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ZOS - Tone Down Your Enthusiasm
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IceDread✭✭✭As soon as someone on the forum points out flaws, they get insulted by a lot of forum people... atm thou, perhaps they are down from a tko b.c. of this, but I believe they'll be back soon and start their mantra about zos being great instead of looking at the truth, all the flaws there has been at release, how many changes they've had to do to get the game into a decent state etc.1 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Basically what happened is the game failed and they didn't have the subscriber base to support the game going forward. They've fallen back on the b2p (future f2p) cash shop model to sustain the business. I understand they can't come out and say this, but sticking a message on the launcher saying something along the lines of "Great News, we're going b2p, this is good and what you always wanted" is totally insulting. Its like politicians saying "its the right thing to do", its like they try to brainwash you into acceptance and not to question their decision.5 -
Naivefanboi✭✭✭✭Instead of coming out in an honest and forthright manner, everything I read from ZOS about these changes has been "rainbows, sunshine, and candy." They talk as though they are doing all of us a favor. Where is the candidness? The assurances? The pow wow time?
It's insulting to our intelligence when you go overboard trying to spin something.
One of my high school coaches had a saying I feel best fits this situation:
"Stop pis**ng on my face and telling me it's rain"
its the standard pattern, rift,swtor, ect lots of people have seen this whole dog and pony show before. all we can do now is sit back and enjoy the show.4 -
Naivefanboi✭✭✭✭I don't get why people bring up the 'They promised it would be this payment model' thing
I bet that was what they fully intended...back then when they said that. But stuff changes. Consumer demands are always shifting. You either adapt to what is needed to help your game or you follow the route Warhammer online went. If they thought staying sub based was the best thing for the game, they would have stayed that way.
I get it, they said something and went back on it. But wouldn't you go back on your word if you knew it was the right decisions to help your game move forward. Warhammer online was stubborn and they preached the same thing about subs and they ended up running themselves into the ground because of it.
good ol blizzard they got their fans so brainwashed they can remove content , sell an expansion.... and people eat it up rofl. the fans are to blame for the current state of the industry7 -
Naivefanboi✭✭✭✭
prolly be to busy laughing at the buggy console release and lack of sales. anyone wanna bet it doesnt clear 3 mill across both systems? thats only 1.5 mill a piece.skillastatb16_ESO wrote: »
See I think that is a bit daft, best bet would be cancel your sub, never visit the cash store, and milk every free bit of fun you can still get from the game. The 'uninstall' approach just seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater (especially since I doubt they care any longer whether you sub or not), just come March get all the free fun you can out of it whilst taking up server space - you really haven't thought this through.
skyrim hit 13 mill on 360 and ps3.destiny has done really well despite qaulity issues.soo market is set for em. go get em tigers!
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Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Instead of coming out in an honest and forthright manner, everything I read from ZOS about these changes has been "rainbows, sunshine, and candy." They talk as though they are doing all of us a favor. Where is the candidness? The assurances? The pow wow time?
It's insulting to our intelligence when you go overboard trying to spin something.
One of my high school coaches had a saying I feel best fits this situation:
"Stop pis**ng on my face and telling me it's rain"
LMAO so they should be sad and depressed when doing these news releases?
Yeah. HOKAY MR SNOWFLAKE.
The irrational fanboy is strong in this one.
Im far from a Fanboy. In fact Im not a fan of anything that isnt a sub based MMO. But that doesnt mean Im going to freak out and cry about the changes that are coming.
But Good one Snowflake. You really got me in the feels with that Fanboi jab. I just dont show it well.
Let's see:
1. Posting irrational pro-ZOS content in every negative thread? Check.
2. Totally unreasonable regarding the shortcomings of ZOS? Check.
3. Personally attacks posters rather than their arguments which he disagrees with? Check.
Yup. Fanboy.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT8 -
Lord_Kreegan✭✭✭✭✭The scary part is that those three on ESO live actually have children. Imagine that 15 year old asking his dad, the PR guy: "Dad, what is ethics?". "Well son, that's something you can buy or sell. Just look at me and my co-workers.".
Years ago, long before I retired, I was working for a company that shall go nameless with about 75,000 employees that did the vast majority of its business with the Government. As a senior manager I was required to attend annual "ethics" training.
Every year we were presented with various case studies and then asked to judge the "ethical" approach to handling the situations; some of the cases involved business decisions with the Government (military) customers; some involved relations with employees.
Invariably, even for all of us who had been in these training sessions for many years, we guessed wrong at what the "right approach" should be to resolve the various case studies.
Why? Because we thought we should do the HONEST thing. From the corporate perspective, that was always the wrong thing to do. The corporate perspective was that as a manager you had to always act in the best interests of the company -- read that to mean focus on the profit margin -- unless that action would get the company banned from handling Government contracts or sued by an employee.
In other words, to be blunt, there was never any intent to do the "right thing"... and the "ethics" classes simply served to emphasize that point. If you wanted to be a highly paid manager or executive, you were supposed to always be in that grey area between right and wrong... and much closer to wrong than right.
From a business perspective, honesty and integrity are not the same thing as "ethics". Trust me: you are being manipulated when any businessman tells you how "ethical" his business is.
I never compromised myself; I always refused to. But American businesses are run by MBAs and their focus is on short term profits and risk avoidance. That means they do the "ethical" thing, not the honest thing.Edited by Lord_Kreegan on January 22, 2015 1:06PM9 -
Nazon_Katts✭✭✭✭✭Just wished they took history classes as well. Doing the ethical thing comes right out of 'How to start a War 101". Well, but then arms deal is one of the last economic driving forces besides drug business, so they might actually have done just that.
To make a killing is not by accident."You've probably figured that out by now. Let's hope so. Or we're in real trouble... and out come the intestines. And I skip rope with them!"0 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭Nazon_Katts wrote: »Just wished they took history classes as well. Doing the ethical thing comes right out of 'How to start a War 101". Well, but then arms deal is one of the last economic driving forces besides drug business, so they might actually have done just that.
To make a killing is not by accident.
Agreed and there are no responses to the rag quit threads that worries me, usually they close themThat which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
daneyulebub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep in mind, they haven't just lost many of their most loyal subscribers--(the kind of person so invested in the quality of the game they quit before seeing it go F2P) --but they've also unleashed those same passionate gamers to post scathing opinions about ESO and the ethics of ZOS on every gaming discussion site on the internet--on many of which, up until yesterday, they were the game's most vocal defenders.
(That reminds me! Off to throw some "likes' Angry Joe's way...)This message confirms that you have successfully cancelled your subscription to The Elder Scrolls Online. You will no longer be charged for a subscription on a recurring basis, and your access to the game will expire at the end of your current subscription cycle.
We're sad to see you go now, but we'll be happy to welcome you back at any time! Whenever you're ready to come back, your characters will be waiting for you, just like you left them. You can return anytime by resubscribing on the Manage Subscription page on your Elder Scrolls Online account.
Please print this email and keep it for your records.3 -
Yes all the sugar coating they do is nauseating. The Twitch stream was a sugar coated information session that really seemed so far out of touch with the players.MAIN
Aldmeri Dominion
Torroch, VR14 Orc DK Rank 22, Officer in Maelstrom
Once again looking for an organized PvP guild to join - viva la Venatus
NON-PvP Alts
Ebonheart Pact
Torach, VR12 Orc Sorcerer, GM House of the Tamriel Ten
Torrach, VR8 Orc Templar, House of the Tamriel Ten (older brother of Torach)5 -
Vis✭✭✭✭✭
✭jjf42001_ESO wrote: »Instead of coming out in an honest and forthright manner, everything I read from ZOS about these changes has been "rainbows, sunshine, and candy." They talk as though they are doing all of us a favor. Where is the candidness? The assurances? The pow wow time?
It's insulting to our intelligence when you go overboard trying to spin something.
One of my high school coaches had a saying I feel best fits this situation:
"Stop pis**ng on my face and telling me it's rain"
its the standard pattern, rift,swtor, ect lots of people have seen this whole dog and pony show before. all we can do now is sit back and enjoy the show.
So much truth. Except, I am getting tired of being tricked into watching the same show. This is one of those "fool me thrice" situations.
I am not asking for them to be depressed or sad. I just want them to empathize before beginning the "bs dance."
It reminds me of an airlines representative who, after losing my wife's luggage, told her with a big smile that they didn't "lose" her luggage, but rather they had elected to send it to our house over the next week or two. Then followed up by suggesting she had done us a favor by waving any charges for the delivery.
Apples and oranges ... but eerily similar attitudes.v14 Sorc Vae Exillis
v14 DK Costs
v14 NB 'Vis
v14 Temp Fiat Lux5 -
pmn100b16_ESO wrote: »Basically what happened is the game failed and they didn't have the subscriber base to support the game going forward. They've fallen back on the b2p (future f2p) cash shop model to sustain the business. I understand they can't come out and say this, but sticking a message on the launcher saying something along the lines of "Great News, we're going b2p, this is good and what you always wanted" is totally insulting. Its like politicians saying "its the right thing to do", its like they try to brainwash you into acceptance and not to question their decision.
The thing is, we don't know if that is the case.
They haven't released any number nor any justification aside from saying how much of a "service" they are doing us by switching models.
The only few things we could glean is the reports of 772k subscribers in July. And in October, the overall revenu ZOS did that if it were compared to WoW and its known subscriber numbers would net ESO 1M-1.2M average susbcribers. (inflated due to launch always having a higher influx of players)
The general feeling lately was that ESO was around 400k subscribers, but no idea where that came from.
What we do know is that ESO did make money though. ($111M in 6 month)
In the end, ZOS has, according to wikipedia, 250 employees. I do not know if this number is still accurate after the layoffs that happenned after launch, but from this we can estimate operating costs for the company and it is likely that 100K subscribers would be enough to break even and start making a profit.
Do you sincerely think that ESO, a high profile AAA MMO based on the elder scrolls IP did not pull more than 100k subscribers?
Heck, even in steam stat tracks showed increase in active players since the release of 1.6 information. Continued improvement and faith in the future was starting to pay off and fliping the boat around. That's what well managed subscription games get devs, a decade of yearly increased revenue.
Just look at Eve Online.
All of this is pure speculation based on non official sources, but I will doubt that the switch to f2p was a survival move until I see accurate numbers released showing that it was "this or going bankrupt".
The truth is most likely that the investors wanted a faster ROI. Either because they don't understand how MMOs work, or simply they don't understand business and how the most desirable situation is to create a cash cow product.0 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭
I am still trying to decide whose head was in whose behind. I guess they were like ESO's circle of "snakes". You can't say where one starts and another ends.Edited by Razzak on January 22, 2015 8:18PM1 -
morvegil✭✭✭✭The game is dead. Face it.Lo'ke
Nord Vampire
Nightblade
Shield+BOW
Daggerfall CovenantBandit KingBridge Bandits Guild0 -
Huckdabuck✭✭✭✭✭The game is dead. Face it.
Was it ever really alive? I mean after the first 2 months, this game was in an undeniable slow decline which only gained speed with each subsequent buggy patch.Texashighelf - VR16 Sorcerer EP NA - FILTHY BARBARIAN
Texasimperial - VR16 Dragonknight EP NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas'Imperial - VR16 Dragonknight DC NA - How do you like your DK?
Texas-Imperial - VR16 Templar DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Highelf - VR16 Sorcerer DC NA - Queue Clogging Lagsploitter
Texas Imperial - VR16 Nightblade DC NA - Queue Clogging LagsploitterJessica Folsom wrote:It's a very grey area.0 -
phreatophile✭✭✭✭✭
✭I said this in another thread but it works here too.
Long stretches of "ESO Live: All about Tamriel Unlimited" looked like a hostage video, Mr Sage was clearly not having a good time and I'm trying to decide if that shirt was suposed to be a distress signal of some kind, like when the fly a flag upsidedown from an embassy.2 -
You want a game? It has to have a certain level of profitably to continue on. Those in charge decided it wasn't meeting that threshold and decided to change the business model. It's this or nothing, and no, they aren't just going to throw away years of hard work because it upsets a few people willing to pay $15 month. Especially when they can attract x4 of people willing to buy it once and spend occasionally.
This is the life cycle of most MMO's these days, people need to understand that. Ethics has nothing to do with it, you either do something to save the patient or do nothing and the patient dies.0 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭VisceralMonkey wrote: »You want a game? It has to have a certain level of profitably to continue on. Those in charge decided it wasn't meeting that threshold and decided to change the business model. It's this or nothing, and no, they aren't just going to throw away years of hard work because it upsets a few people willing to pay $15 month. Especially when they can attract x4 of people willing to buy it once and spend occasionally.
This is the life cycle of most MMO's these days, people need to understand that. Ethics has nothing to do with it, you either do something to save the patient or do nothing and the patient dies.
Understanding it or agreeing with it are two different things. There is still something called principles.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't get why people bring up the 'They promised it would be this payment model' thing
I bet that was what they fully intended...back then when they said that. But stuff changes. Consumer demands are always shifting. You either adapt to what is needed to help your game or you follow the route Warhammer online went. If they thought staying sub based was the best thing for the game, they would have stayed that way.
I get it, they said something and went back on it. But wouldn't you go back on your word if you knew it was the right decisions to help your game move forward. Warhammer online was stubborn and they preached the same thing about subs and they ended up running themselves into the ground because of it.
The real problem is the way they have presented this going back on their word. They're PRETENDING they never said the things they did. There's an excellent post with direct quotes here in the forums, look it up. So now they're pretending they're doing us a favor and that it's just "so great!" that we now get to pay for things that by rights SHOULD simply be part of our monthly sub. We get WHY "things changed." What we should be able to EXPECT is some integrity and honesty about that instead of what we're getting...which is a pile of you-know-what. We deserve better than that.PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!2 -
grimsfield✭✭✭What I find most hilarious about all of this is that on ESO live yesterday they're sitting there saying they're going F2P because "The players wanted it". Yet >50% of people on these forums really don't want free to play, and most of us have been very vocal about that fact since the game released.
Listening to the players they say? HA!Edited by grimsfield on January 22, 2015 9:23PM3
