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Do you support the Ult gain changes ( sorted by PvE / PvP )
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Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.trimsic_ESO wrote: »im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?
The disconnect is quite easy to define: you are so confident in your reasoning that you don't hear the people who disagree with you, and when someone agrees with you, s/he reinforces your feeling that you are right with your reasoning.
yes the people who are in the top 10 of all the pve leaderboards who give me their opinion and i trust explicitly to give me good advice are of less value to me than some angry casuals. take a nap and a shower to get some of that salt off.5 -
Nihil✭✭✭im not sure..until i test it on release.It's coming either way....I just figured some feedback might be nice. Do you support the changes to ult gain that make ult a flat gain rate. I'll keep my opinion out if it.
ZoS please shut this thread down, it's useless, pointless and there's 3289`893589`432589 other posts about it. This OP needs to L2SearchThread.
Actually of all the threads I have seen this has had some of the better non flaming discussions that have been derived from it, so it could actually be useful if it stays flame free and stays with constructive views on the topic. All statistics can be skewed of course and should be taken with a grain of salt, but the thought process that go into it can help give ideas to developers or help discuss why things might be the way they are.
Now I picked my choice because I hate saying if I like something till I test it out, I think this has potential to leading towards more diversity in builds, as players won't be stream lined into specific abilities to generate ultimate fast. I also see this as a way for developers to balance content more appropriately, right now when ever they are developing content they would have to keep in mind how fast some players can build their ultimate and base encounters off of the idea that they could (in theory) always be taking 30 % less damage, or at least 6 trash mobs (who can be cced) being taken out of the fight for 11 seconds, and so on. With this change they might be able to build the encounters around the idea of ultimates not always being active, and can build the encounter accordingly to give other skills more use.
With that being said, the system they have planned does seem to be lacking something. It very much has a cool down feeling to it if ultimate is gained purely by major and minor ultimate buff. It could be just fine, just seems a little simplistic at times.
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asteldian✭✭✭✭I support the changes as a PvE playerI support it as pve player. Current way is awful. Heavy emphasis on DoT builds. While the new way may be a bit 'everyone is equal' it is better than the current style.1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.Makes sense in PVP, but not in PVE, all it does in PVE is linearize ult gain and favorize bad players that don't know how to build up ultimate properly.Edited by TehMagnus on January 19, 2015 9:48AM6 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭I support the changes as a PvE playerMakes sense in PVP, but not in PVE, all it does in PVE is linearize ult gain and favorize bad players that don't know how to build up ultimate properly.
Please clarify for us all how stacking crit and healing outside of combat makes you a better player than someone who doesn't use cheesy abuse of game mechanics.
NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/163 -
VileIntent✭✭✭✭dont care either wayForums are full of casuals and pugs... usually the bottom 25% of PvErs.
Because of this, your results will always be skewed. there are easily 1000 people playing end game content who are considering quitting the game because zenimax has decided to #*$@ the good players over by trying to make them the same as n@@bs
Actually forums are mostly of elitists/min maxers. Casuals don't even bother to read patch notes, why would they read forums? The results might be skewed, but only to a point where the disagrees % are too high, if casuals voted you'd see "I don't care" for the majority of the votes.
Othervise I fully support this change as a PvE player.
I went with I don't care because as a pve / pvp player it doesn't effect me much. I still weave in pve and pvp. Block only when I need to. But I like the change because I don't have to worry so much about crit now. Cut back on crit and grab some damage now to up my Dps. It an awesome change! Maybe those in pvp who hold block for everything won't generate the amount of ultimate I do now , giving me the advantage because I haven't formed a muscle memory of holding block like a cheap noob...
Edited by VileIntent on January 19, 2015 10:25AM2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.Makes sense in PVP, but not in PVE, all it does in PVE is linearize ult gain and favorize bad players that don't know how to build up ultimate properly.
Please clarify for us all how stacking crit and healing outside of combat makes you a better player than someone who doesn't use cheesy abuse of game mechanics.
What you call cheesy abuse of game mechanics is actually called skill. It requires skill to understand how ultimate building up is done, it requires skill to theorycraft a build that has enough crit to recover ulti quickly but still does high damage (or high heals). It takes skill to use the correct attacks in the correct rotation or to apply DoTs to enough mobs in order to gain crit quickly.
The only people who are going to be favored by this are noobs who don't know that a crit tick regens 3 ult points or who don't know how to make a viable build with decent crit to regen ultimate.
You could argue it also favors tanks, but then again there where other ways to help them gain ult that didn't involve nerfing everybody else.
Just because you don't know how to do it properly, it doesn't mean people who do are abusing game mechanics
Edited by TehMagnus on January 19, 2015 10:41AM10 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭I support the changes as a PvE playerMakes sense in PVP, but not in PVE, all it does in PVE is linearize ult gain and favorize bad players that don't know how to build up ultimate properly.
Please clarify for us all how stacking crit and healing outside of combat makes you a better player than someone who doesn't use cheesy abuse of game mechanics.
What you call cheesy abuse of game mechanics is actually called skill. It requires skill to understand how ultimate building up is done, it requires skill to theorycraft a build that has enough crit to recover ulti quickly but still does high damage (or high heals). It takes skill to use the correct attacks in the correct rotation or to apply DoTs to enough mobs in order to gain crit quickly.
The only people who are going to be favored by this are noobs who don't know that a crit tick regens 3 ult points or who don't know how to make a viable build with decent crit to regen ultimate.
You could argue it also favors tanks, but then again there where other ways to help them gain ult that didn't involve nerfing everybody else.
Just because you don't know how to do it properly, it doesn't mean people who do are abusing game mechanics
None of that is skill in any sense of the word. Everyone who has put in a reasonable amount of time into the game knows how to build ult and how to do it easily and effectively. It's not skill, it's a combination of experience and a willingness to use cheesy tactics, not skill.
Nobody is going to be favored with this change, period. All this does is promote build diversity instead of forcing people into cookie-cutter builds that rely on ultimate generation for good damage output. The current ult generation system is just a crutch, nothing more.
It does favor tanks as a whole, but there are some fringe cases where tanks can build ultimate extremely quickly, such as some NB tank builds(such as mine before I retired my NB) which can easily drop 5-8 veils during a vet dungeon boss fight. So again, it an equalization of generation that promotes build diversity.
Even a monkey could figure out how to "do it" properly, you give yourself far too much credit, I assure you. If you don't think it's an abuse of a poorly implemented system then I don't believe you're capable of having an intelligent discussion about the issue.
Edited by LtCrunch on January 19, 2015 11:23AMNerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/167 -
Nihil✭✭✭im not sure..until i test it on release.Makes sense in PVP, but not in PVE, all it does in PVE is linearize ult gain and favorize bad players that don't know how to build up ultimate properly.
Please clarify for us all how stacking crit and healing outside of combat makes you a better player than someone who doesn't use cheesy abuse of game mechanics.
What you call cheesy abuse of game mechanics is actually called skill. It requires skill to understand how ultimate building up is done, it requires skill to theorycraft a build that has enough crit to recover ulti quickly but still does high damage (or high heals). It takes skill to use the correct attacks in the correct rotation or to apply DoTs to enough mobs in order to gain crit quickly.
The only people who are going to be favored by this are noobs who don't know that a crit tick regens 3 ult points or who don't know how to make a viable build with decent crit to regen ultimate.
You could argue it also favors tanks, but then again there where other ways to help them gain ult that didn't involve nerfing everybody else.
Just because you don't know how to do it properly, it doesn't mean people who do are abusing game mechanics
... a lot of us do know how it works and have done it before. In my argument for why it COULD be good (not saying it will) I based it on a developmental stand point from the developers. When things get to strong it becomes harder to create mechanics that challenge the players without becoming over the top and relying on said abilities. By limiting the up time of such abilities you will then be able to create encounters that could require more skill and less keep the ultimate up and build it up fast.
Hypothetical example using Negate. Developer wants to create a boss that summons adds regularly that requires players to manage them. He knows that with adds tho a Sorc can keep Negate up almost 100 % if they are not immune to CC's. He then have a choice of adding more adds then the sorc can stun (7+) have them immune to CC, thus making other skills not viable for the match either, or something that I might not be thinking up this early in the morning. But if he didn't have to worry about the constant up time of Negate he could have less mobs be summoned more frequently, where players then could put use to the large sum of CC skills we have to manage them. This can then lead to the sorc not having to spec Negate and try a different ultimate for the build as the dungeon was no longer built with the mind that they had to get around Negate 100 % of the time, and thus making negate less of a necessity.
Also note, that sense before the game was officially release people have been asking about builds and builds have been being posted on forums to give players the knowledge (including rotation) how to perform close to these skilled players, without having to theory craft their own ideas.4 -
Faulgor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.I support some changes - I agree that generating ultimate out of combat needs to be fixed, and crits are currently too important for ultimate generation -, but I don't like the homogenization they propose. I'd rather see different solutions.Alandrol Sul: He's making another Numidium?!?
Vivec: Worse, buddy. They're buying it.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i support the changes as a PvP playerShould bring us more balance in PvP and makes ultimates more unique.
But only if they make some ultimates stronger, that are currently not good and would become even worse after this (Storm Atronach, Overload, Meteor and Dawnbreaker for example)
But I think, this change has potential.Edited by Dracane on January 19, 2015 12:04PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I support the changes as a PvE playerI like it simply because it will make the game a little bit harder and make it more viable to have a good mix of classes in Trials, as you can't use one Funnel Health Nightblade to cover constant veils/one offhealing sorc for negates.. etc. Given current game mechanics it will (at least in my vision of it) put a bigger emphasis on group coordination and communication. Anything that adds at least some challenge while we wait for the next trial is appreciated. 1 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.Makes sense in PVP, but not in PVE, all it does in PVE is linearize ult gain and favorize bad players that don't know how to build up ultimate properly.
Please clarify for us all how stacking crit and healing outside of combat makes you a better player than someone who doesn't use cheesy abuse of game mechanics.
What you call cheesy abuse of game mechanics is actually called skill. It requires skill to understand how ultimate building up is done, it requires skill to theorycraft a build that has enough crit to recover ulti quickly but still does high damage (or high heals). It takes skill to use the correct attacks in the correct rotation or to apply DoTs to enough mobs in order to gain crit quickly.
The only people who are going to be favored by this are noobs who don't know that a crit tick regens 3 ult points or who don't know how to make a viable build with decent crit to regen ultimate.
You could argue it also favors tanks, but then again there where other ways to help them gain ult that didn't involve nerfing everybody else.
Just because you don't know how to do it properly, it doesn't mean people who do are abusing game mechanics
None of that is skill in any sense of the word. Everyone who has put in a reasonable amount of time into the game knows how to build ult and how to do it easily and effectively. It's not skill, it's a combination of experience and a willingness to use cheesy tactics, not skill.
Takes skill to implement rotations, takes skill to know what your build does and if it works. I met a healer who didn't even know that spell damage increased the power of his heals and thus he had a max crit build but an awfull spell damage. Thus even though he could pull Novas out quite fast and easily, his heals sucked and we wiped because of it.
He was ignorant and thus unskilled.Nobody is going to be favored with this change, period. All this does is promote build diversity instead of forcing people into cookie-cutter builds that rely on ultimate generation for good damage output. The current ult generation system is just a crutch, nothing more.
Once again, noobs who don't know how to build ultimate effectively are going to. You can have lots of build diversity that generate equivalent ulti points over time without going into cookie-cutter builds. The fact you think there even are cookie-cutter builds proves you don't really know much about the current ult generation. The system probably favors you which is why you defend it so heartedly.It does favor tanks as a whole, but there are some fringe cases where tanks can build ultimate extremely quickly, such as some NB tank builds(such as mine before I retired my NB) which can easily drop 5-8 veils during a vet dungeon boss fight. So again, it an equalization of generation that promotes build diversity.
Nah it doesn't, all you needed to do was to regen ultimate when blocking and the more damage you blocked, the more ultimate you gained and then you could have all the build diversity you wanted without nerfing good players.Even a monkey could figure out how to "do it" properly, you give yourself far too much credit, I assure you. If you don't think it's an abuse of a poorly implemented system then I don't believe you're capable of having an intelligent discussion about the issue.
When ever people don't like game mechanics, they call it poor implemented system. LOL. In any case, I agree it's not possible to have an intelligent discussion about the issue with the likes of you. I'm dropping banners every ~20s currently and will be dropping them every minute with the new system, whereas noobs with no idea of what they are doing and with sucky builds will now get their ultimates much quicker than before.
I call that a nerf, I call that dumbing down the game, which doesn't surprise me since it's what made Skyrim so successful and brought people who think like you (difficulty & skill = bad mechanics) into the game.
Edited by TehMagnus on January 19, 2015 2:19PM5 -
Lied✭✭✭i support the changes as a PvP playertrimsic_ESO wrote: »im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?
The disconnect is quite easy to define: you are so confident in your reasoning that you don't hear the people who disagree with you, and when someone agrees with you, s/he reinforces your feeling that you are right with your reasoning.
yes the people who are in the top 10 of all the pve leaderboards who give me their opinion and i trust explicitly to give me good advice are of less value to me than some angry casuals. take a nap and a shower to get some of that salt off.
Then why did you bother making a poll on the forums? Why didn't you just scribble down a private poll with the results from your dream-team in your life journal and smile smugly to yourself every time someone on the forum disagrees with you?3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.Makes sense in PVP, but not in PVE, all it does in PVE is linearize ult gain and favorize bad players that don't know how to build up ultimate properly.
Please clarify for us all how stacking crit and healing outside of combat makes you a better player than someone who doesn't use cheesy abuse of game mechanics.
What you call cheesy abuse of game mechanics is actually called skill. It requires skill to understand how ultimate building up is done, it requires skill to theorycraft a build that has enough crit to recover ulti quickly but still does high damage (or high heals). It takes skill to use the correct attacks in the correct rotation or to apply DoTs to enough mobs in order to gain crit quickly.
The only people who are going to be favored by this are noobs who don't know that a crit tick regens 3 ult points or who don't know how to make a viable build with decent crit to regen ultimate.
You could argue it also favors tanks, but then again there where other ways to help them gain ult that didn't involve nerfing everybody else.
Just because you don't know how to do it properly, it doesn't mean people who do are abusing game mechanics
... a lot of us do know how it works and have done it before. In my argument for why it COULD be good (not saying it will) I based it on a developmental stand point from the developers. When things get to strong it becomes harder to create mechanics that challenge the players without becoming over the top and relying on said abilities. By limiting the up time of such abilities you will then be able to create encounters that could require more skill and less keep the ultimate up and build it up fast.
Hypothetical example using Negate. Developer wants to create a boss that summons adds regularly that requires players to manage them. He knows that with adds tho a Sorc can keep Negate up almost 100 % if they are not immune to CC's. He then have a choice of adding more adds then the sorc can stun (7+) have them immune to CC, thus making other skills not viable for the match either, or something that I might not be thinking up this early in the morning. But if he didn't have to worry about the constant up time of Negate he could have less mobs be summoned more frequently, where players then could put use to the large sum of CC skills we have to manage them. This can then lead to the sorc not having to spec Negate and try a different ultimate for the build as the dungeon was no longer built with the mind that they had to get around Negate 100 % of the time, and thus making negate less of a necessity.
Also note, that sense before the game was officially release people have been asking about builds and builds have been being posted on forums to give players the knowledge (including rotation) how to perform close to these skilled players, without having to theory craft their own ideas.
Well, of course everything will change, but with linear ulti gain you will also have more linear strategies, linear timed fights, things will probably be slower, less rushy, less adrenaline pumped.
I don't know if trials will be worse or better, boring or as intense as now, time will tell, but as is, the ult regen change does suck, at least on the paper.
As for giving the ability to create mechanics that challenge, I kinda disagree with that too, Zenimax can create difficult challenges when they want to such as VDSA (pre nerf) or Sanctum, and even more Sanctum Hard Mode...1 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.
I don't disagree with your point (which I think is pretty clear), and that is you don't want Ultimate to be as spammable as it is now, but I do disagree with this change.It all comes down to skilled players won't care. Unskilled players who NEED the Ultimates are, of course, going to care.
I view the Ultimate skill in ESO in the same light as the "2 Hour" ability in FFXI (for those that know that game), in that it's a class-specific 'uber' skill intended for those "Oh sh*t!" moments, as you allude to.
Thing is, FFXI's skill name is because it's on a 2 hour cooldown (or now, after a recent change it's only one hour, but the point's the same). It's therefore hugely non-spammable but you get it automatically when it's off CD.
I think Ultimate should have it's own CD, not be hard or inconvenient to get (as in the case of tanks as you cite), so for me the current method of building it is unnecessary (but lack of CD means it can't be spammed non-stop), but a CD-based solution IMO is better.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on January 19, 2015 2:34PM0 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think I would have preferred a max ult/sec cap instead of a complete rework, thus allowing the same mechanics to be in place, like crit, AoE, damage, blocking etc..
Something like 5-10 max per second would allow for varying builds and still make sure that some ultimates (veil, talons) can only go up once every x amount of time.0 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.
What PVE leaderboards are you referring to here, that feature provably highly-skilled players: hint, the 'speedruns' prove little and certainly say nothing about any specific individual in such groups in any case?trimsic_ESO wrote: »im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?
The disconnect is quite easy to define: you are so confident in your reasoning that you don't hear the people who disagree with you, and when someone agrees with you, s/he reinforces your feeling that you are right with your reasoning.
yes the people who are in the top 10 of all the pve leaderboards
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on January 19, 2015 2:37PM0 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I support the changes as a PvE playerfromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »
What PVE leaderboards are you referring to here, that feature provably highly-skilled players: hint, the 'speedruns' prove little and certainly say nothing about any specific individual in such groups in any case?trimsic_ESO wrote: »im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?
The disconnect is quite easy to define: you are so confident in your reasoning that you don't hear the people who disagree with you, and when someone agrees with you, s/he reinforces your feeling that you are right with your reasoning.
yes the people who are in the top 10 of all the pve leaderboards
If you say that the speedruns prove little, you should be at the top shouldn't you?
Surely they prove that you have the teamwork, coordination, DPS, skills etc. required to not only down it but down it really, really fast and without deaths. That's as much skill as the current PVE content offers.2 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.danno816_ESO wrote: »I think I would have preferred a max ult/sec cap instead of a complete rework, thus allowing the same mechanics to be in place, like crit, AoE, damage, blocking etc..
Something like 5-10 max per second would allow for varying builds and still make sure that some ultimates (veil, talons) can only go up once every x amount of time.
And this is the level of game mechanics knowledge representative of the people that support the change.
Edited by PBpsy on January 19, 2015 2:50PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)1 -
Lied✭✭✭i support the changes as a PvP playerdanno816_ESO wrote: »I think I would have preferred a max ult/sec cap instead of a complete rework, thus allowing the same mechanics to be in place, like crit, AoE, damage, blocking etc..
Something like 5-10 max per second would allow for varying builds and still make sure that some ultimates (veil, talons) can only go up once every x amount of time.
And this is the level of game mechanics knowledge representative of the people that support the change.
actually to be fair, at the time of this posting he didn't actually vote on this poll.2 -
myrrrorb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.I will try out the new system when it comes out. But my initial response is that I don't agree with the new system. I understand and agree that there is a problem with ultimate generation, but it would be better to address the issues in a better method imo. At this point why not just have a cooldown for your ultimate? I would rather have something in place that rewards based off of how well you play your role. Possibly with a cap on the rate. Don't get me wrong, this change will probably benefit me personally, since I generate Ultimate slowly. I just want something better.
My 2 golds worth0 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I support the changes as a PvE playerdanno816_ESO wrote: »I think I would have preferred a max ult/sec cap instead of a complete rework, thus allowing the same mechanics to be in place, like crit, AoE, damage, blocking etc..
Something like 5-10 max per second would allow for varying builds and still make sure that some ultimates (veil, talons) can only go up once every x amount of time.
And this is the level of game mechanics knowledge representative of the people that support the change.
Talons ulti cost too much. Emp only talons every 10 sec. Nerf cost pls.
Also your statement is ridiculous. I'm sure both sides have plenty of people who don't know game mechanics.
I'm fully competent enough to take full advantage of current ultimate generation, and I still don't like it as for me it negates (pun) parts of the PVE endgame mechanics and teamwork requirements. It also forces me to play certain builds such as funnel health and/or healing springs for suppression to make room for more DKs simply because I can regen more ultimate even if the other builds do the same (or higher) DPS/utility and are more fun to play.
It's still not even on PTS yet, so my decision to like it is not even close to final. I still like the sound of it as I envision it to be. It will make life very hard for uncoordinated groups.0 -
Cuyler✭✭✭✭✭
✭im not sure..until i test it on release.OP didn't have a don't like for both PvE/PvP option.
I'm a crit/DoT build so this change is a nerf for me all around, don't like it all. Negative effect for me on PvE is obv.
Anything that makes me less powerful in PvP while at the same time making DKs more powerful (Tanks) is just mind boggling. I mean it already takes 10 players to take down one DK without using a negate.Edited by Cuyler on January 19, 2015 3:02PMGuild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
"How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]0 -
PBpsy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.danno816_ESO wrote: »I think I would have preferred a max ult/sec cap instead of a complete rework, thus allowing the same mechanics to be in place, like crit, AoE, damage, blocking etc..
Something like 5-10 max per second would allow for varying builds and still make sure that some ultimates (veil, talons) can only go up once every x amount of time.
And this is the level of game mechanics knowledge representative of the people that support the change.
Talons ulti cost too much. Emp only talons every 10 sec. Nerf cost pls.
Also your statement is ridiculous. I'm sure both sides have plenty of people who don't know game mechanics.
I'm fully competent enough to take full advantage of current ultimate generation, and I still don't like it as for me it negates (pun) parts of the PVE endgame mechanics and teamwork requirements. It also forces me to play certain builds such as funnel health and/or healing springs for suppression to make room for more DKs simply because I can regen more ultimate even if the other builds do the same (or higher) DPS/utility and are more fun to play.
It's still not even on PTS yet, so my decision to like it is not even close to final. I still like the sound of it as I envision it to be. It will make life very hard for uncoordinated groups.
That is complete BS. The only place where that type of heavy support NB build is required may be SO and it is certainly not something that the game forces you but whatever guild group you may be in. I for one enjoy playing that type of build because it does make part of endgame mechanics and actually is teamwork.However I am not forced into it as a NB if you go on YT you will find just a couple of dozens of Stamina DW/Bow NB videos completing the damn thing with very good dps.
Another thing that you actually admitted. The best NB support build(70%crit funnel, resto) is actually very far bellow in the dps department(DW,Bow destro). Those builds will not suffer in the slightest while a type of high support medium dps build will be rendered completely useless.
The ultimate change will not bring more diversity it will just make the highest raw dps build always be the only option.Edited by PBpsy on January 19, 2015 3:23PMESO forums achievementsProud fanboiElitist jerkTrollHaterFan of icontested(rainbow colors granted)3 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭i support the changes as a PvP playerLame. I pvp and pve. In both cases I support the decision.1 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭i support the changes as a PvP playertrimsic_ESO wrote: »im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?
The disconnect is quite easy to define: you are so confident in your reasoning that you don't hear the people who disagree with you, and when someone agrees with you, s/he reinforces your feeling that you are right with your reasoning.
yes the people who are in the top 10 of all the pve leaderboards who give me their opinion and i trust explicitly to give me good advice are of less value to me than some angry casuals. take a nap and a shower to get some of that salt off.
If you did not want the opinions of casuals... then why did you even make this poll to begin with? To troll? just for the sake of arguing?
Its a shame you only listen to the top 10 PvErs on the leaderboards, as they make up such a small percentage of the player base(and honestly, they run FoTM builds to speed run trials. For all we know, they could care less about balance in the game; they will likely just switch to the next best thing with 1.6 without a second thought, balance be danged)
if you only want the opinions of the "Elite" then don't make a public poll. You will have people who disagree with you. I understand you think you are too good for that: I get it, but it will happen anyway.Edited by Cody on January 19, 2015 4:44PM4 -
Sasky✭✭✭I support the changes as a PvE playerAnd this is the level of game mechanics knowledge representative of the people that support the change.
So what if someone doesn't know another class? It's less egregious than someone 'top of the PvE leaderboard' getting the rate of ultimate generation wrong. If it really required number crunching and work as opposed to looking up builds, something like a 3 ult/crit to 1 ult/crit difference would put the build well out of line.
Ultimate generation is terribly broken. A single templar without much more crit than magelight can easily drop Nova (300 base cost) every ground pound on the stone atronach. High-crit nightblades can keep veil of blades up 100% of the time in AoE situations.
A secondary way to generate ultimate (based on % damage done/healed) is almost entirely ignored in any theorycrafting discussions because the number of crits is such a dominant component in ultimate generation. They already reduced the ultimate for crit as much as possible without removing it or putting in some complicated caps.
Besides, a major emphasis they've noted in 1.6 has been in making the mechanics clearer. (As PTS isn't out, this is from comments made in preview posts, ESOLive, etc.) They're fundamentally linked the stats for the different skills: stamina, weapon power, and weapon damage always go together. They're reworking tooltips to make them clearer on what the skill does. They're making it so synergies are all instant and beneficial. They're extending this to ultimates as well: making a system that's easier to balance and easier to understand.
Finally, if you're good at figuring out game mechanics, you'll be faster out of the gate in 1.6 to finding the stronger builds. It's not so much the theorycrafters who'll be upset by changes (there's a completely new playground); it's the "me too" people who just copy the fotm builds that'll have to wait for new guides.3 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I support the changes as a PvE playerdanno816_ESO wrote: »I think I would have preferred a max ult/sec cap instead of a complete rework, thus allowing the same mechanics to be in place, like crit, AoE, damage, blocking etc..
Something like 5-10 max per second would allow for varying builds and still make sure that some ultimates (veil, talons) can only go up once every x amount of time.
And this is the level of game mechanics knowledge representative of the people that support the change.
Talons ulti cost too much. Emp only talons every 10 sec. Nerf cost pls.
Also your statement is ridiculous. I'm sure both sides have plenty of people who don't know game mechanics.
I'm fully competent enough to take full advantage of current ultimate generation, and I still don't like it as for me it negates (pun) parts of the PVE endgame mechanics and teamwork requirements. It also forces me to play certain builds such as funnel health and/or healing springs for suppression to make room for more DKs simply because I can regen more ultimate even if the other builds do the same (or higher) DPS/utility and are more fun to play.
It's still not even on PTS yet, so my decision to like it is not even close to final. I still like the sound of it as I envision it to be. It will make life very hard for uncoordinated groups.
That is complete BS. The only place where that type of heavy support NB build is required may be SO and it is certainly not something that the game forces you but whatever guild group you may be in. I for one enjoy playing that type of build because it does make part of endgame mechanics and actually is teamwork.However I am not forced into it as a NB if you go on YT you will find just a couple of dozens of Stamina DW/Bow NB videos completing the damn thing with very good dps.
Another thing that you actually admitted. The best NB support build(70%crit funnel, resto) is actually very far bellow in the dps department(DW,Bow destro). Those builds will not suffer in the slightest while a type of high support medium dps build will be rendered completely useless.
The ultimate change will not bring more diversity it will just make the highest raw dps build always be the only option.
OK, I don't know how unclear I was.. obviously I know that it's not the highest DPS. What I'm saying is I'd much rather go crushing shock, or a higher DPS build, but to do speedruns that is not an option because that spot would be for a DK instead. So basically, if NB then funnel, otherwise relog to DK. That was what I was saying. Now luckily I don't actually have it that bad.. but if you want to compete at the absolute highest level it is still what it is.
In case that wasn't obvious the reason for funnel would be to eliminate one of the healer spots and at the same time keep full uptime on veils. Well, we actually did AA that way without any healers.. but yeah. My point still stands, this will force class diversity as you cannot have only one of the classes and still rely on their ultimate.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I dont support the changes as a PvE player.People are getting way too hung up on HOW ultimate is generated and ignoring what's really important: how OFTEN do you get to use ultimates? I hate the new system not because of how it's implemented, but because ultimates are now temporally "hard-capped". You will never be able to use ultimates after 1.6 as fast as you can now, and that fact is going to totally screw up this game for a huge number of people, whether they know yet it or not.
What is the point of having ultimates, if you can only use them once in a blue moon? When I'm soloing brutal veteran group dungeons, my sorc does NOT have 60 seconds to wait for the next Negate... she will die, it's that simple. Once 1.6 goes live, the backlash over ultimate generation is going to be HUGE. The only way I think ZoS can fix it is to make ultimates much cheaper so you can use them every 20 seconds or so (like now).Edited by Emma_Overload on January 19, 2015 5:38PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE4