Do you support the Ult gain changes ( sorted by PvE / PvP )

Heishi

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

I do support A change in ultimate gain to make it take a bit longer to get ready and maybe make it more.. ultimate. Maybe even group attacks besides the hit x to stomp. Or both

I just don't support the change as has been outlined and hinted at.

pppontus

I support the changes as a PvE player

PBpsy wrote: »

I really think you are overestimating the utility of FH especially for 1.6 where Temps will be more required for Novas and are supposedly getting a few buffs.. Even now I do not see my residual heals HF making much of a difference inside trials (although noticeable in all 4 man content). I do not see much chance for that type of build. It wouldn't be much of a problem since I do have also have a Redguard DW dumb DPS NB but it certainly will not be as fun as my lower dps support NB that actually allowed DW NB to not bother with freaking Veils

I think you are underestimating it! We did AA flawlessly with no healers just using 3 (I think it was 3.. somewhere 2-4 at least) NBs with FH.

AssaultLemming wrote: »

For me personally this change sucks. My current fh sap veil build is ruined, the hundreds of k invested in gold gear wasted and my favourite play style and group role gone. I was really enjoying playing a mid dps support class role, providing a lot of off heals and damage mitigation while still contributing some dps. Now it looks like a full respec, totally new gear and join the max dps or gtfo crowd is on the cards. Basically back to square one after being a loyal subscriber since beta.

My nb has 10 bits of gold gear with gold enchantments, at 25k per piece + 3k per enchant that is 280k gold on what are now probably non viable bits of gear. Where's my compensation for that?

That would be so called spell damage gear? I have good news for you... it will be good for all magicka builds in 1.6...

I have 5 characters all outfitted with great and really, really expensive gear.. much of it will probably be obsolete (magicka NB, sorc and DK all have weapon power gear etc.) but that is what happens. Adapt and move on.

Tankqull

i support the changes as a PvP player

Shunravi wrote: »

Let me summarize my biggest concern about the change.

Currently, if you have a correctly speced sap/funnel blade in your group, it is pretty much guarenteed that he will have veil ready when you need it. Solo. If you are in a solid group, other nightblades in the group have the option to run another ultimate.

If the NB sap/funnel build cannot gain ultimate in said fashion, this optional ultimate allowance for nightblades will be gone. It truly will be veil or gtfo.

Any complaints I have are not 'Waaaah! I won't be able to spam ultimates!' But instead, 'I'm deeply concerned about viable build diversity.'

what all of you "crying" about theses changes as a magica NB forget is the positive side effect of that change.
as the DPS of both main DDs will drop significantly by less veils/standards fights will last longer longer fights resulting in much more needed heals as the bosses have more time delivering it and you will see more usage of equilibrium wich aswell needs more HP compensation.
seeing my NB have 2,5k HP/s while doing fine (though not great) in the dmg department is a big bonus point you forgett wihle beeing focused only on DPS.

Shunravi

im not sure..until i test it on release.

Tankqull wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Let me summarize my biggest concern about the change.

Currently, if you have a correctly speced sap/funnel blade in your group, it is pretty much guarenteed that he will have veil ready when you need it. Solo. If you are in a solid group, other nightblades in the group have the option to run another ultimate.

If the NB sap/funnel build cannot gain ultimate in said fashion, this optional ultimate allowance for nightblades will be gone. It truly will be veil or gtfo.

Any complaints I have are not 'Waaaah! I won't be able to spam ultimates!' But instead, 'I'm deeply concerned about viable build diversity.'

what all of you "crying" about theses changes as a magica NB forget is the positive side effect of that change.
as the DPS of both main DDs will drop significantly by less veils/standards fights will last longer longer fights resulting in much more needed heals as the bosses have more time delivering it and you will see more usage of equilibrium wich aswell needs more HP compensation.
seeing my NB have 2,5k HP/s while doing fine (though not great) in the dmg department is a big bonus point you forgett wihle beeing focused only on DPS.

Good on you latching onto the word 'crying.' But you are correct, offhealing/self healing values will probably become more important. Especially with no veil to consistently mitigate damage. I'm not forgetting that point. My other damage specs are not reliant on veil for their damage, only my veil-gen spec is.

This, and them saying that they are keeping abilities and passives that generate ult, is why I voted to wait untill pts to pass judgement. I'm merely voicing concern based on the current meta.

Tankqull

i support the changes as a PvP player

Shunravi wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Let me summarize my biggest concern about the change.

Currently, if you have a correctly speced sap/funnel blade in your group, it is pretty much guarenteed that he will have veil ready when you need it. Solo. If you are in a solid group, other nightblades in the group have the option to run another ultimate.

If the NB sap/funnel build cannot gain ultimate in said fashion, this optional ultimate allowance for nightblades will be gone. It truly will be veil or gtfo.

Any complaints I have are not 'Waaaah! I won't be able to spam ultimates!' But instead, 'I'm deeply concerned about viable build diversity.'

what all of you "crying" about theses changes as a magica NB forget is the positive side effect of that change.
as the DPS of both main DDs will drop significantly by less veils/standards fights will last longer longer fights resulting in much more needed heals as the bosses have more time delivering it and you will see more usage of equilibrium wich aswell needs more HP compensation.
seeing my NB have 2,5k HP/s while doing fine (though not great) in the dmg department is a big bonus point you forgett wihle beeing focused only on DPS.

Good on you latching onto the word 'crying.' But you are correct, offhealing/self healing values will probably become more important. Especially with no veil to consistently mitigate damage. I'm not forgetting that point. My other damage specs are not reliant on veil for their damage, only my veil-gen spec is.

This, and them saying that they are keeping abilities and passives that generate ult, is why I voted to wait untill pts to pass judgement. I'm merely voicing concern based on the current meta.

well but the whole purpose of the change is to actually break up the current meta.
so basing a standpoint upon it is rather futile...

BBSooner

I support the changes as a PvE player

Thus far I am fine with the proposed change to ultimate generation. By putting it to a metric instead of various gains by type, damage, crit, etc. they are able to ensure that ultimate generation has both a floor and a ceiling. It allows content to continue to be designed moving forward without player reliance on using a skill which (I can only infer from their descriptions of what it should be and the value that they themselves bring) is meant to be both valuable and uncommon as opposed to a spell fired off every 15-20 seconds.

The added rarity of ultimates will force players to use their ultimates as a reactive skill, instead of a quickly occurring proactive skill - at least to a greater degree than it is now.

Shunravi

im not sure..until i test it on release.

Tankqull wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Tankqull wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Let me summarize my biggest concern about the change.

Currently, if you have a correctly speced sap/funnel blade in your group, it is pretty much guarenteed that he will have veil ready when you need it. Solo. If you are in a solid group, other nightblades in the group have the option to run another ultimate.

If the NB sap/funnel build cannot gain ultimate in said fashion, this optional ultimate allowance for nightblades will be gone. It truly will be veil or gtfo.

Any complaints I have are not 'Waaaah! I won't be able to spam ultimates!' But instead, 'I'm deeply concerned about viable build diversity.'

what all of you "crying" about theses changes as a magica NB forget is the positive side effect of that change.
as the DPS of both main DDs will drop significantly by less veils/standards fights will last longer longer fights resulting in much more needed heals as the bosses have more time delivering it and you will see more usage of equilibrium wich aswell needs more HP compensation.
seeing my NB have 2,5k HP/s while doing fine (though not great) in the dmg department is a big bonus point you forgett wihle beeing focused only on DPS.

Good on you latching onto the word 'crying.' But you are correct, offhealing/self healing values will probably become more important. Especially with no veil to consistently mitigate damage. I'm not forgetting that point. My other damage specs are not reliant on veil for their damage, only my veil-gen spec is.

This, and them saying that they are keeping abilities and passives that generate ult, is why I voted to wait untill pts to pass judgement. I'm merely voicing concern based on the current meta.

well but the whole purpose of the change is to actually break up the current meta.
so basing a standpoint upon it is rather futile...

Quite so. Which is why I'm saying it's a concern. I'm expanding on the point of view on ult gain beyond what I feel others have done. I'm honestly looking forward to it myself.

I just hope this shift from the current meta does not make builds more rerestrictive. In my other posts I elaborate on this concept more. If it does indeed work to constrict endgame viability, then I feel that it is a more than valid standpoint to base an opinion off of.

Emma_Overload

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

When I'm soloing brutal veteran group dungeons, my sorc does NOT have 60 seconds to wait for the next Negate... she will die, it's that simple. Once 1.6 goes live, the backlash over ultimate generation is going to be HUGE. The only way I think ZoS can fix it is to make ultimates much cheaper so you can use them every 20 seconds or so (like now).

Should we really be able to do this?

Why souldn't we?

Mostly because it trivializes group content? Which lead to fewer groups doing stuff, which leads to ESO getting a reputation that it has no challenging content for groups, which leads to fewer subs, which leads to a dead game.

LotRO. Anyone else know what I mean?

If ZoS is worried about "trivializing" group content, the solution is SIMPLE: scale the difficulty of the instance to the level of the party and the SIZE of the party. I'm sure they easily could come up with an algorithm to adjust mob HP/damage to the number of players if they wanted.

This way, solo players and groups of ALL sizes would have a fun and challenging game to play, and no one would feel like they're being punished for grouping or not grouping.

NotSo

i support the changes as a PvP player

I think the ulimates should be on a timer anyways, if this is how that timer is implemented so be it.

Shunravi

im not sure..until i test it on release.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

When I'm soloing brutal veteran group dungeons, my sorc does NOT have 60 seconds to wait for the next Negate... she will die, it's that simple. Once 1.6 goes live, the backlash over ultimate generation is going to be HUGE. The only way I think ZoS can fix it is to make ultimates much cheaper so you can use them every 20 seconds or so (like now).

Should we really be able to do this?

Why souldn't we?

Mostly because it trivializes group content? Which lead to fewer groups doing stuff, which leads to ESO getting a reputation that it has no challenging content for groups, which leads to fewer subs, which leads to a dead game.

LotRO. Anyone else know what I mean?

If ZoS is worried about "trivializing" group content, the solution is SIMPLE: scale the difficulty of the instance to the level of the party and the SIZE of the party. I'm sure they easily could come up with an algorithm to adjust mob HP/damage to the number of players if they wanted.

This way, solo players and groups of ALL sizes would have a fun and challenging game to play, and no one would feel like they're being punished for grouping or not grouping.

If they could do it, that would be great.

And cross faction grouping... That would also be great.

hrothbern

I support the changes as a PvE player

Emma_EunjungEmma_Eunjung ✭
7:22PM edited 7:30PM
I dont support the changes as a PvE player.
danno816_ESO wrote: »
» show previous quotes

Mostly because it trivializes group content? Which lead to fewer groups doing stuff, which leads to ESO getting a reputation that it has no challenging content for groups, which leads to fewer subs, which leads to a dead game.

LotRO. Anyone else know what I mean?

If ZoS is worried about "trivializing" group content, the solution is SIMPLE: scale the difficulty of the instance to the level of the party and the SIZE of the party. I'm sure they easily could come up with an algorithm to adjust mob HP/damage to the number of players if they wanted.

This way, solo players and groups of ALL sizes would have a fun and challenging game to play, and no one would feel like they're being punished for grouping or not grouping.


I very much agree.. and to add to it:

Have the right challenge for all kinds of players & all sizes of group is pretty much fundamental!!!!
There are players complaining about not enough challenge
there are many players, more casual, that will dislike to deform their preferred build only to be able to perform decently in high level end content
There are players that would like to group in pairs or trio's, just because they are friends, or solo for the fun
AND do the difficult Group Dungeons

By some way to adjust the difficulty of a group content to who want to do it.... the content and challenge richdom is very much bigger at little expense for ZOS

And again.... Cross faction grouping is an improvement: I can play easier with my friends
A pub around the corner of group dungeons to team up with people there to go in is an improvement: I can do the group dungeon when I have time

NobleX35

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

I don't support the idea in it's base form in either PvE or PvP. I think it would make a lot more sense and be a much more viable change if they change the buff from applying only on light attacks and people who have healed someone with the buff active to one of the following conditions:

1 - The player has dealt any sort of damage to a target via skills or light/heavy attack.
2 - While in combat, the player has healed a player other than themselves
3 - The player recently blocked an incoming attack

Bonus grants 1 or 2 additional ultimate gain to the buff on the next application
* - The player recently activated a synergy
* - The player recently performed a successful dodge roll/CC break.

This change will still keep ultimate gains controlled, but actually benefits all 3 roles in a much more meaningful and beneficial way. It also provides incentives to try to play or lean to play more skillfully.

Shunravi

im not sure..until i test it on release.

GothicPython wrote: »

I don't support the idea in it's base form in either PvE or PvP. I think it would make a lot more sense and be a much more viable change if they change the buff from applying only on light attacks and people who have healed someone with the buff active to one of the following conditions:

1 - The player has dealt any sort of damage to a target via skills or light/heavy attack.
2 - While in combat, the player has healed a player other than themselves
3 - The player recently blocked an incoming attack

Bonus grants 1 or 2 additional ultimate gain to the buff on the next application
* - The player recently activated a synergy
* - The player recently performed a successful dodge roll/CC break.

This change will still keep ultimate gains controlled, but actually benefits all 3 roles in a much more meaningful and beneficial way. It also provides incentives to try to play or lean to play more skillfully.

Very nice suggestion. I like it.