Maintenance for the week of April 6:
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Dear Zenimax: We don't all want to quest, we want to Play as We Want.
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Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.House Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire4 -
killedbyping✭✭✭✭Yo dawg, i heard you like to play how you want ? So we nerfed all the ways of playing you like, so you can play how we want while we keep saying you can play how you want.Edited by killedbyping on January 15, 2015 2:58PM2 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
They grind. Just because you can't comprehend the fact that there are other ways to play a game than what you think is fun, doesn't mean that we don't.
You don't get to say what most people do, as your view is representative only of yourself and people like you. I have another view and at least I'm not trying to claim that is the right way.4 -
jamesharv2005ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »xarguideb17_ESO wrote: »jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »Questing in ESO is mind-numbingly boring, shallow, unimaginative... in a word: crap.
But just ask the fanbois... you can play the game exactly how you want as long as the way you want is grinding 5000 FedEx and kill X of Y quests.
The quests are as fun as you want them to be.
I see this firsthand in Craglorn:
I have a small group of friends I sometimes do Craglorn quests with. We all like to take our time, enjoy the story and just have a good time. Whenever I play with them, I really get to see the detail that has been put into these quests and get to fully appreciate it. There's always a nice mix of story and action.
And quite frankly, ESO has excellent story driven content. Much more so than other MMOs I've played.
I have to disagree with that statement. Eso had very few memorable moments for me.
On the opposite: Even though SW:TOR was widely not so well received, i can still remember most the Story lines and even some of the normal Quests. For me their story writing and quest design is unmatched in the world of themepark mmos.
I love the questing. I was very happy to be able to do the other faction quests on my regular character rather than having to roll a bunch of alts to experience it. I dont want to speak for everyone but there are according to reports 1.2 million people playing this game at the moment. Seems like a very very very small minority on here complaining in comparison.
You can't just pull a number out of wikipedia that has no source.
All we know for sure: "The game had 772,000 subscribers in June 2014 according to SuperData Research."
I would rather guess that this number has dwindled.
There is no other certain indication to the number of subscribers.
Superdata research is who said 1.2 million subs. Might want to check more updated stories
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/137279/1-2-million-subscribers
[Moderator Note: Edited quote and response to match moderated version]
#1: Superdata is a recent company that hasn't proved being right in anything yet.
#2: ZOS doesn't release any numbers so anything anyone says is pure speculation.
#3: All data about how many subscribers ZOS has/had isn't present in Superdata website anymore.
#4: The only accurate data from platforms like steam/xfire/raptr doesn't even put TESO in the top 20 of the most played games and well behind SWTOR, or ArcheAge
I know a ton of people who play ESO. I dont know even one person who uses steam or xfire. Ive never even heard of raptr. The simple fact is noone but ESO knows how many subs there are. Superdata makes its living doing educated guesses yes. In the end thats all it is. A guess.2 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
They grind. Just because you can't comprehend the fact that there are other ways to play a game than what you think is fun, doesn't mean that we don't.
You don't get to say what most people do, as your view is representative only of yourself and people like you. I have another view and at least I'm not trying to claim that is the right way.
Please explain to us all then on why quests are even in MMOs?
Not my fault that people like to skip the main content of the game, reach X level, then sit around with "nothing to do" after grind spots, which tend to be borderline exploit locations, get FIXED and not nerfed.
Sorry, but playing the game as intended isn't some evil thing.
killedbyping wrote: »Yo dawg, i heard you like to play how you want ? So we nerfed all the ways of playing you like, so you can play how we want while we keep saying you can play how you want.
Except people were getting more xp at certain locations than they should have been.
Eventually most of these locations will get fixed, and then the river of tears shall flow strong.Edited by Zershar_Vemod on January 15, 2015 3:07PMHouse Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire3 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
They grind. Just because you can't comprehend the fact that there are other ways to play a game than what you think is fun, doesn't mean that we don't.
You don't get to say what most people do, as your view is representative only of yourself and people like you. I have another view and at least I'm not trying to claim that is the right way.
Please explain to us all then on why quests are even in MMOs?
Not my fault that people like to skip the main content of the game, reach X level, then sit around with "nothing to do" after grind spots, which tend to be borderline exploit locations, get FIXED and not nerfed.
Sorry, but playing the game as intended isn't some evil thing.killedbyping wrote: »Yo dawg, i heard you like to play how you want ? So we nerfed all the ways of playing you like, so you can play how we want while we keep saying you can play how you want.
Except people were getting more xp at certain locations than they should have been.
Eventually most of these locations will get fixed, and then the river of tears shall flow strong.
Can you even read?
The quests you talk about IS NOT the main content of the game as far as I'm concerned. Tbh they aren't even a part of the game for me.
I sure as hell don't have "nothing to do", because it's an MMORPG and like every other MMORPG it has endgame content - meaningful, challenging content that is fun to play.
I'm sorry, but 300 hours of not even having a chance of dying a single time because the game could be played by a kitten stomping the keyboard is not fun for me. No matter what some writer dreamed up that the NPC in a video game should say.
Before you say that playing endgame isn't "intended" you might want to go outside your tiny, tiny bubble and understand that some people play a game to be challenged, not to watch a half-decent TV series that requires you to press a few buttons for the story to advance.
But yes, I understand who you are now. If you were on EU you'd be one of those people who PM me "reported!!" for grinding overland mobs in Bangkorai.
If ZOS goes your way, hope you enjoy F2P because that's what happens when you screw over half your playerbase.2 -
what you want is an advantage. grinding xp is by far the fastest way to level, so complaining about it being balanced only means your looking for grinding to be favorable and faster than questing, and it shouldn't be, it should be on par with AT BEST and no better. people with short attention spans always looking for a shortcut. you cant claim that QUESTING is boring and then act like GRINDING isnt. grinding only serves one purpose, and that's to skip content and get to VR14 FASTER. keep the enjoyment factor to yourselves, no one believes itEdited by badmojo0777b14_ESO on January 15, 2015 3:23PM4
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Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
They grind. Just because you can't comprehend the fact that there are other ways to play a game than what you think is fun, doesn't mean that we don't.
You don't get to say what most people do, as your view is representative only of yourself and people like you. I have another view and at least I'm not trying to claim that is the right way.
Please explain to us all then on why quests are even in MMOs?
Not my fault that people like to skip the main content of the game, reach X level, then sit around with "nothing to do" after grind spots, which tend to be borderline exploit locations, get FIXED and not nerfed.
Sorry, but playing the game as intended isn't some evil thing.killedbyping wrote: »Yo dawg, i heard you like to play how you want ? So we nerfed all the ways of playing you like, so you can play how we want while we keep saying you can play how you want.
Except people were getting more xp at certain locations than they should have been.
Eventually most of these locations will get fixed, and then the river of tears shall flow strong.
Can you even read?
The quests you talk about IS NOT the main content of the game as far as I'm concerned. Tbh they aren't even a part of the game for me.
I sure as hell don't have "nothing to do", because it's an MMORPG and like every other MMORPG it has endgame content - meaningful, challenging content that is fun to play.
I'm sorry, but 300 hours of not even having a chance of dying a single time because the game could be played by a kitten stomping the keyboard is not fun for me. No matter what some writer dreamed up that the NPC in a video game should say.
Before you say that playing endgame isn't "intended" you might want to go outside your tiny, tiny bubble and understand that some people play a game to be challenged, not to watch a half-decent TV series that requires you to press a few buttons for the story to advance.
But yes, I understand who you are now. If you were on EU you'd be one of those people who PM me "reported!!" for grinding overland mobs in Bangkorai.
If ZOS goes your way, hope you enjoy F2P because that's what happens when you screw over half your playerbase.
That's your problem. Deal with it?
So, tell me, what is point of this game. Obviously for you there is no story / lore, background, etc. Just X spots where you can get more xp than intended.
Why are you even here?
Also got to love your fixation on assuming "end game" is evil and that somehow I want F2P. Seems you are afraid that this game will go F2P and just accuse people of wanting it to go F2P.
Man, the loons sure are coming out of the woodwork this week.badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »what you want is an advantage. grinding xp is by far the fastest way to level, so complaining about it being balanced only means your looking for grinding to be favorable and faster than questing, and it shouldn't be, it should be on par with AT BEST and no better. people with short attention spans always looking for a shortcut. you cant claim that QUESTING is boring and then act like GRINDING isnt. grinding only serves one purpose, and that's to skip content and get to VR14 FASTER. keep the enjoyment factor to yourselves, no one believes it
Someone who gets it finally.Edited by Zershar_Vemod on January 15, 2015 3:26PMHouse Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire5 -
TheShadowScout✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
True. But my point was that grinding is an computer game thing, not an roleplaying game thing as you had indicated. And not a good one IMO, but I suppose some like it more then others...This is not a Pen&Paper game, this an MMORPG. They have sadly nothing to do with one and other. If this was anything like a Pen & Paper game, we'd have non linear random events, an evolving main story and our actions would actually matter and that's a game I'd play for the story/quest and not for the end game.
I can agree to a bit faster to balance the boredom. A lot faster... that I have a bit of a problem with, as this discussion does show.Well grinding is more boring, tiresome and repetitive than questing so we actually where working for it and it should (as it allways has and still does from level 1-50 reward more XP).
Twenty times faster? I may need a drink reading this- ZOS didn't nerf grinding to make you work for the levels, they nerfed it to avoid CP farming which is not the same thing. If they had wanted to nerf grinding then they'd nerf the grind from level 1-50 which is not the case. When update 7 hits, people will effectively be able to grind 20x faster than questers to max which will be level 50. My issue here is that people will be denied that grind till 1.7 hits which is going to make the part of the community that hates questing or got fed up of their main char and decided to reroll: just stop playing.
You do however touch upon a valid point - people who already did all the quests with one character, and would prefer not to spend all that time again.
Of course... a great many other games have just the same issue, and still don't loose players in droves, so maybe you are overestimating its impact a little bit...
I suppose there is some truth in that... but on the other hand, people can do PvP and dungeon crawling at all levels too. And even for questors levels are not at all meaningless, they do track progress, and in a way, game region access. Though I often wish things were not so level-ish in many games, I see that this would be a bit harder to do, and less enjoyable for those who like the feeling of archievement watching their character grow...- If you enjoy questing, then you're not working for anything, you're just enjoying, levels are meaningless, only story advancement so once again, your point doesn't apply since people who grind and don't quest don't enjoy the story and actually have to work hard (gridnding) to get to the part that matters. The only had work you do is pushing the play button to begin questing. That feels unfair to me
.
The thing is, when one way gets someone something very much faster, it vexes the ones doing in the other way. Be it levels, or champion points. As such, I am happy that they seem to not want people mindlessly grind ChP all that easily.
True I suppose. Though I would have to say, unequal rewards would aggrivate former...The only thing that makes people competing at end game leave (at least of PVE side) is the lack of rewards for the effort they put in and lack of people to play with.
The people thing if of course entirely seperate from the whole issue. And very much an individual thing.
Why do you think people who enjoy PvP have to be max level to enjoy it? Just because they won't measure up to all the max level PvP-fanatics one-on-one?I agree! Noone should get special priviledges, then why do people who enjoy questing have the priviledge to play what they like since level 1 and people who enjoy raiding and PVP have to go through 50 levels of grinding plus 14 more levels of long tedious questing? Why are questers priviledged over raiders and PVPers? I mean, it's hard work enough to have to level up your char grinding and then grinding some more for skills to actually get to the part you enjoy and people where fine with it even if it was unfair compared to people who like questing. Thanks for making my point though. As for sociophobia, I ain't gonna make discourteous remarks, I just don't care, as you shouldn't care about people who don't want to quest and just want to get to end game and enjoy it since it doesn't affect you nor the game in a negative way.
People can PvP from level 10 onwards, remember... sure, it will be a bit meh to do that, but adding their contribution while hiding behind a few higher level players can work for a handful of AP until the last thing they see before their respawn is a DK shield-rushing them... (yup, been there, felt that...)
As for special priviledges... you say noone should get any, yet you say those who want the endgame should be allowed to get to max level characters quicker then all others. Sounds like a special priviledge to me...
But I suppose we will never agree on that point htere, hmm? So, lets just not, and live with it.
True, I would much have preferred a game system like morrowind, picking my primary, secondary and tertiary skills, and then levelling those through use...I don't see how you can still be playing then. ESO is so dumbed down (mechanics, attributes, armor), easy and most of all uninteresting (story wise) compared to Morrowind... I finished Morrowind like 5 times, Oblivion 10+, I enjoyed those games. Couldn't stand an other minute of the fracking prophet calling me vestige if my life depended on it. I just do the main story quests on my alts (for skillpoints) with the game on half screen and no sound now...
But I do enjoy the story here. And with all its faults, its still a very interesting game to me, and getting better from all I hear they have planned...
I admit I always choose the prophet during the last mainstory mission with a feeling of satisfaction though, his constant "vestige"-ing me may play into that... 2 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
They grind. Just because you can't comprehend the fact that there are other ways to play a game than what you think is fun, doesn't mean that we don't.
You don't get to say what most people do, as your view is representative only of yourself and people like you. I have another view and at least I'm not trying to claim that is the right way.
Please explain to us all then on why quests are even in MMOs?
Not my fault that people like to skip the main content of the game, reach X level, then sit around with "nothing to do" after grind spots, which tend to be borderline exploit locations, get FIXED and not nerfed.
Sorry, but playing the game as intended isn't some evil thing.killedbyping wrote: »Yo dawg, i heard you like to play how you want ? So we nerfed all the ways of playing you like, so you can play how we want while we keep saying you can play how you want.
Except people were getting more xp at certain locations than they should have been.
Eventually most of these locations will get fixed, and then the river of tears shall flow strong.
Can you even read?
The quests you talk about IS NOT the main content of the game as far as I'm concerned. Tbh they aren't even a part of the game for me.
I sure as hell don't have "nothing to do", because it's an MMORPG and like every other MMORPG it has endgame content - meaningful, challenging content that is fun to play.
I'm sorry, but 300 hours of not even having a chance of dying a single time because the game could be played by a kitten stomping the keyboard is not fun for me. No matter what some writer dreamed up that the NPC in a video game should say.
Before you say that playing endgame isn't "intended" you might want to go outside your tiny, tiny bubble and understand that some people play a game to be challenged, not to watch a half-decent TV series that requires you to press a few buttons for the story to advance.
But yes, I understand who you are now. If you were on EU you'd be one of those people who PM me "reported!!" for grinding overland mobs in Bangkorai.
If ZOS goes your way, hope you enjoy F2P because that's what happens when you screw over half your playerbase.
That's your problem. Deal with it?
So, tell me, what is point of this game. Obviously for you there is no story / lore, background, etc. Just X spots where you can get more xp than intended.
Why are you even here?
Also got to love your fixation on assuming "end game" is evil and that somehow I want F2P. Seems you are afraid that this game will go F2P and just accuse people of wanting it to go F2P.
Man, the loons sure are coming out of the woodwork this week.
I realise that you don't understand anything about playing for competition/challenge, and honestly at this point I also understand that it is impossible for me to explain it so that you get it. I can't even really see whether you are completely trolling, or if it's actually possible to be that oblivious.
Here we go....
Obviously I don't grind because grinding is fun, or finding the best grinding spots is fun. It's really not. I grind because ENDGAME. Because there is content in this game that a kitten can't play, that needs a human brain. It's just hidden away after 50 levels + 14 awful VR levels.
So no, there is no story / lore here whatsoever. I enjoyed Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim as much as the next person, but this story does not have any appeal to me. It's just some voice actors telling me I need to fetch x flowers or kill x mobs.
I'm here (I repeat myself in case you didn't get it) to play a challenging game. Currently that is pretty much only competing for fast times in Trials, PVP and VDSA. All require max level to be competetive.
All I'm here to do is get the message out to ZOS that there is a large portion of the community that may unsub because of these changes, since they often listen to reason after making stupid changes.
For me? I don't give a ***, I have 5 max level characters and I will continue playing them until endgame is no longer fun. I'm just trying to help secure other potential hardcore players can still play this game, so they don't completely murder the community.badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »what you want is an advantage. grinding xp is by far the fastest way to level, so complaining about it being balanced only means your looking for grinding to be favorable and faster than questing, and it shouldn't be, it should be on par with AT BEST and no better. people with short attention spans always looking for a shortcut. you cant claim that QUESTING is boring and then act like GRINDING isnt. grinding only serves one purpose, and that's to skip content and get to VR14 FASTER. keep the enjoyment factor to yourselves, no one believes it
Yep, I do want it to be faster. Or they could give a million XP per quest, for all I care. I want questers to get exactly the rewards they want, because I'm not a selfish ***. I sincerely just want a shortcut to get to fun content (again, any content that couldn't just as well be played by having a kitten on the keyboard).
3 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
They grind. Just because you can't comprehend the fact that there are other ways to play a game than what you think is fun, doesn't mean that we don't.
You don't get to say what most people do, as your view is representative only of yourself and people like you. I have another view and at least I'm not trying to claim that is the right way.
Please explain to us all then on why quests are even in MMOs?
Not my fault that people like to skip the main content of the game, reach X level, then sit around with "nothing to do" after grind spots, which tend to be borderline exploit locations, get FIXED and not nerfed.
Sorry, but playing the game as intended isn't some evil thing.killedbyping wrote: »Yo dawg, i heard you like to play how you want ? So we nerfed all the ways of playing you like, so you can play how we want while we keep saying you can play how you want.
Except people were getting more xp at certain locations than they should have been.
Eventually most of these locations will get fixed, and then the river of tears shall flow strong.
Can you even read?
The quests you talk about IS NOT the main content of the game as far as I'm concerned. Tbh they aren't even a part of the game for me.
I sure as hell don't have "nothing to do", because it's an MMORPG and like every other MMORPG it has endgame content - meaningful, challenging content that is fun to play.
I'm sorry, but 300 hours of not even having a chance of dying a single time because the game could be played by a kitten stomping the keyboard is not fun for me. No matter what some writer dreamed up that the NPC in a video game should say.
Before you say that playing endgame isn't "intended" you might want to go outside your tiny, tiny bubble and understand that some people play a game to be challenged, not to watch a half-decent TV series that requires you to press a few buttons for the story to advance.
But yes, I understand who you are now. If you were on EU you'd be one of those people who PM me "reported!!" for grinding overland mobs in Bangkorai.
If ZOS goes your way, hope you enjoy F2P because that's what happens when you screw over half your playerbase.
That's your problem. Deal with it?
So, tell me, what is point of this game. Obviously for you there is no story / lore, background, etc. Just X spots where you can get more xp than intended.
Why are you even here?
Also got to love your fixation on assuming "end game" is evil and that somehow I want F2P. Seems you are afraid that this game will go F2P and just accuse people of wanting it to go F2P.
Man, the loons sure are coming out of the woodwork this week.
I realise that you don't understand anything about playing for competition/challenge, and honestly at this point I also understand that it is impossible for me to explain it so that you get it. I can't even really see whether you are completely trolling, or if it's actually possible to be that oblivious.
Here we go....
Obviously I don't grind because grinding is fun, or finding the best grinding spots is fun. It's really not. I grind because ENDGAME. Because there is content in this game that a kitten can't play, that needs a human brain. It's just hidden away after 50 levels + 14 awful VR levels.
So no, there is no story / lore here whatsoever. I enjoyed Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim as much as the next person, but this story does not have any appeal to me. It's just some voice actors telling me I need to fetch x flowers or kill x mobs.
I'm here (I repeat myself in case you didn't get it) to play a challenging game. Currently that is pretty much only competing for fast times in Trials, PVP and VDSA. All require max level to be competetive.
All I'm here to do is get the message out to ZOS that there is a large portion of the community that may unsub because of these changes, since they often listen to reason after making stupid changes.
For me? I don't give a ***, I have 5 max level characters and I will continue playing them until endgame is no longer fun. I'm just trying to help secure other potential hardcore players can still play this game, so they don't completely murder the community.badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »what you want is an advantage. grinding xp is by far the fastest way to level, so complaining about it being balanced only means your looking for grinding to be favorable and faster than questing, and it shouldn't be, it should be on par with AT BEST and no better. people with short attention spans always looking for a shortcut. you cant claim that QUESTING is boring and then act like GRINDING isnt. grinding only serves one purpose, and that's to skip content and get to VR14 FASTER. keep the enjoyment factor to yourselves, no one believes it
Yep, I do want it to be faster. Or they could give a million XP per quest, for all I care. I want questers to get exactly the rewards they want, because I'm not a selfish ***. I sincerely just want a shortcut to get to fun content (again, any content that couldn't just as well be played by having a kitten on the keyboard).
Oh, believe me, I used to be competitive here (was focused on PvP heavily in Beta / launch and used to do dungeons more often), but you fail to realize that end-game is not the focus on TESO. It is the story / lore via all the quests we have, and, after all is said and done, we get little snippets of content / things to do (Trials and so forth) while we wait for new areas to be added, etc.
For you personally, the game is just end-game, which overall, leaves you with next to nothing. Now, if broken parts of the game (grind spots rewarding more xp than intended) get fixed, what happens? Well, like in you rage posts show, a minority gets angry because they can no longer exploit something.
Although some people focus on certain aspects of the game more than others, that doesn't change the core / default gameplay, which for TESO is doing quests.
You limited yourself, that is your own problem that you need to live with and should expect more fixes to come...and then guess what? You'll need to make a simple adaptation via actually playing the core game.
You want shortcuts? Expect disappointment.Edited by Zershar_Vemod on January 15, 2015 3:52PMHouse Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
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Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
Your inability to accept anything remotely differing from your own opinion is something that will get you somewhere in life. I just can´t imagine where.
You say you don´t have to claim a thing. Yet you claim that most mmos handle leveling through quests. Do you even understand the sentences you´re writing?
Major MMO releases ive played that we´re based around, consisted partially or offered grinding as an alternative way to level your character: DAoC, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, Eso (up to 1.5.8)<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
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Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
Your inability to accept anything remotely differing from your own opinion is something that will get you somewhere in life. I just can´t imagine where.
You say you don´t have to claim a thing. Yet you claim that most mmos handle leveling through quests. Do you even understand the sentences you´re writing?
Major MMO releases ive played that we´re based around, consisted partially or offered grinding as an alternative way to level your character: DAoC, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, Eso (up to 1.5.8)
And those did so well, right?
Sorry, but if the truth upsets you, then I don't know what to tell you. Questing is a norm.House Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire2 -
Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
They grind. Just because you can't comprehend the fact that there are other ways to play a game than what you think is fun, doesn't mean that we don't.
You don't get to say what most people do, as your view is representative only of yourself and people like you. I have another view and at least I'm not trying to claim that is the right way.
Please explain to us all then on why quests are even in MMOs?
Not my fault that people like to skip the main content of the game, reach X level, then sit around with "nothing to do" after grind spots, which tend to be borderline exploit locations, get FIXED and not nerfed.
Sorry, but playing the game as intended isn't some evil thing.killedbyping wrote: »Yo dawg, i heard you like to play how you want ? So we nerfed all the ways of playing you like, so you can play how we want while we keep saying you can play how you want.
Except people were getting more xp at certain locations than they should have been.
Eventually most of these locations will get fixed, and then the river of tears shall flow strong.
Can you even read?
The quests you talk about IS NOT the main content of the game as far as I'm concerned. Tbh they aren't even a part of the game for me.
I sure as hell don't have "nothing to do", because it's an MMORPG and like every other MMORPG it has endgame content - meaningful, challenging content that is fun to play.
I'm sorry, but 300 hours of not even having a chance of dying a single time because the game could be played by a kitten stomping the keyboard is not fun for me. No matter what some writer dreamed up that the NPC in a video game should say.
Before you say that playing endgame isn't "intended" you might want to go outside your tiny, tiny bubble and understand that some people play a game to be challenged, not to watch a half-decent TV series that requires you to press a few buttons for the story to advance.
But yes, I understand who you are now. If you were on EU you'd be one of those people who PM me "reported!!" for grinding overland mobs in Bangkorai.
If ZOS goes your way, hope you enjoy F2P because that's what happens when you screw over half your playerbase.
That's your problem. Deal with it?
So, tell me, what is point of this game. Obviously for you there is no story / lore, background, etc. Just X spots where you can get more xp than intended.
Why are you even here?
Also got to love your fixation on assuming "end game" is evil and that somehow I want F2P. Seems you are afraid that this game will go F2P and just accuse people of wanting it to go F2P.
Man, the loons sure are coming out of the woodwork this week.
I realise that you don't understand anything about playing for competition/challenge, and honestly at this point I also understand that it is impossible for me to explain it so that you get it. I can't even really see whether you are completely trolling, or if it's actually possible to be that oblivious.
Here we go....
Obviously I don't grind because grinding is fun, or finding the best grinding spots is fun. It's really not. I grind because ENDGAME. Because there is content in this game that a kitten can't play, that needs a human brain. It's just hidden away after 50 levels + 14 awful VR levels.
So no, there is no story / lore here whatsoever. I enjoyed Morrowind/Oblivion/Skyrim as much as the next person, but this story does not have any appeal to me. It's just some voice actors telling me I need to fetch x flowers or kill x mobs.
I'm here (I repeat myself in case you didn't get it) to play a challenging game. Currently that is pretty much only competing for fast times in Trials, PVP and VDSA. All require max level to be competetive.
All I'm here to do is get the message out to ZOS that there is a large portion of the community that may unsub because of these changes, since they often listen to reason after making stupid changes.
For me? I don't give a ***, I have 5 max level characters and I will continue playing them until endgame is no longer fun. I'm just trying to help secure other potential hardcore players can still play this game, so they don't completely murder the community.badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »what you want is an advantage. grinding xp is by far the fastest way to level, so complaining about it being balanced only means your looking for grinding to be favorable and faster than questing, and it shouldn't be, it should be on par with AT BEST and no better. people with short attention spans always looking for a shortcut. you cant claim that QUESTING is boring and then act like GRINDING isnt. grinding only serves one purpose, and that's to skip content and get to VR14 FASTER. keep the enjoyment factor to yourselves, no one believes it
Yep, I do want it to be faster. Or they could give a million XP per quest, for all I care. I want questers to get exactly the rewards they want, because I'm not a selfish ***. I sincerely just want a shortcut to get to fun content (again, any content that couldn't just as well be played by having a kitten on the keyboard).
well then let me retort. MAN UP and earn your XP the same way everyone else did. you can QUEST or you can GRIND but you aren't going to get it done any faster than anyone else who put the EFFORT and TIME into it than we did. you aren't special despite what your parents may have told you. you can earn it just like the rest of us. no harder, no easier no faster and no slower.
I apologize if I sound offensive, its not intended but I simply don't know another way to say it. your not going to get it any faster than anyone else did. good luckEdited by badmojo0777b14_ESO on January 15, 2015 4:04PM4 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »what you want is an advantage. grinding xp is by far the fastest way to level, so complaining about it being balanced only means your looking for grinding to be favorable and faster than questing, and it shouldn't be, it should be on par with AT BEST and no better. people with short attention spans always looking for a shortcut. you cant claim that QUESTING is boring and then act like GRINDING isnt. grinding only serves one purpose, and that's to skip content and get to VR14 FASTER. keep the enjoyment factor to yourselves, no one believes it
You don´t grasp the concept that grinding is not about having an advantage on anyone questing do you? It is about skipping content a player does not enjoy.
But if i may ask? What advantage does an endgame pve or pvp player have over somebody that does the solo pve part? When do they actually meet in the game? I don´t get why it bothers you what people you will most likely never meet ingame do with their game time.
Edit: The game is over 7 months old. The point where people had an advantage from leveling (and actually exploiting) is long gone. People wanting to do so have reached the endgame months ago.
Apart from that veteran levels are going to get clipped out of the game because they are unpopular content because of the slow progression. The recent xp nerf is most likely dedicated to xp grind spots prior to 1.6 and champion point farming. With 1.7 50 will be max level and NOT A THING SINCE THE RELEASE OF THE GAME has been changed about 50 being grindable in about a day of playtime.
God i would love for eso to be an open pvp game. All you narrow minded people would flood the forums crying because you´re getting wrecked by murderous lunatics while doing quests. I would be here to tell you that its content you have to get used to because that is the intend way of playing. Nobody cares if you don´t like it. Thats just the way it is.
Wait no. I would not do that because i can understand that different players actually enjoy different types of content and forcing content on people they don´t enjoy is not a good thing to do.Edited by Derra on January 15, 2015 4:12PM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 503 -
seanvwolf✭✭✭✭"Play the way you like" doesn't mean "Use every exploit you can."
Those grind spots are so popular because some unintentional boost to mob proximity, pop or experience is happening which the players, as a community, tend to exploit. I don't want people whining about not doing quests (because they are boring) when grinding is (by its very nomenclature "grind") just about the most boring thing to do in games.
If you wanted a grind, just make a game where you are always in one room with one enemy that instantly pops with a decent RNG loot and a merchant to sell your goods to and access a world store with other players also stuck in a single room with their own instant pop mob. In other words, don't be ridiculous.Edited by seanvwolf on January 15, 2015 4:08PM3 -
seanvwolf✭✭✭✭For me an exploit is such a thing, what is based on in-game bug and people use the bug to obtain advantages; but Rkundzelft is definitely not a bug, just a game provided mechanic.
An exploit is not always the result of a bug. An exploit can be something based off of unintentional gameplay.0 -
Valencer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Can you or can you not level up by grinding post-1.5.8? If not, why not?
If it now takes more time to grind to VR14, does it take more time than questing or doing dungeons or even PvPing? I'm going to guess "no".
Here's what I'm really seeing: grinding should be a shortcut to vr14 because endgame is more fun. That's good. We have an argument for grinding.
Here's a counter-argument: Questers or dungeoneers might want to reach endgame too within a reasonable amount of time. Grinding was apparently giving an unbalanced amount of XP in certain spots and that's why ZOS nerfed those spots. Expecting grinding to catapult you ahead of the rest just isn't realistic. Definitely not when the champion system finally arrives.
I'm sure somebody will discover the next best grind spot soon anyway.
The real underlying issue here is that apparently reaching endgame takes too long, causing people to want to shortcut the road to VR14. We've already heard ZOS is planning to remove veteran ranks one day so we know they're trying to deal with that issue. I feel like all this complaining about grinding being killed or being too good is just overlooking that key fact.Edited by Valencer on January 15, 2015 4:13PM2 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »Zershar_Vemod wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religios beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
Good for them then? Guess they were the main focus of the playerbase. Everyone I've played with do quests mainly and Cyrodiil. So..what's your point exactly?
Also, yup, thanks for confirming that you are mad. Let the hate flow thru you and so forth.
Going to assume you are talking about that cancerous entity that is WoW. Thanks for assuming that anyone who doesn't tend to deviate from the standard leveling practices is some WoW player.
But please, continue - it's entertaining.
My point is that you assume because you and your ingame social peers used a certain way to level up you persume that way as the only rightful and intend way (My experiences in that regard are different and therefor my perceivend intended leveling experience does not match yours).
I don´t know what to say any further. By claiming i was hateful just because i beg to differ from your opinion (of course the only true and right one) you have made pretty clear that your intentions in this thread are not of constructive nature.
Again please think about it: just because you claim something to be a standard it will not be. You can´t force your personal opinion on other people and it is a rather extreme view to have.trimsic_ESO wrote: »I guess you have not played as many mmos as you have claimed. You would know better in regards of questing from level 1 to max on rails was something a game that shall not be named has established in the world of mmos.
Believe it or not.
Edit: Most people i started this game with grinded even on their first character. So it seems to me questing is indeed not the default way to play the game. Again please try to not devalue other approaches just they don´t match your personal point of view. It is a matter of perspective.
Edit2: I could make up a real nice analogy involving religious beliefs but that is something i´d rather not touch
But the champion system is not yet another new VR. Yes, you can grind XP to level up quickly your VR if you want to. But trying to grind CP to reach quickly the new champion system cap is against what the champion system is meant for, in my opinion.
IMHO, the champion system is a mean to provide the players with a continuous and smooth progression system so they are rewarded while playing ESO. The only source of CP in such a system should be the activities you normally do when playing ESO once you are VR14, i.e. Cyrodiiil for the PVP fans, completing dungeons for the PVE fans, or completing daily quests for both.
Implementing the champion system another way will kill the game.
Where was i talking about the champion system? People are complaining that the game does not offer them an alternative to questing the normal veteran levels that are here to stay for atleast patch 1.7 so till mid of april if we´re really generous.
I don´t understand where you´re coming from. Care to elaborate?
I'm sorry, but what? Please, tell me what most MMO players do other than level up mainly on quests (and PvP).
You've obviously been here since the beginning of MMOs wise sage. I don't have to claim a thing - TESO, and most MMOs handle leveling through quests, missions, etc.
You personally *** about hating repetition, and you still think it's others who have an issue haha.
Your inability to accept anything remotely differing from your own opinion is something that will get you somewhere in life. I just can´t imagine where.
You say you don´t have to claim a thing. Yet you claim that most mmos handle leveling through quests. Do you even understand the sentences you´re writing?
Major MMO releases ive played that we´re based around, consisted partially or offered grinding as an alternative way to level your character: DAoC, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Aion, Rift, Eso (up to 1.5.8)
And those did so well, right?
Sorry, but if the truth upsets you, then I don't know what to tell you. Questing is a norm.
Because of by all of what we know eso is doing well. Yeah (not that the success of a game has anything even remotely to do with my statement).
Again. Your perceived truth does not equal the truth for everybody. If you fail to grasp that concept you´re going to have a lot of bad times in your life. I don´t know what else to say.<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭The real underlying issue here is that apparently reaching endgame takes too long, causing people to want to shortcut the road to VR14. We've already heard ZOS is planning to remove veteran ranks one day so we know they're trying to deal with that issue. I feel like all this complaining about grinding being killed or being too good is just overlooking that key fact.
I agree with you 100%. The problem is that they rebalanced it for a system that doesn't exist, while removing the option to "shortcut" through the crap system that so many has hated from the beginning (VR system, even ZOS has stated it sucks).
If anyone thinks that ZOS intention is to remove grinding, they can stop kidding themselves. Grinding is still super fast in 1-50, at least 20x faster than questing, and that will never change.
This is simply a rebalance without thinking about the consequences. ZOS left stuff like Hircine in for half a year (only reason it stopped working was because boss XP modifier doesn't exist anymore, it was not even intentionally nerfed) because they knew that they had to provide an alternate advancement path for people who hated the system they had.
If VR ranks were gone, we wouldn't have this argument. However I'll be surprised if VRs aren't here in April still, and considering that, 4 months is a long time to not get any new players (for the HC/endgame community).
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TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭TheShadowScout wrote: »
Many stuff.
Needed KoolAid when I said, grinding to 50 is 20x faster than questing
It actually is ^^, you can get to level 50 in about 16h-20h of grinding when you know how to build your character into a mob killing machine & you go to the correct spots. And that will be how people get to max level once 1.7 hits.
Other than that, dun think there's much to argue about anymore. Let us grind to max in peace please, "All quest and no play makes Jack a dull boy" and we know how that ends. 1 -
Lynnessa✭✭✭✭At least with grinding spots everybody has a fair chance.
Do they, though?Say you were gonna grind some xp. You go to your favorite grind spot and what do you find but another grind group (or two or three or however many) already killing all the things. Now you can't grind because someone else is using it.
Is that fair, when that can't happen with other ways to get xp?
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Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pretty sick of the quests. There is no point other than for the xp. I don't even listen to or read the text options. Just press "E" "E" "E"
Grinding should be viable. They backed themselves into a corner with the way they are handling the release of CP System and now are over reacting and getting draconian on our **ses.2 -
Zershar_Vemod✭✭✭✭✭Pretty sick of the quests. There is no point other than for the xp. I don't even listen to or read the text options. Just press "E" "E" "E"
Grinding should be viable. They backed themselves into a corner with the way they are handling the release of CP System and now are over reacting and getting draconian on our **ses.
It was never intended to be a prime source of gameplay / xp gain....so why should they?
Edit: You know what, let me help you and hold your hand, let me highlight a portion of my post. You see, grinding will get you xp, everyone expects some sort of partial grind every now and then, but it was never meant to be a prime source of xp in this game. Some areas gave more than intended...a bug, etc. as a reason. ZOS noticed that and then fixed said area to give the amount of xp that was intended. those who exploited those bugs had their fun and must now gain normal levels of xp for the most part.
Otherwise we would not have gotten all the quests, lore, backstories, etc. Hell, we wouldn't have gotten an Elder Scrolls game, but instead some pointless drivel.Edited by Zershar_Vemod on January 15, 2015 5:46PMHouse Nyssara (NA)
Black Market Traders
Order of the Lamp Post
Thorn Brigade
VR15 Nightblade Vampire2 -
Pretty sick of the quests. There is no point other than for the xp. I don't even listen to or read the text options. Just press "E" "E" "E"
Grinding should be viable. They backed themselves into a corner with the way they are handling the release of CP System and now are over reacting and getting draconian on our **ses.
grinding is viable, its just not a short cut or fast track. grinding is actually faster from1-50. I don't know about vr ranks but you aren't asking for it to be viable, you want it to be faster, and it shouldn't be any faster for you than anyone else who leveled thru questing or grinding. you can put in the same time and effort as everyone else who is VR14Edited by badmojo0777b14_ESO on January 15, 2015 5:45PM2 -
ZOS_UlyssesW✭✭✭Hello, everyone.
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Vizier✭✭✭✭✭
✭badmojo0777b14_ESO wrote: »Pretty sick of the quests. There is no point other than for the xp. I don't even listen to or read the text options. Just press "E" "E" "E"
Grinding should be viable. They backed themselves into a corner with the way they are handling the release of CP System and now are over reacting and getting draconian on our **ses.
grinding is viable, its just not a short cut or fast track. grinding is actually faster from1-50. I don't know about vr ranks but you aren't asking for it to be viable, you want it to be faster, and it shouldn't be any faster for you than anyone else who leveled thru questing or grinding. you can put in the same time and effort as everyone else who is VR14
Don't give me that. Dude. My veteran rank leveling has come from PvP mostly. It's very SLOW and a couple of my toons ground through 10-50 while getting some levels through PvP as well. So please don't put words or assume context. I've been here since launch, play every day and my highest level character is nearing vet 6. So I've put in the same time and most vet 14 characters got their through grinding with accelerated xp gain from Crag grinds. So now that I have a mindset to grind some vet levels like everyone else had a chance to do I can't because some self absorbed cheese whined about it to ZOS as if the grinding hurt them. LOL.0 -
knightblaster✭✭✭In MMOs, the "core" playerbase wants to play the endgame. Questing is generally loathed due to how inefficient it is in terms of progressing to endgame. Yes, MMO companies keep making games that are filled with quests -- which is content that the core players generally don't want and don't even consider proper "content", per se -- primarily as a means of slowing progress through their game. This is understandable, but it creates a lot of tension, because there is all of this quest content that the core players don't care about at all. That's why you see people grinding their levels (all of them, not just VRs) -- questing is very much unliked by many of the "core" MMO playerbase, because it is seen as primarily a means of slowing them down from the aspect of the game that they consider proper content -- endgame PvE and PvP where they can compete with the skills of other players on a level playingfield, stat-wise. That is the "core" of what an MMO is for the "core" players.
Note this isn't "all" MMO players, or likely even a "majority" of MMO players (and it isn't the way I myself play MMOs personally, either), but it *is* the "core" players way of approaching (the players who tend to play the most hours and who tend to play lots and lots of online competitive games, including MMOs).
I've often thought a lot of money could be made creating a game which had only a 5-10 hour tutorial, and then 20 tiers of difficult, progressive, group content -- all in there at release. Basically a game which really is endgame from the very beginning. No open world, no crafting, no lore and any of that stuff. Just endgame PvE in tiers and PvP. I think that would be a very popular game, if done well, with the "core" playerbase.
Until we see that, I think we'll always have this tension between the common game design of questing, and the core players who want to bypass that because they don't enjoy it at all, and will find every way possible to do so.5 -
burningcrow✭✭✭I'm new but I don't really like quests that have me pick something up out of a basket to bring it over to another NPC only to be told to go talk to another NPC. I got weapons and spells and sometimes it's annoying when a quest will take a long time to complete when all I want to do is just use my abilities. It's a bit much sometimes.0