XP needed to get 1 CP

DeathDealer19 · January 2015

Okay so I know im not the only one saying or thinking this. 400k XP to get 1 CP is ridiculous guys. I love update 6 so far. absolutely love it but this is to much

My main is a Templar and I have completed 90% of all quests in the game. I spent 5 hours give or take a few min last night questing in a vr10 zone, and im still not even halfway to 400k xp.

I hopped over to the spellscar area to see how that was and even in a group of 2, its ridiculously slow and not feasible. With the xp gain I tested running spellscar (with the whole area to myself) I was not getting anything more than like 50k per hour. Keep in mind on the live server, spellscar is always flooded with 100000000000 people. So anyone who says they can do 400k xp an hour at spell scar is wrong and I want video proof.

I did 2 vr dungeons on the pts and there was a minimal gain. I did a run of wayrest and elden hollow for testing purposes and I think I gained less than 15k xp for both runs... do the math that will take weeks for 1 cp.

I really think this amount needs to be lowered to somewhere around 40-50k XP to be realistic with what we were told. we were told an avg of an hour of normal gameplay would net us a skillpoint. 400k is ridiculous and there will be no way for us to get CP's. What do I do when ive completed every quest? Grinds were nerfed (which I support and agree with) and VR Dungeons give almost no xp... So what else can I do? 2 daily dungeon pledges and some crafting dailies?

ZOS please take a look at this and provide some feedback. Id really like to know that im not crazy and missing something critical here.

lostavalon · January 2015

Dam I thort it was go a be 200k per point, tho there was someone in zone that said they lost CP, went from 71 back to 70

DeathDealer19 · January 2015

they shouldn't have had 71 to begin with. 70 was max to start with

but yeah 400k is ridiculous for a single CP. they told us it would take an avg of an hour of normal gameplay to earn one. 400k is NOT one hour of gameplay.

Galalin · January 2015

If this goes live i think my sub will go elsewhere.... all they did was change some skills take half the *** away and put it in champion points for us to earn it back at the cost of a lifetime grind

ojameswb14_ESO · January 2015

I agree with the OP. Gaining 400k experience in one hour seems impossible.

Sharee · January 2015

People need to adjust the mindset that everytime there is a way to upgrade their characters, they can just grind it out and be done with it.

Champion points system is designed to take years to max out. Just accept that and move on. You will gain CP over time as you normally play the game. Getting a CP will be a nice side bonus every once in a while, but other than that, pretty much ignore it. If you try to grind this one out it will drive you crazy.

Shinra · January 2015

ojameswb14_ESO wrote: »

I agree with OP. Gaining 400k experience in one hour seems impossible.

They said a veteran level takes about 8-10 hours. Seein as they said that champion points would take about 1 hour, I honestly thought that the XP you need would be somewhere from 100.000-150.000.

Didn't expect 400.000, and that's not something I am gonna support. They said 1 hour per CP for average playing, not for grinding.

Syntse · January 2015

Shinra wrote: »

They said

They said a lot of things that later on was changed or not being true. They say doesn't mean they promise. They say doesn't mean it will be.

Sharee · January 2015

Shinra wrote: »

ojameswb14_ESO wrote: »

I agree with OP. Gaining 400k experience in one hour seems impossible.

They said a veteran level takes about 8-10 hours. Seein as they said that champion points would take about 1 hour, I honestly thought that the XP you need would be somewhere from 100.000-150.000.

Didn't expect 400.000, and that's not something I am gonna support. They said 1 hour per CP for average playing, not for grinding.

Just to clear things up: they said it would take one hour to gain a champion point while enlightened. Being enlightened makes every XP point to count as 4 XP points for the purpose of gaining CP.

That means while enlightened, it does take about 100.000 raw XP to gain a CP.

McDoogs · January 2015

Sharee wrote: »

People need to adjust the mindset that everytime there is a way to upgrade their characters, they can just grind it out and be done with it.

Champion points system is designed to take years to max out. Just accept that and move on. You will gain CP over time as you normally play the game. Getting a CP will be a nice side bonus every once in a while, but other than that, pretty much ignore it. If you try to grind this one out it will drive you crazy.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away from this game, and the champion point system right now is even worse and in many ways less rewarding. It's even worse for everyone who has exhausted all of the non-repeatable content, especially since ZOS decided to nerf mob kill xp into the dirt.

Nazon_Katts · January 2015

Still, at the current rate questing demands 4 years /played (as in never sleep, eat, **** nor die) to get to max CP. Those XP pots better be potent and cheap.

Sharee · January 2015

McDoogs wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

People need to adjust the mindset that everytime there is a way to upgrade their characters, they can just grind it out and be done with it.

Champion points system is designed to take years to max out. Just accept that and move on. You will gain CP over time as you normally play the game. Getting a CP will be a nice side bonus every once in a while, but other than that, pretty much ignore it. If you try to grind this one out it will drive you crazy.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away from this game, and the champion point system right now is even worse and in many ways less rewarding. It's even worse for everyone who has exhausted all of the non-repeatable content, especially since ZOS decided to nerf mob kill xp into the dirt.

But that's what i mean.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away because it was a grind that could be done, and thus had to be done.

The CP 'grind' is impossible(4 years to max, grinding 24/7). Thus no one will do it, and thus no on has to do it to be competitive. It will just be something you gain on the side as you play, without really trying to.

Closest analogy i can think of is EVE online's skill system. It is not possible to grind it out, since it just happens to improve as you play.

Syntse · January 2015

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Still, at the current rate questing demands 4 years /played (as in never sleep, eat, **** nor die) to get to max CP. Those XP pots better be potent and cheap.

So basically you are looking for maxing the whole champion system in about 4 weeks max instead of having some char progression continuously for years to come.

olsborg · January 2015

Galalin wrote: »

If this goes live i think my sub will go elsewhere.... all they did was change some skills take half the *** away and put it in champion points for us to earn it back at the cost of a lifetime grind

Nicely put, and I agree.
To the op too.

Nazon_Katts · January 2015

Sharee wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

People need to adjust the mindset that everytime there is a way to upgrade their characters, they can just grind it out and be done with it.

Champion points system is designed to take years to max out. Just accept that and move on. You will gain CP over time as you normally play the game. Getting a CP will be a nice side bonus every once in a while, but other than that, pretty much ignore it. If you try to grind this one out it will drive you crazy.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away from this game, and the champion point system right now is even worse and in many ways less rewarding. It's even worse for everyone who has exhausted all of the non-repeatable content, especially since ZOS decided to nerf mob kill xp into the dirt.

But that's what i mean.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away because it was a grind that could be done, and thus had to be done.

The CP 'grind' is impossible(4 years to max, grinding 24/7). Thus no one will do it, and thus no on has to do it to be competitive. It will just be something you gain on the side as you play, without really trying to.

Closest analogy i can think of is EVE online's skill system. It is not possible to grind it out, since it just happens to improve as you play.

Not grinding. Questing. As in: playing the content as designed.

And considering there's maybe a month's /played worth of endgame content, if you repeat dungeons and trials, the CS is not only impossible to max, but redundant in the first place. If people cannot progress, they won't participate and it's gonna be worse than VR.

And contrary to EvE where you can be great in 3 months real time and awesome in year (yep, there's meaningful progress almost all the time), there's no additional layer of growth, like political power and player wealth, that actually have any further impact on the game.

ESO remains a vertical progression game with the CS. And if that turns out - yet again - too steep or even impossible to climb, it has failed before it even started.

tengri · January 2015

The moment I saw that subscription = more XP gain I knew the game was over. XP-wise I mean.
This is purely designed to milk subscriptions as long and as hard as possible.
I'm still gonna play and might even buy a DLC or two at times but no way in hell I'm keeping a subscription now.

Nazon_Katts · January 2015

Syntse wrote: »

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Still, at the current rate questing demands 4 years /played (as in never sleep, eat, **** nor die) to get to max CP. Those XP pots better be potent and cheap.

So basically you are looking for maxing the whole champion system in about 4 weeks max instead of having some char progression continuously for years to come.

Now, where did I say that? And are you planning to play the game for the next 50 years? Because that's how long it'll take to max, if you play 2h/d on average.

I think 4 years to max real time wouldn't be all too bad, but when looking at the current state of the genre, I don't think this would be very well received by most. Even at 1h/CP, you're looking at an average time investment I doubt most of this game's target audience would be willing to make.

So no doubt, there's going to be 'convenience' items in the crown shop to alleviate this particular problem.

But with 10h/CP and just a little over 4% of the needed content in place, we'd be looking at pretty strong pots (x10+) just to get into the ballpark of an acceptable rate of progression, which would render them rather mandatory and less convenience.

Derra · January 2015

Sharee wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

People need to adjust the mindset that everytime there is a way to upgrade their characters, they can just grind it out and be done with it.

Champion points system is designed to take years to max out. Just accept that and move on. You will gain CP over time as you normally play the game. Getting a CP will be a nice side bonus every once in a while, but other than that, pretty much ignore it. If you try to grind this one out it will drive you crazy.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away from this game, and the champion point system right now is even worse and in many ways less rewarding. It's even worse for everyone who has exhausted all of the non-repeatable content, especially since ZOS decided to nerf mob kill xp into the dirt.

But that's what i mean.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away because it was a grind that could be done, and thus had to be done.

The CP 'grind' is impossible(4 years to max, grinding 24/7). Thus no one will do it, and thus no on has to do it to be competitive. It will just be something you gain on the side as you play, without really trying to.

Closest analogy i can think of is EVE online's skill system. It is not possible to grind it out, since it just happens to improve as you play.

Great post there @Sharee. I think this can not be stressed out enough. This is exactly how i think of the system. The enlightened buff will keep regular players fairly close to 24/7 players.
One thing that has to be done imho is for enlightened buff to work account based and not character based. Don´t know how it is implemented atm.

The problem is most mmo players are not accustomed to such a system as its the complete opposite the majority has experienced so far.

Enodoc · January 2015

It does seem to be a bit off the mark though, since it should take around 4 hours to gain 1 CP while not enlightened, and OP says

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

I spent 5 hours give or take a few min last night questing in a vr10 zone, and im still not even halfway to 400k xp.

Based on this, I would say a more reasonable number, to be aiming at 1 CP every 4 hours, would be somewhere in the 160-250k XP range.

McDoogs · January 2015

Derra wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

McDoogs wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

People need to adjust the mindset that everytime there is a way to upgrade their characters, they can just grind it out and be done with it.

Champion points system is designed to take years to max out. Just accept that and move on. You will gain CP over time as you normally play the game. Getting a CP will be a nice side bonus every once in a while, but other than that, pretty much ignore it. If you try to grind this one out it will drive you crazy.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away from this game, and the champion point system right now is even worse and in many ways less rewarding. It's even worse for everyone who has exhausted all of the non-repeatable content, especially since ZOS decided to nerf mob kill xp into the dirt.

But that's what i mean.

The veteran rank leveling drove people away because it was a grind that could be done, and thus had to be done.

The CP 'grind' is impossible(4 years to max, grinding 24/7). Thus no one will do it, and thus no on has to do it to be competitive. It will just be something you gain on the side as you play, without really trying to.

Closest analogy i can think of is EVE online's skill system. It is not possible to grind it out, since it just happens to improve as you play.

Great post there @Sharee. I think this can not be stressed out enough. This is exactly how i think of the system. The enlightened buff will keep regular players fairly close to 24/7 players.
One thing that has to be done imho is for enlightened buff to work account based and not character based. Don´t know how it is implemented atm.

The problem is most mmo players are not accustomed to such a system as its the complete opposite the majority has experienced so far.

And that is what makes it a terrible idea, bro. It's not been done because it's stupid and off-putting.

Actually no, it has been done before. The original Darkfall had a skill progression rate that was so steep and slow that the game sub numbers, although it started with an extremely rabid and loyal fan base quickly dropped off to almost nothing. People will not stick around for a steep, meaningless grind, especially when a game offers very little end game content, ESPECIALLY when the player has already exhausted the non-repeatable content under the previous progression system. Who wants to pay to grind out the same dungeons every day?

DeathDealer19 · January 2015

I think the Champion system is fantastic and love most of the changes to 1.6

That being said 400k xp for 1 CP just isn't feasible. There are so many points and theres just nothing to do currently to get that kind of xp daily. I usually do 1-2 Sanctum Ophidia runs per day with the occasional vet pledge or something like that. At 400k xp per CP, itll be literally a month or more until I see 1 CP. Right now there isn't even a grind that can get us a CP in an hour or two. I mean right now what is there to do if youre done questing? I would have to sit at the spellscar for literally a week straight if I want to get any more CP for testing.

I don't want it to be easy enough to get 300 CP in a week but they assured us it would be about an hour or so of AVERAGE GAMEPLAY. 400k is not average, that is grinding. And im not talking spellscar im talking thief or dwemer grind. ESO has become so anti grinding and I love that. But this 400k XP per CP is almost demanding it. And we don't even have anymore grinds in which to do this.

This is why I suggested 40-75k XP per CP. This seems like a number that could easily be hit by say doing both pledges and maybe a trial or two. A few vet dungeons and a few quests. That is more like an hour or so of average gameplay.

And to the one saying this is a system meant to be max'd out in 4 years...... Youre insane. No game shoots for a char development system that takes 4 years to max out. I mean there are HUNDREDS of CP to be gained and tweaked and reworked. If they lower the XP to a reasonable number like I have suggested, the CP system will still keep me occupied on my char for 6 months if not more. That is PERFECT. And once we get some future updates with new zones, quests, trials, dungeons, we will have even more ways to keep earning CP.

ZOS, I cant stress enough how much I am impressed and in love with the Champion system. But please lower the XP required for 1 point from 400k down to a reasonable number. You need to take a look at how much XP is gained from doing a VR dungeon, trial, or a single quest. Its basic math. Id highly suggest 40k-75k XP per CP. Im going to get on today and do a few things to keep track of xp gained and Ill let you know what I come up with. (Maybe ill finally get my first CP earned)

Enodoc · January 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

[...] they assured us it would be about an hour or so of AVERAGE GAMEPLAY.

@DeathDealer19‌ remember that's while enlightened. 4 hours per CP otherwise, so you may need to adjust your 40-75k XP per CP to 160-300k XP per CP if that was based on 1 hour, to match up to being 4 hours for not enlightened.

Syntse · January 2015

About 1,5h today and 2 CP. Though started with 150k and enlightened.

DeathDealer19 · January 2015

yeah I do understand that enlightened does play a part in it, but youre not always going to be enlightened. 400k is just too steep for people who don't have zones left to quest

Syntse · January 2015

DeathDealer19 wrote: »

yeah I do understand that enlightened does play a part in it, but youre not always going to be enlightened. 400k is just too steep for people who don't have zones left to quest

I will try questing too once got these skills even a bit up. Hopefully see how much dungeons etc are once I get my own character copied as well as my friends too so that we actually have competent group to try out dungeons.

olsborg · January 2015

I think 400k is alot no matter how you twist and turn it. However, if you cant earn equal amount of xp in pvp as in pve, zos is doing something wrong.

Enodoc · January 2015

Syntse wrote: »

About 1,5h today and 2 CP. Though started with 150k and enlightened.

Interestingly enough, that sounds close to being spot on. What sort of things were you doing in that time? It may be that XP is not balanced enough, rather than the XP to CP rate being too high.

DeathDealer19 · January 2015

VR dungeons didn't seem to give much of anything without enlightenment. Ill do some more testing today for an actual number

AlnilamE · January 2015

Derra wrote: »

One thing that has to be done imho is for enlightened buff to work account based and not character based. Don´t know how it is implemented atm.

Hell no! As far as I know, right now, if you start off one character and they are enlightened and their enlightenment ends, you can switch to a VR alt and the alt will be enlightened and you can earn CP with them instead.

If enlightenment is account based, the only way to become enlightened again is to log off and not play the game. That would make no sense.

Though we'll have to test that on the PTS.

Syntse · January 2015

Enodoc wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

About 1,5h today and 2 CP. Though started with 150k and enlightened.

Interestingly enough, that sounds close to being spot on. What sort of things were you doing in that time? It may be that XP is not balanced enough, rather than the XP to CP rate being too high.

So far grinded some mobs to raise skills that I can actually test something (thanks for the template). Once got some skills leveled I'll try some questing. Later when we get our EU chars, going to see how much pledges etc gives.

DeathDealer19 · January 2015

So I just did an AA run and got all the way to the mage. 1,143XP for the entire run. this is what im talking about. and entire AA run and 1143XP. and you expect us to get 400k XP in an hour