Australians - you ARE entitled to a refund because of b2p.

ashlee17 · January 2015

Just a shout out to australian ESO purchases/subscribers.

ESO is misleading you as to the refund policy.

If you would not have bought this game if you had known it was going b2p you can ask for a refund. Australian consumer law quoted below.

Replacements and refunds

You can ask for a replacement or refund if the problem with the product is major.

Replaced products must be of an identical type to the product originally supplied. Refunds should be the same amount you have already paid, provided in the same form as your original payment.

The business may take into account how much time has passed since you bought the product considering the following factors:

type of product
how a consumer is likely to use the product
the length of time for which it is reasonable for the product to be used
the amount of use it could reasonably be expected to tolerate before the failure becomes noticeable.
For a major problem with services you can cancel the contract and obtain a refund or seek compensation for the drop in value of your services provided compared to the price paid.

What is a major problem?

A product or good has a major problem when:

it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
it is unsafe
it is significantly different from the sample or description
it doesn’t do what the business said it would, or what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed.
A service has a major problem when:

it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time
it does not meet the specific purpose you asked for and cannot easily be fixed within a reasonable time
it creates an unsafe situation.

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund

Personally I'll stick around a while and see what happens - but all Australians should be told their rights.

ashlee17 · January 2015

The question to ask yourself now is- would I have bought and subscribed to ESO had I known how radically different this service/product is to the one that I was sold?

Nijjion · January 2015

With the game being as described for nearly a year, I don't think this can apply.

Also not forgetting a lot of Australians bought the game from other countries, meaning Australians laws don't count.

Yasha · January 2015

You are encouraging people to try and scam a refund after being able to enjoy playing the game (for however long they subbed)? Only a total scumbag would try to pull something like that, and there is no way you could get away with it anyway.

ashlee17 · January 2015

It depends if you think that's a reasonable amount of time. If you spent over $100 for the game plus sub fees I would argue that it's not.

You could have bought the game yesterday. Would that be reasonable?

And whatever happened to the monthly updates I was sold on.

These changes were decided on and planned for well in advance. We had a right to know about them. They have sold people one thing and now are delivering another. It's why they pulled the game from australian shelves last week. They know we have rights and laws that protect australian consumers. They should not be telling us that we have no right to a refund as this is untrue.

ashlee17 · January 2015

Yasha wrote: »

You are encouraging people to try and scam a refund after being able to enjoy playing the game (for however long they subbed)? Only a total scumbag would try to pull something like that, and there is no way you could get away with it anyway.

I am encouraging people be aware of their rights.

it is significantly different from the sample or description

The only scam here is Zos misleading its customers repeatedly for a year.

As I said - I am sticking around, but not everyone will feel the same way I do.

daktary2001 · January 2015

Hihi you are a funny little guy

Yasha · January 2015

ashlee17 wrote: »

it is significantly different from the sample or description

The only scam here is Zos misleading its customers repeatedly for a year.

As I said - I am sticking around, but not everyone will feel the same way I do.

Your tears are delicious bro.

jeevin · January 2015

ashlee17 wrote: »

The question to ask yourself now is- would I have bought and subscribed to ESO had I known how radically different this service/product is to the one that I was sold?

That is not true. If a product or service is bought and paid for in Australia regardless of origin it is covered by Australian consumer law. The Op is correct here.

Iago · January 2015

If I would have known they were going B2P I would not have subbed, I would have waited....... Sadly I am not n Australian

Yasha · January 2015

Iago wrote: »

If I would have known they were going B2P I would not have subbed, I would have waited....... Sadly I am not n Australian

I don't know any Australians who would be spiteful and stupid enough to do what the OP is encouraging.

ashlee17 · January 2015

Yasha wrote: »

I don't know any Australians who would be spiteful and stupid enough to do what the OP is encouraging.

There is nothing spiteful or stupid in standing up for your rights.

Smiling as a company sells you one thing and delivers another... Well that's not spiteful either.

Pavlina20 · January 2015

Read the T and C.

ashlee17 · January 2015

T and C doesn't trump consumer protection laws.

AzraelKrieg · January 2015

Should point out that games, unlike a lot of other products sold in Australia, only have a 30 day warranty at best. There is also this little nugget you conveniently skipped.

You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair, replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.

By the sounds of it, because ZOS has changed the business model and you don't agree with said business model you no longer like the purchase that you have made and you've changed your mind. Therefore it is not covered by the ACL. This was the biggest thing I had to try and explain to customers when the laws were changed. Sorry OP but they can legally not offer refund in this case.

Also, they have no Australian store front. Every product they sell is either through a reseller or direct via their website. The ACL would apply only to the reseller but since a reasonable amount of time has elapsed and the fact you clearly have changed your mind, you are not entitled to a refund.

Digiman · January 2015

Honestly I don't see the huge deal. I am still going to subscribe to this game (Captain sinks with the ship), the new model is fine by my standards and will probably bring my friends and family back to playing this game as well as add new players to it.

At most all Australian law can do is force ZoS to provide refunds for the bought game to Australian customers or fine them severely. I don't see to many Aussies dumping this game outright for a refund. I also think posters saying its unfair to ZoS because the said customers "enjoyed" a "satisfactory" experience of the game obviously shouldn't argue that considering this state of the game when it launched through this year.

Hell even reviews can support that this game was very unsatisfactory and costly to play. Since the product changed when bought while advertised to Australians as something else it was breech of law in that country.

Personally before, I would only recommend the game to die hard ES fans with money to burn. Now it seems things are changing

It seems more attractive then SWTOR current method, where thats more suitable for casual short term playing over long term play.

Anyway I would doubt any Australians are going to seek out refunds in force. The new system seems to compensate customers very well for their subscription time and if your an Aussie gamer who has still been playing this game from launch your obviously not going to leave considering the history of experience we had with this game.

ashlee17 wrote: »

T and C doesn't trump consumer protection laws.

No ToS or CoD or other online agreement box can trump commercial law. They are mainly used to explain away dismissals of service to users and protect against people who breech copyright laws. They are not a binding contract and can't breech law.

SFBryan18 · January 2015

Good luck with that. When you find out that you are not entitled to anything since you were paying for a subscription, try to learn something about the real world from it. You did not purchase a product that was described to last longer than the subscription you paid for, and during that time you got exactly what you were told you would get. Now go throw a tantrum somewhere else.

Naivefanboi · January 2015

ashlee17 wrote: »

The question to ask yourself now is- would I have bought and subscribed to ESO had I known how radically different this service/product is to the one that I was sold?

nope, if im gonna buy my mounts and pets might aswell have stayed with wow

Naivefanboi · January 2015

ashlee17 wrote: »

Yasha wrote: »

I don't know any Australians who would be spiteful and stupid enough to do what the OP is encouraging.

There is nothing spiteful or stupid in standing up for your rights.

Smiling as a company sells you one thing and delivers another... Well that's not spiteful either.

too funny guess this is just another "vocal minority" that doesnt know what they are talking about huh? lol

ashlee17 · January 2015

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Should point out that games, unlike a lot of other products sold in Australia, only have a 30 day warranty at best. There is also this little nugget you conveniently skipped.

You can ask a business for your preference of a free repair, replacement or refund, but you are not always entitled to one. For example, the consumer guarantees do not apply if you got what you asked for but simply changed your mind, found it cheaper somewhere else, decided you did not like the purchase or had no use for it.

By the sounds of it, because ZOS has changed the business model and you don't agree with said business model you no longer like the purchase that you have made and you've changed your mind. Therefore it is not covered by the ACL. This was the biggest thing I had to try and explain to customers when the laws were changed. Sorry OP but they can legally not offer refund in this case.

Also, they have no Australian store front. Every product they sell is either through a reseller or direct via their website. The ACL would apply only to the reseller but since a reasonable amount of time has elapsed and the fact you clearly have changed your mind, you are not entitled to a refund.

Thanks for your thoughts but you are mistaken on so many lvls it's hard to know where to begin.

Firstly the term warranty under ACL isn't 30 days. 30 days may be what a shop offers but it is in addition not exclusion to your rights under ACL. A what reasonable amount of time is always up for debate but the law tends to favor the consumers here.

Secondly, yes you can by online directly- you don't need a storefront here to be subject to ACL. You merely need to operate here. So yes Zos are subject to ACL.

Lastly, simply changing your mind is not covered, nor should it be. But as I have stated previously, if they sell you a product, then change it significantly you didn't change your mind- they changed the product.

If you still don't believe me I have a Ferrari to sell you. (Not really its just a mazda but I won't refund you for changing your mind)

Kilandros · January 2015

ashlee17 wrote: »

The question to ask yourself now is- would I have bought and subscribed to ESO had I known how radically different this service/product is to the one that I was sold?

The answer is "No:" I would not have bought and paid a subscription fee for an entire year if I had known ZOS was going to spend that year developing a B2P model and not delivering content every 4-6 weeks as promised.

clocksstoppe · January 2015

Personally you will do literally nothing because nobody will give a *** about this.

eisberg · January 2015

Changing how they charge for a service is not protected by the ACL. If they allowed that for refunds, it would open the door for for anybody to get refunds from a service provider if they had to even change their prices, or even change their service packages.

This is not a real problem, changing packaging and prices is not a real problem that the ACL is referring to.

ashlee17 · January 2015

Many organizations in Australia do care about consumers and are here to help

http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/complaints-problems/make-a-consumer-complaint

Holding businesses to account for their actions is a good thing. It promotes transparency, honesty and fairness as well as reliable industry. The reason we have companies we trust is because the untrustworthy ones can be weeded out by consumers.

While outside organizations are best used as a last resort, it comforting to know that individual consumers do not stand alone against large corporations should it ever come to that.

As I said, I want to give Zos a chance and see how this new product turns out. But I can imagine that not everyone will and I'm glad that they are protected under ACL.

Dagoth_Rac · January 2015

I don't think people understand how subscriptions work. Your initial purchase gave you 30 days of game time. You played for 30 days. After that, your subscriptions paid for the right to play the game for X days. You played the game for X days. That's it. If you have a subscription purchased before yesterday that goes beyond March 17th, you might be able to argue that you deserve a pro-rated refund for the portion that goes beyond March 17th. But a refund for initial access and subscription periods that have already ended? No.

Elsonso · January 2015

Looks like people are transitioning from Anger to Bargaining...

Curragraigue · January 2015

The product is still exactly the same. There is no major problem with it. Bush lawyers should avoid making these types of posts.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · January 2015

ashlee17 wrote: »

Just a shout out to australian ESO purchases/subscribers.

ESO is misleading you as to the refund policy.

If you would not have bought this game if you had known it was going b2p you can ask for a refund. Australian consumer law quoted below.

Replacements and refunds

You can ask for a replacement or refund if the problem with the product is major.

Replaced products must be of an identical type to the product originally supplied. Refunds should be the same amount you have already paid, provided in the same form as your original payment.

The business may take into account how much time has passed since you bought the product considering the following factors:

type of product
how a consumer is likely to use the product
the length of time for which it is reasonable for the product to be used
the amount of use it could reasonably be expected to tolerate before the failure becomes noticeable.
For a major problem with services you can cancel the contract and obtain a refund or seek compensation for the drop in value of your services provided compared to the price paid.

What is a major problem?

A product or good has a major problem when:

it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
it is unsafe
it is significantly different from the sample or description
it doesn’t do what the business said it would, or what you asked for and can’t easily be fixed.
A service has a major problem when:

it has a problem that would have stopped someone from buying it if they’d known about it
it is substantially unfit for its common purpose and can’t easily be fixed within a reasonable time
it does not meet the specific purpose you asked for and cannot easily be fixed within a reasonable time
it creates an unsafe situation.

https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/repair-replace-refund

Personally I'll stick around a while and see what happens - but all Australians should be told their rights.

As usual, an armchair lawyer speaks and demonstrates his cluelessness.

fromtesonlineb16_ESO · January 2015

ashlee17 wrote: »

The question to ask yourself now is- would I have bought and subscribed to ESO had I known how radically different this service/product is to the one that I was sold?

What rubbish, you got what you bought and paid for, access to a game. MMOs are expected to change, they even say "game experience may change". In any legal setting the 'change' F2P will make is marginal to non-existent, far, far bigger changes have taken place and will do so even under the subscription regime: the removal of VR is HUGE compared to the trivial change to payment method F2P will bring.

AzraelKrieg · January 2015

lordrichter wrote: »

Looks like people are transitioning from Anger to Bargaining...

I skipped it all. I've accepted the change

ashlee17 · January 2015

fromtesonlineb16_ESO - do you have a counterpoint or just a tired old forum joke. At least make your personal jibes original and funny if you can't add constructively to the thread.

Same goes to the next unconstructive jibe...

Anyway...

It will be interesting to see how massively this game changes while it stays "the same".

Anyone who recently bought the box game want to comment? I would love to hear your thoughts