Legendary Mage v14 Sorcerer Duels - Arena Guild EU

Maulkin · January 2015

Well PTS is around the corner ladies and if ZOS keeps to it's promise to copy NA and EU characters over to PTS you can all have a go at eachother with your fully geard V14s.

How does that sound?

Sublime · January 2015

Unfortunately only one megaserver can have the templates on the PTS at once.

ToRelax · January 2015

Fusilero wrote: »

@Lhorion i know legend duelers and i dont think mage can beat them by just using 1 dps skill . i dont care if he beat sypher. i have beaten sypher some times and so he has. i think mages build is more for pve ....

The duels with Sypher are the only evidence we can come up with.
I don't think anyone on EU cares about your opinion on this, we know that Mage is our best Sorc, at least in 1vs1 .

And he is beating our duelers who have more than one attack skill as well... you are funny.

Poxheart · January 2015

Hmmmm. Watched most of the video and came to the conclusion that duels are boring.

DaggerfallTradeMasters · January 2015

Awesome video mage too bad i didn't get killed in it

Mumyo · January 2015

Fusilero wrote: »

@Lhorion i know legend duelers and i dont think mage can beat them by just using 1 dps skill . i dont care if he beat sypher. i have beaten sypher some times and so he has. i think mages build is more for pve ....

Legendary mages build is the most bursty and sustain damage i ever fought... never had so much pressure on me! No mage i met yet was that hardcore and didnt leave me a second to think. He cranked that stuff up. How stupid is that anyway to judge a build by having only 1 dps action. He is not very tanky btw. In case i win its due to the fact that i can lay lots of pressure on him aswell and it ends after ... Ah just watch the video.

LegendaryMage · January 2015

ESO_Metalxead wrote: »

Nice vid here

I think you need more addons, to make some thing's more clear and easy to figure out, and i am curious to see how you will win a proper DK with reflect. Or you just swap skill's all the time you face new enemies, so this is only 1v1 build?

p.s. i will make new sorc soon, and maybe i will be in EP.. soo we can fight each other

Yes, I have tried add-ons in the past and it's just my personal preference to rely on my visual ques and minimalistic interface. It's kinda easier for me to play like this than have all kinds of numbers floating around my screen (typical mmo interface), I'm more of an RPG fan.

I would love if you would make an EP char so we can finally fight!

No, I don't change skills/gear for any specific opponent. I always try to find the most optimal setup to let me deal with any class/build and that's an extra layer of difficulty that I like having. I use the same build for absolutely everything and everyone. On destro it's 'easier' as it's more about timing, while on s/b it required a bit of different play style depending on who I was up against. For example vs Nbs it would be suicide to block, while it would be perfect against templars etc.

Fusilero wrote: »

@Lhorion i know legend duelers and i dont think mage can beat them by just using 1 dps skill . i dont care if he beat sypher. i have beaten sypher some times and so he has. i think mages build is more for pve ....

Yeah, it works in pve too.

Who exactly are you by the way? Can I see some videos of your duels please, you seem like a very experienced dueler.

ToRelax wrote: »

Fusilero wrote: »

@Lhorion i know legend duelers and i dont think mage can beat them by just using 1 dps skill . i dont care if he beat sypher. i have beaten sypher some times and so he has. i think mages build is more for pve ....

The duels with Sypher are the only evidence we can come up with.
I don't think anyone on EU cares about your opinion on this, we know that Mage is our best Sorc, at least in 1vs1 .

And he is beating our duelers who have more than one attack skill as well... you are funny.

The problem here is that people often react weirdly when they see something unconventional.

For example, when I was first using pets in the beginning of our duels (my first attempt to try something 'different', way back in April) people didn't believe it would work until I killed them with it.

Next, when I started s/b setup people said I was insane and could never work as a sorcerer. How many s/b sorcs do you see these days? Maybe they are slowly going back to destro again, but a few months ago didn't it seem like every 2nd sorc was s/b in Cyrodiil? I personally 'instructed' via chats/mails at least 50+ sorcs on EU about my s/b setup, chances are I was the first one too.

Now after that, when I told them it's actually beatable with destro, they didn't believe me yet again. Then I demonstrated to them it's certainly possible and they started to believe.

Now I tell you this. The 'pve one dps skill' build is certainly viable and effective, even more so against s/b sorcs than any other classic spell damage caster/destro sorc build. Do you know why? Because you focus on sustain and weapon damage which is maxed out via a class skill. You can't do this with class spells as you will not have the same sustain and/or damage. There is no reason for you to use a destruction staff if you only focus on class spells for your damage. Ok, if you want those light/heavy attacks or some specific weapon skill, sure. But if not, you're better off via s/b.

It's ok, I'm used to people doubting anything I say.

DaggerfallTradeMasters · January 2015

that sorry though ^^ you can write a book

Lhorion · January 2015

@Sypher‌
There were a few fights at Allesia bridge against Legendary Mage a few days later, right? How did this fights end?

Blobsky · January 2015

Fusilero wrote: »

so ur only dps skill is crushing shock.... come duel legend duelers on the na server cause i dont think u could beat anyone just using crushing shock.

EU is definately stronger than NA duelwise / Top level - Sypher agreed so himself as he had some very tough fights with some of us experienced EU players =P

Blobsky · January 2015

Fusilero wrote: »

@Lhorion i know legend duelers and i dont think mage can beat them by just using 1 dps skill . i dont care if he beat sypher. i have beaten sypher some times and so he has. i think mages build is more for pve ....

My build only uses 1 DPS skill too. Legendary mage has fun vs me

! Nothing wrong with 1 DPS skill at all if your buffs,debuffs and CCs are well applied

*But I don't even fkin like dueling, 1vX ftw*

Blobsky · January 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

ESO_Metalxead wrote: »

Nice vid here

I think you need more addons, to make some thing's more clear and easy to figure out, and i am curious to see how you will win a proper DK with reflect. Or you just swap skill's all the time you face new enemies, so this is only 1v1 build?

p.s. i will make new sorc soon, and maybe i will be in EP.. soo we can fight each other

Yes, I have tried add-ons in the past and it's just my personal preference to rely on my visual ques and minimalistic interface. It's kinda easier for me to play like this than have all kinds of numbers floating around my screen (typical mmo interface), I'm more of an RPG fan.

I would love if you would make an EP char so we can finally fight!

No, I don't change skills/gear for any specific opponent. I always try to find the most optimal setup to let me deal with any class/build and that's an extra layer of difficulty that I like having. I use the same build for absolutely everything and everyone. On destro it's 'easier' as it's more about timing, while on s/b it required a bit of different play style depending on who I was up against. For example vs Nbs it would be suicide to block, while it would be perfect against templars etc.

Fusilero wrote: »

@Lhorion i know legend duelers and i dont think mage can beat them by just using 1 dps skill . i dont care if he beat sypher. i have beaten sypher some times and so he has. i think mages build is more for pve ....

Yeah, it works in pve too.

Who exactly are you by the way? Can I see some videos of your duels please, you seem like a very experienced dueler.

ToRelax wrote: »

Fusilero wrote: »

@Lhorion i know legend duelers and i dont think mage can beat them by just using 1 dps skill . i dont care if he beat sypher. i have beaten sypher some times and so he has. i think mages build is more for pve ....

The duels with Sypher are the only evidence we can come up with.
I don't think anyone on EU cares about your opinion on this, we know that Mage is our best Sorc, at least in 1vs1 .

And he is beating our duelers who have more than one attack skill as well... you are funny.

The problem here is that people often react weirdly when they see something unconventional.

For example, when I was first using pets in the beginning of our duels (my first attempt to try something 'different', way back in April) people didn't believe it would work until I killed them with it.

Next, when I started s/b setup people said I was insane and could never work as a sorcerer. How many s/b sorcs do you see these days? Maybe they are slowly going back to destro again, but a few months ago didn't it seem like every 2nd sorc was s/b in Cyrodiil? I personally 'instructed' via chats/mails at least 50+ sorcs on EU about my s/b setup, chances are I was the first one too.

Now after that, when I told them it's actually beatable with destro, they didn't believe me yet again. Then I demonstrated to them it's certainly possible and they started to believe.

Now I tell you this. The 'pve one dps skill' build is certainly viable and effective, even more so against s/b sorcs than any other classic spell damage caster/destro sorc build. Do you know why? Because you focus on sustain and weapon damage which is maxed out via a class skill. You can't do this with class spells as you will not have the same sustain and/or damage. There is no reason for you to use a destruction staff if you only focus on class spells for your damage. Ok, if you want those light/heavy attacks or some specific weapon skill, sure. But if not, you're better off via s/b.

It's ok, I'm used to people doubting anything I say.

I actually love your new build Legendary... It is SOOOOO like my one that i've used for 5months+ now. Only extremely minor differences / different CC, but you get the support of a blob! ^_^.

Also *** the pet build those fights were so long to get you down cos of that stupid bird -.-'

Also Also all hail shieldstack nerfs!

Derra · January 2015

I don´t think NA/EU have to fight about the top of the food chain in dueling. Both realms have some players that put a lot of time and effort into theorycrafting and build execution. I don´t think it matters which server you play on as you´re primary motivation does not relate to the enemies you face but you want to achieve maximum results in a given scenario.

What i like about @LegendaryMage ´s approach more than most other duellers (as i do so myself - so totally biased) is to seek an optimal build for every playing situation.
Switching skills for every opponent or even for every build i encounter in dueling is not fun (for me) as it is far easier to make counter builds in eso than an all around well performing build.

I still think the best sorc build i´ve encountered so far (given perfect execution) was @MagicaDeHex later build with ball lightning and destro staff. It was/is just perfect.

I´d use the sorc finisher too as it synergyses really well with CS for that matter. Takes away from sustain though.

Maulkin · January 2015

Some questions Aleks. Bear with me please

1) I can see how that works against s&b Sorcs/NBs as light attack weaving means only the light attack gets reflected while the Shock lands. If you have Immovable up the reflected light attack will do minimal damage and not stun you while your opponent is taking a lot of damage from Shock and wastes his stamina on Posture. He's soon on the back foot and in trouble.
2) I can also see how it works against Templars as Immovable cancels Eclipse.

However, on paper at least, you should run into trouble against Reflective Scales or Ball of Lightning. Do you use the same build against those opponents, or do you switch? And if you don't switch, do you find it works or not?

I can imagine a DK build with Immovable, Crushing Shock and Reflective Scales would have huge advantage against your build in the video, right? All attacks reflected, no stuns from Streak and no way to mitigate his Crushing Shock.

Cool vid as always man. I'm one of the 50+ adopters of your Sorc S&B build. Sooo much survivability in open-world Cyrodiil, a very worthwhile trade for the (noticeable) lack of burst imo. Especially when running around solo and you don't fancy dying much. I've had my highest kill streaks with that build. Much love

LegendaryMage · January 2015

Princess_Asgari wrote: »

The build is decent, im just confused why you wouldn't swap 1 skill for your execute that could have ended some of those fights much much sooner.

Ooops, sorry I missed this one.

I don't use a finisher for multiple reasons, one of them the damage being fairly low compared to my overall damage output.

Which skill would you consider switching for the finisher?

edit: I know it might not make sense if I just say it like this, so I'll just add that my spell damage is very low (93 or so I think). I'm not even sure if the finisher does more damage than my basic rotation. If it does, it's just slightly more probably.

edit2

Most top duelers won't allow themselves (most of the time anyway) to get 'finished'. So the idea is to pressure them to the point of no return, until they just don't have any more magicka/stamina to cheat death. If you notice, you'll see people getting 'executed' many times in duels but not actually dying. They shieldstack and heal up and in a second or two the finisher is worthless again.

Maulkin · January 2015

On another note, have you tried switching out Rapid Regen/ Mutagen for Degeneration (morph of Entropy)?

Since all your attacks are weapon (Light+CS) wouldn't that proc better healing for smaller cost in long fights?

Just a thought.

james_vestbergb16_ESO · January 2015

Just before the last dueling tournament on EU, I acctually proposed duelers should be locked to 1 build during the tournament.
Thought it would better reflect the "players" acctuall skill with his character rather then the skill he put into finding "counter builds" My Idea was considered stupid.... thx Arena

Maulkin · January 2015

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

Just before the last dueling tournament on EU, I acctually proposed duelers should be locked to 1 build during the tournament.
Thought it would better reflect the "players" acctuall skill with his character rather then the skill he put into finding "counter builds" My Idea was considered stupid.... thx Arena

Well two things....

First, coming up with counter builds requires experimentation and knowledge of skills, passives mechanics etc. That is also an indication of skill imo, skill is not just lightning quick button presses and perfectly executed rotations. It's that too, but not only that.

Secondly, if your build has a significant disadvantage against another build and you'r not allowed to switch builds, how does that fight better reflect player skill as you say? You could be better than that player but lose because his build is better for that particular combat.

The fairest fight is one where, knowing your opponent, you go out as best prepared for him as you can be and vice versa. He might have some surprises for you and you for him, so you'll have to adapt in-combat. That's my humble opinion at least.

LegendaryMage · January 2015

@mike.gaziotisb16 Sure buddy, always have time for you! Yeah, I'm glad you had fun, it was fun for me theorycrafting it as well.

To answer in order:

1) That's what happens, yes. S/B sorcs are not really a problem for me, some take longer to take down depending on how much stamina they have or regen/block cost reductions etc.

2) Yes, it cancels it entirely. Ball of light is interesting, I actually don't have problems fighting these types of sorcs (of course, I could get that morph too if I wanted to make their lives harder).

The usual problem (for them) is that most sorcs will move too far away from it. They need to stay very close to it and make it so that I'm not between the ball of light and the sorc. I usually streak with them, follow them and position myself to hopefully be able to hit them even if this is up. Doesn't work always (sometimes I hit the light behind me somehow) and prolongs fights a bit, but certainly doable as mistakes start to creep in.

As for DKs, maybe @Lhorion or Dusk could give their input, I'm pretty much doing the same that I've done in my fight with Rossh in the video for example.

Sometimes when I'm not paying attention I burn myself quite a bit with it (high dmg + 30% more damage on reflect is painful as you can imagine) but good timing sorts this out 99% of the time. If I mess up, I fight a harder fight and pay the price.

Yes, they could use immovable with scales and resto heavy attacks but then blocking is pointless or they will run out of stamina (magicka DKs) and they won't be able to kill me as I will also recharge magicka at the same time so we can go on forever like that. Immovable is not cheap on magicka builds and blocking is just too good to miss out for DKs.

3) Rapid regen is reliable, when I use degeneration I have to make sure they have no shields and it doesn't proc with crushing shock. If it did, I'd use it for sure and that would be a sick combo with quick syphon. But it would be total balance disaster so I hope they don't make it work with crushing shock. Nobody would be able to deal with that kind of damage and self heal at the same time.

james_vestbergb16_ESO · January 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

Just before the last dueling tournament on EU, I acctually proposed duelers should be locked to 1 build during the tournament.
Thought it would better reflect the "players" acctuall skill with his character rather then the skill he put into finding "counter builds" My Idea was considered stupid.... thx Arena

Well two things....

First, coming up with counter builds requires experimentation and knowledge of skills, passives mechanics etc. That is also an indication of skill imo, skill is not just lightning quick button presses and perfectly executed rotations. It's that too, but not only that.

Secondly, if your build has a significant disadvantage against another build and you'r not allowed to switch builds, how does that fight better reflect player skill as you say? You could be better than that player but lose because his build is better for that particular combat.

The fairest fight is one where, knowing your opponent, you go out as best prepared for him as you can be and vice versa. He might have some surprises for you and you for him, so you'll have to adapt in-combat. That's my humble opinion at least.

But like Mage mentioned, trying to find a build that works against any opponent involves skill aswell.

So instead of trying to find several counter builds, all duelers are forced to try and find a build they think will work against any opponent. That would go for any class you face, they will all have to sport a build they feel can take on any opponent, so it would cancel out ppl trying to have a "counter" build, because then that build will most likely be very weak againt another build, and they are locked to that build.

The same skill of finding several "counter" builds would be involved in finding a single build would you not agree?

LegendaryMage · January 2015

@Blobsky Thanks man, next time I run into you in Cyro, we'll hopefully do more than chatting.

olsborg · January 2015

Kinda grew bored of dueling after a while, maybe it will be fun for a while again after 1.6, just to test *** out:)

Derra · January 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

james_vestbergb16_ESO wrote: »

Just before the last dueling tournament on EU, I acctually proposed duelers should be locked to 1 build during the tournament.
Thought it would better reflect the "players" acctuall skill with his character rather then the skill he put into finding "counter builds" My Idea was considered stupid.... thx Arena

Well two things....

First, coming up with counter builds requires experimentation and knowledge of skills, passives mechanics etc. That is also an indication of skill imo, skill is not just lightning quick button presses and perfectly executed rotations. It's that too, but not only that.

Secondly, if your build has a significant disadvantage against another build and you'r not allowed to switch builds, how does that fight better reflect player skill as you say? You could be better than that player but lose because his build is better for that particular combat.

The fairest fight is one where, knowing your opponent, you go out as best prepared for him as you can be and vice versa. He might have some surprises for you and you for him, so you'll have to adapt in-combat. That's my humble opinion at least.

I don´t think it involves any skill at all to design counter builds given the time we are into the game. People know what skills do by now.
If your build is at a significant disadvantage against sth. you built a *** build imho

ToRelax · January 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

3) Rapid regen is reliable, when I use degeneration I have to make sure they have no shields and it doesn't proc with crushing shock. If it did, I'd use it for sure and that would be a sick combo with quick syphon. But it would be total balance disaster so I hope they don't make it work with crushing shock. Nobody would be able to deal with that kind of damage and self heal at the same time.

(Degeneration procs on all light and heavy attacks only, including Overload)

Keep in mind the impenetrable change, with Critical Surge you get higher selfheal than Degeneration if you have about 40% crit or more (given Degeneration woud be able to proc on all attacks, wich it doesn't).

Also since Surge is a very strong weapon damage buff at the moment, it will probably become much weaker in 1.6 with the minor/major buff system. And if there will be any other major (I suppose) Spell damage buff, you could use it instead of Surge anyway.

Well, let's see about that on PTS, we will soon have much more insight anyway

.

DisgracefulMind · January 2015

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Fusilero wrote: »

so ur only dps skill is crushing shock.... come duel legend duelers on the na server cause i dont think u could beat anyone just using crushing shock.

Thank you for your opinion.

@Germtrocity I wanted to come to NA many months ago but I was too unorganized and simply didn't sadly. I wish I could fight your duelers as well.

Would love to see the two of you fight.

Maybe one day in a perfect ESO world it could happen

cozmon3c_ESO · January 2015

So timing is your answer for full reflect dk's? What if it's up the entire fight, do you just bolt around twisting your thumbs?
If you want to be ready to fight anyone in Cyrodiil you must use sword and board reflect because of how many dk's are on the battlefield, NA atleast. Now I dont really duel head to head, and the person above me that said people have a build to fight all opponents is not true, they swap out skills depending on the class they are fighting.
I like the on the fly, ready to fight anyone in any situation on the battlefield, and they don't have time to start swapping out abilities just to beat me. Yes your build is effective against everything that doest use RS. But RS is everywhere and 1.6 won't change that meta for 1v1's.

Dalglish · January 2015

If a DK reflected during the whole fight in 1vs1, he wouldn't have enough mana to be offensive.

cozmon3c_ESO · January 2015

Dalglish wrote: »

If a DK reflected during the whole fight in 1vs1, he wouldn't have enough mana to be offensive.

That would be a long and boring fight

ToRelax · January 2015

cozmon3c_ESO wrote: »

So timing is your answer for full reflect dk's? What if it's up the entire fight, do you just bolt around twisting your thumbs?
If you want to be ready to fight anyone in Cyrodiil you must use sword and board reflect because of how many dk's are on the battlefield, NA atleast. Now I dont really duel head to head, and the person above me that said people have a build to fight all opponents is not true, they swap out skills depending on the class they are fighting.
I like the on the fly, ready to fight anyone in any situation on the battlefield, and they don't have time to start swapping out abilities just to beat me. Yes your build is effective against everything that doest use RS. But RS is everywhere and 1.6 won't change that meta for 1v1's.

I believe every good player could come up with a build to counter a specific build in so far, that it can't kill him in 1v1. But if a DK is having scales up 100% of the time, who is on the defense ^^ ? If he goes offensive while still having scales up all the time, he will eventually run oom and has to decide wether to go defensive again or let down refelctive scales for a while.

It may be that one could stack enough cost reduction and magicka regen on a DK to build a similar build with reflect. Even if it would work, it would be a special counter build and not work against most common builds you encounter in Cyrodiil or against other dueling builds.

Maulkin · January 2015

Derra wrote: »

I don´t think it involves any skill at all to design counter builds given the time we are into the game. People know what skills do by now.
If your build is at a significant disadvantage against sth. you built a *** build imho

Hhmm, I kindly disagree and I'll offer an obvious example.

Is Mage's build ***, because he's at a distinct disadvantage to a DK Destro build? Cause in my eyes it certainly is, he'll need to play and time his attacks much much better to beat somebody who could be an inferior player with a simple rotation: Immovable, Scales, Crushy x 3 . I don't think so, it's not crap build.

Working out counter builds is half the fun for me. I appreciate others might feel differently.