Nightblade 1.6 Nerf

Tankqull · January 2015

AlnilamE wrote: »

Why does everybody hate Lotus Fan?

because its an PvE skill that is even horrible there.

olemanwinter · January 2015

Turelus wrote: »

I don't think anyone ever needed to grind, those who wanted to be max level faster than questing or PVP allowed chose to grind.

VoB was 17 seconds of basically being immune in PVE and pretty useful in PVP. We were in a situation where we had one ultimate, VoB the other one most likely Flawless Dawnbreaker to buff weapon damage.

I really see the changes as a way to make the choice of ultimate more compelling an not VoB or GTFO.

If you wanted to be a NB healer (couldn't tell if that was sarcasm or not) then surely the new improvements Soul Tether could be of interest to you?

You are clueless.

VoB in PVP?

It's not horrible. It's a little like Devouring Swarm....except it's stationary. It doesn't chase you. DERP.

Basically Immune in PvE? 30% less is Immune?

Do me a favor. Take 30% out of whatever is in your wallet right now and then give me the rest. Sheesh.

It's not even remotely as effective as the Templar Ult from a healing standpoint.

From the standpoint of damage it's pretty meh, unless you are dealing with a pack of trash mobs. But trash mobs are trash mobs, who cares? It doesn't matter.

It's really only used at end-game for damage mitigation and grinding. That's why it's a pretty big freaking deal for people actually playing DSA or trials.

Turelus wrote: »

If you wanted to be a NB healer (couldn't tell if that was sarcasm or not)

So clueless.

This game is being redesigned specifically for people like you. And it's just sad.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO · January 2015

Everything i can read is directing in big changes . Only thing i am sure right now is that nothing will remain the same. I am sure that stamina NBs will do better in pvp than now but not sure how much better in pve . Just testing will provide for answers . I am specially interested in pve setup

)

DDuke · January 2015

tino.antoninieb17_ESO wrote: »

Everything i can read is directing in big changes . Only thing i am sure right now is that nothing will remain the same. I am sure that stamina NBs will do better in pvp than now but not sure how much better in pve . Just testing will provide for answers . I am specially interested in pve setup )

Actually it's going to be quite the opposite, since stamina burst damage is going down for NBs, when compared to other classes.

I posted about it on the PTS forums: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/148615/why-is-nightblade-now-the-worst-class-for-stealth-burst

In PvE, we may very well actually see a DPS increase with Surprise Attack being stamina based.

Celless · January 2015

olemanwinter wrote: »

re: Veil of Blades

I believe he may be speaking of in 1.5 live, Veil gives the caster 60% damage reduction as long as you stand in it and not simply 30%.

Erondil · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, I feel stamina NB & magicka NB are now more balanced.

Post-1.6, stamina is likely going to surpass magicka in terms of burst damage, but will still be squishier and easier to kill.

Stamina will get 3*armor AND spell resist of the magicka NB . They wont be squishier at all
Edit : If you meant stamina wich doesnt use resto, so lets compare a magicka NB destro+dw and a stamina bow+dw... still stamina got better resistance agaisnt magicka and physicals attacks. Which make a non-sense for me

Lynx7386 · January 2015

Light armor melee builds were ridiculous anyways, you shouldn't be in stabbing range when you're wearing nothing more than a glorified tshirt.

DDuke · January 2015

Erondil wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

To be honest, I feel stamina NB & magicka NB are now more balanced.

Post-1.6, stamina is likely going to surpass magicka in terms of burst damage, but will still be squishier and easier to kill.

Stamina will get 3*armor AND spell resist of the magicka NB . They wont be squishier at all
Edit : If you meant stamina wich doesnt use resto, so lets compare a magicka NB destro+dw and a stamina bow+dw... still stamina got better resistance agaisnt magicka and physicals attacks. Which make a non-sense for me

Except no immunity until out of magicka and/or stamina in form of block+heals/dmg shields (as it should be), so while you are correct that they take 15-20%~ less damage (assuming no -armour debuff applies), you are easier to kill when playing a stamina build (atleast as NB).

Of course, Templars & DKs can still spam Blazing Shields & GDBs to their hearts' content, as they don't scale with spell dmg/magicka (as they should imo), but we're talking about magicka NB - stamina NB difference.

Shunravi · January 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Light armor melee builds were ridiculous anyways, you shouldn't be in stabbing range when you're wearing nothing more than a glorified tshirt.

This ninja and his cloth armor would like to slap you for that.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVYSnOi8NlsD7QNJoz2Do1Lcm8qoiCH3I-EWkEuVgg_sypqpjQ8Q

Erondil · January 2015

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Light armor melee builds were ridiculous anyways, you shouldn't be in stabbing range when you're wearing nothing more than a glorified tshirt.

Why some leather would give you spell resist while a magicka clothe doesn't? How magicka can exist? How spray arrow can works?plz zeni remove all skills and stuff except 2h, few dw, bow and sb. Because actually its ridiculous.

DDuke wrote: »

Except no immunity until out of magicka and/or stamina in form of block+heals/dmg shields (as it should be), so while you are correct that they take 15-20%~ less damage (assuming no -armour debuff applies), you are easier to kill when playing a stamina build (atleast as NB).

We're talking about magicka NB - stamina NB difference.

So we have to make difference between magicka/stamina NBs using both resto or not at all.
A magicka NB can spam healing ward a bit more but his damages skills use magicka too, so not so much.
One magicka reg/spell cost reduce and you got the same HW/min potential (because you don't use magicka for other things).
He has a better burst since surpise attack and ambush scales ONLY on stamina. His only problem is that doge/CC break free and others stuffs use stamina, the pool he uses to deal damages too. The magicka one can us break free as much as a stamina NB if he got a stam reg glyph, but his heals use magicka, the pool he uses to deal damages.
So both get problems, one (stamina) with CC break, block and dogerolling, and the magicka with heals.
But the stamina get more damages and more dmg mitigations from all sources! I'm still thinking that medium would give 3/4 armor 1/4 spell res and light 3/4 spell res and 1/4 armor.
A stamina can use resto. You don't want because it's not like you should play. I respect you for that, but it doesn't means stamina NB in general are squishier than magicka NB because they can't heal. A magicka NB can decide to don't use resto to. Even if its more rare.

But the real problem for me is that now, a melee magicka NB can't even exist because no surprise attack, no ambush. The 2 most importants offensives skills in my build. Those skills would scales on the higher stat, like ults does.

pjwb16_ESO · January 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Sorry ambush stamina is the worst *** ever for magicka nightblades melee. Because yes, caster doesnt means siphon/range style if you didn't know. The other morph is almost never used, so why not turn it to a stamina ambush? This way we got 2 morphs doing exactly the same thing but one using stamina for stam players and the other one using mag for magicka players. And everybody is happy because nobody care about lotus ***. My build is quite *** up due to that, I can't spend stam to ambush.
#ZOSlogic

morvegil wrote: »

As a Stamina NB this is good. Screw you NBs wearing robes...dumbest thing ever.

In the Lore a Nightblade is a f***ing Ilusion Mage, with Shadow
so wearing a Staff and Robes is just fully in lore... Typical Bow Ganker...

Spell and shadow are their friends. By darkness they move with haste, casting magic to benefit their circumstances. (in-game description)

Nightblades are effective assassins and enforcers. Their speed and skills allow them to easily reach places most others could not. Nightblades dispose of opponents with a quick blade and Destruction magic. They are also skilled in Alteration magic, and are proficient in healing themselves.

Erondil wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Lotus Fan is for NB Tanks. Pop in, shank off everyone around you, and get all the aggro, then start using real AoEs as the rest of the team moves in.

I got a NB tank build (pvp and pve) and Lotus fan is not really interesting, shielded assault is better since you get a shield, and you can't be interrupted. You don't need to get agro on trashs mobs, the dps can blockcast so they don't take a lot of damages. Refreshing path is another option wich I use sometimes, so lotus fan is not really needed for tank.

Soulac wrote: »

Actually Lotus fan is not that bad, as long as u use it while ur enemy isn't blocking.

It's a physical dot and drains Stamina and in addition to shadow image and bash animation canceling, your enemy is out of stamina in a matter of seconds.

It gonna be a spell dot in 1.6. More than that, good duels opponent doesn't spam block anymore (against me at least) due to my shadow and my fear, so no stamina drain agaisnt them. Agaisnt bad opponents, shadow and fear are already enough to drain their stamina in couple of seconds. And the 36% damages bonuses from ambush is awesome coupled to ult. With the fear new duration, you got 3secs to burst to the death your opponent. Without ambush+ult, it seems not possible.

Thats it pretty much... Why not make Lotus Fan and Concealed Weapon be the Stamina Morphs. They are both useless like Stamina Bow gankers.

DDuke · January 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Light armor melee builds were ridiculous anyways, you shouldn't be in stabbing range when you're wearing nothing more than a glorified tshirt.

Why some leather would give you spell resist while a magicka clothe doesn't? How magicka can exist? How spray arrow can works?plz zeni remove all skills and stuff except 2h, few dw, bow and sb. Because actually its ridiculous.

DDuke wrote: »

Except no immunity until out of magicka and/or stamina in form of block+heals/dmg shields (as it should be), so while you are correct that they take 15-20%~ less damage (assuming no -armour debuff applies), you are easier to kill when playing a stamina build (atleast as NB).

We're talking about magicka NB - stamina NB difference.

So we have to make difference between magicka/stamina NBs using both resto or not at all.
A magicka NB can spam healing ward a bit more but his damages skills use magicka too, so not so much.
One magicka reg/spell cost reduce and you got the same HW/min potential (because you don't use magicka for other things).
He has a better burst since surpise attack and ambush scales ONLY on stamina. His only problem is that doge/CC break free and others stuffs use stamina, the pool he uses to deal damages too. The magicka one can us break free as much as a stamina NB if he got a stam reg glyph, but his heals use magicka, the pool he uses to deal damages.
So both get problems, one (stamina) with CC break, block and dogerolling, and the magicka with heals.
But the stamina get more damages and more dmg mitigations from all sources! I'm still thinking that medium would give 3/4 armor 1/4 spell res and light 3/4 spell res and 1/4 armor.
A stamina can use resto. You don't want because it's not like you should play. I respect you for that, but it doesn't means stamina NB in general are squishier than magicka NB because they can't heal. A magicka NB can decide to don't use resto to. Even if its more rare.

But the real problem for me is that now, a melee magicka NB can't even exist because no surprise attack, no ambush. The 2 most importants offensives skills in my build. Those skills would scales on the higher stat, like ults does.

It's not that big of a deal. You can still use Concealed Weapon instead of Surprise Attack and Ambush for the burst (although it will deal less damage).

I've been using Ambush (even though it's magicka on live) pretty much since the beta as a stamina NB. It's not ideal, but you can live with it.
Your burst will still be good if you combo that with something like Soul Harvest, and there's some crazy stuff you can do with Mages Guild abilities now to get high burst.

What I'm more worried about now is the fact that all NBs (not just magicka) will have the worst stealth burst in game, as they nerfed Hemorrhage & we've got no access to any of the Major buffs before engaging opponent.

XEVENEX · January 2015

Ambush >>> Surprise Attack is god mode on live at the moment. If that is confusing to you then you're doing it wrong and need to talk to a NB who knows what I'm talking about.

I don't know how effective it will be in a stamina build, and I'm not sure how much the 30% >>> 8% damage boost will change things, but I suspect it is still going to be OP as f***.

NB is the strongest class right now.

Erondil · January 2015

Yes, I can still use ambush. But I haven't endless stamina, for duel stamina is np, but in 1vX I use a lot of ambush, and I've got limited stamina. The thing I really can't understand in Zeni Logic, it's there is Lotus fan, a morph almost never used (<5% of NBs I think), they just could turn it into a stamina ambush That way they both got the burst bonus, but one using stamina and one magicka.
I can use concelead weapon, but surprise attack is used by every caster melee (except gankers), and I lost 5% damages for a bonus I don't care at all. They just should do like they did with ults: scale on higher pool.
+The new armor system makes non-sense, L A should gives more spell resist than MA and less armor.
+The 3secs fear (doesn't really matter 3 instead of 2, I play mostly duel/solo), I can't burst to death someone in 3 secs
+The shadow image nerf
+CD on the siphon ultimate passive, remove of the pots passive.
=my build is almost dead

pjwb16_ESO · January 2015

Yep Erondil is right, Im in the same situation right now, hope ZoS change it...

Lynnessa · January 2015

oren74 wrote: »

yeah as a NB...no more just rushing into the middle of a zerg, hit bats, sap like crazy holding block, build ultimate, bats again.

Was too good to be true

Meh, that kind of thing felt too easy anyway. When I discovered it was possible, I was like, "Really? I can just push two buttons and not move? O...kay."

Stumkrav · January 2015

The main problem of stamina NB it's the survivability.

No self-heal. meanwhile DK has an amazing GDB as well as other ways to survive without burning his stamina. That's the problem.

DK will be better stamina/DW user than NB, just because they've better survivability an offensive capacity.

Maybe it's to early to say, but it's not looking good. Yep his DMG will be at good spot, but in pvp? They will be a free kill, our only choice now is pray that Cloack it's fixed, which I doubt it.

XEVENEX · January 2015

Erondil wrote: »

Yes, I can still use ambush. But I haven't endless stamina, for duel stamina is np, but in 1vX I use a lot of ambush, and I've got limited stamina.

Ambush >>> Surprise Attack is WAY too good right now. I don't like to wish nerfs on any class, but even reasonable Nightblades agree. It's ridiculously good. It's unstoppable 1v1, and that's just not a good thing.

I don't think 1.6 will change that, only time will tell, but anyone complaining when the nerf bat does come is just not being reasonable.

DDuke · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Yes, I can still use ambush. But I haven't endless stamina, for duel stamina is np, but in 1vX I use a lot of ambush, and I've got limited stamina.

Ambush >>> Surprise Attack is WAY too good right now. I don't like to wish nerfs on any class, but even reasonable Nightblades agree. It's ridiculously good. It's unstoppable 1v1, and that's just not a good thing.

I don't think 1.6 will change that, only time will tell, but anyone complaining when the nerf bat does come is just not being reasonable.

Eh, that's not even one of the best combos you can have as a NB.

Ambush->Soul Harvest (almost always up) deals way more damage
(Incapacitate)->Lethal->Heavy attack+Poison Injection deals way more damage
Sorc combos timed with the Curse explosion deal more damage

In fact, NBs are going to have the worst burst damage (especially from stealth) after 1.6 if these changes go live, as we have access to 0 self buffs such as "Major Berserk", "Major Force" or "Major Brutality".

The "stealth class" having worst stealth burst... irony

pjwb16_ESO · January 2015

I think we are not "the stealth class"... Just because we have cloak...

Stumkrav · January 2015

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

I think we are not "the stealth class"... Just because we have cloak...

Lol, so much lol at this.

Can you please tell us what is a nightblade?

XEVENEX · January 2015

Stumkrav wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

I think we are not "the stealth class"... Just because we have cloak...

Lol, so much lol at that.

Can you please tell us what is a nightblade?

Lol back. Pigeonholing a class because ~lore~ and ~opinion~ or ~we have cloak~ is a terrible thing.

Lynx7386 · January 2015

People focus too much on the names zenimax chose for the classes. I play a berserker nightblade without any stealth and I do fine.

Stop relating how the class should play just because of the name. The classes have and always will be starting points for player builds.

Stumkrav · January 2015

Why are you guys thinking that NB is not a rogue type is beyond me.

I know you have so much fun healing/tanking with him, but is not just about "cloak", lol look at his passives/skills, men, it's clearly a rogue kind character.

But nah, idc, whatever you say. DK > NB > Temp > Sorc.

Nothing changes.

Bouvin · January 2015

Ray22 wrote: »

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Grim Focus morph still has stam regen, however now it is 10% at level 4.

The biggest nerf to NBs though is the undocumented change to the Catalyst passive. It used to increase potion effectiveness by 30%. Now it gives you 8 Ultimate when you use a potion. Utter crap.

As a side note, Argonians also had their racial passive that increased potion effectiveness nerfed. Seems like potion effectiveness was something that got the axe with 1.6

Woopsy daisy... I don't like the sound of that. The 30% increase in potion efectiveness was God almighty for some builds, yet not something that OP'd NBs. I was happy with (almost) everything about 1.6 until I read that. Giving 8 ultimate is just plain...you know what I'm about to say.

That should be changed or, hell, just removed. I'm not using 2 skill points on that crap, and that would be a first for a passive ability. Looks like an improvised thing.

It does really look like they're trying to protect newcomers or more amateur gamers who don't really know how to use potions (if they use them at all). Bad news, gotta say. Really bad news :'(

Ya, this is pretty lame. Make a single light attack 3x more powerful than the passive.

Bouvin · January 2015

Turelus wrote: »

olemanwinter wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Let's be honest as Nightblades we all knew a nerf to VoB was coming... it was kind of silly.

SILLY INDEED.

Nerf something that wasn't overpowered in PVP, and very useful and balanced in actual PvE Content (trials, DSA, Vet dungeons) just to keep people from grinding so fast???

Newsflash: Grinding wouldn't be necessary if the game's progression wasn't fundamentally broken.

But by all means, go ahead and ruin the parts of the game that people actually want to play. Nobody wanted to grind. They needed to grind.

But I wanted to heal pledges as a NB healer.
Oh well, F' me I guess. Let's have a laugh. (*)

I don't think anyone ever needed to grind, those who wanted to be max level faster than questing or PVP allowed chose to grind.

VoB was 17 seconds of basically being immune in PVE and pretty useful in PVP. We were in a situation where we had one ultimate, VoB the other one most likely Flawless Dawnbreaker to buff weapon damage.

I really see the changes as a way to make the choice of ultimate more compelling an not VoB or GTFO.

If you wanted to be a NB healer (couldn't tell if that was sarcasm or not) then surely the new improvements Soul Tether could be of interest to you?

No. If you're VR14 and you still have skills to level you're pretty much stuck grinding after the Vet XP changes.

Prior to the Vet XP change Cyrodil repeatables were viable for leveling skill, but all that's left now is grinding.

AlexDougherty · January 2015

Shunravi wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Light armor melee builds were ridiculous anyways, you shouldn't be in stabbing range when you're wearing nothing more than a glorified tshirt.

This ninja and his cloth armor would like to slap you for that.

Nope, Ninja's knew they were unarmoured.

But if you want viable cloth armour

pjwb16_ESO · January 2015

Didnt you read my post above ?

killedbyping · January 2015

One of the change which was NOT mentioned on patch notes -
Catalyst now gives 8 ultimate each time you drink the potion instead of increasing Potion effectiviness.
Just...... WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT ?!?!?!

Aeratus · January 2015

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Light armor melee builds were ridiculous anyways, you shouldn't be in stabbing range when you're wearing nothing more than a glorified tshirt.

This ninja and his cloth armor would like to slap you for that.

Nope, Ninja's knew they were unarmoured.

But if you want viable cloth armour

light armor (cloth) should be the stealthiest. If you don't see what I'm talking about, tell me which one of these in-game armor logically looks the stealthiest?

Also, ninja isn't unarmored. To the contrary, ninja is that third armor (light armor) shown above.