Where changes like the upcoming change to Ultimate will get ESO.

Bouvin · January 2015

http://www.ageofconan.com/playfree/

Age of Conan. Huge hype, huge number of players day one, empty guilds at 3-6 months.

Why? Bugs that should have been fixed before release. Band-aid fixes, and dumb decisions by the developers.

I'd rather NOT see ESO go that direction because it has a lot of potential.

Ahdora · January 2015

The Ultimate change is doing nothing but bringing Ultimate abilities back in line with what they were envisioned to be, rather than something that has become crazily spammed.

It's not even that big of a deal. People will adjust and stop relying on ults. I never relied on them anyway, so less of an adjustment for me, but others will adjust.

Nestor · January 2015

I hardly ever use Ultimates.

ben_ESO5 · January 2015

AoC is not even close to a fair comparison. I played AoC exclusively from beta till 8 months after release. AoC suffered because of huge problems, and a completely different experience from the opening Island to the rest of the game. ESO's first 8 months hasn't been perfect by any means, but you can't compare it to the train wreck that was the AoC rollout.

Rev Rielle · January 2015

When looked at objectively it's not a dumb decision, re the ultimate change.

Honestly, anyone that thinks there is nothing wrong on live with Ultimate generation/balance really hasn't been paying any attention at all.

The changes coming to ultimates, whilst not perfect (none ever are),are definitely overall a step in the right direction.

Wifeaggro13 · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

http://www.ageofconan.com/playfree/

Age of Conan. Huge hype, huge number of players day one, empty guilds at 3-6 months.

Why? Bugs that should have been fixed before release. Band-aid fixes, and dumb decisions by the developers.

I'd rather NOT see ESO go that direction because it has a lot of potential.

AOC Did have huge potential and was largely the fault of Gaute Goadger for trying to make itemization so completely unreadable. Releashing a clearly unfinished game. Some of the endgame instances were completely void of mobs literally empty zones. Though the game was not fixed for near a year and it took a complete firing of the men in charge , the game did rebound and actually pumped out a massive pay for expansion.

Eso has some of AOC's development team just so you know lol. But with that said the team was talented. just misdirected.

xMovingTarget · January 2015

Its too much of a communistic attempt in my opinion.

Btw, i played Age of Conan 4 years straight. It was a great game. After 1 year, most of the bugs were gone. It had great combat system(best of all in my opinion), great dungeons, epic raids and also alot of fun.

Bouvin · January 2015

ben_ESO5 wrote: »

AoC is not even close to a fair comparison. I played AoC exclusively from beta till 8 months after release. AoC suffered because of huge problems, and a completely different experience from the opening Island to the rest of the game. ESO's first 8 months hasn't been perfect by any means, but you can't compare it to the train wreck that was the AoC rollout.

Would WarHammer Online be a better comparison. Again, great game, many of the same ideas. While not exactly alike, AvA with Siege.

But they had major problems with class imbalance, and tried to fix them with poorly thought out band-aid solutions.

Where did that get them? http://www.warhammeronline.com/

You might think I'm hating on ESO. I'm not, I really like this game. Just like I liked AoC and Warhammer Online. I don't want to see it go to the wayside like they did because of poorly thought out changes. That's all.

Lord_Kreegan · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

http://www.ageofconan.com/playfree/
<SNIP>

ESO. Huge hype, huge number of players day one, empty guilds at 3-6 months.

Why? Bugs that should have been fixed before release. Band-aid fixes, and dumb decisions by the developers.

ESO DID go that direction...

Just changed your words a bit there.

Fair is fair... comparing ESO to AoC is inappropriate. ESO clearly wasn't ready for release. For instance, during the first open Beta, players were having huge problems with phasing and the devs came out and stated, "We know what the bug is; it'll be fixed before release."

It wasn't...

Class balance in ESO wasn't there, either, not by a long shot... it's still a work in progress.

But they've come a long, long way. So has AoC, although their population is too low to make the game viable for much longer.

AoC, in fairness, had one of the BEST starting areas and class-specific quest setups I've ever played. And they had some really unique classes... It was after leaving Tortage (the starting area) at around level 20 that things went to Hades in a handbasket. The rest of the game wasn't fleshed out at all.

I went back to it last year (as a subscriber; I don't do free-to-play) and played a character of every class. In general, I enjoyed myself; but a lot of their changes -- like ESO -- took away some of the heart of the game. I'd originally played a Bear Shaman when AoC first came out; my first new character when I went back was a Bear Shaman and it just wasn't the same; the skill combinations had been so neutered that it was reduced IMHO to a kiddie game. PvP servers were nothing more than a gank fest; you went to a level-appropriate zone and you found high levels guarding on-level players; when you started to kick the on-level player's butt, the high level player jumped in to rescue him. Really chicken-manure...

Admittedly, Bear Shaman were originally (still are) OP... but it's your own fault if you try to gank one.

Bouvin · January 2015

Another example that comes to mind is Star Wars Galaxies. It was a very good and thriving game.

Then they came out with the NGE combat update and things started to go south. They continued dumbing down the game making things more "simple" to appeal to new players while purging long-time loyal subscribers.

The thing they didn't bet on was that the new players wouldn't stick around that long. The game was so dumbed down that it quickly got boring. They essentially removed what was fun and unique about it. A lot of the long time players wanted to embrace the change..but they ended up leaving because it just wasn't fun anymore.

Queue in the ESO Ultimate change. This is essentially a dumbing down of what was a dynamic system to "You get 3 ultimate every 8 seconds as long as you do a light attack".

This is probably just the start. Expect other things to start getting dumbed down and replaced with more mindless grinding for passives.

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

BBSooner · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Bouvin · January 2015

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

But not everyone was relegated to doing this. It wasn't the ONLY way to gain ultimate. Not EVERYONE specs healing on one bar.

Now the ONLY way to gain ultimate is doing a light attack, or running a resto stick in one hand and throwing a healing spell every 8 seconds.

You will now only have 2 choices to gain ultimate, instead of many many many options.

BBSooner · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

But not everyone was relegated to doing this. It wasn't the ONLY way to gain ultimate. Not EVERYONE specs healing on one bar.

Now the ONLY way to gain ultimate is doing a light attack, or running a resto stick in one hand and throwing a healing spell every 8 seconds.

You will now only have 2 choices to gain ultimate, instead of many many many options.

But the argument is that the previous system was deeper/robust/whatever, but (imo) it wasn't. This simply applies a metric to the gain since ultimates were being generated too quickly than desired for encounters, and also restricts the gain to only in combat. If anything it adds to dungeon difficulty because powerful moves can no longer be farmed before a difficult fight and can no longer be generated incredibly quickly throughout the fight.

Kilandros · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Another example that comes to mind is Star Wars Galaxies. It was a very good and thriving game.

Then they came out with the NGE combat update and things started to go south. They continued dumbing down the game making things more "simple" to appeal to new players while purging long-time loyal subscribers.

The thing they didn't bet on was that the new players wouldn't stick around that long. The game was so dumbed down that it quickly got boring. They essentially removed what was fun and unique about it. A lot of the long time players wanted to embrace the change..but they ended up leaving because it just wasn't fun anymore.

Queue in the ESO Ultimate change. This is essentially a dumbing down of what was a dynamic system to "You get 3 ultimate every 8 seconds as long as you do a light attack".

This is probably just the start. Expect other things to start getting dumbed down and replaced with more mindless grinding for passives.

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

It's not dumbing it down for simplicity's sake--it's normalizing it across all classes. Now Dragonknights won't generate ultimate at several times the rate of other classes.

Normalizing across classes =/= "dumbing down"

Malthorne · January 2015

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

Bouvin · January 2015

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

If they wanted to stop out of combat generation, just make it so you can't gain ultimate unless your in combat.

If they are worried about Dragon Knights gaining too much, lower the Ultimate gain from their skills.

If they are non-class skills, then everyone has access to them so it is equal across the board.

If it's Batswarm and DK Banner that they feel are getting dropped too often, then just increase the Ultimate cost on them to something like Meteor.

The change is not needed as there are easier and better solutions. From what they said in ESO live, the reason they made the change was that the current system was too "complicated for the dev to work with" so they were simplifying it.

Honestly, the change has NOTHING to do with how fast classes are gaining Ultimate. It was an issue they were running into when trying to finish the CONSOLE game, and rather than do a proper fix, they just decided to make it based on light attacks.

Seriously, you can watch the ESO live episode at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74RNVpzXbA8 at 48:08 he flat out says "It's confusing for the designers".

He also says right after that, "Someone playing a tanky character is not gaining much Ultimate." I had to LOL at this because the big complaint is DKs, who generally play tank style in PvP are gaining TOO MUCH Ultimate.

Sallington · January 2015

People not spamming batswarm and negates every 10 seconds is totally going to cause ESO to go F2P.

I can't even anymore.

Varicite · January 2015

It's mostly not about simplifying Ult generation, imo.

It's more about curbing excessive Ult generation from some builds, and boosting unbearably low Ult generation rates for other builds that don't focus primarily on stacking DoTs, HoTs, AoEs, crits, Ult gen passives, and Ult gen abilities which has quickly taken over ESO's meta.

Things were out of whack, and they've been trying to fix it w/ baby steps since launch. As that has not really stopped the out-of-control Ult gain for certain builds, ZOS seems to have opted for an extensive overhaul of the system itself.

W/ a more normalized approach to Ultimates, they can then begin to balance encounter design around a more reasonable amount of Ultimates being dropped, instead of needing to tune all of the fights as though every player is dropping back-to-back Veils and Standards, which completely skews difficulty (and viability) for any players using builds that don't capitalize on stacking Ult generation mechanics.

Kilandros · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

If they wanted to stop out of combat generation, just make it so you can't gain ultimate unless your in combat.

If they are worried about Dragon Knights gaining too much, lower the Ultimate gain from their skills.

If they are non-class skills, then everyone has access to them so it is equal across the board.

If it's Batswarm and DK Banner that they feel are getting dropped too often, then just increase the Ultimate cost on them to something like Meteor.

The change is not needed as there are easier and better solutions. From what they said in ESO live, the reason they made the change was that the current system was too "complicated for the dev to work with" so they were simplifying it.

Honestly, the change has NOTHING to do with how fast classes are gaining Ultimate. It was an issue they were running into when trying to finish the CONSOLE game, and rather than do a proper fix, they just decided to make it based on light attacks.

Seriously, you can watch the ESO live episode at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74RNVpzXbA8 at 48:08 he flat out says "It's confusing for the designers".

He also says right after that, "Someone playing a tanky character is not gaining much Ultimate." I had to LOL at this because the big complaint is DKs, who generally play tank style in PvP are gaining TOO MUCH Ultimate.

I don't disagree with you. This is a big change that most of us are rightfully skeptical of. But the proposed change does, at least in theory, sound like it will even out some of the current imbalance plaguing ultimate generation. The Developers could, as you suggest, approach each Ultimately and skill separately to fine tune generation--but that could take months and never actually solve the problem.

Yes, normalizing ultimate gain will kill many of the tactics use to generate lots of ultimate. But it's a small price to fix the non-stop ultimate spam DKs in PvP.

Varicite · January 2015

Kilandros wrote: »

I don't disagree with you. This is a big change that most of us are rightfully skeptical of. But the proposed change does, at least in theory, sound like it will even out some of the current imbalance plaguing ultimate generation. The Developers could, as you suggest, approach each Ultimately and skill separately to fine tune generation--but that could take months and never actually solve the problem.

Yes, normalizing ultimate gain will kill many of the tactics use to generate lots of ultimate. But it's a small price to fix the non-stop ultimate spam DKs in PvP.

They've been using the slow pruning method since launch, and it hasn't really done much if anything to solve the issue.

I'm not surprised that they're using a more aggressive strategy now.

Kilandros · January 2015

Varicite wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

I don't disagree with you. This is a big change that most of us are rightfully skeptical of. But the proposed change does, at least in theory, sound like it will even out some of the current imbalance plaguing ultimate generation. The Developers could, as you suggest, approach each Ultimately and skill separately to fine tune generation--but that could take months and never actually solve the problem.

Yes, normalizing ultimate gain will kill many of the tactics use to generate lots of ultimate. But it's a small price to fix the non-stop ultimate spam DKs in PvP.

They've been using the slow pruning method since launch, and it hasn't really done much if anything to solve the issue.

I'm not surprised that they're using a more aggressive strategy now.

Indeed. If anything the slow pruning method (I like that imagery, btw) has probably made things worse because they trimmed the wrong skills (You nerf Disintegrate by 40%? Really? A passive that only helped increase Sorc DPS on bosses below 20%? Really? Really? That's what "needed" change?).

Like I told OP, I'm definitely skeptical of this change, but I simply don't trust the Devs to get ultimate tuning right without normalizing it across classes.

Joejudas · January 2015

Learn not to stand in batswarm noobs and stop ruining my PvE experience. Thanks

Vahrokh · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

ben_ESO5 wrote: »

AoC is not even close to a fair comparison. I played AoC exclusively from beta till 8 months after release. AoC suffered because of huge problems, and a completely different experience from the opening Island to the rest of the game. ESO's first 8 months hasn't been perfect by any means, but you can't compare it to the train wreck that was the AoC rollout.

Would WarHammer Online be a better comparison. Again, great game, many of the same ideas. While not exactly alike, AvA with Siege.

But they had major problems with class imbalance, and tried to fix them with poorly thought out band-aid solutions.

Where did that get them? http://www.warhammeronline.com/

You might think I'm hating on ESO. I'm not, I really like this game. Just like I liked AoC and Warhammer Online. I don't want to see it go to the wayside like they did because of poorly thought out changes. That's all.

I was exactly about to link Warhammer Online.

I'll tell you what?

I played from day ZERO to the last day.

It's PvP was so much more fun and superior to ESO that if they announced Warhammer Online opened again, I'd drop my ESO sub and would get back to play that.
Acually I am following this private server rebuild, I hope one day it'll get up and running to an enjoyable status.

(Skip to 3:50)

http://youtu.be/YPOlV8TjvEk

BBSooner · January 2015

Joejudas wrote: »

Learn not to stand in batswarm noobs and stop ruining my PvE experience. Thanks

Sorry you won't get to limp through content by ultimate farming. Time to get better.

BBSooner · January 2015

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

Adding a metric to prevent using it as a crutch != dumbing down. People were generating ultimate too quickly, this is ZOS' s response. A response that allows further control over player abilities moving forward.

Bouvin · January 2015

BBSooner wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

Adding a metric to prevent using it as a crutch != dumbing down. People were generating ultimate too quickly, this is ZOS' s response. A response that allows further control over player abilities moving forward.

Taking a metric that actually required experimentation and thought into your build and turning it into "Left mouse click, wait 8 seconds, left mouse click" IS DUMBING IT DOWN.

I'm assuming this is just a L2P issue for you.

Kilandros · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

Adding a metric to prevent using it as a crutch != dumbing down. People were generating ultimate too quickly, this is ZOS' s response. A response that allows further control over player abilities moving forward.

Taking a metric that actually required experimentation and thought into your build and turning it into "Left mouse click, wait 8 seconds, left mouse click" IS DUMBING IT DOWN.

I'm assuming this is just a L2P issue for you.

To be fair, your argument is pretty dishonest because you're intentionally ignoring that some classes could simply out generate other classes in the ultimate department. It had nothing to do with "build." It had nothing to do with "skill." DKs could out generate Sorcerers by virtue of the class skills available to DKs.

They could out generate every class since Day 1. That issue had never been fixed. Never even got close to getting fixed.

So please, don't make dishonest arguments here. You seem to know what you're talking about, even though I think you're becoming increasingly disingenuous to prove a point. But I also know what I'm talking about. Other posters here seem to know what they're talking about. The classes were not balanced with regard to ultimate generation. Full stop. It had nothing to do with build. Nothing to do with skill. Full stop.

BBSooner · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

Adding a metric to prevent using it as a crutch != dumbing down. People were generating ultimate too quickly, this is ZOS' s response. A response that allows further control over player abilities moving forward.

Taking a metric that actually required experimentation and thought into your build and turning it into "Left mouse click, wait 8 seconds, left mouse click" IS DUMBING IT DOWN.

I'm assuming this is just a L2P issue for you.

It is absolutely an L2P issue - learn to complete content without relying so heavily on ultimates as a crutch.

Joejudas · January 2015

Kilandros wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

Adding a metric to prevent using it as a crutch != dumbing down. People were generating ultimate too quickly, this is ZOS' s response. A response that allows further control over player abilities moving forward.

Taking a metric that actually required experimentation and thought into your build and turning it into "Left mouse click, wait 8 seconds, left mouse click" IS DUMBING IT DOWN.

I'm assuming this is just a L2P issue for you.

To be fair, your argument is pretty dishonest because you're intentionally ignoring that some classes could simply out generate other classes in the ultimate department. It had nothing to do with "build." It had nothing to do with "skill." DKs could out generate Sorcerers by virtue of the class skills available to DKs.

They could out generate every class since Day 1. That issue had never been fixed. Never even got close to getting fixed.

So please, don't make dishonest arguments here. You seem to know what you're talking about, even though I think you're becoming increasingly disingenuous to prove a point. But I also know what I'm talking about. Other posters here seem to know what they're talking about. The classes were not balanced with regard to ultimate generation. Full stop. It had nothing to do with build. Nothing to do with skill. Full stop.

Ooooooo the truth comes out....your just mad DKs kill you.

Joejudas · January 2015

@BBSooner‌ what's your fastest SO completion.....are you on the leaderboard.....because making statements like you are I would assume......

Bouvin · January 2015

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Malthorne wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO just took the "thinking" out of gaining Ultimate, which is a huge part of combat. Much how SWG started taking the thinking out of their game.. which eventually ended up in a huge purge of subscribers, and the game getting shut down.

Spamming healing springs on the group before an encounter to farm ultimate wasn't exactly "cerebral gameplay".

Stopping out of combat ultimate generation is a good change. Never should have been allowed in the first place. With that said, I don't think the conversation is about keeping out of combat ultimate generation. It's about the dumbing down of "in combat" ultimate generation

Adding a metric to prevent using it as a crutch != dumbing down. People were generating ultimate too quickly, this is ZOS' s response. A response that allows further control over player abilities moving forward.

Taking a metric that actually required experimentation and thought into your build and turning it into "Left mouse click, wait 8 seconds, left mouse click" IS DUMBING IT DOWN.

I'm assuming this is just a L2P issue for you.

It is absolutely an L2P issue - learn to complete content without relying so heavily on ultimates as a crutch.

Based on your point of view, then they just need to take ultimate out of the game entirely.

End of story.

FYI, as a NB since Beta I have not relied on Ultimate to complete content. NB is by far one of the hardest classes to level.

My issue is how this is going to affect PvP. PvP is going to become a "Stand back and fire off bow light attacks until ultimate is full, then charge in and drop banners and bat swarm" fest.

The fix to Ultimate only WORSENS the problem as far as PvP is concerned.

If there are imbalances in the way each class gains Ultimate, they need to fix those issues. Not drop a band-aid solution that's just going to make things worse.