roechacca wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

...

Well, if you think the current situation is all fine and dandy I hope you're not a game developer.

Apologies if I'm misinterpreting your witty meme reply, but that's the vibe I'm getting from the post I replied to.

I don't think the current system is fine anymore . I agree with OP . They need to stop nerfing XP for different play styles .

They are not nerfing. They are equalizing.

The way it should be is 1 hour questing = 1 hour grinding = 1 hour PvP

I think right now, PvP is at a disadvantage (from what I hear), and you can still get more XP from grinding than you can get from questing if you know what you're doing.

Personally, since they changed the Vet ranks to 1 million XP, it feels like I'm just breezing through them while enjoying the game. One day I was V9, and all of a sudden I was V14.

Now my sorc who just beat Molag Bal half-way through V2 is working her way through V3 just by running around Craglorn gathering mats and doing activities with the guild.

Leveling only feels long if you're looking at your XP bar all the time.

As many said before, call a spade a spade and accept that they have closed the loop on some exploitive grinding spots that allowed a lot of people to level up quickly with little risk. Now that they reduced some of the xp and instant respawns, is there anything stopping you from continuing to grind these mobs? Any reason you can't continue to kill those mobs in repetition, just without getting a VR level everyday? Then accept the fact you can still 'play how you want', just don't expect the rewards to be as great with method A rather than Method B.

Now, let's address what I feel is the real issue that most have, which is dome feel the road from level 1 to VR 14 is very long and tedious if you ONLY do questing. I personally do like the questing, but there should be some additional tweaks to give more avenues of growth.

Zone exploration bonus - we get experience from discovering new areas and discovering new things, but for working hard by finding every location, killing every world boss, completing the quests in an area, and doing the dungeon there should be a much larger reward, say about a 2x experience rewarded for the expected total of the zone, so players notice it.

Dungeon clearing and hard mode clearing - Dungeons give good experience but a lot of people skip and bypass mobs because they just delay progress. Give something extra to players who clear every minion and miniboss. Folks can still rush through and kill what they need for their gold or silver key, but killing everything they may get an additional bonus exp. In asedition to that, the last boss should award more exp when completed on hardmode, at least 2x, to promote the challenge when not on a pledge.

Crafting experience - not a major bit of experience, but a little bit of experience every crafting level increase. This is just another pool of experience to add inot the major pot and promotes crafting as you level.

Collecting resources in dangerous areas - a little like GW2, where you could get experience from successfully harvesting from nodes. This would not apply to safe areas like towns or crafting writ locations, but nodes around mobs (like those annoying wasps in craglorn) where you need to fight your way to get it.

Training gear with experience increases - training gear is useful at lower levels when you need to learn various armor and weapon skills, but it's useless to any that already top of level. Even exploration seems to be limited on its use after you've seen everything. Adding in experience modifiers, say maybe 1-1.5-2-2.5% (with 7 armor slots and 2 weapon slots that's a range of 8% to 22.5%) more experience for general killing mobs or completing achievements. Those numbers could be tweaked better, but giving a full 100% bonus at gold level seems excessive.

Boss bounty hunting - Every day (to start) or few hours (as you level up), a list of level appropriate bosses pop up. Killing the bosses lands standard experience, but killing the entire list will net higher experience and gold reward when done. Failing to kill the entire list will result in a lesser reward. Think of them as crafting writs for monster slaying. This honestly was what i'd hoped the fighters guild passive would be.


With experience as it is now, implementing some of these ideas should help new and returning players catch up to level while offering some variety to us higher levels. In addition to this there is also the new justice system to consider, which I hope will offer things like experience rewards for stealing and not being caught.


Lets nor jus make this another game where grinding and questing are the only ways to grow, let's find other ways and keep things challenging and rewarding =3.

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

[...]
Zone exploration bonus - we get experience from discovering new areas and discovering new things, but for working hard by finding every location, killing every world boss, completing the quests in an area, and doing the dungeon there should be a much larger reward, say about a 2x experience rewarded for the expected total of the zone, so players notice it.

Dungeon clearing and hard mode clearing - Dungeons give good experience but a lot of people skip and bypass mobs because they just delay progress. Give something extra to players who clear every minion and miniboss. Folks can still rush through and kill what they need for their gold or silver key, but killing everything they may get an additional bonus exp. In asedition to that, the last boss should award more exp when completed on hardmode, at least 2x, to promote the challenge when not on a pledge.

Crafting experience - not a major bit of experience, but a little bit of experience every crafting level increase. This is just another pool of experience to add inot the major pot and promotes crafting as you level.

Collecting resources in dangerous areas - a little like GW2, where you could get experience from successfully harvesting from nodes. This would not apply to safe areas like towns or crafting writ locations, but nodes around mobs (like those annoying wasps in craglorn) where you need to fight your way to get it.

Training gear with experience increases - training gear is useful at lower levels when you need to learn various armor and weapon skills, but it's useless to any that already top of level. Even exploration seems to be limited on its use after you've seen everything. Adding in experience modifiers, say maybe 1-1.5-2-2.5% (with 7 armor slots and 2 weapon slots that's a range of 8% to 22.5%) more experience for general killing mobs or completing achievements. Those numbers could be tweaked better, but giving a full 100% bonus at gold level seems excessive.

Boss bounty hunting - Every day (to start) or few hours (as you level up), a list of level appropriate bosses pop up. Killing the bosses lands standard experience, but killing the entire list will net higher experience and gold reward when done. Failing to kill the entire list will result in a lesser reward. Think of them as crafting writs for monster slaying. This honestly was what i'd hoped the fighters guild passive would be.
[...]

Nice ideas. There are achievements tied to some of these things already; do you think maybe applying an XP reward to achievements would work?

Think of them as crafting writs for monster slaying. Sure, essentially dailies that could be offered by the City Guards or the Fighters Guild to wipe out the Group Bosses or a set of new World Bosses that only appear when someone has the list given to them.

Oh boo-f*-hoo, ZOZ is ironing out the grindspots.

If you don't want to quest, you can, i don't know, stay in the forest, killing boars :-) You will then be mightier than the mightiest player who is stronger than the admins themselves. You know, a couple of million boars (or mudcrabs to put it into ESO context).

I'm not saying there aren't other ways to gain XP, just that grinding isn't the answer. There shouldn't be a "way of play" that grants XP 10x, hell even 100x faster than regular gameplay.

And every game i know and play combats grinding.

Off the top of my head:
GTA V Online - the first month (X360 release) - people were replaying one single job (not the one you could glitch by sticky bombs and win it in 30 secons or less) over and over again. Next update Rockstar released combated that. They lowered rewards for repeated completions of a job. Significantly. Then they removed the replay job button if you completed it succesfully.
And they were banning people that previously abused this (i think mostly the sticky bomb guys tho).

You "enjoyed" your grinding time, now hop on for some regular content

Vicodine wrote: »

Oh boo-f*-hoo, ZOZ is ironing out the grindspots.

If you don't want to quest, you can, i don't know, stay in the forest, killing boars :-) You will then be mightier than the mightiest player who is stronger than the admins themselves. You know, a couple of million boars (or mudcrabs to put it into ESO context).

I'm not saying there aren't other ways to gain XP, just that grinding isn't the answer. There shouldn't be a "way of play" that grants XP 10x, hell even 100x faster than regular gameplay.

And every game i know and play combats grinding.

Off the top of my head:
GTA V Online - the first month (X360 release) - people were replaying one single job (not the one you could glitch by sticky bombs and win it in 30 secons or less) over and over again. Next update Rockstar released combated that. They lowered rewards for repeated completions of a job. Significantly. Then they removed the replay job button if you completed it succesfully.
And they were banning people that previously abused this (i think mostly the sticky bomb guys tho).

You "enjoyed" your grinding time, now hop on for some regular content

There's nothing wrong with grinding, it just needs to provide comparable XP for time invested.

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Nice ideas. There are achievements tied to some of these things already; do you think maybe applying an XP reward to achievements would work?

I'd say that some rewards shouldn't apply backwards. You could reset certain zone level achievements by adding in a few new requirement, but some of the passive exp bonuses with full dungeon clearing, crafting, and dangerous location gathering is to promote some different game aspects and help late adopters catch up to us higher levels.

Yeah there will be bitching like "yeah back in my day we had to complete every quest in a zone with 2 feet of snow. Then we had to grind mobs, up hill, both ways, and we were grateful" but better to get more folks I can play with I'd say.

Two feet of snow, you were lucky lad, in my day it were a month long blizzard, and we didn't grind the mobs, the mobs ground us, and we had to queue for the privelege.

Edit~ some humour involved

heroofnoneb14_ESO wrote: »

Crafting experience - not a major bit of experience, but a little bit of experience every crafting level increase. This is just another pool of experience to add inot the major pot and promotes crafting as you level.

You do get XP from completing Crafting Writs, FWIW.

Also, opening chests. A friend decided they were going to get the 1000 chests achivement and they went from V9 to V10 running around opening chests and killing the odd skeever foolish enough to cross their path.

It mentions this nowhere in the patch notes. Are you sure you are factoring in the level difference between you and the mobs?

I was in Spellscar just yesterday along with a VR4 NB and neither of us had any XP issues...? If they did lower it, it went from about 900/ to 700/ - hardly a huge jump considering it not longer takes a bazillion VP's/level now.

Regarding bosses, for replayability, fine. For leveling, they big XP's should happen on the first kill. After that, they should be just another creature.

Stuff like the scorpion grind may have been tolerated/not changed, but fairly sure it's not what they had in mind, either.

PBpsy wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Don't worry. It will be a week before they nerf questing because every single player is grinding quests instead of slowly strolling through tamriel and listening to the story line.

No they will just make it so that you can't skip the dialogue anymore. The will also include a reading comprehension quiz after every book to make sure you earned that Mage's guild exp. It's only fair and equlizy .

LOL, reading comprehension test, some of us are in trouble, not me of course, I can read all day. Sometimes I will focus my entire attention of a single line of text, going over it again and again, just to be sure I understand it correctly.

(Yes, I did just take the mickey out of myself, so there).

roechacca wrote: »

I understand what you want . You want players to play your way .

Then you really don't understand.

I want a game where questing, grinding, dungeoneering or PvPing gives everybody a somewhat equal (or close) pace of progression.

Like you said, it's all about being inclusive. I just don't think that grinding having a 2x or even 5x higher XP return than questing or PvP is inclusive in the slightest.
This is what forces PvPers to go grind to be able to actually do PvP and compete in Cyrodiil and what forces questers to go grind to be able to actually do anything else.

I think the skill point argument isn't that good, because Cyrodiil has plenty of skyshards and PvP progression awards skill points too. Now, maybe Cyrodiil has less total skill points, and I would totally support making that more even. PvP needs a lot of love, actually.

magnusnet wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

There is no point in arguing, everyone in their sane mind is able to understand that EVERYONE should be EQUAL. Equal XP gain for everyone, not matter what they prefer doing.

Grinding is still faster than questing, and questing is still faster than PvP, so how is that equal?

When Champion System launches, I really hope ZOS will track the XP gain. If there is any exploit I expect immediate nerf via hotfix.

That is until we're at:

Grinding xp = Questing xp = PvP xp = PvE xp

If they are taking a longer time to balance everything in the game and this is why all this delay, then I salute them.

Grinding may level a character faster but that leveled toon will be stunted with dozens of missing skill points only available in quests . Stop with the whole inequality crap . Because that's exactly what it is .

A fully leveled toon from questing will always be better outfitted and have more skills .

Xp would be equal which is the only thing that matters, so your point?
Doing quests is still much more skill based than grinding, so your point again?

If you chose to grind than that is your problem, you are missing all the skillpoints yes. However most of skillpoints come from exploration anyway.
If you decided to grind, you should not be rewarded at all, that was your choice, just face it.

Nothing against grinders, it's just stupid arguing with people who think grinding should be "rewarded". For what lol?

Just LOL, you speak of equality in rewards then you bash the people who decide to take one of the two paths. Just pure bull *** as usual.

It's not only the XP that matters. Grinding is for people who want to get fast to end game, they are penalized by not getting as much gold rewarded or skillpoints from the main story line and mages and fighters guild wich isn't "a few". So yeah, they deserve to level up faster and since we're in a play as you want game that should equally reward every player for the time invested (as you pointed out) then yeah grinding should be rewarded as much as questing.

magnusnet wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

roechacca wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

There is no point in arguing, everyone in their sane mind is able to understand that EVERYONE should be EQUAL. Equal XP gain for everyone, not matter what they prefer doing.

Grinding is still faster than questing, and questing is still faster than PvP, so how is that equal?

When Champion System launches, I really hope ZOS will track the XP gain. If there is any exploit I expect immediate nerf via hotfix.

That is until we're at:

Grinding xp = Questing xp = PvP xp = PvE xp

If they are taking a longer time to balance everything in the game and this is why all this delay, then I salute them.

Grinding may level a character faster but that leveled toon will be stunted with dozens of missing skill points only available in quests . Stop with the whole inequality crap . Because that's exactly what it is .

A fully leveled toon from questing will always be better outfitted and have more skills .

Xp would be equal which is the only thing that matters, so your point?
Doing quests is still much more skill based than grinding, so your point again?

If you chose to grind than that is your problem, you are missing all the skillpoints yes. However most of skillpoints come from exploration anyway.
If you decided to grind, you should not be rewarded at all, that was your choice, just face it.

Nothing against grinders, it's just stupid arguing with people who think grinding should be "rewarded". For what lol?

Just LOL, you speak of equality in rewards then you bash the people who decide to take one of the two paths. Just pure bull *** as usual.

It's not only the XP that matters. Grinding is for people who want to get fast to end game, they are penalized by not getting as much gold rewarded or skillpoints from the main story line and mages and fighters guild wich isn't "a few". So yeah, they deserve to level up faster and since we're in a play as you want game that should equally reward every player for the time invested (as you pointed out) then yeah grinding should be rewarded as much as questing.

When you grind your time invested was significantly less. playing for a couple hours a day I was making a VR level a day in spellscar.