Do you support the Ult gain changes ( sorted by PvE / PvP )

Joejudas · January 2015

It's coming either way....I just figured some feedback might be nice. Do you support the changes to ult gain that make ult a flat gain rate. I'll keep my opinion out if it.

Layenem · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

I know a lot of people think this was some hatred mechanic by ZOS, and I'm sure there will be people who believe it to be so and will undoubtedly argue to no end about it. I just don't see it. It's been used to completely undermine mechanics in AA and Hel Ra and I'm sure ZOS is having a hard time developing content that they can't be abused in. SO was a great attempt but the truth is SO is only so difficult to do it because the bosses have AoEs that can't be negated and the bosses hit so hard you can't bring their damage down to nothing.

A lot of players forget that the Ultimate was supposed to be some epic ability that was used ONLY when there was no choice, when it was "die or have a chance" moments and the gain of that was supposed to be dependent on the Finesse system... which got scrapped.

Without the Finesse system they had no other method of giving us to gain Ultimate so it because a "crit on a heal or an attack and you get x amount of points" and some other elements like blocking special attacks... This made it HORRIBLE for tanks to generate Ultimate. By far an unfair system.

To that note, to all of those saying people complained about Ultimates in PvP because they have no skill I've always wondered... Do the people who are accusing those of having no skill so they wanted Ultimates to go away have no skill to go in and PvP without them? I don't get it? Usually when someone is accusing another of something that isn't actually taking place means that the accuser is generally the guilty party. It all comes down to skilled players won't care. Unskilled players who NEED the Ultimates are, of course, going to care. Now I'm not saying that everyone who cares is unskilled, but I will venture the guess that the ones that do care that it's happening aren't so concerned that they won't go out there and whoop some butt regardless! And to them, I tip my hat and note your concern.

The way I really feel about this has been said before: Shame on ZOS for letting Ultimates be used in such a way for so long when it was stated before the game even launched that the Ultimates were going to be used sparingly and for "OH CRAP! WE MIGHT NOT WIN THIS FIGHT" situations. (I'm looking forward to seeing that happen now)

Joejudas · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

Layenem wrote: »

I know a lot of people think this was some hatred mechanic by ZOS, and I'm sure there will be people who believe it to be so and will undoubtedly argue to no end about it. I just don't see it. It's been used to completely undermine mechanics in AA and Hel Ra and I'm sure ZOS is having a hard time developing content that they can't be abused in. SO was a great attempt but the truth is SO is only so difficult to do it because the bosses have AoEs that can't be negated and the bosses hit so hard you can't bring their damage down to nothing.

A lot of players forget that the Ultimate was supposed to be some epic ability that was used ONLY when there was no choice, when it was "die or have a chance" moments and the gain of that was supposed to be dependent on the Finesse system... which got scrapped.

Without the Finesse system they had no other method of giving us to gain Ultimate so it because a "crit on a heal or an attack and you get x amount of points" and some other elements like blocking special attacks... This made it HORRIBLE for tanks to generate Ultimate. By far an unfair system.

To that note, to all of those saying people complained about Ultimates in PvP because they have no skill I've always wondered... Do the people who are accusing those of having no skill so they wanted Ultimates to go away have no skill to go in and PvP without them? I don't get it? Usually when someone is accusing another of something that isn't actually taking place means that the accuser is generally the guilty party. It all comes down to skilled players won't care. Unskilled players who NEED the Ultimates are, of course, going to care. Now I'm not saying that everyone who cares is unskilled, but I will venture the guess that the ones that do care that it's happening aren't so concerned that they won't go out there and whoop some butt regardless! And to them, I tip my hat and note your concern.

The way I really feel about this has been said before: Shame on ZOS for letting Ultimates be used in such a way for so long when it was stated before the game even launched that the Ultimates were going to be used sparingly and for "OH CRAP! WE MIGHT NOT WIN THIS FIGHT" situations. (I'm looking forward to seeing that happen now)

Your opinions are always well thought out....although we don't always agree

Joejudas · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

So far the results of this poll are surprising to me. Hmmmmmmm

Sasky · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

The current system makes builds to dependent on crits and exacerbated numerous other balance issues. Heck, at least half of the major PvP exploits can be tied to ultimates firing too quickly: Vampires having multiple bat swarms up simultaneously, DKs dropping multiple standards (which had several nerfs), sorc streak allowing a half-dozen concurrent negates from a single players for a few. In PvE, it's easy to notice a huge difference between playing as a healer to playing as a tank.

Is this an improvement? Definitely.
Will some builds lose out and make those people upset? Yes.
Is it the best solution? Possibly not, but trying to balance blocking vs healing vs DoT-based DPS vs slower DPS in PvP, PvE, multi-target and single-target is difficult. There is something to be said for "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

Cody · January 2015

i support the changes as a PvP player

I like it simply because it will force people to put down their blocks for at least one second.

and it will be nice to see less batswarming I suppose

LtCrunch · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

I support the changes as both a PVE player and a PVP,player. I think it's a much needed change for PVP though. The ultimate spam in Cyrodiil is real atm.

GreyBrow · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

Forums are full of casuals and pugs... usually the bottom 25% of PvErs.

Because of this, your results will always be skewed. there are easily 1000 people playing end game content who are considering quitting the game because zenimax has decided to #*$@ the good players over by trying to make them the same as n@@bs

LtCrunch · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

GreyBrow wrote: »

Forums are full of casuals and pugs... usually the bottom 25% of PvErs.

Because of this, your results will always be skewed. there are easily 1000 people playing end game content who are considering quitting the game because zenimax has decided to #*$@ the good players over by trying to make them the same as n@@bs

Stacking crit and healing outside of combat makes you a good player? Good to know.

Bloodfang · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

GreyBrow wrote: »

Forums are full of casuals and pugs... usually the bottom 25% of PvErs.

Because of this, your results will always be skewed. there are easily 1000 people playing end game content who are considering quitting the game because zenimax has decided to #*$@ the good players over by trying to make them the same as n@@bs

Actually forums are mostly of elitists/min maxers. Casuals don't even bother to read patch notes, why would they read forums? The results might be skewed, but only to a point where the disagrees % are too high, if casuals voted you'd see "I don't care" for the majority of the votes.

Othervise I fully support this change as a PvE player.

Joejudas · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?

Rev Rielle · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

It's all about bringing back; a) the balance in the system, and b) making ultimates more inline with what they were originally intended to be. So yes, I agree with the changes.

Sure, on a personal level I mightn't be able to use my character's ultimate skills as much, but I can see beyond that to the bigger picture of what development is trying to do and why, and there's clearly a need for change. I'm amazed many players are unwilling to do so.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · January 2015

The poll really needs an 'other' option. I do both PvE and PvP. I fully support the changes that the game is making to the ultimate. I only use mine in boss situations in PvE and on the battlefield when it is needed, but I don't spam it (not that I could as the Templar ultimate take time to rebuild). The way that I see it is that if you are relying solely on your ultimate, then you don't know how to play the game. There is a lot more than pushing a button to the game. The changes will make those players learn to play or they will leave the game. It's a win-win.

ItsMeToo · January 2015

im not sure..until i test it on release.

GreyBrow wrote: »

Forums are full of casuals and pugs... usually the bottom 25% of PvErs.

Because of this, your results will always be skewed. there are easily 1000 people playing end game content who are considering quitting the game because zenimax has decided to #*$@ the good players over by trying to make them the same as n@@bs

Show me the official data or it's not true.

Lied · January 2015

i support the changes as a PvP player

It's kind of like when a class or ability is OP in any MMO, and people come to the forums to whine about it. Then, mixed in with the trolling, there are responses along the lines of "if you think it's so powerful, why don't you use it".

Some people can't understand/believe that there are other people who know how to maximize a system and simply don't because it seems stupid, imba, and in need of fixing.

AshySamurai · January 2015

I supported this idea since ZOS released it. And I still think it's more fair (if I don't crit every sec doesn't mean I'm a bad player) and IMO ultimate skills will become truly ultimate.

Romo · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

Joejudas wrote: »

im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?

Look closely at the ones who post about being in favor of the PVE change to Ultimates. About half of those I read are really saying it is best for PVP. So a lot of PVPers seem to be skewing the PVE result.

Tavore1138 · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

I also don't support them as a PvP player either - FWIW.

First - I get why they are changing it. Spamming out of combat healing should not generate ultimates. Ultimate generation favours some types of play that are not helpful. Ultimates should not be always on even if you are a great player.

But the big fail from what I understand of the new system is they are forcing a mechanic on everyone who wants to generate ultimate - we shouldn't be forced to use a light hit every x seconds. It's just a lazy mechanic - it feels like a Friday afternoon decision... by all means revisit how it generates but FFS come up with something a little more creative than 'Do a light hit wait 8 secs, do another...'.

And I like the way skill lines have specific active or passive ways to generate ultimate currently - it forces you to think about whether an otherwise sub-par skill might be worth slotting because of the pay-off in getting a faster ultimate ready. Some skills become much less worth having IF they remove that aspect (which is not yet clear). Again if particular ones are too powerful then ammend them but don't just throw them away.

The third problem is going to be balance of content - you only need to play in a PvE or PvP group to see how often tactics are heavily supported by ultimates. Negates on flags, Veils/Novas in trials and so on - for better or worse this will change the game and possibly require some serious content rebalancing.

On the plus side it will be soooo nice to not constantly be dodging out of a standard or a batswarm!

Overall I find this another example of what sometimes looks like unwillingness to fix systems from ZOS - rather than seek the specific problems and correct them they just toss out whole systems and introduce new ones, often with little consideration of the consequences of the new systems on existing player base & no doubt several months spent rebalancing the results of these changes.

While I am looking forward to seeing the new 1.6 content I also hope they will give it a good few weeks to bed in on PTS and actually be willing to hold it off for longer if some of the problems players are concerned about are proven to be accurate.

eliisra · January 2015

im not sure..until i test it on release.

Bloodfang wrote: »

Actually forums are mostly of elitists/min maxers. Casuals don't even bother to read patch notes, why would they read forums? The results might be skewed, but only to a point where the disagrees % are too high, if casuals voted you'd see "I don't care" for the majority of the votes.

You cant compare anything in-game to online forums. One is filled with actual players, the other is populated by people that enjoys typing and arguing (some not even playing the game). Usually unhealthy mix of haters, trolls, fanbois and forum addicts

That's also why a forum poll gets skew results. To many votes are based on standpoint or category above, not based on understanding or caring about the issue in-game.

Fanbois will always vote trying to score points with forum mods and pleasing gaming developers. Haters will vote no and rage on pretty much everything. Trolls and instigators will vote wherever there's the most drama to be created. Forum addicts made the stupid poll.

Dreyloch · January 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

It's coming either way....I just figured some feedback might be nice. Do you support the changes to ult gain that make ult a flat gain rate. I'll keep my opinion out if it.

ZoS please shut this thread down, it's useless, pointless and there's 3289`893589`432589 other posts about it. This OP needs to L2SearchThread.

Fi'yra · January 2015

im not sure..until i test it on release.

Personally, I'm just going to decide when they're actually released.
Although I'm already making my update 6 set now!

Wraithen · January 2015

Can't support or cry about anything that has not been released for me to test yet. This poll is premature

Naivefanboi · January 2015

im not sure..until i test it on release.

Layenem wrote: »

I know a lot of people think this was some hatred mechanic by ZOS, and I'm sure there will be people who believe it to be so and will undoubtedly argue to no end about it. I just don't see it. It's been used to completely undermine mechanics in AA and Hel Ra and I'm sure ZOS is having a hard time developing content that they can't be abused in. SO was a great attempt but the truth is SO is only so difficult to do it because the bosses have AoEs that can't be negated and the bosses hit so hard you can't bring their damage down to nothing.

A lot of players forget that the Ultimate was supposed to be some epic ability that was used ONLY when there was no choice, when it was "die or have a chance" moments and the gain of that was supposed to be dependent on the Finesse system... which got scrapped.

Without the Finesse system they had no other method of giving us to gain Ultimate so it because a "crit on a heal or an attack and you get x amount of points" and some other elements like blocking special attacks... This made it HORRIBLE for tanks to generate Ultimate. By far an unfair system.

To that note, to all of those saying people complained about Ultimates in PvP because they have no skill I've always wondered... Do the people who are accusing those of having no skill so they wanted Ultimates to go away have no skill to go in and PvP without them? I don't get it? Usually when someone is accusing another of something that isn't actually taking place means that the accuser is generally the guilty party. It all comes down to skilled players won't care. Unskilled players who NEED the Ultimates are, of course, going to care. Now I'm not saying that everyone who cares is unskilled, but I will venture the guess that the ones that do care that it's happening aren't so concerned that they won't go out there and whoop some butt regardless! And to them, I tip my hat and note your concern.

The way I really feel about this has been said before: Shame on ZOS for letting Ultimates be used in such a way for so long when it was stated before the game even launched that the Ultimates were going to be used sparingly and for "OH CRAP! WE MIGHT NOT WIN THIS FIGHT" situations. (I'm looking forward to seeing that happen now)

umm i dont remember anything about ultimates being used "sparingly"
nor did i hear anything about them being spammable.

i agreee some ultimate are generated too quickly. iam un informed on the trials exploits. however instead of reworking the whole system. couldnt they just change ultimate costs and slow down the ultimates that are being abused?

i love generating my ultimate and getting it ready in time.
as a templar relying on n ova in trials , 300 ultimate is a considerable amount to generate in short time, using dps/iff heals build ive currently been running.

also what will this do to small charge ultimates that were CLEARLY meant to be used more often? empowering sweep anyone?
was amazeing for soloing mobs in craglorn . which was done out of build testing.
anyways those are my points.

Wolfsspinne · January 2015

Where is the "I play both" option?

Ahdora · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

eliisra wrote: »

Bloodfang wrote: »

Actually forums are mostly of elitists/min maxers. Casuals don't even bother to read patch notes, why would they read forums? The results might be skewed, but only to a point where the disagrees % are too high, if casuals voted you'd see "I don't care" for the majority of the votes.

You cant compare anything in-game to online forums. One is filled with actual players, the other is populated by people that enjoys typing and arguing (some not even playing the game). Usually unhealthy mix of haters, trolls, fanbois and forum addicts

That's also why a forum poll gets skew results. To many votes are based on standpoint or category above, not based on understanding or caring about the issue in-game.

Fanbois will always vote trying to score points with forum mods and pleasing gaming developers. Haters will vote no and rage on pretty much everything. Trolls and instigators will vote wherever there's the most drama to be created. Forum addicts made the stupid poll.

You can't have a forum account without an active game sub. It sometimes takes them a while to disable the forum account of a person without a sub, but they do.

I just had to go through the process to activate my forum account again a few weeks ago, as my forum account was tied to the account I used in Psijic Order testing pre-launch. Once I actually started posting with it, it was deactivated quickly. Had to submit a ticket and prove I had an active sub.

That being said, of course polls aren't an accurate representation of how the whole gaming population feels. I don't think anyone takes them as such. It's just a general testing of the waters.

Joejudas · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

Dreyloch wrote: »

Joejudas wrote: »

It's coming either way....I just figured some feedback might be nice. Do you support the changes to ult gain that make ult a flat gain rate. I'll keep my opinion out if it.

ZoS please shut this thread down, it's useless, pointless and there's 3289`893589`432589 other posts about it. This OP needs to L2SearchThread.

Go take a nap.

Joejudas · January 2015

I dont support the changes as a PvE player.

I think feedback is good. I am surprised by the results and really enjoy some of the opinions people are giving. A couple of grumpy people will act grumpy....but overall I think this poll is fun. Yes I should have added a both option.

Lord_Kreegan · January 2015

dont care either way

Whatever happens, I'll adapt.

If the game had not originally been made the way it was, would any of us have noticed a change? No, we would have assumed that whatever it is we are about to get is what was supposed to be the way we play.

So, young Jedi, be paitent. Don't use the Force.

Layenem · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

I'm not going to lie, I thought there would be a lot more PvE and PvP against it. Again, for the second poll this week, I was wrong lol

BUT that's why we do these fun little polls, isn't it? To see how the community (as much as we can get involved in them) actually sits.

Layenem · January 2015

I support the changes as a PvE player

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

umm i dont remember anything about ultimates being used "sparingly"
nor did i hear anything about them being spammable.

That's fine, you can easily go back and review all of their prerelease footage. It's there, I promise.

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

i agreee some ultimate are generated too quickly. iam un informed on the trials exploits. however instead of reworking the whole system. couldnt they just change ultimate costs and slow down the ultimates that are being abused?

They could change the ultimate cost but what would be the difference here and how would that keep everyone (tanks included) and an even playing ground in the ultimate generation department? All you're saying here is to make it LOOK different than what they are doing (instead of slowing down the generation of Ultimate you just increase the cost)... That's the same thing they are doing now with a different skin on it.

The other issue here, going towards the part where you talk about increasing the ultimate costs, originally, with the Finesse system, the Ultimates were supposed to do ADDITIONAL damage based on how much over the cost of the ultimate you were.

Again, the video footage with developers talking about it (pretty sure it was Maria and that other dude sitting at a round table talking with IGN maybe... I don't remember who they talked to, I MIGHT care enough to go find it) clearly states that Finesse was going to determine your effectiveness in your role in combat and reward you by 1) determine your loot (better loot for better players; less loot for carried players); and 2) generates ultimate AS you perform your role (i.e., block, damage, heal, avoid AoEs, etc...)

I remember this because on the ESO FB page we had discussions for WEEKS about how this Finesse system would call players to be better than themselves. That raid leaders would be able to tell who isn't contributing because they aren't getting loot and they don't have ultimates when you need them in those tight spots... since, you know, they told us that we wouldn't be able to see anyone else's DPS numbers. Unless, of course, I made all this up in my head while waiting for ESO to come out. Pretty sure I didn't. I could have. Nah!

trimsic_ESO · January 2015

i support the changes as a PvP player

Joejudas wrote: »

im super surprised by the amount of pve players who like the change. The people i talk to in game agree with me...but the forums dont. i wonder where the disconnect is ?

The disconnect is quite easy to define: you are so confident in your reasoning that you don't hear the people who disagree with you, and when someone agrees with you, s/he reinforces your feeling that you are right with your reasoning.

The Elder Scrolls Online

Do you support the Ult gain changes ( sorted by PvE / PvP )

Do you support the Ult gain changes ( sorted by PvE / PvP ) 255 votes