Why do guest players receive buffs that home players do not?

eudae · June 2014

cigarsmoker wrote: »

You get whatever buffs are in your home campaign, they carry over into a guest campaign.

That's the mechanics of it, simple as that.

And why does this mechanic exist?

Auldjohn · July 2014

How about mega PvP for future expansion: A Megabattle of large groups of Emperors vs other large large groups of Emperors?

A seed idea...

Breea · July 2014

eudae wrote: »

cigarsmoker wrote: »

You get whatever buffs are in your home campaign, they carry over into a guest campaign.

That's the mechanics of it, simple as that.

And why does this mechanic exist?

Why do PVE buffs work in PVP? Because you earned them somehow. If the map on your current campaign looks exactly the same as the one you're guesting on then the buffs will be the same. If you own the whole map on your campaign because you fought for two days and got everything and then decided to take a little break and a guildie asked for your help is it fair to you that the buffs you worked hard to earn disappear?

The opposite is true, if you worked on a guest campaign and helped guildies get the whole map should you get the buffs for that on your home campaign? Where is the line? It makes it simple, you get the buffs from your home campaign. If you don't like how things are going on that campaign, switch campaigns and get the buffs from a different campaign. Problem solved.

nukeyoo · July 2014

Makes sense to me that if you "worked" so hard to get your buffs on your home campaign that you should be happy to get them on your home campaign. If a guildie asks for your help on a different campaign and you guest there then you should receive the buffs from the guest campaign; the same buffs your guildie has.

You're guesting there because you want to help them not because you have the advantage of buffs from your home campaign. They're asking for your help not for your buffs help.

And if you do "work hard" on the guest campaign then you should get that campaigns buffs while your on it. When you go back to your home campaign you get all the current buffs from your home campaign..

Allowing benefits for guesting people who set a dead or stupidly imbalanced home campaigns where people "do work" against keep guards and walls is asinine.

Not adding a parameter to recognize when a player is on a guest campaign is simply lazy coding or "ZoS logic and eternal foresight."

Breea · July 2014

I said that's where they decided to draw the line. No matter which way you go someone's going to be upset about it, period. There's no way to have it both ways.

That's how they decided to do it and I'm okay with that. Everyone has the choice of their home server, it's not something that's forced on you, and therefore if a whole faction wanted to own a server's map just for buffs they can do that. By the same token each faction can do this on a different server and everyone can get the buffs. It's a mechanic of the game. If you don't like the buffs you get from your current server then you can move your home.

And there currently is a mechanic to know if you're on a guest server or not, else it wouldn't tell you what your local campaign is. Not everything that you don't decide is the absolute best way that things could possibly be handled to fit you is an oversight. It was intentionally done, not an oversight. If it was an oversight then with as many complaints as I'm sure they've seen about this there would be something about it in the known issues area.

nukeyoo · July 2014

Breea wrote: »

I said that's where they decided to draw the line. No matter which way you go someone's going to be upset about it, period. There's no way to have it both ways.

That's how they decided to do it and I'm okay with that. Everyone has the choice of their home server, it's not something that's forced on you, and therefore if a whole faction wanted to own a server's map just for buffs they can do that. By the same token each faction can do this on a different server and everyone can get the buffs. It's a mechanic of the game. If you don't like the buffs you get from your current server then you can move your home.

And there currently is a mechanic to know if you're on a guest server or not, else it wouldn't tell you what your local campaign is. Not everything that you don't decide is the absolute best way that things could possibly be handled to fit you is an oversight. It was intentionally done, not an oversight. If it was an oversight then with as many complaints as I'm sure they've seen about this there would be something about it in the known issues area.

The line of code(or "mechanic") designating the information of whether you are on guest campaign or not is separate from the line of code that designates your buffs. This buffs "mechanic" is designed to follow you to every zone PvP or PvE.

And by not adding a parameter to recognize when a player enters a guest campaign (to determine buffs) is simply lazy coding or "ZoS logic and eternal foresight."

Rewards and benefits for doing little/nothing.. Just like the U.S. Government. I'm glad you're happy with it. Others aren't and we're entitled to our opinions so you can stop trying to push your acceptance of it on others.

It may have been intentionally done or it could be an oversight in the system they haven't got to yet. Frankly, if it is an oversight, I don't know if I want them to even try to touch it when considering their "fixing" history. But only time will tell...

@ZoS Here's some crappy java syntax for the devs to translate into the code.
if(zone==Cyrodiil&&campaign!=home)
Buffs = Guest Campaign;
else
Buffs = Home Campaign;

Breea · July 2014

Exactly, it would be simple to code in there. In fact there's probably currently a piece of code that says that if you're currently not in your home campaign to pull up the buffs for your home campaign. That's my point. The way it currently works would be harder to code than the way that you're suggesting which would support it being intentional. I'm not saying that you're not allowed to disagree with it, I'm just saying that it is intentional and not something that is broken like seems to be the popular belief among those who don't like it.

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

Sounds like it needs a hotfix

Breea · July 2014

Their current list of known bugs and issues does not have this on it. It is not currently seen by developers as an unintended ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114325/patch-v1-2-3-known-issues/p1

eudae · July 2014

Breea wrote: »

Their current list of known bugs and issues does not have this on it. It is not currently seen by developers as an unintended ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114325/patch-v1-2-3-known-issues/p1

That's why the question, to the developers, is "Why is X like this?" and not "Is x a bug/unintentional?"

Breea · July 2014

eudae wrote: »

Breea wrote: »

Their current list of known bugs and issues does not have this on it. It is not currently seen by developers as an unintended ability.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/114325/patch-v1-2-3-known-issues/p1

That's why the question, to the developers, is "Why is X like this?" and not "Is x a bug/unintentional?"

Okay then the question is how else would you like to see it? That you get only the buffs for the campaign you're guesting on? That you don't get any buffs if not on your home campaign? That no one gets any buffs at all?

Each of these would make others upset too. And then we'll have another thread bemoaning the changes because they changed it to the way you want it to be. I say we let them leave it the way they intended it to be and figure out how to deal with it. Do I agree with everything they've intended, no, but as long as it's how the game is intended to be played it's their game and their rules. When you make a video game then you can make your own rules. It's like arguing that you don't like the types of abilities your character's class has so they have to change them to meet with your idea of what they should have done.

How they came to the conclusion is their business, just like how they came to make three factions instead of two or how they decided to give you skill points for killing boss number one and not for boss number two. I'm sure it was debated at length between a number of developers before they decided on it. Like I said, no matter which option they chose there would be some that don't like it, there is no make everyone happy button, though I wish there was.

DeLindsay · July 2014

I'm not sure I understand the question, when I'm set to 'Guest' of any Campaign before I find a good home I want to stick with I get no buffs at all. I only get buffs once I choose a Home Campaign, and if we're actually doing well ofc. How are players getting buffs without having a Home Campaign?

Breea · July 2014

DeLindsay wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand the question, when I'm set to 'Guest' of any Campaign before I find a good home I want to stick with I get no buffs at all. I only get buffs once I choose a Home Campaign, and if we're actually doing well ofc. How are players getting buffs without having a Home Campaign?

Allow me to explain. The first time you go into a campaign it is designated as your home campaign. You can't not have a home campaign. The buffs from your home campaign are only active in Cyrodiil, but you still get the buffs from your home campaign when you play on another campaign.

DeLindsay · July 2014

And I should clarify, I mean buffs OUTSIDE Cyro when you have no 'Home' Campaign set. So you are saying that a player Guests onto one Campaign that's maybe doing well for his/her Faction then goes into another Campaign where maybe his/her Faction is doing poorly but still has the good buffs of the previous Campaign?

nukeyoo · July 2014

Breea wrote: »

The way it currently works would be harder to code than the way that you're suggesting which would support it being intentional.

How is the current mechanic "harder to code"?
Buffs = Home Campaign; Lol...

Breea wrote: »

Okay then the question is how else would you like to see it? That you get only the buffs for the campaign you're guesting on? That you don't get any buffs if not on your home campaign? That no one gets any buffs at all?

Apparently you're not grasping the most sensible change which is being suggested. Your buffs would remain the same as your home campaign any where you go; UNLESS you guested on a different Cyrodiil campaign. Of which you would receive the buffs from that particular campaign.

I don't mind them getting the extra buffs in PvE,but someone guesting on my home campaign should not have an advantage that was not earned on my home campaign.

The only people that would be upset with this change are those that either lack common sense or enjoy using this flawed system to gain as much advantage as they can while doing little/nothing. These same type of people exploit the system as much as they can get away with(with ZoS thats alot) whether broken skills, terrain, duping, or emperor swapping.

eudae · July 2014

^ this 100%

Soloeus · July 2014

eudae wrote: »

This is counter-intuitive and provides an imbalance for players who home on, say, Auriel's Bow NA and guest on Wabbajack NA.

Yes, the buffs should ONLY apply to "Home Campaign" and never in PVE.

DeLindsay · July 2014

Soloeus wrote: »

eudae wrote: »

This is counter-intuitive and provides an imbalance for players who home on, say, Auriel's Bow NA and guest on Wabbajack NA.

Yes, the buffs should ONLY apply to "Home Campaign" and never in PVE.

Why ,what possible reason is there to penalize players who PvP when they choose to PvE by removing the buffs outside Cyro? It's not like we have them 24/7 even if you're on AB as AD for example. I do agree that a player shouldn't be able to get his/her "home" buffs on a "guest" campaign though.

radogamer · July 2014

Fissh it's the norm on every online game forum, and there's not much to do about it but I'm with you, I stay away from the forums and play the game. I admit I come around to check in periodically, rarely but on occasion, I respond. This is one of those times. Stay above the BS and offer your support it's all we can do.

Fissh wrote: »

read more, you might find they have addressed this, but alas...insulting ESO with negativity seems to be the norm in forums versus constructive critics.

radogamer · July 2014

Oh and perhaps the question needs to be asked in the support forums instead of here, you may find the answer a lot faster and from someone who does know.

nukeyoo · July 2014

radogamer wrote: »

Fissh it's the norm on every online game forum, and there's not much to do about it but I'm with you, I stay away from the forums and play the game. I admit I come around to check in periodically, rarely but on occasion, I respond. This is one of those times. Stay above the BS and offer your support it's all we can do.

Fissh wrote: »

read more, you might find they have addressed this, but alas...insulting ESO with negativity seems to be the norm in forums versus constructive critics.

Riding a high horse and claiming moral high ground in a argument is only valid if your argument is relevant.

And if you "read more" you would see that Fissh's "support" was met with disregard due to the fact it had no relevance towards the inquired issue. You would also read that due to lack of ZoS expressed view on the matter that we are left to simply speculate; this discussion topic has been around for months.

FYI customers that express dissatisfaction openly get more and sometimes quicker attention from the company then those that simply give their money away and hope for the best.

dcincali · July 2014

Rylana wrote: »

Buffs should only apply on your home campaign, period.

^^This.. We had peeps popping into our camp asking in /z "What camp is used for buffs now?" Really??!!? Play the f*ing game as its intended bunch of scrubs..

moxiesauce · July 2014

eudae wrote: »

This is counter-intuitive and provides an imbalance for players who home on, say, Auriel's Bow NA and guest on Wabbajack NA.

The reduction in the number of campaigns (I think in update 3) should reduce the chances of this exploit from happening.

nukeyoo · July 2014

moxiesauce wrote: »

eudae wrote: »

This is counter-intuitive and provides an imbalance for players who home on, say, Auriel's Bow NA and guest on Wabbajack NA.

The reduction in the number of campaigns (I think in update 3) should reduce the chances of this exploit from happening.

It shouldn't need to be reduced. It should just be changed sensibly.
Home/PVE = home buffs; Guest = guest buffs.

I'm hesitant to have them touch it though. I don't want to trade this change for another 2 weeks of unplayableness. :disagree:

Halrloprillalar · July 2014

Or they could just disable guesting

radogamer · January 2015

After 8 years of mmo's and thousands of hours of online game play, I can ride what ever horse I want. All I can say is WHATEVER! My comment's were meant for Fissh if anyone else is offended, not my problem. It's like the game, just keep playing, no matter what people think or say!