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Feedback on 1.6: problem with new Ultimate generation (@ZOS)
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de_la_Dude✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »Flaw:
1. PvP: Sieging in PvP will no longer occur. Why? Because using Siege is not a light or heavy attack, and therefore will not generate any Ultimate.
2. PvE: Tanks or other agro-generating players can no longer effectively serve in their role if they have to weave in attacks that involve dropping Block.
Concern one is just plain silly. In case you didn't know, ultimates do not take down keep walls. There may be less ultimate generation in PvP but the idea that people will stop using siege is laughable.
Second concern is also unfounded because if you've been paying attention they have already explicitly stated that tanks will do better in the new system. I'll take their experience with play testing over your speculation any day. I would also argue a good tank is already weaving these attacks in as part of their role.
Sounds like you are really just concerned about slow ult generation, but have you considered that they are intentionally slowing down ult generation and standardizing it because they never intended us to be dropping them every 15-30 seconds?
Edited by de_la_Dude on January 15, 2015 4:41PM5 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »The OP clearly states why the design is bad. I can summarize again for you:
Okay, for starters, continually touting "look at the OP" doesn't tell me anything, as I have just as clearly disagreed w/ your assessment of the situation in the OP.
So let's break this down a bit (warning, this is prolly gonna be long):onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvP: It makes sieging (both offense and defense) an unliked job, because you aren't generating any ultimate, and encourages players to do stupid things like get off siege, run to the wall, light attack, then go back to their siege.
Players who are using siege weapons in PvP are generally doing it for reasons outside of Ultimate gain. Most of the time, the benefit of well-utilized siege equipment far outweighs the temporary loss of Ult gain.
Are there selfish players who would rather fight on foot than use siege? Of course, they already exist currently on live. On the flipside, there are also players currently on live (like me) who are fielding siege to help their faction in battle and will continue to do so.
Post Ult gain changes, both types of players will still continue to exist. This seems like a wash.
In any case, I imagine for most players, they'll just build siege equipment after they've already gained Ult and the problem you've described is now entirely circumvented.onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvE: There are times in an 8 second period where a tank has to keep block up or die. Even as long as 10-15 seconds straight. This means they are losing the Ultimate Buff for a bit just to do their job. The tank is the one player you WANT to be dropping ultimates. So, again, this just makes no sense and makes things arbitrarily harder.
Have you tanked in PvE often? What is your Ult gain currently like as a tank? Are you generating more or less than the proposed change on live?
I ask these questions because, in my limited experience, Ult gain is currently an abysmal affair and the 1.6 changes to the system sound absolutely awesome to me. I don't hold my block button constantly, I generally only try to block the things that are necessary, or dodge-roll out of heavy hits.
Post 1.6, even if I let the Ult gain buff drop off for 1-3 seconds (unlikely, but there are times that you need to block), I will STILL be receiving a great deal MORE Ult than I currently do on live in the same time period.
That's not even taking into account the fact that as you learn fights and mechanics, you will be able to time your cancelled light attacks to land when it's safer to do so, adding not only more Ult than I get on live currently, but also adding a much-needed skill component to generating Ult as a tank.
This seems like a win.onlinegamer1 wrote: »For either PvP or PvE: the intent of the change is to prevent Ultimate Gain spikes thru wierd combinations of abilities and gear, resulting in overuse of ultimates. The buff idea is that ultimate gain is normalized, not spikey. So long as the implementation achieves that goal, then ZoS has no reason to put forth a design which has flaws (light/heavy attacks only) vs one that does not have them (any damaging attack).
What you've described is only a single aspect of why this change is being implemented.
I touched on another aspect above, which is the fact that tanks generate Ult extremely slowly compared to the other roles, and as you have freely stated: "The tank is the one player you WANT to be dropping ultimates." The change benefits tanks FAR more than it hinders them.
Another aspect is simply to bring builds that don't rely quite so heavily on crit and AoE + heals + DoTs into increased viability by both curbing spike Ult gain (as you mentioned) and increasing Ult gain for builds that did not rely increasingly on the current Ult gain gimmicks.
Increased build variety is also a win, imo.
So, sorry for the novel, but I firmly disagree w/ the points you've put forward in your OP and your other posts in this thread (which mostly just said to re-read the OP that I already disagreed w/, lol), and you're really not bringing much else to the table than repeating the same misguided logic like a broken record.
If you've got more than what the OP says, I'd love to hear it, because so far it doesn't really seem like you've got anything more than a thinly veiled argument to keep block-casting just the way it is right now on live.
PvP: your points simply aren't valid, as they fall under the logical fallacy "Appeal to Tradition" (its always worked this way, so it must be good). I clearly indicated that its a better playing experience to just "PvP normally" and do whatever needs to be done or whatever you choose to do, and receive your ultimate points as a result of your actions, instead of inserting a completely arbitrary requirement to get the buff.
PvE: you must not really play a tank. I play a NB Tank (and have also tanked on a DK, but he is retired now). I generate ultimate so fast that I can drop a second Veil of Blades anywhere from 4-8 seconds after the previous one. I was able to drop two Banners at the same time on my DK.
Tanking (bosses mind you, not trash) involves two and only two things: taunting and surviving. Once you've taunted, you have 15 seconds before you have to do it again. If you just stand around blocking for those 15 seconds, you're doing it wrong. I am able to drop DoTs and instants on the boss during those 15 seconds to add to the DPS of the party. And then re-apply the taunt. Depending on the boss, you may require block for more than 8 straight seconds.
Anyone in the DPS role who are not having to block Boss attacks can risk a light/heavy attack. Tanks can't.
It also puts a higher skill requirement on content (you now have to be able to animation cancel a light attack) in order to play a tank role. Thats elitism. Elitism encouraged by game rules!
Once again, my proposal is CLEARLY superior to ZoS'. There are no downsides to it, in PvP or PvE.11 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvP: your points simply aren't valid, as they fall under the logical fallacy "Appeal to Tradition" (its always worked this way, so it must be good). I clearly indicated that its a better playing experience to just "PvP normally" and do whatever needs to be done or whatever you choose to do, and receive your ultimate points as a result of your actions, instead of inserting a completely arbitrary requirement to get the buff.
If anything, your argument of "just let all attacks give you the Ult buff" falls under your description of appeal to tradition.
What you clearly indicated was your speculation, an opinion which I disagree w/, because we are likely very different types of players. You may see using light attacks as a red herring, but I personally welcome them back into the flow of battle.onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvE: you must not really play a tank. I play a NB Tank (and have also tanked on a DK, but he is retired now). I generate ultimate so fast that I can drop a second Veil of Blades anywhere from 4-8 seconds after the previous one. I was able to drop two Banners at the same time on my DK.
And yet I do tank on several of my characters. And I'm fairly certain I never said anything about standing around blocking for 15 seconds, or anything about my playstyle in general.
What I did mention was that, compared to the other roles, tanks still do not generate Ult nearly as quickly. Your NB can drop 2 Veils on trash; any NB worth their salt can do that. Even against bosses, NBs enjoy an amalgamation of Ult generation mechanics that puts them above every other class.
DKs are, of course, a close 2nd. Interesting that you'd pick those 2 as your examples.
If you can't find time in your tanking to hit something w/ a light attack, I'm not even sure what to tell you. There's very, very few fights in this game where you can't use an attack when you aren't at immediate risk of dying.
As it stands, though, I think I'm done discussing this. We're just going in circles here, and you seem to have a nasty habit of simply falling back on "NO I'M RIGHT" when challenged to actually elaborate on any of your much-exaggerated claims.
/shrug6 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭this is just so much LoL! "Oh no I cant use light attack, I will die! Dont make me drop block please!!! "
" I am able to drop DoTs and instants on the boss during those 15 seconds to add to the DPS of the party. And then re-apply the taunt. Depending on the boss, you may require block for more than 8 straight seconds."
^ so you dont want to let go of block. Seems legit3 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »The OP clearly states why the design is bad. I can summarize again for you:
Okay, for starters, continually touting "look at the OP" doesn't tell me anything, as I have just as clearly disagreed w/ your assessment of the situation in the OP.
So let's break this down a bit (warning, this is prolly gonna be long):onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvP: It makes sieging (both offense and defense) an unliked job, because you aren't generating any ultimate, and encourages players to do stupid things like get off siege, run to the wall, light attack, then go back to their siege.
Players who are using siege weapons in PvP are generally doing it for reasons outside of Ultimate gain. Most of the time, the benefit of well-utilized siege equipment far outweighs the temporary loss of Ult gain.
Are there selfish players who would rather fight on foot than use siege? Of course, they already exist currently on live. On the flipside, there are also players currently on live (like me) who are fielding siege to help their faction in battle and will continue to do so.
Post Ult gain changes, both types of players will still continue to exist. This seems like a wash.
In any case, I imagine for most players, they'll just build siege equipment after they've already gained Ult and the problem you've described is now entirely circumvented.onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvE: There are times in an 8 second period where a tank has to keep block up or die. Even as long as 10-15 seconds straight. This means they are losing the Ultimate Buff for a bit just to do their job. The tank is the one player you WANT to be dropping ultimates. So, again, this just makes no sense and makes things arbitrarily harder.
Have you tanked in PvE often? What is your Ult gain currently like as a tank? Are you generating more or less than the proposed change on live?
I ask these questions because, in my limited experience, Ult gain is currently an abysmal affair and the 1.6 changes to the system sound absolutely awesome to me. I don't hold my block button constantly, I generally only try to block the things that are necessary, or dodge-roll out of heavy hits.
Post 1.6, even if I let the Ult gain buff drop off for 1-3 seconds (unlikely, but there are times that you need to block), I will STILL be receiving a great deal MORE Ult than I currently do on live in the same time period.
That's not even taking into account the fact that as you learn fights and mechanics, you will be able to time your cancelled light attacks to land when it's safer to do so, adding not only more Ult than I get on live currently, but also adding a much-needed skill component to generating Ult as a tank.
This seems like a win.onlinegamer1 wrote: »For either PvP or PvE: the intent of the change is to prevent Ultimate Gain spikes thru wierd combinations of abilities and gear, resulting in overuse of ultimates. The buff idea is that ultimate gain is normalized, not spikey. So long as the implementation achieves that goal, then ZoS has no reason to put forth a design which has flaws (light/heavy attacks only) vs one that does not have them (any damaging attack).
What you've described is only a single aspect of why this change is being implemented.
I touched on another aspect above, which is the fact that tanks generate Ult extremely slowly compared to the other roles, and as you have freely stated: "The tank is the one player you WANT to be dropping ultimates." The change benefits tanks FAR more than it hinders them.
Another aspect is simply to bring builds that don't rely quite so heavily on crit and AoE + heals + DoTs into increased viability by both curbing spike Ult gain (as you mentioned) and increasing Ult gain for builds that did not rely increasingly on the current Ult gain gimmicks.
Increased build variety is also a win, imo.
So, sorry for the novel, but I firmly disagree w/ the points you've put forward in your OP and your other posts in this thread (which mostly just said to re-read the OP that I already disagreed w/, lol), and you're really not bringing much else to the table than repeating the same misguided logic like a broken record.
If you've got more than what the OP says, I'd love to hear it, because so far it doesn't really seem like you've got anything more than a thinly veiled argument to keep block-casting just the way it is right now on live.
PvP: your points simply aren't valid, as they fall under the logical fallacy "Appeal to Tradition" (its always worked this way, so it must be good). I clearly indicated that its a better playing experience to just "PvP normally" and do whatever needs to be done or whatever you choose to do, and receive your ultimate points as a result of your actions, instead of inserting a completely arbitrary requirement to get the buff.
PvE: you must not really play a tank. I play a NB Tank (and have also tanked on a DK, but he is retired now). I generate ultimate so fast that I can drop a second Veil of Blades anywhere from 4-8 seconds after the previous one. I was able to drop two Banners at the same time on my DK.
Tanking (bosses mind you, not trash) involves two and only two things: taunting and surviving. Once you've taunted, you have 15 seconds before you have to do it again. If you just stand around blocking for those 15 seconds, you're doing it wrong. I am able to drop DoTs and instants on the boss during those 15 seconds to add to the DPS of the party. And then re-apply the taunt. Depending on the boss, you may require block for more than 8 straight seconds.
Anyone in the DPS role who are not having to block Boss attacks can risk a light/heavy attack. Tanks can't.
It also puts a higher skill requirement on content (you now have to be able to animation cancel a light attack) in order to play a tank role. Thats elitism. Elitism encouraged by game rules!
Once again, my proposal is CLEARLY superior to ZoS'. There are no downsides to it, in PvP or PvE.
Just wanted to chime in on this since its kind of amusing and not something I would expect to see on the fourms.
1.) For pvp, and i'm not sure about most people. But when i'm on siege its to siege. I don't jump onto a fire ballista and set a group of enemies on fire, my intent is to damage them and force them to move, not to charge my ultimate so I can jump off siege, run over and hit them with my ultimate.
When i'm attacking a keep, yes a lot of people stand around looking for a fight, but there will always be people on siege since that is what needs to happen, and those who use siege now won't stop just because they won't charge their ults off of it.
2.) They have said they are balancing the ultimate generation buff to be equal to, this being what I remember reading last, equal to someone using one attack and skill a second with a 50% crit rate. Most tanks, who are blocking, won't generate that amount of ultimate over time, and even if they can only get a attack off every 10+ seconds will still be better off in the new system. And if in all of that skill casting that you do to apply your dots and damage you can't work in a single attack, then perhaps their intent is you shouldn't be block casting 24/7.5 -
Gorthax✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »onlinegamer1 wrote: »The OP clearly states why the design is bad. I can summarize again for you:
Okay, for starters, continually touting "look at the OP" doesn't tell me anything, as I have just as clearly disagreed w/ your assessment of the situation in the OP.
So let's break this down a bit (warning, this is prolly gonna be long):onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvP: It makes sieging (both offense and defense) an unliked job, because you aren't generating any ultimate, and encourages players to do stupid things like get off siege, run to the wall, light attack, then go back to their siege.
Players who are using siege weapons in PvP are generally doing it for reasons outside of Ultimate gain. Most of the time, the benefit of well-utilized siege equipment far outweighs the temporary loss of Ult gain.
Are there selfish players who would rather fight on foot than use siege? Of course, they already exist currently on live. On the flipside, there are also players currently on live (like me) who are fielding siege to help their faction in battle and will continue to do so.
Post Ult gain changes, both types of players will still continue to exist. This seems like a wash.
In any case, I imagine for most players, they'll just build siege equipment after they've already gained Ult and the problem you've described is now entirely circumvented.onlinegamer1 wrote: »PvE: There are times in an 8 second period where a tank has to keep block up or die. Even as long as 10-15 seconds straight. This means they are losing the Ultimate Buff for a bit just to do their job. The tank is the one player you WANT to be dropping ultimates. So, again, this just makes no sense and makes things arbitrarily harder.
Have you tanked in PvE often? What is your Ult gain currently like as a tank? Are you generating more or less than the proposed change on live?
I ask these questions because, in my limited experience, Ult gain is currently an abysmal affair and the 1.6 changes to the system sound absolutely awesome to me. I don't hold my block button constantly, I generally only try to block the things that are necessary, or dodge-roll out of heavy hits.
Post 1.6, even if I let the Ult gain buff drop off for 1-3 seconds (unlikely, but there are times that you need to block), I will STILL be receiving a great deal MORE Ult than I currently do on live in the same time period.
That's not even taking into account the fact that as you learn fights and mechanics, you will be able to time your cancelled light attacks to land when it's safer to do so, adding not only more Ult than I get on live currently, but also adding a much-needed skill component to generating Ult as a tank.
This seems like a win.onlinegamer1 wrote: »For either PvP or PvE: the intent of the change is to prevent Ultimate Gain spikes thru wierd combinations of abilities and gear, resulting in overuse of ultimates. The buff idea is that ultimate gain is normalized, not spikey. So long as the implementation achieves that goal, then ZoS has no reason to put forth a design which has flaws (light/heavy attacks only) vs one that does not have them (any damaging attack).
What you've described is only a single aspect of why this change is being implemented.
I touched on another aspect above, which is the fact that tanks generate Ult extremely slowly compared to the other roles, and as you have freely stated: "The tank is the one player you WANT to be dropping ultimates." The change benefits tanks FAR more than it hinders them.
Another aspect is simply to bring builds that don't rely quite so heavily on crit and AoE + heals + DoTs into increased viability by both curbing spike Ult gain (as you mentioned) and increasing Ult gain for builds that did not rely increasingly on the current Ult gain gimmicks.
Increased build variety is also a win, imo.
So, sorry for the novel, but I firmly disagree w/ the points you've put forward in your OP and your other posts in this thread (which mostly just said to re-read the OP that I already disagreed w/, lol), and you're really not bringing much else to the table than repeating the same misguided logic like a broken record.
If you've got more than what the OP says, I'd love to hear it, because so far it doesn't really seem like you've got anything more than a thinly veiled argument to keep block-casting just the way it is right now on live.
PvP: your points simply aren't valid, as they fall under the logical fallacy "Appeal to Tradition" (its always worked this way, so it must be good). I clearly indicated that its a better playing experience to just "PvP normally" and do whatever needs to be done or whatever you choose to do, and receive your ultimate points as a result of your actions, instead of inserting a completely arbitrary requirement to get the buff.
PvE: you must not really play a tank. I play a NB Tank (and have also tanked on a DK, but he is retired now). I generate ultimate so fast that I can drop a second Veil of Blades anywhere from 4-8 seconds after the previous one. I was able to drop two Banners at the same time on my DK.
Tanking (bosses mind you, not trash) involves two and only two things: taunting and surviving. Once you've taunted, you have 15 seconds before you have to do it again. If you just stand around blocking for those 15 seconds, you're doing it wrong. I am able to drop DoTs and instants on the boss during those 15 seconds to add to the DPS of the party. And then re-apply the taunt. Depending on the boss, you may require block for more than 8 straight seconds.
Anyone in the DPS role who are not having to block Boss attacks can risk a light/heavy attack. Tanks can't.
It also puts a higher skill requirement on content (you now have to be able to animation cancel a light attack) in order to play a tank role. Thats elitism. Elitism encouraged by game rules!
Once again, my proposal is CLEARLY superior to ZoS'. There are no downsides to it, in PvP or PvE.
Just wanted to chime in on this since its kind of amusing and not something I would expect to see on the fourms.
1.) For pvp, and i'm not sure about most people. But when i'm on siege its to siege. I don't jump onto a fire ballista and set a group of enemies on fire, my intent is to damage them and force them to move, not to charge my ultimate so I can jump off siege, run over and hit them with my ultimate.
When i'm attacking a keep, yes a lot of people stand around looking for a fight, but there will always be people on siege since that is what needs to happen, and those who use siege now won't stop just because they won't charge their ults off of it.
2.) They have said they are balancing the ultimate generation buff to be equal to, this being what I remember reading last, equal to someone using one attack and skill a second with a 50% crit rate. Most tanks, who are blocking, won't generate that amount of ultimate over time, and even if they can only get a attack off every 10+ seconds will still be better off in the new system. And if in all of that skill casting that you do to apply your dots and damage you can't work in a single attack, then perhaps their intent is you shouldn't be block casting 24/7.
this guy clearly gets it. ZoS has already stated that PERMABLOCKCASTING IS A PROBLEM so clearly they intend to do way with it. Your best bet is to learn to NOT use it. Then when it is finally done away with you will be better off. There is ZERO skill in block casting and, currently, those who do it think it is skill. LOL! it is not.7 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thanks for bumping the thread, guys, even if you aren't addressing the suggestion in the OP.8 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »Players will "let the other guys siege, I will stand near the wall and fire off light/heavy attacks to build Ultimate
Hmm, you think light and heavy attacks will generate Ultimate when you're firing at/hitting nothing? I agree, that would be a problem. I actually assumed that they'd only generate ult if you land a hit on a target.
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!0 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »
I personally got ZoS to change the 30 CP reward to 70 CPs with another thread of mine. I intend to influence them again with this one.
Wait...what? Did he just..? Nah...couldn't have.onlinegamer1 wrote: »
PvE: you must not really play a tank. I play a NB Tank (and have also tanked on a DK, but he is retired now). I generate ultimate so fast that I can drop a second Veil of Blades anywhere from 4-8 seconds after the previous one. I was able to drop two Banners at the same time on my DK.
Tanking (bosses mind you, not trash) involves two and only two things: taunting and surviving. Once you've taunted, you have 15 seconds before you have to do it again. If you just stand around blocking for those 15 seconds, you're doing it wrong. I am able to drop DoTs and instants on the boss during those 15 seconds to add to the DPS of the party. And then re-apply the taunt. Depending on the boss, you may require block for more than 8 straight seconds.
Anyone in the DPS role who are not having to block Boss attacks can risk a light/heavy attack. Tanks can't.
It also puts a higher skill requirement on content (you now have to be able to animation cancel a light attack) in order to play a tank role. Thats elitism. Elitism encouraged by game rules!
Once again, my proposal is CLEARLY superior to ZoS'. There are no downsides to it, in PvP or PvE.
Yep, it's confirmed you're suffering from an over inflated sense of self importance.
Also, I'm going to call BS on dropping Veil 8 seconds after one dissipates as a tank. I gain Ulti faster on my NB tank than I do my Temp tank, not quite as fast as my DK tank, but currently Ulti gain as a Tank no matter the class is absolutely horrid.
Here I wanted to agree with you, I even did on page one. Your responses to legitimate debates shows the idea has flaws that don't stand up to being questioned.V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"8 -
BBSooner✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »1 if im using a siege engine, generating ultimate is the last of my worries
2 no good tank holds block down constantly
3 its an mmo, always evolving, lets see how it works before complaining, if it doesn't work, by all means, ill bring the cheese
I personally got ZoS to change the 30 CP reward to 70 CPs with another thread of mine. I intend to influence them again with this one.
I'm sure both of those 2 page threads really had ZOS thinking "you know what, this guys got a point".
3 -
kieso✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »1 if im using a siege engine, generating ultimate is the last of my worries
2 no good tank holds block down constantly
3 its an mmo, always evolving, lets see how it works before complaining, if it doesn't work, by all means, ill bring the cheese
I personally got ZoS to change the 30 CP reward to 70 CPs with another thread of mine. I intend to influence them again with this one.
I'm sure both of those 2 page threads really had ZOS thinking "you know what, this guys got a point".
I heard it was Al Gore...1 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Again, even though you lack the ability to discuss the issue, I do appreciate the thread bumps!
You guys rock!
3 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »even though you lack the ability to discuss the issue
Irony gold right here, folks.5 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »nerevarine1138 wrote: »Maybe at least wait until the PTS goes live to find flaws?
Some of us are smart enough to find flaws earlier.
what an arrogant statement.
Tell me oh wise one, how can you judge something without seeing it firsthand?3 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭*Light attack, lean back in chair, yawn, look around - Earn same ultimate as someone in the thick of a fight......
This is the kind of logic that makes people run into bat swarms and complain about it on forums and get a perfectly good system changed for a worse one.
How does any of that make people want to run into batswarms.....
0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭As a tank since early access I can tell you the whole having to drop block every 8 seconds is not an issue at all. If you're holding block indefinitely as a tank you're doing something very wrong.
Agreed. From one tank to another. Tanking isn't about hiding behind a shield. "A shield is meant for holding not hiding" and this is coming from a 2H tank.3 -
Ommamar✭✭✭✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »1 if im using a siege engine, generating ultimate is the last of my worries
2 no good tank holds block down constantly
3 its an mmo, always evolving, lets see how it works before complaining, if it doesn't work, by all means, ill bring the cheese
As I said earlier, some of us are super smart and experienced in software design, and we don't have to "Wait" to know this is a bad design.
I personally got ZoS to change the 30 CP reward to 70 CPs with another thread of mine. I intend to influence them again with this one.
Wow! Really just you?! No one else had any bearing on ZOS decision to change how the initial award of the CP was going to occur?! You are not only so obviously smarter then everyone you are also clairvoyant as you can see and judge a system the has been briefly explained!
You had an interesting idea with the any attack thing producing ultimate but your delivery killed it. Here is also something to consider there will still be morphs of skills that generate ultimate on use so if any attack will produce ultimate it degrades the usefulness of that morph.
Oh and just out of curiosity what software are you/ have you designed and developed?1 -
Evandus✭✭✭✭Strange...
My main is a tank and I've found 100% block uptime to be a lazy way to perform the role. I guess what I'm saying is that when I'm working the mobs, I'm casting, attacking, blocking (on cues), bashing, etc. While also repositioning dangerous mobs to the party.
It's a lot more active for me as a player than simply holding the right mouse button down and occasionally throwing taunts...Edited by Evandus on January 16, 2015 7:27AM5 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭I just want to reiterate my appreciation for the thread bumps you guys are posting.4 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »I just want to reiterate my appreciation for the thread bumps you guys are posting.
It's cool, ZOS will just see pages of this thread and only 1 person (you) having this opinion, while everybody else disagrees. : P2 -
onlinegamer1✭✭✭✭✭
✭onlinegamer1 wrote: »I just want to reiterate my appreciation for the thread bumps you guys are posting.
It's cool, ZOS will just see pages of this thread and only 1 person (you) having this opinion, while everybody else disagrees. : P
Actually no one has disagreed so far. I got many agreements and some nonsense (personal attacks, non-sequitors, etc.) But not one disagreement.5 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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Not that I want to bump your trivial thread but this is patently wrong. ANY Tank that just stands there and holds block 24/7 has no business being a Tank in ESO. If you seriously think dropping Block for <0.5 seconds will somehow cause your group to wipe then YOU shouldn't be Tanking. This change will allow Tanks to generate Ultimate faster on ST fights than we can currently at a cost of generating Ultimate slower in AOE fights than we can currently. This isn't even on PTS yet, literally NOBODY has any idea (but ZoS) of how exactly the system will impact players, other than it's fairly obvious we won't see 3x SoM simultaneously or VoB/Devouring Swarm overlapped anymore.onlinegamer1 wrote: »2. PvE: Tanks or other agro-generating players can no longer effectively serve in their role if they have to weave in attacks that involve dropping Block. It will lead to more wipes and high-end content becoming harder for all but the really elite players to complete.3 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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Just wanted to chime in on this since its kind of amusing and not something I would expect to see on the fourms.
1.) For pvp, and i'm not sure about most people. But when i'm on siege its to siege. I don't jump onto a fire ballista and set a group of enemies on fire, my intent is to damage them and force them to move, not to charge my ultimate so I can jump off siege, run over and hit them with my ultimate.
When i'm attacking a keep, yes a lot of people stand around looking for a fight, but there will always be people on siege since that is what needs to happen, and those who use siege now won't stop just because they won't charge their ults off of it.
2.) They have said they are balancing the ultimate generation buff to be equal to, this being what I remember reading last, equal to someone using one attack and skill a second with a 50% crit rate. Most tanks, who are blocking, won't generate that amount of ultimate over time, and even if they can only get a attack off every 10+ seconds will still be better off in the new system. And if in all of that skill casting that you do to apply your dots and damage you can't work in a single attack, then perhaps their intent is you shouldn't be block casting 24/7.
Since we are chiming here:
Your first assumption is incorrect. I use siege now and I will stop because I am not charging my ultimate while doing so. Go ahead and call me selfish, exploitative, gamey, etc., I don't care.
ZoS did say they were making ultimate generation equal to that, but this only shows ZoS is unaware of how their game works. Most ultimate generation does not come from critical attacks, but from the actual damage you do against trash mobs and secondly from healing players. If their goal was to do as they say, that is for ultimate to be standardized to the rate of 50% crit and 1 skill per second, then I should be spamming even more standards since my crit is below 50% and the time in-between my attacks is typically greater than 1 second.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.4 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Did you read the part where he said he PERSONALLY got zos to change the 30CP points to 70CP points .... ha ha haYou earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points3 -
Naivefanboi✭✭✭✭yea just wait dudeS! GOSH! its not like we still have bugs that we reported from beta.....
combat leash glitch looking right you.
bad concept is a bad concept. If were wrong and none these are issues in pts. id be more then happy to eat my words and be wrong.0 -
Kypho✭✭✭✭Complain from ppl, who only can fight with ultimate.... if you need ultimate to win, its your bad. I dont need OP ultimates. Bad players always complain.4 -
Spangla✭✭✭✭Complain from ppl, who only can fight with ultimate.... if you need ultimate to win, its your bad. I dont need OP ultimates.
Bad players always complain.
Yes and unfortunately they are listened to which is why they are implementing this gimpy child like system
Pathetic.
Light attack - *Check mail message friend gain more ultimate than someone firing a fire ballista at the breach as 20 people poor in.....
Cool.3