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Zenimax, regarding your stance on "Convenience Items"...
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daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Consider this:
I got the achievement for 50 veteran pledges today. That's 50 days doing veteran dungeons with a gold key. I still haven't managed to get Valkyn Skoria's shoulders (light, divines) from the golden undaunted chest.
Would someone eventually be able to spend unlimited amounts of cash in the shop to try and get that one gold undaunted key that gets them this item? In the end, it's a "time saver" option - pay up and don't do pledges. But it's also a lottery and an endless money pit and everything I loathe about microtransactions. If ZOS pull a stunt like this, they can kiss my pale Altmer behind goodbye.1 -
Vikestart✭✭✭I don't see the problem as long as the boosts stay small, like max 10% XP or something. At the end of the day, you won't notice the difference as to whether a complete stranger uses an XP boost to progress faster or not. It doesn't affect you. You won't know about it
Also, even if someone can buy faster progression, it doesn't make them a better player. It will still take skill to put together decent builds, and master them in action, which is what will matter in the competitive parts like Cyrodiil anyway.
Boosts that effect your character's stats on the other hand.... That will be the last straw.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't see the problem as long as the boosts stay small, like max 10% XP or something. At the end of the day, you won't notice the difference as to whether a complete stranger uses an XP boost to progress faster or not. It doesn't affect you. You won't know about it
Also, even if someone can buy faster progression, it doesn't make them a better player. It will still take skill to put together decent builds, and master them in action, which is what will matter in the competitive parts like Cyrodiil anyway.
Boosts that effect your character's stats on the other hand.... That will be the last straw.
So you are fine with getting benefits for $$$, essentially corruption, because "it's just a small bonus"?
You must really value your time & effort, when you think it's fine when other players just purchase their way through that.
You must really have a great self worth, if you're fine being essentially a 2nd grade citizen to credit card warriors, weaker in everything from gold to xp gain (which applies to Champion Points as mentioned earlier).
And how long until they start pushing the boundaries again, introducing bigger & bigger "boosters" you can buy?
Then again, you might not be a competitive player who cares about these things.
You are not entitled to more of anything, especially things that affect other players, unless you earn it by playing.
That's what makes me sick of these F2P/B2P scams, the fact that some people are able to "buy progression" & make themselves better by dispending $$$.
What kind of pathetic person does that, I have no idea & I have no intention of sticking around to see it happen.Edited by DDuke on January 24, 2015 2:27AM4 -
Vikestart✭✭✭
Yes, I'm fine with it as long as the bonus is small.So you are fine with getting benefits for $$$, essentially corruption, because "it's just a small bonus"?
]You must really value your time & effort, when you think it's fine when other players just purchase their way through that.
Noone is buyng their way through anything. They will be able to progress slightly faster. For some people that might not have that much time to play, this is a great thing. Noone is talking about an instant level 50 button here.
See above.You must really have a great self worth, if you're fine being essentially a 2nd grade citizen to credit card warriors, weaker in everything from gold to xp gain (which applies to Champion Points as mentioned earlier).
Not everyone has as much time on their hands as me, and presumably you. Some people have families, jobs and barely have time to play. For them it's probably great to have this option available.
Again, like I said, if that happens, I would leave.And how long until they start pushing the boundaries again, introducing bigger & bigger "boosters" you can buy?
Don't assume things about others. It's not constructive.Then again, you might not be a competitive player who cares about these things.
Time is like money. Some people have a lot of time, some people don't. It's the same with money.You are not entitled to more of anything, especially things that affect other players, unless you earn it by playing.
Noone is talking about a huge boost here. It's simply an alternative for people to progress slightly faster.
You don't get better by buying XP boosts. You just progress faster. Becoming a better player takes a lot more than that.That's what makes me sick of these F2P/B2P scams, the fact that some people are able to "buy progression" & make themselves better by dispending $$$.
Noone is forcing you to stayWhat kind of pathetic person does that, I have no idea & I have no intention of sticking around to see it happen.
Also, you have to understand that ESO is past this point already. The game is going Buy-to-Play and convience items like XP boosts are bound to be part of the game's future. You are free to leave, but these complaint threads are not going to change that. This is already set in stone.Edited by Vikestart on January 24, 2015 2:48AM1 -
eisberg✭✭✭I don't see the problem as long as the boosts stay small, like max 10% XP or something. At the end of the day, you won't notice the difference as to whether a complete stranger uses an XP boost to progress faster or not. It doesn't affect you. You won't know about it
Also, even if someone can buy faster progression, it doesn't make them a better player. It will still take skill to put together decent builds, and master them in action, which is what will matter in the competitive parts like Cyrodiil anyway.
Boosts that effect your character's stats on the other hand.... That will be the last straw.
So you are fine with getting benefits for $$$, essentially corruption, because "it's just a small bonus"?
You must really value your time & effort, when you think it's fine when other players just purchase their way through that.
You must really have a great self worth, if you're fine being essentially a 2nd grade citizen to credit card warriors, weaker in everything from gold to xp gain (which applies to Champion Points as mentioned earlier).
And how long until they start pushing the boundaries again, introducing bigger & bigger "boosters" you can buy?
Then again, you might not be a competitive player who cares about these things.
You are not entitled to more of anything, especially things that affect other players, unless you earn it by playing.
That's what makes me sick of these F2P/B2P scams, the fact that some people are able to "buy progression" & make themselves better by dispending $$$.
What kind of pathetic person does that, I have no idea & I have no intention of sticking around to see it happen.
Actually my self worth is so great, that if someone can progress 10% faster than I can in a computer game, it is insignificant to my life, it doesn't even matter, not important at all.
I questions one own self worth if they let something as silly as this in a game bother them so much.Edited by eisberg on January 24, 2015 2:49AM0 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭Just curious, how would you feel if you had a co-worker at work with equal skill and time in the company, meh just make it a perfect clone, and this co-worker got a 10% raise, 10% more vacation time, and 10% more break time all for taking brownies to the boss every week?
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"4 -
Vikestart✭✭✭Just curious, how would you feel if you had a co-worker at work with equal skill and time in the company, meh just make it a perfect clone, and this co-worker got a 10% raise, 10% more vacation time, and 10% more break time all for taking brownies to the boss every week?
That sounds awfully realistic and relevant
Edited by Vikestart on January 24, 2015 2:58AM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Yes, I'm fine with it as long as the bonus is small.So you are fine with getting benefits for $$$, essentially corruption, because "it's just a small bonus"?
You must really value your time & effort, when you think it's fine when other players just purchase their way through that.
Noone is buyng their way through anything. They will be able to progress slightly faster. For some people that might not have that much time to play, this is a great thing. Noone is talking about an instant level 50 button here.
Heh, "slightly". That's like saying "oh I wasn't drinking officer, I just took a small sip".
If people want to progress faster, then they play more (or more efficiently).
If they can't do that, then that only means the game will last longer for them. Good for them.
See above.
Not everyone has as much time on their hands as me, and presumably you. Some people have families, jobs and barely have time to play. For them it's probably great to have this option available.[/quote]
And I don't really care if some people have families, jobs or time.
Those people can spend time with those activities, people like me make the willing sacrifice of not participating in them in favor of gaming, and shouldn't suffer more for that.
I'm sure they care much about you or I leaving their cash grab.
Seems like my description was quite accurate then.
Time is like money. Some people have a lot of time, some people don't. It's the same with money.You are not entitled to more of anything, especially things that affect other players, unless you earn it by playing.
Noone is talking about a huge boost here. It's simply an alternative for people to progress slightly faster.
Time is nothing like money. Time is the only thing money cannot buy in life, which is the exact reason this shouldn't happen in MMOs either. Someone spending money to bypass effort means that they've spent their time better than I have, because $$$. This is wrong, and I still don't understand how you can't see it.
And again, it doesn't matter how big the boost is. It's something you don't have (but which would benefit you) if you don't pay $$$.
What you fail to see is that defending them only encourages ZO$ to add more of them (and stronger versions).
Then what prevents another "good player" from purchasing these boosts & gaining an advantage over me?
Oh right, nothing.
And yes you do get better with XP boosts, since you gain more Champion Points as well (which take directly affect your character's power).
And less subscribers/players sure must be good for the game.
Regardless, I've already cancelled my subscription after learning this game is going the GW2 route with update frequency & quality, so your advice comes late. I'm sure "boosters" will fit a game like that, since there's no competitive players (or many people at end game at all) around to protest against them.Edited by DDuke on January 24, 2015 3:06AM3 -
eisberg✭✭✭Just curious, how would you feel if you had a co-worker at work with equal skill and time in the company, meh just make it a perfect clone, and this co-worker got a 10% raise, 10% more vacation time, and 10% more break time all for taking brownies to the boss every week?
This is only a game, insignificant to everything else that is actually important. Your analogy up there is irrelevant.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't see the problem as long as the boosts stay small, like max 10% XP or something. At the end of the day, you won't notice the difference as to whether a complete stranger uses an XP boost to progress faster or not. It doesn't affect you. You won't know about it
Also, even if someone can buy faster progression, it doesn't make them a better player. It will still take skill to put together decent builds, and master them in action, which is what will matter in the competitive parts like Cyrodiil anyway.
Boosts that effect your character's stats on the other hand.... That will be the last straw.
So you are fine with getting benefits for $$$, essentially corruption, because "it's just a small bonus"?
You must really value your time & effort, when you think it's fine when other players just purchase their way through that.
You must really have a great self worth, if you're fine being essentially a 2nd grade citizen to credit card warriors, weaker in everything from gold to xp gain (which applies to Champion Points as mentioned earlier).
And how long until they start pushing the boundaries again, introducing bigger & bigger "boosters" you can buy?
Then again, you might not be a competitive player who cares about these things.
You are not entitled to more of anything, especially things that affect other players, unless you earn it by playing.
That's what makes me sick of these F2P/B2P scams, the fact that some people are able to "buy progression" & make themselves better by dispending $$$.
What kind of pathetic person does that, I have no idea & I have no intention of sticking around to see it happen.
Actually my self worth is so great, that if someone can progress 10% faster than I can in a computer game, it is insignificant to my life, it doesn't even matter, not important at all.
I questions one own self worth if they let something as silly as this in a game bother them so much.
Go spread your anti-gamer bs elsewhere.Just curious, how would you feel if you had a co-worker at work with equal skill and time in the company, meh just make it a perfect clone, and this co-worker got a 10% raise, 10% more vacation time, and 10% more break time all for taking brownies to the boss every week?
This is only a game, insignificant to everything else that is actually important. Your analogy up there is irrelevant.
If video games are so insignificant to your life, what are you doing here?
Go do things you enjoy better and let the people who are passionate about gaming be passionate about it.
I don't go around football fields telling people how what they're doing is insignificant and useless.Edited by DDuke on January 24, 2015 3:10AM3 -
Vikestart✭✭✭*snip*
Sigh...
What it boils down to is that this game is already going Buy-to-Play, the convenience items are coming, whether you or me like that or not. There's no going back now, so these discussions are quite pointless really
Progression boosts are not worth the effort and energy to discuss here. They're not Pay-to-Win in the strict sense of things, since you won't feel the difference. You don't know whether the person you're facing in PvP has used an XP boost or not. It's not going to affect you.
There is a fine line between that and Pay-to-Win which is very distinct and very noticable in competitive environments like PvP.
For what it's worth. I would have wanted that the game stay subscription based, but now that it's going Buy-to-Play, we all need to adjust our expectations.Edited by Vikestart on January 24, 2015 3:14AM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭*snip*
Sigh...
What it boils down to is that this game is already going Buy-to-Play, the convenience items are coming, whether you or me like that. There's no going back no, so these discussions are quite pointless really
Progression boosts are not worth the effort and energy to discuss here. They're not Pay-to-Win in the strict sense of things, since you won't feel the difference. You don't know whether the person you're facing in PvP has used an XP boost or not. It's not going to affect you.
There is a fine line between that and Pay-to-Win which is very distinct and very noticable in competitive environments like PvP.
Kind of you to form the general definition of P2W.
Here's mine: if something helps you win more than others, it is pay 2 win.
Having more XP, gold, AP etc indirectly helps you win more, and thus is P2W.
You might argue "well, it's not as pay2win as these other things", and you'd be right.
You might not notice it, but you'd have to partake in that activity if you wanted to compete in the highest levels of play.
They are still P2W, and this is where many people draw the line when it comes to B2P/F2P MMOs.
As you said, they are likely to come. As long as people keep tolerating them, to which I'm seeing no end.Edited by DDuke on January 24, 2015 3:18AM2 -
Tempest✭✭Xp boosters will be added into the game just like every other f2p/b2p mmorpg out there even Gw2 has xp boosters so yeah....0
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Mograineb16_ESO✭✭✭Mograineb16_ESO wrote: »You guys are finding problems where there is none.
So you are fine with other people being stronger, richer & able to skip tasks that require effort/skill because they spent $$$?
You are fine with becoming a 2nd grade citizen in this MMO, compared to the credit card warriors that get more of everything than you because $$$?
I wonder, are you one of these credit card warriors?
Even with a xp boost and people get more champion points, its not gonna be a big deal. The more points you spend, the less effective it becomes, so you might have spent 25 points and have 5% boost to a stat, while the booster guy have spent 100 points and got a 7% boost to stat.
And your time invested has no worth to anyone.. but yourself. So you can be butthurt about others skipping what you had/have to do. It really doesnt bother me at all if someone skips what ive already done or have to do.
Edited by Mograineb16_ESO on January 24, 2015 6:06AM2 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭clocksstoppe wrote: »well you see, the problem is that time and effort is the only thing of value you can possibly sell in an mmo.
houses... they can sell houses.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Considering there will no longer be an endgame worth reaching faster, exp boosters might indeed be meaningless ...
But how some people can be fine with such boosters just makes me shake my head. This is an RPG folks, progression is an integral part of the genre. Skipping or removing progression immediately changes the nature of the game. At that point, selling max level characters is just a difference in quantity, not quality.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »If subs didnt hold an automatic 10% boost to XP Gain, Gold Gain and Crafting. Id probably be angry as an Ogre here. But I guess knowing subs will have built in boosts themselves Im not too upset with the idea of boosts in the Cash Shop. My only concern is if these boosts are better than the sub holders boosts. Then Ill probably have some things to say that will probably need multiple proofings before hitting the Post Comment button.
In other words, it is ok to buy your advantage via a sub, but not via a cash shop? I think that's where we differ.
Actually I was saying that the sub advantage makes cash shop boosts okay in my opinion*. I dont see where I made a mistake in how I represented that in the quoted comment.
*As long as Cash Shop Boosts are not better then sub boost.
Take as reference people who buy no advantages at all (that is, people without a sub who don't buy at the cash shop either). By subbing you're doing to them what you don't want them to do to you via the cash shop. The means may be different but it amounts to exactly the same thing: buying an advantage others have to spend time playing to get.
IMHO, by subbing you certainly forfeit the moral right to object against the principle. The only thing left is to complain about the quantity and that's a slippery slope.
Edit: don't take that as an attack of some sort btw. It's how I see it and that's what I am considering for myself. It's an argument, and what people do with it is entirely their business.
If you buy no advantages at all. Thats your choice. But Id argue that since youre only providing the company with the least amount of money to play their game. You forfeit the financial right to object to them in the store.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
Jennifur_Vultee✭✭✭✭✭It is said that if a kagouti steps into a boiling pool, he will leap out immediately to avoid harm.
But if the kagouti is standing in a pool, and a wizard slowly raises the temperature, measure by measure, to boiling, the kagouti will calmly stand in place until he is boiled.
Thus we see that we must be alert not only to the obvious danger, but also to the subtle degrees by which change may result in danger.
- The Homilies of Blessed Almalexia
I believe perhaps the Lady Almalexia has warned us against incrementally getting accustomed to things changing more and more for the worse no matter how slightly they do so. A cash shop is a slippery slope that can over time be filled with items that are more and more obviously advantageous to players willing to pay the cash for more convenience. That 10% exp boost may give way to a 25% or even later a 50% boost...where do you draw the line at it becoming pay to win? Why are so many willing to stand in the pond that is the cash shop while the mage raises the heat?
Edited by Jennifur_Vultee on January 24, 2015 9:30AM"Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters." – Albert Einstein
Treat a customer fairly and they will remember you. Treat a customer poorly and they never forget.
Imperial City: Zerg, gank or die.4 -
JamilaRaj✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't see the problem as long as the boosts stay small, like max 10% XP or something. At the end of the day, you won't notice the difference as to whether a complete stranger uses an XP boost to progress faster or not. It doesn't affect you. You won't know about it
Also, even if someone can buy faster progression, it doesn't make them a better player. It will still take skill to put together decent builds, and master them in action, which is what will matter in the competitive parts like Cyrodiil anyway.
Boosts that effect your character's stats on the other hand.... That will be the last straw.
The bonus is by no way small, because if you put it into context, where very, very few % bonuses to whatever in this game are in two digit range, it's clearly out of place.
Also, you have inadvertently proved that it indeed makes someone a better player precisely because "it will still take skill to put together decent builds, and master them in action", because to do that, to try out builds and learn to play them, one will need time (and gold to respec) and paying players will have 10% of it more available, if not more, depending on how much they'll spend on "conveniece, time saving only" stuff.
Generally speaking, there do not have to be any blatant overpowered pay 2 win items in the cash shop to throw the game off balance, becasue anything in the game is function of time invested. If sub/cash shop saves time for paying people, these people are buying advantage over other players.1 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭grimjim398 wrote: »If you buy no advantages at all. Thats your choice. But Id argue that since youre only providing the company with the least amount of money to play their game. You forfeit the financial right to object to them in the store.
A very short summary of the "pay to win" philosophy.
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!2 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »It is said that if a kagouti steps into a boiling pool, he will leap out immediately to avoid harm.
But if the kagouti is standing in a pool, and a wizard slowly raises the temperature, measure by measure, to boiling, the kagouti will calmly stand in place until he is boiled.
Thus we see that we must be alert not only to the obvious danger, but also to the subtle degrees by which change may result in danger.
- The Homilies of Blessed Almalexia
I believe perhaps the Lady Almalexia has warned us against incrementally getting accustomed to things changing more and more for the worse no matter how slightly they do so. A cash shop is a slippery slope that can over time be filled with items that are more and more obviously advantageous to players willing to pay the cash for more convenience. That 10% exp boost may give way to a 25% or even later a 50% boost...where do you draw the line at it becoming pay to win? Why are so many willing to stand in the pond that is the cash shop while the mage raises the heat?
Players wanted Skyrim with friends, and that's exactly what they are getting. Including the in-game console to give themselves and their buddy max level to trash some draguns, lul.
No challenge, no progression, no effort - just a flat open world to explore and do some mildly entertaining quests.
ESO.setav Play2Win 100Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.1 -
SLy_Kyti✭✭✭✭This was posted in the reddit AUA today, and I believe it warrants attention.
[snip]
Do you respect at all the time & effort that your more dedicated player base has put & continues to put into the game?
Why are you even considering items that allow people with $$$ to bypass all that effort spent?
Time & effort should never be able to be bought.
That's a spit in the face of everyone who goes in through the effort to achieve those things.[snip]
Discuss.
To return to the OP's message....
The soul gems you get in the Crown shop will AUTOLEVEL, therefore be better than anything you can get in the game. Say goodbye to this method of income if you fill soul gems, say good bye to most soul gems in stores [edited to add- if this doesn't affect you gentle reader because you get yours from drops please refrain from adding to the discussion confusion by saying ---dood I get mine from drops what's the big deal]
The Potions offered by the Crown Shop will AUTO LEVEL therefore (again) be better than crafted or in game items. This puts Alchemist's out of work, Gatherers out of work, Upsets a large part of the game economy and guild stores. It's ludicrous.
The Gear Styles (essentially now Costumes) offered in the store are not items that have a crafting chapter (like dwemer) or book (like racials now), You can never hope to make those. Not available anywhere in game.
The 10% to XP was offered by the Ring to Mara bonus (a one time bonus) as a perk for buying a special edition game. Now by subbing (only) you can have a bonus forever without dragging a guildy or friend along. Note to noobies: Ring of Mara bonus rarely ever worked as the 10% was bugged, and is still bugged for my guildies at present. Bottom line is that this is/was available in other ways.
The 10% reduction in Crafting Research times This is a HUGE deal to me as I have slaved over timers since April. My real life for some time revolved (as did others I know) getting and setting my research....
...I ALSO spent another skill point in each crafter to further reduce the time when Nirnhoned was released. Thats 3 skill points spent. This notion alone (the 10% reduction) is a major gripe of mine and so dang unfair to those of us who have put such efforts into it...
...It was a HUGE slap in the face of Crafters when you could find Green level appropriate items in barrels. There went HALF of our client base. The reason many of us spent the time to research crafting in the first place. To be able to sustain ourselves financially in Cyrodill or PVE. Now I dungeon grind, rarely quest & forget RvR.
I have more to say but wanted to stay on topic. So to conclude
Yes, its a slippery slope to open a shop OR turn Subscriptions to shop money. So, when the Game shop seeks to compete with its player base. Thats when I get upset. I am a passionate player. I have invested months into this game and my crafting. I could have played something else. I became a fangrrl. Now I have been betrayed by ZOS, cast aside for console lovers. I'll get over it. I won't forget it though...now I am off to play some more Landmark.
Master Crafter: Almost all motifs
GM~ Blades of Old Tamriel NA/AD
Member~ NZAD
Member~ Blades of Vengeance NA/AD
-Tamriel College -Amazing Deals of Nirn-
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Iago✭✭✭✭✭I agree and as far as crafting goes I personally have wasted a few hundred hours doing it..
hopefully some good will come of thisThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
Mograineb16_ESO✭✭✭
I disagree, mmorpg never has a good and exciting story as single player rpgs imo. Therefor I only play mmorpg for the endgame pvp.Considering there will no longer be an endgame worth reaching faster, exp boosters might indeed be meaningless ...
But how some people can be fine with such boosters just makes me shake my head. This is an RPG folks, progression is an integral part of the genre. Skipping or removing progression immediately changes the nature of the game. At that point, selling max level characters is just a difference in quantity, not quality.
If they started selling lvl50 characters, would be fine. How does it even effect you the slightest. Leveling is boring for me and for others.
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Dragath✭✭✭✭
exactly, and why not?clocksstoppe wrote: »well you see, the problem is that time and effort is the only thing of value you can possibly sell in an mmo.
its a game.
if people want to enjoy the endgame content without beeing able to play x hours a day, let them.
dont be selfish.
as long as there is no difference in the outcome, i am fine with the fact that you can either invest your time or your money in the game.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
exactly, and why not?clocksstoppe wrote: »well you see, the problem is that time and effort is the only thing of value you can possibly sell in an mmo.
its a game.
if people want to enjoy the endgame content without beeing able to play x hours a day, let them.
dont be selfish.
as long as there is no difference in the outcome, i am fine with the fact that you can either invest your time or your money in the game.
And yet, there will be people who invest both and will always be stronger & better than you because of that.
Basic consumer rights dictate we have a right for healthy environment.
Would you call it a healthy environment, when people who spend $$$ will always have an advantage over people who don't?Edited by DDuke on January 24, 2015 2:53PM2 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭
you mean, like in real life?Would you call it a healthy environment, when people who spend $$$ will always have an advantage over people who don't?
how i see it:
playing the game is an investment of time.
earning money in real life is an investment of time.
if people are willing to invest double the amount of time, they should be rewarded for that, why not?
if someone invests 4 hours and x dollars worth 4 hours a day, feel free to invest 8 hours a day playing, to be on par. its basically the same.
and just to be clear, they wont implement items in their shop that are better than everything else you can get in game, so there is no need to invest money for better stuff. time investment will always be the important part.
if you cant invest as much time (or money, cause time=money) as other players do, then you will fall behind.
exactly the thing you propose, but the other way around, so dont complain.
personally, i dont have any problem with that. if someone enjoys his hobby, he can invest as much money as he likes to. not my part to judge that.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
you mean, like in real life?Would you call it a healthy environment, when people who spend $$$ will always have an advantage over people who don't?
how i see it:
playing the game is an investment of time.
earning money in real life is an investment of time.
if people are willing to invest double the amount of time, they should be rewarded for that, why not?
if someone invests 4 hours and x dollars worth 4 hours a day, feel free to invest 8 hours a day playing, to be on par. its basically the same.
and just to be clear, they wont implement items in their shop that are better than everything else you can get in game, so there is no need to invest money for better stuff. time investment will always be the important part.
if you cant invest as much time (or money, cause time=money) as other players do, then you will fall behind.
exactly the thing you propose, but the other way around, so dont complain.
personally, i dont have any problem with that. if someone enjoys his hobby, he can invest as much money as he likes to. not my part to judge that.
Let's say you play football. You can't dispense $$$ to play in better teams, or become a better player.
What if you're a politician? You can't dispense $$$ to get into position of higher power.
In real life, achieving special benefits for $$$ is called corruption, and it is illegal in most countries.0 -
Dragath✭✭✭✭you are wrong in both of your examples.
football teams need money for a lot of stuff. a lot of the stuff that makes the difference between a good amateur and a pro is money related.
same goes for politicians, do you really think money doesnt play a role in all that stuff? do you really think all the campaigns are just because they have fun doing them?
in real life, money is important.
Edited by Dragath on January 24, 2015 3:28PM0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭you are wrong in both of your examples.
football teams need money for a lot of stuff. a lot of the stuff that makes the difference between a good amateur and a pro is money related.
same goes for politicians, do you really think money doesnt play a role in all that stuff? do you really think all the campaigns are just because the do it for fun?
in real life, money is important.
In football, the difference between a "good amateur" & a pro is skill, and skill alone.
Money doesn't make them better players. It might get them WAGs & cars, but it does not dictate how well they play.
In fact, it is the other way around. How well they play usually dictates how much money they earn.
Not unlike eSports if we're looking for a closer example.
But you are right about politics, it was a bad example
What I meant by that is, you can't pay money & expect it alone to have an effect on the outcome (that's when it becomes illegal).
Demographic standards have to be uphold, which I don't really see happening (or even possible) with "XP boosters" etc1
