Where changes like the upcoming change to Ultimate will get ESO.
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Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?7 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!4
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Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Well if your being civil....and your conversation is silly and is furthering an idea that will hurt alot of people's enjoyment of a game because you think a mechanic is " cheesy and boring " and I come in and tell you your acting like an insane person......then I'm the bad guy right. Lol. It's ok I have tried to explain here why your praising the new system is petty, selfish, and stupid...but you can't get through to some peopleWell if you come on the forums talking about " enjoy your end game with less ults" people are going to call you out on your knowledge and skill in the game.
You're literally the only person "calling" him out on his "knowledge" and "skill," and I doubt anyone in this thread is persuaded by the illusory metric (if I may be so bold as to call it a metric) you've used to measure his "knowledge" and "skill."
Instead you've merely convinced everyone in this thread that you are incapable of engaging in a reasonable and civilized discussion. A discussion that was quite civil, before you arrived.
I hope, Joejudas, for your sake that you are every bit the exceptional ESO player you are claiming to be. Otherwise you have literally nothing to show for all your energy except for being bitter and angry on a quasi-anonymous internet gaming forum.
Page #1, one of my very first posts I say that I'm skeptical of this "solution."
But I also say that class imbalance with regard to ultimate generation has gone on long enough and needs to be fixed. You're burying your head in the sand if you don't think DKs and NBs are too far afield of Sorcs and Temps regarding ultimate generation.
Could they fix the other two classes? Sure! Do I trust them to do that? Hell no! Sorcerers had great ultimate generation when Streak hit unlimited targets. We know what happened to that. So no, I'd rather no wait around for the Developers to magically get their acts together regarding class balance. They don't seem to have what it takes, for whatever reason. If that means they need to normalize the classes so that 98% of the game population isn't either DK or NB, then so be.
I'd rather have no classes and/or a Development team with a demonstrated track record of balancing classes. Unfortunately neither of those are available to us right now it seems.
So you want the game to be further imbalanced? Because thats all thats going to come of them nerfing DKs and NBs rather then trying to find better ways of implementing Sorc and Temps.
Atleast with them trying to bring Sorc and Temps up to par with DKs and NBs theyd be using trial and error and at some point theyd find some success. It might take longer and more effort. But it wouldnt be causing a great amount of future balancing work on their part.
Settling for nerfing because you fear ZOS wont get buffing right will not help the game. Theyll be back with more buffs and nerfs a few Updates from now to fix the mess they created with this Update.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax2 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?
You literally don't have any evidence to backup your argument.So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!
It's not about enjoyment but game functionallity.
In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.
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trimsic_ESO✭✭✭✭✭That's not super complicated, right. So why should we complain? And at least we have something to do to deserve the right to use our ultimate skills.Edited by trimsic_ESO on January 16, 2015 11:15AM0 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Ok so find me one serious end game player who praises the change....cause I'm in those guild's.....and they all hate the change. Your worried about game functionality....really ?!?!? You have an entire server for PvP that runs at 10 fps on a good pc and you think ult spam inside a raid is bad functionality.3
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WolfingHour✭✭✭✭The burned of evidence is on you since you were the one initially saying "Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis". Prove me wrong or drop that argument. Prove the validity of your argument or drop it.Ok so find me one serious end game player who praises the change....cause I'm in those guild's.....and they all hate the change. Your worried about game functionality....really ?!?!? You have an entire server for PvP that runs at 10 fps on a good pc and you think ult spam inside a raid is bad functionality.
You're diverting the focus away from the discussion at hand. This is about ultimate gain, not PvP server performance.
Edit: Clarification.Edited by WolfingHour on January 16, 2015 11:29AM1 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just because you don't like how something is designed....doesn't mean it's broken. Maybe you should learn to embrace it and stop being bad players. Also using dots to build ults is too easy huh....then we should just nerf it to a system that's literally based on doing one attack every 8 secs. That's super complicated
A lot of players don't like to be forced to use AoE, DoT and high crit chance to get optimal ult gain. And the developers clearly don't like it either, so they're changing it.
Almost seems like builds aren't supposed to be centered around spamming ultimates.5 -
Ahdora✭✭✭✭✭Ok so find me one serious end game player who praises the change....cause I'm in those guild's.....and they all hate the change. Your worried about game functionality....really ?!?!? You have an entire server for PvP that runs at 10 fps on a good pc and you think ult spam inside a raid is bad functionality.
I know plenty of serious endgame players who either praise the change, or at the very least are fine with it. Rather than cry about it for hours/days at a time, they're already discussing strategies for the fights in which ultimate is generally overused.
You've done nothing in this thread but boast about your SO runs/endgame completion achievements and put down everyone else. People like you give endgame players a bad name. Newsflash: They do NOT all share your seeming requirement to make Trial content easier through ultimate spam. Some of them are actually quite happy to see some more thought given to zones that everyone has on farm status, like AA and HRC. You know, added challenge?
Sit down, kid. (Condescension isn't fun when aimed at you, is it?)Edited by Ahdora on January 16, 2015 11:39AMHeals With Stick, V11 Argonian Nightblade Healer, NA-EP6 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭In what guild ? Which players ? I would like to meet those people because they don't exist. Someone who wants to drop less ults in end game...lol . I'm done being trolled here have a good day casuals.7
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Ahdora✭✭✭✭✭In what guild ? Which players ? I would like to meet those people because they don't exist. Someone who wants to drop less ults in end game...lol . I'm done being trolled here have a good day casuals.
Oh, of course. Since they don't agree with you, they must not exist. People must just be talking to themselves across a dozen accounts. And changing their voices in TS.
I'm not dragging anyone's name in here to be talked down to by people like you. Go ask ingame. Actually talk to people and try, for once, to listen instead of immediately responding with condescension. If you're even capable of that.Edited by Ahdora on January 16, 2015 12:04PMHeals With Stick, V11 Argonian Nightblade Healer, NA-EP5 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!Ok so find me one serious end game player who praises the change....
Ah. So I get it now, you're another DK throwing a hissy fit left and right because Ohs nos your poor standard! You know what's being done by "serious end game players"? Adjusting and adapting. You think Ult gain is going to make a difference to what we get done? You rely way to heavily on ultimates then. Strats will change of course they have to, but many of us are working on that instead of whining and acting condescending and self aggrandized on the forums.
You think what? You're special and one of a kind? That your way is the only way? That all of us clearing end game content must of course agree with narrow minded and short sighted tantrums about the game changing?Sit down, kid.
Edited by Kraven on January 16, 2015 12:18PMV14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"5 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok so find me one serious end game player who praises the change....cause I'm in those guild's.....and they all hate the change. Your worried about game functionality....really ?!?!? You have an entire server for PvP that runs at 10 fps on a good pc and you think ult spam inside a raid is bad functionality.
And this is supposed to be surprising that players don't like a change that will have them using Ultimates less often after optimizing their builds to drop Ults far more often than intended?
And that's supposed to matter?
When I take a toy away from a child because he's not playing w/ it properly, am I supposed to care that he throws a hissy fit?
This isn't a change being made to make you happy, it's a change being made for balance's sake. Throw a hissy fit all you want, but you still aren't getting your toy back.Edited by Varicite on January 16, 2015 3:09PM3 -
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Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?
You literally don't have any evidence to backup your argument.So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!
It's not about enjoyment but game functionallity.
In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.
What about something like death stroke and radial sweep? They are ultimates, yet their cost is already low enough to be pretty spamable. Especially with PvP passives and such. And that is by design.Edited by Shunravi on January 16, 2015 3:42PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
Yes, and this is a great improvement to the combat system. Instead of blindly spam AOE spells, in a brainless way, we will now have to play our character in a smart way.ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.
Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".
But not everyone was relegated to doing this. It wasn't the ONLY way to gain ultimate. Not EVERYONE specs healing on one bar.
Now the ONLY way to gain ultimate is doing a light attack, or running a resto stick in one hand and throwing a healing spell every 8 seconds.
You will now only have 2 choices to gain ultimate, instead of many many many options.
How is doing a light attack every 8 seconds smarter?
The only thing they've changed is simplifying the way you gain ultimate. Which to me isn't playing smarter...because I don't see the extra thinking in clicking the left mouse button once every 8 seconds as opposed to having to think out a build.3 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭WolfingHour wrote: »
And the way it is going to be set up, you'll still be able to use it every big group of trash in the game.0 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭trimsic_ESO wrote: »
Using dots to build ultimates was not a good combat system. It does not require any particular effort.trimsic_ESO wrote: »
Yes, and this is a great improvement to the combat system. Instead of blindly spam AOE spells, in a brainless way, we will now have to play our character in a smart way.ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.
Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".
But not everyone was relegated to doing this. It wasn't the ONLY way to gain ultimate. Not EVERYONE specs healing on one bar.
Now the ONLY way to gain ultimate is doing a light attack, or running a resto stick in one hand and throwing a healing spell every 8 seconds.
You will now only have 2 choices to gain ultimate, instead of many many many options.
why dont you elaborate the smart way for the rest of us.....and dont say " do a light attack....then wait 8 secs....then do another light attack" like i think your about to tell me. Just for your info and everyone elses....i use the dots from combining Unstable flame, rending, fiery breath and flames of oblivion with rapid strikes to build my ult....not mindlessly spamming aoe. but i mean some people just dont get this i guess
And clicking your left mouse button once every 8 seconds does?2 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭In what guild ? Which players ? I would like to meet those people because they don't exist. Someone who wants to drop less ults in end game...lol . I'm done being trolled here have a good day casuals.
Oh, of course. Since they don't agree with you, they must not exist. People must just be talking to themselves across a dozen accounts. And changing their voices in TS.
I'm not dragging anyone's name in here to be talked down to by people like you. Go ask ingame. Actually talk to people and try, for once, to listen instead of immediately responding with condescension. If you're even capable of that.
No offense here. But who are you to speak for these 'people'? How is anyone here supposed to know that what you say is true?
Im not saying they need to come here and speak their minds. But geez. Dont pretend as if you have a right to speak for them because youve heard them say things that only you can verify.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax3 -
Bouvin✭✭✭✭✭
✭WolfingHour wrote: »Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?
You literally don't have any evidence to backup your argument.So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!
It's not about enjoyment but game functionallity.
In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.
What about something like death stroke and radial sweep? They are ultimates, yet their cost is already low enough to be pretty spamable. Especially with PvP passives and such. And that is by design.
Speaking of Death Stroke, I'm wondering if kills will still gain Ultimate. I don't think I've heard an official word on that.
If so, I'm curious what they are going to do about Soul Harvest.1 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?
You literally don't have any evidence to backup your argument.So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!
It's not about enjoyment but game functionallity.
In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.
What about something like death stroke and radial sweep? They are ultimates, yet their cost is already low enough to be pretty spamable. Especially with PvP passives and such. And that is by design.
We can't compare those two between themselves or with either VoB or SoM since they all work differently in both number of targets persistence in play and additional utility.
Is death stroke cheap when compared bwith veil? Yes but it also a lower amount of damage that hits instantaneously in one fell swoop.0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »
And the way it is going to be set up, you'll still be able to use it every big group of trash in the game.
Yes with passives, for instance, but not to the same extent since any and all crit tick won't count anymore.
Anyway, it's all by the bye. We haven't seen the full patch notes. Who knows exactly 100% what is going to be implemented and how.0 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?
You literally don't have any evidence to backup your argument.So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!
It's not about enjoyment but game functionallity.
In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.
What about something like death stroke and radial sweep? They are ultimates, yet their cost is already low enough to be pretty spamable. Especially with PvP passives and such. And that is by design.
We can't compare those two between themselves or with either VoB or SoM since they all work differently in both number of targets persistence in play and additional utility.
Is death stroke cheap when compared bwith veil? Yes but it also a lower amount of damage that hits instantaneously in one fell swoop.
But they are still ultimates, and your argument is that ultimates shouldent be spammed. That is what I'm spotlighting here, not whether they are aoe or not.
DS has a cost of 50, and a morph that makes it even more spammable. It's designed for quick kills, and the combat frenzy passive gives 50% of it back on PvP kill.Edited by Shunravi on January 16, 2015 5:12PMThis one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?
You literally don't have any evidence to backup your argument.So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!
It's not about enjoyment but game functionallity.
In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.
What about something like death stroke and radial sweep? They are ultimates, yet their cost is already low enough to be pretty spamable. Especially with PvP passives and such. And that is by design.
We can't compare those two between themselves or with either VoB or SoM since they all work differently in both number of targets persistence in play and additional utility.
Is death stroke cheap when compared bwith veil? Yes but it also a lower amount of damage that hits instantaneously in one fell swoop.
But they are still ultimates, and your argument is that ultimates shouldent be spammed. That is what I'm spotlighting here, not whether they are aoe or not.
DS has a cost of 50, and a morph that makes it even more spammable. It's designed for quick kills, and the combat frenzy passive gives 50% of it back on PvP kill.
There is no direct equivalence between say DS and VoB other than they are both ultimates. You're clinging on to terminology to sustain your argument that the ultimate system should stay has it is now.
50 will still be nothing compared to 200, in the current system or in whatever system is going to be implemented.0 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭I agree entirely that ultimate generation needed to be looked at in some way. There were situations that it could be spammed ridiculously and the way in which that was happening needed culling. Do I think the LA method with a global cooldown is the appropriate way of dealing with this problem? No, absolutely not. It's a cop out. It's overly simplistic and it penalises the players who are, quite simply, better than those that aren't able to generate ult at the same rate.
Gaining ultimate should be related to the impact you have on a fight, be that through damage or through healing. I agree you should not be able to generate ultimate out of combat. That is something that should most definitely be removed. But you should be rewarded for inflicting damage on other players.
A better solution would have been simply to reduce the ulti % gained per damage dished out. For instance you should only gain 1% of ulti for every 500 dmg (very cursory / random figures, just throwing out the basic idea here). This would mean that ulti generation would still be based on skill and ability.
It's a stupid change. Yes, I will adapt and I will probably carry on playing. But it really hasn't been thought about imo.Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena2 -
Shunravi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WolfingHour wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »WolfingHour wrote: »Literally no one who is complaining about ult gain does end game content on a regular basis....and you won't after they change it...So I'm having trouble understanding why it needs to be ruined for End game raiders ?
You literally don't have any evidence to backup your argument.So me spamming Standards inside AA is hurting other players enjoyment of the game how ? Can anyone answer that !!!!
It's not about enjoyment but game functionallity.
In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.
What about something like death stroke and radial sweep? They are ultimates, yet their cost is already low enough to be pretty spamable. Especially with PvP passives and such. And that is by design.
We can't compare those two between themselves or with either VoB or SoM since they all work differently in both number of targets persistence in play and additional utility.
Is death stroke cheap when compared bwith veil? Yes but it also a lower amount of damage that hits instantaneously in one fell swoop.
But they are still ultimates, and your argument is that ultimates shouldent be spammed. That is what I'm spotlighting here, not whether they are aoe or not.
DS has a cost of 50, and a morph that makes it even more spammable. It's designed for quick kills, and the combat frenzy passive gives 50% of it back on PvP kill.
There is no direct equivalence between say DS and VoB other than they are both ultimates. You're clinging on to terminology to sustain your argument that the ultimate system should stay has it is now.
50 will still be nothing compared to 200, in the current system or in whatever system is going to be implemented.
So does this not apply to all ultimates then;
Or just the ones you want?In any case, you think they were designed to be used almost as an active ability whereas I don't, so we'll agree to disagree.This one has an eloquent and well thought out response to tha... Ooh sweetroll!0 -
WolfingHour✭✭✭✭Of course it applies to all ultimates. The conversation is about ultimate gain as a whole regardless of your attempt at misdirection.0
