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Folium Discognitum - 2 Skillpoints that you never will get [Mages Guild Spoilers]
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Knootewoot wrote: »...
There are also people who never want to PvP. They will miss out around 50 skill points i think. One per rank.
...
They will miss out on skill points, but they will also miss out on spending 24 skill points maxing out everything in the Alliance War skill lines.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Aeratus✭✭✭✭✭
Even if have 0 points in crafting and 0 points in Emperor, you would need 375 skillpoints to have everything that is combat related.I have over 290 points, too. But if you have many setups you could need more.
3 x 20 = 60 - all class lines
6 x 20 = 180 - all weapon lines
3 x 13 = 39 - all armor lines
15 - vampire
16 - fighters guild (excluding useless skills)
18 - mage's guild (excluding useless skills)
14 - all undaunted
2 x 12 = 24 - assault and support
9 - racial passives
Total: 3753 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Even if have 0 points in crafting and 0 points in Emperor, you would need 375 skillpoints to have everything that is combat related.I have over 290 points, too. But if you have many setups you could need more.
3 x 20 = 60 - all class lines
6 x 20 = 180 - all weapon lines
3 x 13 = 39 - all armor lines
15 - vampire
16 - fighters guild (excluding useless skills)
18 - mage's guild (excluding useless skills)
14 - all undaunted
2 x 12 = 24 - assault and support
9 - racial passives
Total: 375
Viewing the issue in this light makes the difference between 290 and 292 look even less valuable than my previous thoughts.
"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
4 -
Amsel_McKay✭✭✭✭✭You get eidetic memory regardless of what you choose. If you save Valaste you get a staff instead of 2 skill points.
The thing is, that's precisely the point of the quest. You can either do the wrong thing and benefit from it, or not a suck it up. IMHO it is masterfully done, and I applaud Zenimax for adding this kind of moral choice to a MMORPG. Most developers don't have the balls to actually handicap you for doing the right thing, even when the very definition of "the right thing" implies that there's an easier or more rewarding way.
In any case, 2 SP aren't worth that much in a game with hundreds of them.
How is it the wrong choice?
You are not really "Saving" Valaste... I mean she is either going to spend forever reading books in the mages guild (boring) or lead a cheese filled life of adventure with Sheogorath...
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Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Valencer:
1-2% damage would not matter, too. The different between epic and legendary does not matter, too. Many things give you just a little bonus, but there are many players that want to optimize theis character. Hard to understand?
The difference here is that the 2 skill points have absolutely no impact on your performance while doing PvE or PvP activities at any time, whereas 1-2% damage or an upgraded weapon does (little as it may be).
There's waaaaay more skill points than you'll ever need for a fully optimized combat build with several crafts maxed.
Edited by Valencer on January 18, 2015 7:13PM2 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hey,
during the quest "Mad God's Bargain" you can decide getting the book "Folium Discognitum" or saving Valaste.
If you DON'T save her you can read the book and you will get 2 Skillpoints.
If you save her (imo the "good" decission if you think about moral and stuff like this) you will get nothing.
2 Skillpoints for decide not to save someone. There is not written that your "good" choice will cost you 2 Skillpoints.
Where is my mistake? Or it this really the reallity??
Zenimax, can you answer?
Regards
Lorion
I am glad I did this quest a long time ago before you spoiled it on the forums. It is the only meaningful quest line in the game where there are real pros and cons to your decision like a real Elder Scrolls game.
With the rest of the quests in the game it doesn't really matter what you do. If spoiled/entitled players didn't exist, we might have more meaningful quest lines in the game like this one.
Edited by timidobserver on January 18, 2015 7:16PMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
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V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
✭As far as I'm concerned I DID save Valaste. Did you see how happy she was about the butterflies? And seriously, Sheogorath is one of the best Daedric Princes in TES, who wouldn't want to spend eternity doing all kinds of crazy things... And then there's the cheese
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tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am not seeing the problem here. Sheogorath tells you that you will get a couple of skill points *if* you let the mage go with him. It isn't a surprise. It's part of the tempting offer. You choose whether you want those points or to make what the scenario sets up as the moral choice. And yes, the title should have a spoiler warning for newer players.❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Spoiler warning!
I think that it's interesting what one's response to a choice says about them as a person. There have been plenty of places where I was offered a "choice" and reacted according to my character's morals/ sense of self, only to have the NPC's take it in some direction that I didn't expect.
Can't recall the Auridon quest where some mage turns folks to stone to protect them from something dangerous that he stupidly set in motion. My character wouldn't lie to save him, and sort of thought he should face the death penalty for his actions. But when the NPC/high honcho kills the guy it's not about morals, it's essentially to save face in the greater political climate.
Just felt .... unpleasant
As for saving/not saving Valeste ... is it abetting kidnapping? Is it potentially murder? All this because of my reaction to a bribe .... I think it's an interesting question/opportunity. That's the ES I know and love.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Lhorion,
It's actually written there. When Sheo is talking to you, he's telling you that this book has power of 6 of those stones that you find in tamriel.. or something like that.
Basically, he's telling you that the book = 6 skyshards (1skill point =3skyshards, so the book is equal to 2 skill points).
I'm pretty sure I recall that I was aware that the choice might cost me 2 skill points.
Just did the quest 2 days ago. He tells you *twice* about the skillpoints trade for Valaste.
It is very clear what you get for each choice.
And really this is a no-brainer, Valaste did nothing to deserve being left a mental case and stuck with Sheo.
But 2 Skillpoints! Sorry Valaste. Enjoy the butterflies!
@Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)8 -
Rosveen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I have all class skills maxed, three weapons, three armor types, three crafts + hirelings in the others, actives and passives here and there in world, guild and alliance lines. And I haven't even finished Gold or collected all skyshards yet. By the time I'm done, I'll have more points than I need.
I saved Valaste. I don't need those 2 extra points.3 -
Arki✭✭✭Don't change this! It felt just perfect for an elder scrolls game. Sometimes doing good means you have to sacrifice something, there are no win-win-scenarioes in a true elder scrolls game.
This is not e-sport, it's supposed to be an immersive experience in a strange and fascinating world. Don't dumb everything down to how much xp/skills you get.
I saved Valaste knowing i would lose those two skillpoints. I hope those that took the book did that because that suited their character in game, not because "omg i cannot miss out on getting two skill points out of almost 300". If not I hope at least they felt a little dirty afterwards
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Arki✭✭✭As far as I'm concerned I DID save Valaste. Did you see how happy she was about the butterflies? And seriously, Sheogorath is one of the best Daedric Princes in TES, who wouldn't want to spend eternity doing all kinds of crazy things... And then there's the cheese
Hehe ye, it actually isn't as straightforward as it may appear. I mean, if someone is happy as a madman, why should one force sanity upon him/her?
In the end I thought that Valaste had to make the choice herself in her own mind, but i really liked the dilemma. More like this please!2 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭It doesn't work to do the quest with an alt because the book is bound to the character's inventory thus can't go in the bank. Confirmed this week. This quest is ridiculous. My main have 285 points today and I do miss the 2 other. I can't give a f*** about the choice, just that I did over 1,500 quests in this game and this was the only one who excluded you from getting 2 points. How in Oblivion was I to know that disaster would happen? Now my main character is crippled forever because STUPID game design. Should be in red letters "YOU WILL LOSE 2 SKILL POINTS TO SAVE THIS *** NPC" and yes this is game breaking. Having maxed all weapons, armours, crafting and guilds in my main I need all points I can get. I hope this crap gets addressed soon in a reward that grants the points to who saved the stupid Altmer. Won't restart my character because 12,000 achievement points and married with Pledge of Mara.6 -
Wolfsspinne✭✭✭How in Oblivion was I to know that disaster would happen? Now my main character is crippled forever because STUPID game design. Should be in red letters "YOU WILL LOSE 2 SKILL POINTS TO SAVE THIS *** NPC"
All choices are in red letters, so is this one.
Sheogorath said it twice after all.
And even if you ask the NPC you "save" so heroically she says she wants to go with Uncle Sheo. It's almost like everything in that quests yells "Take those damned skill points!"1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wolfsspinne wrote: »How in Oblivion was I to know that disaster would happen? Now my main character is crippled forever because STUPID game design. Should be in red letters "YOU WILL LOSE 2 SKILL POINTS TO SAVE THIS *** NPC"
All choices are in red letters, so is this one.
Sheogorath said it twice after all.
And even if you ask the NPC you "save" so heroically she says she wants to go with Uncle Sheo. It's almost like everything in that quests yells "Take those damned skill points!"
Until you actually save her, at which point she comments on the feeling that a fog has lifted from her mind and she can think clearly again.
But yes, while her mind is under the manipulation of Sheogorath she refers to wanting to go with him."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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MercutioElessar✭✭✭✭✭You'll get the same, my answer here as you got in the german forums:
That's one of very few quests in the whole game that do end in different ways and on different terms of a deal. One you really have to know that your desicion can and will have konsequences.
From my point of view there are far not enough of such quests in TESO.
That's as much reality as it is on other stations in the game.
And by the way, spoken from personal experience. A "hero" is someone who is responsible for other peoples death.If I've ever offended you,
just know that from the bottom of my heart,
I really don't give a ***.1441 -
Cously✭✭✭✭✭
✭Wolfsspinne wrote: »How in Oblivion was I to know that disaster would happen? Now my main character is crippled forever because STUPID game design. Should be in red letters "YOU WILL LOSE 2 SKILL POINTS TO SAVE THIS *** NPC"
All choices are in red letters, so is this one.
Sheogorath said it twice after all.
And even if you ask the NPC you "save" so heroically she says she wants to go with Uncle Sheo. It's almost like everything in that quests yells "Take those damned skill points!"
I don't care if the choices are in red letters that is not what I meant. What I meant in red letters was a quest text saying YOU WILL LOSE TWO SKILL POINTS. I know very well red letters means quest choices. But should be stated that over 1,000 quests this is the only one that you will lose two skill points picking a choice.
Also the only reason she want to go with him is because she is mad.
Bad designed quest.4 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ah, this brings back memories of the same exact complaint a few weeks after release.
OP, et al: if you failed to read/listen, that's not a design issue. Sheogorath is extremely clear about what the book is worth (half a dozen skyshards). If you chose to ignore that or simply glossed over it, that's on you. ZO should have more quests like this, if anything, to encourage people to actually engage with their quests rather than mindlessly click through dialogue options.----
Murray?4 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hey,
during the quest "Mad God's Bargain" you can decide getting the book "Folium Discognitum" or saving Valaste.
If you DON'T save her you can read the book and you will get 2 Skillpoints.
If you save her (imo the "good" decission if you think about moral and stuff like this) you will get nothing.
2 Skillpoints for decide not to save someone. There is not written that your "good" choice will cost you 2 Skillpoints.
I have yet to see a situation where picking the "moral" choice does not cost you something. If it didn't, then it'd be a no brainer to always be moral and there'd be no virtue into going for it.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
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Wolfsspinne✭✭✭Wolfsspinne wrote: »How in Oblivion was I to know that disaster would happen? Now my main character is crippled forever because STUPID game design. Should be in red letters "YOU WILL LOSE 2 SKILL POINTS TO SAVE THIS *** NPC"
All choices are in red letters, so is this one.
Sheogorath said it twice after all.
And even if you ask the NPC you "save" so heroically she says she wants to go with Uncle Sheo. It's almost like everything in that quests yells "Take those damned skill points!"
I don't care if the choices are in red letters that is not what I meant. What I meant in red letters was a quest text saying YOU WILL LOSE TWO SKILL POINTS. I know very well red letters means quest choices. But should be stated that over 1,000 quests this is the only one that you will lose two skill points picking a choice.
Also the only reason she want to go with him is because she is mad.
Bad designed quest.
You don't "lose" them since they aren't taken from you.
But you get them only for making the choice that is said to grant you additional skill points.
Maybe this is how the developers want to reward those who listen to the quest dialogs.
Anyways, two skill points is like two inventory spaces... mere comfort.
In a game where you can use as many skills as you like I'd be on your side but not in ESO.1 -
LtCrunch✭✭✭✭✭
✭My NB took the skillpoints. My templar won't be.NerdSauce GamingLaughs-At-Wounds - Sap tanking since 03/30/14ßrandalf - Light armor tanking since 03/03/15Brandalf Beer-Belly - Tanking drunk since 12/30/161 -
Breg_Magol✭✭✭✭... I can't give a f*** about the choice, just that I did over 1,500 quests in this game and this was the only one who excluded you from getting 2 points. How in Oblivion was I to know that disaster would happen? Now my main character is crippled forever because STUPID game design. Should be in red letters "YOU WILL LOSE 2 SKILL POINTS TO SAVE THIS *** NPC" and yes this is game breaking.
You would've known by listening and/or reading the dialogue!
However, after re-reading your post, my suspicion is that you probably don't read or listen to any of the dialogue in ESO.
The game is designed for you (the player) to participate in the quests .. even if you only just do them once through. So in my opinion, like it or lump it .. stop being a flippin' cry baby, it's just a game.
Edited by Breg_Magol on January 19, 2015 2:26AM2 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, this is unacceptable! They should tell you what game benefit you'll only be getting as a reward if you do what Sheo wants! In fact, they should tell you twice! What's that? They do?
Well, they should put the choices in red so that you know for sure that there's no going back once you've made the choice! What's that? They do that too?
Well, I don't care, I want it anyway! I refuse to live in a world where choices that I make have consequences! I need to have my hand held through everything and get everything handed to me on a silver platter!
Sheesh, kids these days...
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Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭Amsel_McKay wrote: »You are not really "Saving" Valaste... I mean she is either going to spend forever reading books in the mages guild (boring) or lead a cheese filled life of adventure with Sheogorath...
boring books :'( The thing is to her they are not boring, they are a warm, welcoming world. Kinda like how non-gamers view gamers...
Four times I've gotten there and I love Sheo and the butterflies but I can't let him have her, and her gratefulness when her mind clears from his madness reaffirms she is happy with her books.
Or think of it this way, how many video games features at some point in time came from boring old books?
If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!1 -
Iago✭✭✭✭✭Psychobunni wrote: »Amsel_McKay wrote: »You are not really "Saving" Valaste... I mean she is either going to spend forever reading books in the mages guild (boring) or lead a cheese filled life of adventure with Sheogorath...
boring books :'( The thing is to her they are not boring, they are a warm, welcoming world. Kinda like how non-gamers view gamers...
Four times I've gotten there and I love Sheo and the butterflies but I can't let him have her, and her gratefulness when her mind clears from his madness reaffirms she is happy with her books.
Or think of it this way, how many video games features at some point in time came from boring old books?
I always let him keep her.
on another note missing 2 skill points really isn't the end of the world. as it stands now I have a surplus of 20 skill points I have nothing to do with.That which we obtain to cheap we esteem to lightly, it is dearness only that gives everything its value.
-Thomas Pain0 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭
on another note missing 2 skill points really isn't the end of the world. as it stands now I have a surplus of 20 skill points I have nothing to do with.
Aye, I spread my crafting out and one of my toons is Resto/Resto healer...she has almost 40 skill points unused *atm*. She is the highest. I could use some on hirelings or w/e but I don't want hassled with the mails tbh.
It all depends on what you are after, however I don't believe there should be so many skill points available that one toon can do everything, which is how the OP seemed to want it.
If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!0 -
Solanum✭✭✭In my opinion the eidetic memory should be reserved only for those whom forfeit the two skill points. But even without that, I don't think the two skillpoints matter that much.
Still, by actually not granting that "power" to players whom decide to do the morally right thing to do they give the choice some meaning. I approve of this.1
This discussion has been closed.