Ahdora wrote: »

Why are all of the arguments for balance focused on reducing mob XP rather than boosting quest XP *or* offering any other alternative to nerfing mob XP? I don't like to make assumptions, but when people can only offer one counterargument for multiple arguments it makes me wonder why they're really arguing.

There are plenty of reasons why it's a good idea to have comparable XP progression for questing, grinding, PvP, and running dungeons (to be clear, that's assuming comparable time is put in).

I do agree with you on the above point, though. If grinding is too attractive for gaining XP compared to the other main play styles, then the way to fix that isn't by reducing mob XP. You can better fix it through a combination of boosting XP gains from other activities (increasing quest reward XP, XP for killing world and dungeon bosses, XP for killing opposing players in PvP, etc), through reducing spawn rates/mob density in certain grind spots, and through increasing the difficulty of certain grind spots.

By combining methods like that, you don't have to make any individual changes too extreme - you can make each individual change relatively small so that it doesn't make much difference to an individual player, but as a whole it balances out the progression.

Again, though, as I said in a previous post you don't have to make the XP gain for grinding vs. questing identical - just comparable so that they're not too far out of alignment. What you don't want is a player to feel like he's being forced to do one form of content over another, because if he only does questing he's advancing at a much much slower pace than his friends who grind (or vice versa), even though they're both putting in the same amount of time actively playing to earn XP. You also want people to be able to alternate between the different methods of earning XP to keep from getting bored with the game - again without feeling like they're making a sacrifice to do that type of content. It's OK for the pace of one to be slower than the pace of the other, just not by too much.

In particular I feel like it's perfectly fine to be able to progress somewhat faster through grinding at a few specific grind spots (and I would actually prefer for those spots to be designed by ZOS specifically for the crowd that likes to grind rather than be spots intended for the questing or dungeon crowd - have instanced delves that are intended for the grind crowd, so they can play their way without interfering with those who are passing through trying to complete some content). It just shouldn't be a way to near-instantly progress to a level that will take forever to get to through questing/dungeons/PvP.

UrQuan wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Why are all of the arguments for balance focused on reducing mob XP rather than boosting quest XP *or* offering any other alternative to nerfing mob XP? I don't like to make assumptions, but when people can only offer one counterargument for multiple arguments it makes me wonder why they're really arguing.

There are plenty of reasons why it's a good idea to have comparable XP progression for questing, grinding, PvP, and running dungeons (to be clear, that's assuming comparable time is put in).

I do agree with you on the above point, though. If grinding is too attractive for gaining XP compared to the other main play styles, then the way to fix that isn't by reducing mob XP. You can better fix it through a combination of boosting XP gains from other activities (increasing quest reward XP, XP for killing world and dungeon bosses, XP for killing opposing players in PvP, etc), through reducing spawn rates/mob density in certain grind spots, and through increasing the difficulty of certain grind spots.

By combining methods like that, you don't have to make any individual changes too extreme - you can make each individual change relatively small so that it doesn't make much difference to an individual player, but as a whole it balances out the progression.

Again, though, as I said in a previous post you don't have to make the XP gain for grinding vs. questing identical - just comparable so that they're not too far out of alignment. What you don't want is a player to feel like he's being forced to do one form of content over another, because if he only does questing he's advancing at a much much slower pace than his friends who grind (or vice versa), even though they're both putting in the same amount of time actively playing to earn XP. You also want people to be able to alternate between the different methods of earning XP to keep from getting bored with the game - again without feeling like they're making a sacrifice to do that type of content. It's OK for the pace of one to be slower than the pace of the other, just not by too much.

In particular I feel like it's perfectly fine to be able to progress somewhat faster through grinding at a few specific grind spots (and I would actually prefer for those spots to be designed by ZOS specifically for the crowd that likes to grind rather than be spots intended for the questing or dungeon crowd - have instanced delves that are intended for the grind crowd, so they can play their way without interfering with those who are passing through trying to complete some content). It just shouldn't be a way to near-instantly progress to a level that will take forever to get to through questing/dungeons/PvP.

This is an excellent response and a perfectly reasonable solution to any perceived imbalances in the different leveling methods.

Humanistic wrote: »

The only reason that I can possibly understand for that is because you don't want players leveling so quickly, because if they do - then they are more likely to quit sooner than later. Which means less money.

You got the reason correct: they don't want players leveling too quickly. However you got the motive wrong. They have stated multiple times that they are trying to avoid big difference in player power while at the same time providing meaningful progression for all players.

xMovingTarget wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Ahdora wrote: »

Or just not nerf it in the first place?

I don't get what the purpose would be of taking one away only to create a new one.

Then again I also don't get the point of taking them away. It's silly. It's like they're saying "NO! Don't get XP that way, I want you to either get it THIS way or get it very slowly!"

Except your "very slowly" means "at the same speed as someone who's leveling through questing/any-other-means-besides-exploiting". They aren't nerfing anything. They're balancing the XP gain so that grinding isn't the most attractive option anymore. It's now even with everything else.

How dare you point out facts!?
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I love it how people are exploiting multiple higher-than-intended xp gain spots, then they get caught, then they cry about it and rage on the forums.

Why the f*** does it matter to you how fast I level? Since we will never compete anyway which is what I enjoy doing, how could it possibly matter to you?

The only reason is because you're one of those people running around reporting people for grinding. Is it because you can't stand that other people have another idea of fun than you? Is it because you secretly want to be competetive but for some reason can't? I just don't f***ing get it.

No one ever asked for them to do anything to screw the questing crowd, and here the questing crowd is making their usual appearance cheering on any changes that mess things up for the hardcore. Every damn time, it's like you people want F2P.

That's a nice amount of assumptions there. I actually haven't reported anyone except the botters that were everywhere early on or the kids who post typical racial/soci-politcal nonsense in zone chat.

And when did I ever say I want F2P? I'm done if this goes F2P....unless you mean, if you actually have to do content in this game, then you might leave and you assume you are important and actually matter and that somehow, with you leaving the game fails...? Is that it?

But thanks for the laughs, all the LOL tags shall be yours for the taking.

Hehe, just as predicted I did not get an answer to the question.

Yes, because I choose to do challenging content instead of murdering my brain by fetching flowers for NPCs I now "don't do content". What was that about assumptions?

Thanks by the way, I need the LOLs for my 5th star.

If you think an MMO can sustain itself by people doing solo questing, you're in for one hell of a surprise.

Grinding is not challenging. Please don't pretend it is in an effort to take a superior stance.

Questing isnt either

Agreed luckily I never said it was.