Why BoP is a terrible idea.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · January 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Bind-on-Pickup is a slap in the face to solo/duo players who pay their $15 sub every month and play for hours every day but can NEVER get their hands on useful sets like Wise Mage. ZoS won't let us play for these items, but they won't let us grind for them, either... it's lame and needs to STOP.

Just make everything Bind-on-Equip and the problem is solved fairly for everyone. There is no need for complicated token schemes or whatever, just let us have an open market!

I agree totally, a player driven economy is always the best economy. BoP deters that.

Emma_Overload · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Bind-on-Pickup is a slap in the face to solo/duo players who pay their $15 sub every month and play for hours every day but can NEVER get their hands on useful sets like Wise Mage. ZoS won't let us play for these items, but they won't let us grind for them, either... it's lame and needs to STOP.

... what does ZOS have to do with what you do in game? If you decide not to partake in certain content (e.g. trials or PvP), then that is your loss.

It is as if I said "I don't like leveling, give me VR14 for free".

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Just make everything Bind-on-Equip and the problem is solved fairly for everyone. There is no need for complicated token schemes or whatever, just let us have an open market!

You mean that you want free stuff, without actually having to earn it?

That'd be a slap in the face of every dedicated end game raider out there.

NO. Considering weaksauce Warlock pieces are going for 200K, I could see Wise Mage stuff going for 500K. Do you have any idea how long it takes to grind that much gold? How is that "free"?

By the way, I would LOVE to partake in all content in the game, including trials, but unfortunately ESO is designed to make certain content IMPOSSIBLE to play for small groups or solo players.

Here is a proof shot of my latest glorious (but doomed) attempt to solo Hel Ra Citadel. I already made it past the first two groups of mobs and was doing 8000 dps on the third group before I died, but according to snobby guild raiders, I don't deserve a shot at the best items? That's bogus.

AlnilamE · January 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Bind-on-Pickup is a slap in the face to solo/duo players who pay their $15 sub every month and play for hours every day but can NEVER get their hands on useful sets like Wise Mage. ZoS won't let us play for these items, but they won't let us grind for them, either... it's lame and needs to STOP.

... what does ZOS have to do with what you do in game? If you decide not to partake in certain content (e.g. trials or PvP), then that is your loss.

It is as if I said "I don't like leveling, give me VR14 for free".

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Just make everything Bind-on-Equip and the problem is solved fairly for everyone. There is no need for complicated token schemes or whatever, just let us have an open market!

You mean that you want free stuff, without actually having to earn it?

That'd be a slap in the face of every dedicated end game raider out there.

NO. Considering weaksauce Warlock pieces are going for 200K, I could see Wise Mage stuff going for 500K. Do you have any idea how long it takes to grind that much gold? How is that "free"?

By the way, I would LOVE to partake in all content in the game, including trials, but unfortunately ESO is designed to make certain content IMPOSSIBLE to play for small groups or solo players.

Here is a proof shot of my latest glorious (but doomed) attempt to solo Hel Ra Citadel. I already made it past the first two groups of mobs and was doing 8000 dps on the third group before I died, but according to snobby guild raiders, I don't deserve a shot at the best items? That's bogus.

You still had 72 rezzes...

DDuke · January 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Bind-on-Pickup is a slap in the face to solo/duo players who pay their $15 sub every month and play for hours every day but can NEVER get their hands on useful sets like Wise Mage. ZoS won't let us play for these items, but they won't let us grind for them, either... it's lame and needs to STOP.

... what does ZOS have to do with what you do in game? If you decide not to partake in certain content (e.g. trials or PvP), then that is your loss.

It is as if I said "I don't like leveling, give me VR14 for free".

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Just make everything Bind-on-Equip and the problem is solved fairly for everyone. There is no need for complicated token schemes or whatever, just let us have an open market!

You mean that you want free stuff, without actually having to earn it?

That'd be a slap in the face of every dedicated end game raider out there.

NO. Considering weaksauce Warlock pieces are going for 200K, I could see Wise Mage stuff going for 500K. Do you have any idea how long it takes to grind that much gold? How is that "free"?

By the way, I would LOVE to partake in all content in the game, including trials, but unfortunately ESO is designed to make certain content IMPOSSIBLE to play for small groups or solo players.

Here is a proof shot of my latest glorious (but doomed) attempt to solo Hel Ra Citadel. I already made it past the first two groups of mobs and was doing 8000 dps on the third group before I died, but according to snobby guild raiders, I don't deserve a shot at the best items? That's bogus.

That is end game raid content, you're unlikely to solo it.

That said, 500K is extremely easy to get if you know how to (50k/hour=10 hours).

I have close to 3 million at the moment, and the moment trial gear (which you have to earn by beating the challenging content) becomes BoE, I will have nothing to do in-game (since I get the best gear right away).

This, and the fact that it'd promote gold selling to whole new levels...

AoEnwyr · January 2015

BoP is a method used to also prevent players from "buying" their way to top tier gear. I don't mind BoP as long as it is Bind to Account and not Bind to Character. That way I can personally get maximum use out of the item across several play throughs if I want. I do think some items should be BoP, I don't agree with people buying everything instead of actually earning it properly.

Emma_Overload · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Bind-on-Pickup is a slap in the face to solo/duo players who pay their $15 sub every month and play for hours every day but can NEVER get their hands on useful sets like Wise Mage. ZoS won't let us play for these items, but they won't let us grind for them, either... it's lame and needs to STOP.

... what does ZOS have to do with what you do in game? If you decide not to partake in certain content (e.g. trials or PvP), then that is your loss.

It is as if I said "I don't like leveling, give me VR14 for free".

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Just make everything Bind-on-Equip and the problem is solved fairly for everyone. There is no need for complicated token schemes or whatever, just let us have an open market!

You mean that you want free stuff, without actually having to earn it?

That'd be a slap in the face of every dedicated end game raider out there.

NO. Considering weaksauce Warlock pieces are going for 200K, I could see Wise Mage stuff going for 500K. Do you have any idea how long it takes to grind that much gold? How is that "free"?

By the way, I would LOVE to partake in all content in the game, including trials, but unfortunately ESO is designed to make certain content IMPOSSIBLE to play for small groups or solo players.

Here is a proof shot of my latest glorious (but doomed) attempt to solo Hel Ra Citadel. I already made it past the first two groups of mobs and was doing 8000 dps on the third group before I died, but according to snobby guild raiders, I don't deserve a shot at the best items? That's bogus.

That is end game raid content, you're unlikely to solo it.

That said, 500K is extremely easy to get if you know how to (50k/hour=10 hours).

I have close to 3 million at the moment, and the moment trial gear (which you have to earn by beating the challenging content) becomes BoE, I will have nothing to do in-game (since I get the best gear right away).

This, and the fact that it'd promote gold selling to whole new levels...

I would rather have nothing to do because I had completed all content and acquired all items than have nothing to do because the last 10% of the content and all the best items had been arbitrarily walled off.

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

DDuke wrote: »

Sorry, but the moment items like Vicious Ophidian, or Undaunted sets become BoE (read: instantly available for people with a lot of gold) is the moment I stop PvEing altogether and then spend all days complaining how there's nothing worth doing in the game.

You can't let people work hard to achieve something, then give it away basically for free to players pretty much fresh out of leveling process, that's just backwards thinking. If other players worked hard (and were skillful enough) to achieve those items, then so should you.

I'm not saying there are no faults with the game's loot systems, but BoE loot would only be a step backwards.

Other, more feasible solutions:
Make the loot system less punishing, by introducing a Need/Greed system for the most difficult content only (SO/Vet Arena).

Add a token or a reputation system for Undaunted shoulders (but make sure it's still difficult to get them).

Work hard? Take me...i have done at least 1 gold key every day since The Undaunted Pledges have started and I have yet so see:

1. a Single Helmet from any of the delves.
2. A single set of shouders from any of the chests.

I don't get the wrong traits, I get NOTHING! How does getting lucky with an RNG = "hard work". My guildies and all my friends get 2-3 helmet drops a week and multiple shoulders and i get nothing for my gold keys except 69 gold, a useless generic purple item, and a gem. I usually get some useless generic purple item(if im luck) and gold from bosses in Delves...usually its gold and some white item.

As it stands right now, there are just as many players getting all this cool gear as ones who are not. There are many people like me that never get a thing. You do realize i probably will never get to try out any of this gear, because it will never drop me.

I have a buddy that has 3 alts, does 2-3 gold pledges per day...has yet to get a helmet or shoulders...

Simply put the current RNG is flawed, because its too random. Because the RNG is not weighted in anyway, its possible a person can never ever ever ever get a drop. Those who support this system, the time will come one day where you will be in my position never getting a single drop, then you will know how it feels to be on the short end of the stick all the time.

The current RNG needs fixed, it needs to be based on a weighted system with a slope, and the longer you go without getting a drop, the more the chances need to be slated in your favor to get the drops. Take someone like me, as many times as i have done these pledges, the RNG should be slated heavily in my favor so that way "i get a bite of the carrot every now and then" to keep me going along....never getting a bite of the carrot will eventually lead to me simply stop doing it.

For example, the 1st 100 times you loot or open something the system should obviously pick from a random number pool and give the items.

After 100 times, said player should have 25% increased chance of getting rare item for next 100 tries until player gets the item.

If player still hasn't gotten the rare item after 200 tries then said player gets 50%% increased chance to draw rare item.

And the scales keeps going up, with 400 loots or chests giving 100% chance. Or it could be 500 chests, 600, it just needs to be weighted on a scale. the current RNG implementation has clearly simply discriminated against, if i had to guess, i'd say at least 40% of players get ziltch all the time.

Really makes for a bad system overall, making things too rare is bad, sure things should be rare, but their has to be a point of reasonableness to rare as well.

Right now, these item sets to be are more rare then a Mercedes existing on Nirn.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

Am I one of the few players who thinks Bind on Pickup gear is a great idea? My highest level character is only VR6 so I've not been able to complete any endgame Craglorn content. The minute I finally attain VR14 I could immediately upgrade all my gear to VR14 legendary quality gear and all it would take is spending gold.

I personally think the best gear in the game should not be tradeable. It doesn't bother me that people who have spent more time playing the game than me have better gear than me. It wouldn't bother me if people who have completed end game Craglorn content have better gear than a crafted legendary set I could equip as soon as I level up to VR14.

DDuke · January 2015

woodsro wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Sorry, but the moment items like Vicious Ophidian, or Undaunted sets become BoE (read: instantly available for people with a lot of gold) is the moment I stop PvEing altogether and then spend all days complaining how there's nothing worth doing in the game.

You can't let people work hard to achieve something, then give it away basically for free to players pretty much fresh out of leveling process, that's just backwards thinking. If other players worked hard (and were skillful enough) to achieve those items, then so should you.

I'm not saying there are no faults with the game's loot systems, but BoE loot would only be a step backwards.

Other, more feasible solutions:
Make the loot system less punishing, by introducing a Need/Greed system for the most difficult content only (SO/Vet Arena).

Add a token or a reputation system for Undaunted shoulders (but make sure it's still difficult to get them).

Work hard? Take me...i have done at least 1 gold key every day since The Undaunted Pledges have started and I have yet so see:

1. a Single Helmet from any of the delves.
2. A single set of shouders from any of the chests.

I don't get the wrong traits, I get NOTHING! How does getting lucky with an RNG = "hard work". My guildies and all my friends get 2-3 helmet drops a week and multiple shoulders and i get nothing for my gold keys except 69 gold, a useless generic purple item, and a gem. I usually get some useless generic purple item(if im luck) and gold from bosses in Delves...usually its gold and some white item.

As it stands right now, there are just as many players getting all this cool gear as ones who are not. There are many people like me that never get a thing. You do realize i probably will never get to try out any of this gear, because it will never drop me.

I have a buddy that has 3 alts, does 2-3 gold pledges per day...has yet to get a helmet or shoulders...

Simply put the current RNG is flawed, because its too random. Because the RNG is not weighted in anyway, its possible a person can never ever ever ever get a drop. Those who support this system, the time will come one day where you will be in my position never getting a single drop, then you will know how it feels to be on the short end of the stick all the time.

The current RNG needs fixed, it needs to be based on a weighted system with a slope, and the longer you go without getting a drop, the more the chances need to be slated in your favor to get the drops. Take someone like me, as many times as i have done these pledges, the RNG should be slated heavily in my favor so that way "i get a bite of the carrot every now and then" to keep me going along....never getting a bite of the carrot will eventually lead to me simply stop doing it.

For example, the 1st 100 times you loot or open something the system should obviously pick from a random number pool and give the items.

After 100 times, said player should have 25% increased chance of getting rare item for next 100 tries until player gets the item.

If player still hasn't gotten the rare item after 200 tries then said player gets 50%% increased chance to draw rare item.

And the scales keeps going up, with 400 loots or chests giving 100% chance. Or it could be 500 chests, 600, it just needs to be weighted on a scale. the current RNG implementation has clearly simply discriminated against, if i had to guess, i'd say at least 40% of players get ziltch all the time.

Really makes for a bad system overall, making things too rare is bad, sure things should be rare, but their has to be a point of reasonableness to rare as well.

Right now, these item sets to be are more rare then a Mercedes existing on Nirn.

If you read my post past the first paragraph, you'll note that I agree with your sentiments (that the current RNG system simply sucks), and I provided a several options for dealing with it (options which are what the majority of MMOs out there do, because they work).

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

I'm not against BOP, I just think the current RNG is flawed.

Right now its feast or famine. Those who have been getting drops and such the past few months, how random works its only a matter of time before they end up in my position going months without a drop. I'm proof that its possible no matter how many times you open or farm, its possible to never ever get a drop.

Take the gargoyle in spindleclutch, me and a few friends farmed that thing everyday for a week and a half. I know we killed that thing hundreds of times, everyone got a helmet but yours truly...i have done that dungeon multiple times since then and still ziltch.

I have zero motivation to even bother anymore. The last two weeks I only do them if asked because they need a dps, I think they feel bad asking me because I never get anything at all. Not that I care anymore mind you, I simply complete the dungeon and gracefully leave voice comms, while they link all the stuff they get, and I get nothing.

Anyways, I have said my piece about the RNG drop rates, it is what it is, ill just live with getting miffed everytime I do a pledge, I quit getting my hopes up of getting anything weeks ago.

Khami · January 2015

dharbert wrote: »

I absolutely agree, BOP needs to go away. If you've done the Undaunted pledges trying to get a certain trait on a helm or shoulder, or you've got the one you want plus several others, you have no choice but to decon it, sell it to a vendor, or trash it.

Create another source of revenue for players and allow us to sell these and other BOP (Trials, etc..) gear, or at least trade them to our guild mates and friends.

Raid gear should never be bought from another player, it should always be earned not be able to be sold.

Now, they can do what SW:TOR does with their BOP gear, you're allowed to trade it to someone in the group who needs it for an hour before its prema binds to you.

DDuke wrote: »

Sorry, but the moment items like Vicious Ophidian, or Undaunted sets become BoE (read: instantly available for people with a lot of gold) is the moment I stop PvEing altogether and then spend all days complaining how there's nothing worth doing in the game.

You can't let people work hard to achieve something, then give it away basically for free to players pretty much fresh out of leveling process, that's just backwards thinking. If other players worked hard (and were skillful enough) to achieve those items, then so should you.

I'm not saying there are no faults with the game's loot systems, but BoE loot would only be a step backwards.

Other, more feasible solutions:
Make the loot system less punishing, by introducing a Need/Greed system for the most difficult content only (SO/Vet Arena).

Add a token or a reputation system for Undaunted shoulders (but make sure it's still difficult to get them).

No, need/greed keeps players from getting any loot. The way its set up now, I will always get a piece of gear, same as you. They need to allow for trading for a short amount of time.

I did a pick up raid in SW:TOR last month, it was a group of 16 for it. There are at least 5 bosses to get loot from plus many items from the trash. Out of that run, I got 1 piece of armor total.

No, no, no to need/greed BS. I want the loot, even if it's not something I need. I can at worst vendor it for gold or break it down for mats.

DDuke · January 2015

Khami wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

I absolutely agree, BOP needs to go away. If you've done the Undaunted pledges trying to get a certain trait on a helm or shoulder, or you've got the one you want plus several others, you have no choice but to decon it, sell it to a vendor, or trash it.

Create another source of revenue for players and allow us to sell these and other BOP (Trials, etc..) gear, or at least trade them to our guild mates and friends.

Raid gear should never be bought from another player, it should always be earned not be able to be sold.

Now, they can do what SW:TOR does with their BOP gear, you're allowed to trade it to someone in the group who needs it for an hour before its prema binds to you.

DDuke wrote: »

Sorry, but the moment items like Vicious Ophidian, or Undaunted sets become BoE (read: instantly available for people with a lot of gold) is the moment I stop PvEing altogether and then spend all days complaining how there's nothing worth doing in the game.

You can't let people work hard to achieve something, then give it away basically for free to players pretty much fresh out of leveling process, that's just backwards thinking. If other players worked hard (and were skillful enough) to achieve those items, then so should you.

I'm not saying there are no faults with the game's loot systems, but BoE loot would only be a step backwards.

Other, more feasible solutions:
Make the loot system less punishing, by introducing a Need/Greed system for the most difficult content only (SO/Vet Arena).

Add a token or a reputation system for Undaunted shoulders (but make sure it's still difficult to get them).

No, need/greed keeps players from getting any loot. The way its set up now, I will always get a piece of gear, same as you. They need to allow for trading for a short amount of time.

I did a pick up raid in SW:TOR last month, it was a group of 16 for it. There are at least 5 bosses to get loot from plus many items from the trash. Out of that run, I got 1 piece of armor total.

No, no, no to need/greed BS. I want the loot, even if it's not something I need. I can at worst vendor it for gold or break it down for mats.

This, ladies & gentlemen, is the perfect example why Need/Greed system should apply only to the most difficult content (which you can't pug).

There are some pretty damn greedy (note: it's one of the options in the system) players out there

There's a couple of things that can be done about your complaints:

Make useless purple gear still drop abundantly from bosses so you have lots of things to roll "Greed" on
Make those useless purple things still drop as personal loot, while the rest is Need/Greed

Simple as that.

You did one run in SWTOR & got one useful piece of armor for you, that's more than I've got in months for running Undaunted stuff, and out of the 20+ SO runs I have 2 pieces of gear I needed

I'd be happy with 1 piece/1 run, if no one else needed the item.
I also wouldn't mind if it didn't drop & I got nothing, since there's a reasonable chance it'll drop next run.

Khami · January 2015

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Bind-on-Pickup is a slap in the face to solo/duo players who pay their $15 sub every month and play for hours every day but can NEVER get their hands on useful sets like Wise Mage. ZoS won't let us play for these items, but they won't let us grind for them, either... it's lame and needs to STOP.

Just make everything Bind-on-Equip and the problem is solved fairly for everyone. There is no need for complicated token schemes or whatever, just let us have an open market!

I agree totally, a player driven economy is always the best economy. BoP deters that.

Raid gear, which is what the wise mage set is, should never be something anyone can get. It needs to be earned, simple as that.

If you are unwilling to group with others to do a trial then you don't deserve the gear.

Simple as that.

The best gear should always be BOP, always.

clocksstoppe · January 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

The need and greed system would not work with ESO. You are asking for loot to be changed and NOT be independent of each party member . Meaning everyone shares loot that's dropped. So the need and greed system needs to NOT be in this game. I rather like having my own loot.

A different method would be greatly appreciated.

You didn't explain why it wouldn't work, you just whined about wanting your own loot every time.

DDuke · January 2015

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Gorthax wrote: »

The need and greed system would not work with ESO. You are asking for loot to be changed and NOT be independent of each party member . Meaning everyone shares loot that's dropped. So the need and greed system needs to NOT be in this game. I rather like having my own loot.

A different method would be greatly appreciated.

You didn't explain why it wouldn't work, you just whined about wanting your own loot every time.

And these players can have their own loot every time (just not the rare drops, those would be need/greed).

I really don't understand why people prefer having a random RNG chance at getting an item (only to see a group member who didn't need it to get it), over having some semblance of control over who gets what.

I guess it's the fear of denial, that those "evil group members" would somehow deny them their "rightful loot".

I'd rather have those group members "deny" my loot (if one of them needed it more than I do, or rolled better), than random RNG that doesn't care about who needs what or who has what already.

sagitter · January 2015

Don't play mmo if u want play duo/solo. Anyway forming a group of 4 for a daily quest, it's the easyest thing you can do in this game. I usually can build every day a 4 men pug group in 30 mins max. This is the reason why i play an mmo and not a single player game. Removing bop from daily items will kill the daily function content.

Emma_Overload · January 2015

sagitter wrote: »

Removing bop from daily items will kill the daily function content.

I've seen this ridiculous argument before whenever the topic of BoP comes up. If required grouping is really so wonderful and fun, what difference does it make if the gear is BoP or BoE? If what you say is really true, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, playing in a group of 4 strangers (or 12 for trials) is actually NOT THAT FUN for the majority of players, who would rather just play with their wife or their kid or one or two buddies. Do you ever wonder why MMOs always seem to fail or go F2P these days?

Maybe ZoS should be the first company that actually makes the game the masses want to play, instead of asking us to subsidize the entertainment of a few hundred guild/raid snobs.

Emma_Overload · January 2015

Khami wrote: »

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Bind-on-Pickup is a slap in the face to solo/duo players who pay their $15 sub every month and play for hours every day but can NEVER get their hands on useful sets like Wise Mage. ZoS won't let us play for these items, but they won't let us grind for them, either... it's lame and needs to STOP.

Just make everything Bind-on-Equip and the problem is solved fairly for everyone. There is no need for complicated token schemes or whatever, just let us have an open market!

I agree totally, a player driven economy is always the best economy. BoP deters that.

Raid gear, which is what the wise mage set is, should never be something anyone can get. It needs to be earned, simple as that.

If you are unwilling to group with others to do a trial then you don't deserve the gear.

Simple as that.

The best gear should always be BOP, always.

So, in other words, you can't enjoy playing unless other players are miserable. That's real nice. It's not enough for you to enjoy playing with your 12 man raid team, you need to boost your ego by having the best gear all to yourself? Lame.

Your argument is flawed, anyway. My willingness to group for trials has nothing to do with this issue. Personally, I'd be happy to join a group of any size... as long as it wasn't a big hassle, and I didn't have to kiss anybody's a-s.The problem with ESO isn't "forced grouping", it's the LACK of forced grouping. Yeah, you heard me. If ZoS really wants people to group, they should make every group dungeon or trial instance work like a Quake or Counter-Strike server: you join the instance and just get thrown in with whoever.

Rescorla_ESO · January 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Removing bop from daily items will kill the daily function content.

I've seen this ridiculous argument before whenever the topic of BoP comes up. If required grouping is really so wonderful and fun, what difference does it make if the gear is BoP or BoE? If what you say is really true, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, playing in a group of 4 strangers (or 12 for trials) is actually NOT THAT FUN for the majority of players, who would rather just play with their wife or their kid or one or two buddies. Do you ever wonder why MMOs always seem to fail or go F2P these days?

Maybe ZoS should be the first company that actually makes the game the masses want to play, instead of asking us to subsidize the entertainment of a few hundred guild/raid snobs.

Are you asserting the masses want easy, best in slot loot without having to do raids/trials or spend a lot of Alliance Points to acquire it? I agree with you if you are talking about WoW.

Emma_Overload · January 2015

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Removing bop from daily items will kill the daily function content.

I've seen this ridiculous argument before whenever the topic of BoP comes up. If required grouping is really so wonderful and fun, what difference does it make if the gear is BoP or BoE? If what you say is really true, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, playing in a group of 4 strangers (or 12 for trials) is actually NOT THAT FUN for the majority of players, who would rather just play with their wife or their kid or one or two buddies. Do you ever wonder why MMOs always seem to fail or go F2P these days?

Maybe ZoS should be the first company that actually makes the game the masses want to play, instead of asking us to subsidize the entertainment of a few hundred guild/raid snobs.

Are you asserting the masses want easy, best in slot loot without having to do raids/trials or spend a lot of Alliance Points to acquire it? I agree with you if you are talking about WoW.

Who said it needs to be easy? I just want it to be POSSIBLE for solo/duo players. If ZoS is too lazy or stubborn to scale the dungeons and trials to the size of the group, the LEAST they can do is make the gear BoE so we can grind for it.

ZOS_MichaelM · January 2015

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kelly.medleyb14_ESO · February 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Rescorla_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

Removing bop from daily items will kill the daily function content.

I've seen this ridiculous argument before whenever the topic of BoP comes up. If required grouping is really so wonderful and fun, what difference does it make if the gear is BoP or BoE? If what you say is really true, then maybe, JUST MAYBE, playing in a group of 4 strangers (or 12 for trials) is actually NOT THAT FUN for the majority of players, who would rather just play with their wife or their kid or one or two buddies. Do you ever wonder why MMOs always seem to fail or go F2P these days?

Maybe ZoS should be the first company that actually makes the game the masses want to play, instead of asking us to subsidize the entertainment of a few hundred guild/raid snobs.

Are you asserting the masses want easy, best in slot loot without having to do raids/trials or spend a lot of Alliance Points to acquire it? I agree with you if you are talking about WoW.

Who said it needs to be easy? I just want it to be POSSIBLE for solo/duo players. If ZoS is too lazy or stubborn to scale the dungeons and trials to the size of the group, the LEAST they can do is make the gear BoE so we can grind for it.

^ This.

VarilRau · February 2015

They should have the bosses drop/yield pledges. Then have a vendor at the undaunted selling the stuff. I dont give a damn if i need to clear SO 5 times for one part of gear. I just dont clear it 5 times for 5 items i dont need. So far i have 3 infallible jerkins, one robe, 4 head's, one belt with inpen and pants with reinforced.. And 3 sets of vicious and almost a full set of eternal..

Id trade 95% of those loots for infallible boots & gloves.

Also this way the manticora and the two middle bosses might as well drop something usefull. Say, you need 30 tokens for a part of set that you cna choose the trait & item part, have the manti drop 2 tokens, troll and the lamia 1 token each, and serpent 3 or 4..

KerinKor · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

and the moment trial gear (which you have to earn by beating the challenging content) becomes BoE, I will have nothing to do in-game (since I get the best gear right away).

Because such a change would FORCE you to buy it instead of carrying on 'working for it' as you probably think you do now.

LOL?

DDuke · February 2015

KerinKor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

and the moment trial gear (which you have to earn by beating the challenging content) becomes BoE, I will have nothing to do in-game (since I get the best gear right away).

Because such a change would FORCE you to buy it instead of carrying on 'working for it' as you probably think you do now.

LOL?

Umm... yes?

Why would I spend days/years with my fingers crossed for the RNG bs loot system to grant me my item, when I can just buy it off the store?
You fail to understand the mindset of a competitive player.
You do whatever it takes to be on the top of the top as fast as possible; if it means spending gold, you spend gold. If it means a frustrating grind, you grind.

The only difference is that gold requires no skill and is extremely easy to acquire. They make loot BoE, and my 3 million gold will make sure I never touch PvE again and get bored.

Making loot BoE would kill end game PvE, Need/Greed or Token system would make it less frustrating.

But here, have a LOL since you asked for it.

Emma_Overload · February 2015

DDuke wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

and the moment trial gear (which you have to earn by beating the challenging content) becomes BoE, I will have nothing to do in-game (since I get the best gear right away).

Because such a change would FORCE you to buy it instead of carrying on 'working for it' as you probably think you do now.

LOL?

Umm... yes?

Why would I spend days/years with my fingers crossed for the RNG bs loot system to grant me my item, when I can just buy it off the store?
You fail to understand the mindset of a competitive player.
You do whatever it takes to be on the top of the top as fast as possible; if it means spending gold, you spend gold. If it means a frustrating grind, you grind.

The only difference is that gold requires no skill and is extremely easy to acquire. They make loot BoE, and my 3 million gold will make sure I never touch PvE again and get bored.

Making loot BoE would kill end game PvE, Need/Greed or Token system would make it less frustrating.

But here, have a LOL since you asked for it.

LOL... your argument is funny because you omit the ONE detail that would actually make it logical.... WHY you run endgame raids.

So you don't do it for the pride of getting on the leaderboard, because that has NOTHING to do with whether the gear is BoP or BoE.

And you don't do it because raiding is fun, otherwise why is the gear reward an issue at all?

And you don't do it because you want the gear for its own sake, otherwise why is BoE an issue for you?

NO... I think you like raids with BoP rewards because of their EXCLUSIVITY. You like having items that you can show off to others and make them envious. You like having things that other players can't have, no matter how skilled they are or how hard they work. Otherwise your argument makes no sense at all.

BoP rewards for endgame content have NOTHING to do with player skill. It's just like the special jackets you get when you play on the varsity football squad in high school. It doesn't matter how bad the football team sucks at football, it doesn't matter if they came in dead last against other schools, they get the jackets just for making it on the team. And the only reason they're on the team is because they're friends with the right people, probably since 1st grade, LOL. What a farce!

Sorry, but I think your argument for BoP is weak because you're not being clear about your motivations.

Artis · February 2015

No no no. Top gear should only be BoP. Otherwise not only players will get it without earning it in -game, but even worse - they will get it by using their real-life advantages. As in, one can buy gold from a gold seller paying in dollars or euros or roubles.. And then by top gear, whereas people who can't invest more real money will not have this gear yet even though their skill would be higher and they deserve this gear more.

So no, BoP items should stay. Skill and time investment (more skill, than the latter) should be important in the game, not real money. Why would you want to play a pay-to-win game?

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · February 2015

Artemis wrote: »

No no no. Top gear should only be BoP. Otherwise not only players will get it without earning it in -game, but even worse - they will get it by using their real-life advantages. As in, one can buy gold from a gold seller paying in dollars or euros or roubles.. And then by top gear, whereas people who can't invest more real money will not have this gear yet even though their skill would be higher and they deserve this gear more.

So no, BoP items should stay. Skill and time investment (more skill, than the latter) should be important in the game, not real money. Why would you want to play a pay-to-win game?

Only there is no skill involved. Get a grip please.

Soulshine · February 2015

It is the perennial complaint of MMOs and not new. The problem is the way in which the RNG systems upon which BoP drops are based work. Change the system used to reward the drops and one could potentially remove this problem - but no game to date has come up with a viable replacement for RNG afik. What players should be demanding is the removal of that type of rewards system, not the premise of BoP itself since it serves a good purpose and is also part of what makes play rewarding for many players.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · February 2015

Soulshine wrote: »

It is the perennial complaint of MMOs and not new. The problem is the way in which the RNG systems upon which BoP drops are based work. Change the system used to reward the drops and one could potentially remove this problem - but no game to date has come up with a viable replacement for RNG afik. What players should be demanding is the removal of that type of rewards system, not the premise of BoP itself since it serves a good purpose and is also part of what makes play rewarding for many players.

So the best alternative is to remove all BoP (which is a horrible mechanic to begin with serving no purpose) this will allow players to trade items they don't want for items they do want.