like well rounded builds that can put up a fight in almost every circumstance.

Edit: To be clearer what i mean when talking about crappy builds: Take a magica s&b DK thats fighting a 2h templar with cinderstorm but without reflective scales. It´s a pure dueling build that nobody will leave a keep with. Therefor in my opinion it serves no purpose but dueling which (in my absolute personal subjective opinion) makes it a crappy build .
But thats because i don´t see dueling as something with enough standalone entertainment value . It´s just a tool to optimise my build to get better on the battlefield.

This is why future legend dueling tournaments will require players to submit their 10 abilities prior to the tournament.

This should force duelers to have well rounded builds instead of just putting up counter builds right before a fight against other builds.

Maulkin · February 2015

I was talking from a duelling standpoint, so I guess that clears the confusion.

For open world PvP, you use whatever suits your purposes ofc. If you run as part of a 50-man train with 10 healers for example, you probably don't even need Scales on your bar along with single target abilities.

When you play solo, you tend to use the most survivable build you have. The horse simulator can be very unforgiving otherwise

Derra · February 2015

Sypher wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Actually crushing shock builds / scales builds are not the counter to s&b. You can be pretty well roundet with ball lightning there (I don´t play it because its a million times worse than streak in grp play).
Anyway s&b(sorc) won´t kill any serious dueler atm.

Most builds are crappy indeed.
When talking about a significant disadvantage i was not talking about duels but open pvp. Ofc you can counter every build, it is just not practical in everyday open pvp because you will have to slot niche abilities.
I like well rounded builds that can put up a fight in almost every circumstance.

Edit: To be clearer what i mean when talking about crappy builds: Take a magica s&b DK thats fighting a 2h templar with cinderstorm but without reflective scales. It´s a pure dueling build that nobody will leave a keep with. Therefor in my opinion it serves no purpose but dueling which (in my absolute personal subjective opinion) makes it a crappy build .
But thats because i don´t see dueling as something with enough standalone entertainment value . It´s just a tool to optimise my build to get better on the battlefield.

Derra wrote: »

Actually crushing shock builds / scales builds are not the counter to s&b. You can be pretty well roundet with ball lightning there (I don´t play it because its a million times worse than streak in grp play).
Anyway s&b(sorc) won´t kill any serious dueler atm.

Most builds are crappy indeed.
When talking about a significant disadvantage i was not talking about duels but open pvp. Ofc you can counter every build, it is just not practical in everyday open pvp because you will have to slot niche abilities.
I like well rounded builds that can put up a fight in almost every circumstance.

Edit: To be clearer what i mean when talking about crappy builds: Take a magica s&b DK thats fighting a 2h templar with cinderstorm but without reflective scales. It´s a pure dueling build that nobody will leave a keep with. Therefor in my opinion it serves no purpose but dueling which (in my absolute personal subjective opinion) makes it a crappy build .
But thats because i don´t see dueling as something with enough standalone entertainment value . It´s just a tool to optimise my build to get better on the battlefield.

This is why future legend dueling tournaments will require players to submit their 10 abilities prior to the tournament.

This should force duelers to have well rounded builds instead of just putting up counter builds right before a fight against other builds.

I want to reroll to NA so much because of this statement. In fact i´m going to make a toon just to watch that

(if you allow for spectators).

Ezareth · February 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

@mike.gaziotisb16 Sure buddy, always have time for you! Yeah, I'm glad you had fun, it was fun for me theorycrafting it as well.

To answer in order:

1) That's what happens, yes. S/B sorcs are not really a problem for me, some take longer to take down depending on how much stamina they have or regen/block cost reductions etc.

2) Yes, it cancels it entirely. Ball of light is interesting, I actually don't have problems fighting these types of sorcs (of course, I could get that morph too if I wanted to make their lives harder).

The usual problem (for them) is that most sorcs will move too far away from it. They need to stay very close to it and make it so that I'm not between the ball of light and the sorc. I usually streak with them, follow them and position myself to hopefully be able to hit them even if this is up. Doesn't work always (sometimes I hit the light behind me somehow) and prolongs fights a bit, but certainly doable as mistakes start to creep in.

As for DKs, maybe @Lhorion or Dusk could give their input, I'm pretty much doing the same that I've done in my fight with Rossh in the video for example.

Sometimes when I'm not paying attention I burn myself quite a bit with it (high dmg + 30% more damage on reflect is painful as you can imagine) but good timing sorts this out 99% of the time. If I mess up, I fight a harder fight and pay the price.

Yes, they could use immovable with scales and resto heavy attacks but then blocking is pointless or they will run out of stamina (magicka DKs) and they won't be able to kill me as I will also recharge magicka at the same time so we can go on forever like that. Immovable is not cheap on magicka builds and blocking is just too good to miss out for DKs.

3) Rapid regen is reliable, when I use degeneration I have to make sure they have no shields and it doesn't proc with crushing shock. If it did, I'd use it for sure and that would be a sick combo with quick syphon. But it would be total balance disaster so I hope they don't make it work with crushing shock. Nobody would be able to deal with that kind of damage and self heal at the same time.

Due to Ball of Lightning I just don't find it possible to die to another Sorc if I'm not playing too aggressively. A sorc just really doesn't have enough damage at their disposal unless they're a 2-hand sorc which is a different scenario altogether.

The best way I find to nullify a streak sorc is to keep your distance from them which entirely negates the primary benefit of streak (the aoe damage and disorient range) versus ball of lightning while leaving the benefits of ball of lightning in tact. If it comes down to a race with them trying to close the distance to I always win because there isn't a sorc in the game who has more balls than I do (=

The downside is my particular build is not particular bursty and fighting another good sorc turns into a 30-40 minute affair which just isn't fun or revealing of anything.

Ezareth · February 2015

Sypher wrote: »

This is why future legend dueling tournaments will require players to submit their 10 abilities prior to the tournament.

This should force duelers to have well rounded builds instead of just putting up counter builds right before a fight against other builds.

Don't you mean 15 abilities? Does no one use Power Overload? ) =

Sypher · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

This is why future legend dueling tournaments will require players to submit their 10 abilities prior to the tournament.

This should force duelers to have well rounded builds instead of just putting up counter builds right before a fight against other builds.

Don't you mean 15 abilities? Does no one use Power Overload? ) =

If my sorc was leveled I would use power overload. (Still a non-vet)

Some people just don't appreciate their blessings.

LegendaryMage · February 2015

I will be on the pts when the maintenance is over. Hopefully you, @Araxleon, @Sypher and some others will come too. I'd love to do more fights with you guys, usually it's very empty on the pts.

I know you'll be on templates and maybe even lack some leveled skills if that book doesn't work, so no worries about it, just some casual dueling for fun and testing.

As for you and me, if the fight goes over 15 or so minutes between two sorcs (with no pots for example), we'll break it up.

LegendaryMage · February 2015

Sypher wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

Sypher wrote: »

This is why future legend dueling tournaments will require players to submit their 10 abilities prior to the tournament.

This should force duelers to have well rounded builds instead of just putting up counter builds right before a fight against other builds.

Don't you mean 15 abilities? Does no one use Power Overload? ) =

If my sorc was leveled I would use power overload. (Still a non-vet)

Some people just don't appreciate their blessings.

I tried this when I was fighting one sorcerer, very bad idea in high paced duels if you don't time it right.

I imagine it's doable, but it has to be timed perfectly depending on which types of skills you keep on the extra bar (I tended to use mostly defensive/buff types).

Sypher · February 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I will be on the pts when the maintenance is over. Hopefully you, @Araxleon, @Sypher and some others will come too. I'd love to do more fights with you guys, usually it's very empty on the pts.

I know you'll be on templates and maybe even lack some leveled skills if that book doesn't work, so no worries about it, just some casual dueling for fun and testing.

As for you and me, if the fight goes over 15 or so minutes between two sorcs (with no pots for example), we'll break it up.

I'll be home in a little over an hour. Feel free to idle in Legend TS so I can ping you when I'm ready.

I'm hoping NA still has access to our templates. ZOS neeeeds to implement fully leveled templates with all passives/skills morphed/leveled. They also need to implement a way for us to spawn items for testing purposes that would be hard to obtain. (Trial gear, warlock, etc)

If they did this I would love testing/theory crafting on pts. Instead of guessing and checking.

Derra · February 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I will be on the pts when the maintenance is over. Hopefully you, @Araxleon, @Sypher and some others will come too. I'd love to do more fights with you guys, usually it's very empty on the pts.

I know you'll be on templates and maybe even lack some leveled skills if that book doesn't work, so no worries about it, just some casual dueling for fun and testing.

As for you and me, if the fight goes over 15 or so minutes between two sorcs (with no pots for example), we'll break it up.

I´ll be joining you mage. Got crafting and upgrade mats stacked aswell as all magica based sets you´re going to find :P

Maulkin · February 2015

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The best way I find to nullify a streak sorc is to keep your distance from them which entirely negates the primary benefit of streak (the aoe damage and disorient range) versus ball of lightning while leaving the benefits of ball of lightning in tact. If it comes down to a race with them trying to close the distance to I always win because there isn't a sorc in the game who has more balls than I do (=

Lol!

Metalxead has (to use his words) a "funky" stamina Ninja Sorc with bow that can be pretty tricky to play against for cloth+stick BoL sorcs. Since Snipe is not absorbed by BoL. His high stamina and cost reduction allows good upkeep of Immovable which is a decent counter against streak and completely negates any effect the opponents BoL might have. You might as well not use BoL for that fight if that's the morph you have.

EDIT: Obviously in open world combat you just blink away as he cannot pay the increasing cost of BE, but in duels it's a different matter altogether.

Also I'm guessing pets will now be the counter-build to the BoL caster build. Especially when the summoner has BoL himself.

Ezareth · February 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

ezareth_ESO wrote: »

The best way I find to nullify a streak sorc is to keep your distance from them which entirely negates the primary benefit of streak (the aoe damage and disorient range) versus ball of lightning while leaving the benefits of ball of lightning in tact. If it comes down to a race with them trying to close the distance to I always win because there isn't a sorc in the game who has more balls than I do (=

Lol!

Metalxead has (to use his words) a "funky" stamina Ninja Sorc with bow that can be pretty tricky to play against for cloth+stick BoL sorcs. Since Snipe is not absorbed by BoL. His high stamina and cost reduction allows good upkeep of Immovable which is a decent counter against streak and completely negates any effect the opponents BoL might have. You might as well not use BoL for that fight if that's the morph you have.

EDIT: Obviously in open world combat you just blink away as he cannot pay the increasing cost of BE, but in duels it's a different matter altogether.

Also I'm guessing pets will now be the counter-build to the BoL caster build. Especially when the summoner has BoL himself.

This is why I typically don't duel. For some reason I feel "Honor bound" to stay in the "Dueling area" and thus my mobility and effectiveness is compromised. In true PvP I would use my mobility to stay somewhere between max distance and streak range of a sorc I was fighting. Bow sorcs can be an odd matchup but bows are *one* of the chief reasons I still use a S&B in my PvP offbar.

I may have missed something about pets but what about them other than being a source of bonus ultimate generation to me is so effective against BoL? I saw a few Pet sorcs in PTS and they were all pretty laughable. I love Daedra!

LegendaryMage · February 2015

I run a maximum spell cost reduction build, I doubt you can escape from me in open world pvp unless you got archmage + seducer on s/b bar.

Ezareth · February 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I run a maximum spell cost reduction build, I doubt you can escape from me in open world pvp unless you got archmage + seducer on s/b bar.

You'd be surprised at some things ( =

LegendaryMage · February 2015

I forgot 160 magicka regen too.

ToRelax · February 2015

Give up @LegendaryMage , BoL Sorcs ill just runt to a keep of theirs if they can't escape otherwise...

Wait... :disagree:

Ezareth · February 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

I forgot 160 magicka regen too.

2500 Panaceas of Health + Dark Exchange ( =

To get 160 are you using jewelry enchants with MR instead of cost reduction?

LegendaryMage · February 2015

Dark exchange can help you a lot when running away, but you have to be careful not to get stunned for the first 2 seconds or you'll have to breakfree and your stamina pool will be gone (I assume you got less than 1.6K and breakfree isn't cheap at all).

But yeah, you could maybe escape with dark exchange and pots if you use them smartly and I don't get to interrupt it early on. I'm assuming I'd have pots slotted too of course.

No, I use all 3 spell cost reduce glyphs and get my regen from gear + atronach mundus. I could pump up regen to almost 200 if I wanted to, but my build benefits more from constant casting, aka spamming.