1.6 ULTIMATE GENERATION, CHANGE IT! WHAT WE KNOW

Tankqull · January 2015

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

I think I have never agreed more with a post on this forum since I registered.

What ZOS proposed was uncalled for and such a major change that it is almost impossible to fathom how this game will look when they launch 1.6.In end game pve the amount of systems and content they have to balance around this change is massive. I do not expect that the game will be playable at launch in places like Vet dungeons and trials.

I know how it will look. We'll see a whole lot less continuous Batswarm and Veil of Blades Spamming Impulse groups. I can't fathom how this would be considered a bad thing except from those pretty much entrenched in Impulse Spam Bat Swarming Blob running combat...shrug. Go ZoS!

Those Impulse groups will be able to hit n run but they won't have the sustainability they have now. That's a good thing in my book.

yea doesnt mess with pve solo builds at alll...................

only for NBs and DKs - Sorcs and Temps lack the ulti gain by design (amount of dots/additional ulti build per target hit) and morso use- and powerfull ultis.

Bouvin · January 2015

Gaining Ultimate is going to be all about the zerg standing back and firing off bows and healing till they are full.

This doesn't solve any of the issues and is a stupid mistake by ZOS.

Spangla · January 2015

MADshadowman wrote: »

Haven't read most of the comments, cause there are too many now, but one thing i'd like to know is:

What if you have a toon that has 2 melee weapons on both bars, let's say sword and board + 2 handed, that has to attack a ranged target with class skills, cause he can't get close enough to the target to use light attacks? Does that mean this toon will not generate any ultimate in this situation?

Precisely - Another example of zenimax "thinking things through"

not...

IceDread · January 2015

This change shows zos has no clue what they are doing here

I'm not surprised after having seen some of the responsible persons talk however, for me it sort of explains why we see changes like this.

Eso 8:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74RNVpzXbA8

Watch from 43 min 45s and after having seen it, come back and tell us if you have confidence in these people.

It was disappointing to me

It shows how little they knew about their own skills in the game and the synergies of them. They can not have had a skill module/ map where they can see the effects of different synergies and balance it or anything like that. (for example, 59:50 shows that, 1h29min ~20s shows it even more, why did it take this long time for them to figure that out? )

Mjollnir_NL · January 2015

I almost have no problema with how it works now. Just 1 thing. When i tank it is very difficult to get a ultimate. Because i just keep the boss bussy and save as much resources to taunt, shield, bash and slash. Would be nice to get a little more ultimate when doing that. But i could be doing it wrong.

WolfingHour · January 2015

Mjollnir_NL wrote: »

I almost have no problema with how it works now. Just 1 thing. When i tank it is very difficult to get a ultimate. Because i just keep the boss bussy and save as much resources to taunt, shield, bash and slash. Would be nice to get a little more ultimate when doing that. But i could be doing it wrong.

I agree and the new system will allow just that. Happy days!

Volla · January 2015

nukeemstudiosub17_ESO wrote: »

I love how everyone thinks Nightblades tanks have no skill.

First thing, its not a one button spam fest.

Unlike EVERY other class a NB has NO personal shielding In the class skill trees.
They have to rely on a good variety of skills to be able to do what they do.

When fighting a large group, most of my time is spent casting shields and trying to survive. I assume most of the time for a DK is spent trying to just survive.

Its a far cry from being a one button pulse spammer.

As Spangla said," All this change will do is cause them to die in a more boring, linear playstation 1 type combat style way."

"Noobs think they die because of these "op" people who batspam - they think this change will stop them dieing.

It wont - they die because they are bad..."

LOL!!

Perma press block buttons and use magica abilities because you can is a lot of skills yes.... L2P .... allready tried this ... easy as pie nabb

Volla · January 2015

So much flame about the ultimate generation ... atm its an abuse of ultimates. I think this is the best change iv seen so far. 1.6 finally will people consider and use ultimates in good or worse situations not abusing them.

Ex:
Vamps - Perma spam bats
DK - Flag's

You will do it when it counts, how in the hell can that be bad change?

WolfingHour · January 2015

Volla wrote: »

So much flame about the ultimate generation ... atm its an abuse of ultimates. I think this is the best change iv seen so far. 1.6 finally will people consider and use ultimates in good or worse situations not abusing them.

Ex:
Vamps - Perma spam bats
DK - Flag's

You will do it when it counts, how in the hell can that be bad change?

Messing with people's comfort zones is always problematic.

Lorkhan · January 2015

i like the change zenimax proposed.

Nijjion · January 2015

Volla wrote: »

You will do it when it counts, how in the hell can that be bad change?

Because at the moment someone with a more effective build or play style or skill get's it a lot quicker... when the change comes in everyone will get it the same time regardless of playstyle or skill they just need to remember to do a light attack once in a while.

Though to point out there's nothing wrong with it... if they implemented this at the start and we didn't have the original ult regeneration we wouldn't of minded. (Ignorance is bliss right?)... but now we are accustomed how this game plays but this totally changes how the game is played and that's what people don't like.

Jack-0 · January 2015

Valnas wrote: »

please listen. The idea that the current system is too complicated is kind of insulting honestly. This new proposed system is so carebare and game altering I can't understand it. Why not just curb out of combat healing ulti gain ?

I'm guessing they're dumbing it down for console players, because if it's not a gun or a car they won't really know what it's for and how to use it o.O

Seriously though I don't like this change much myself, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way ulti generation works right now and I'm a bit baffled as to why they'd bother introducing gear that boosts ulti generation in update 5 only to have to rewrite the properties for update 6.

MADshadowman · January 2015

Volla wrote: »

You will do it when it counts, how in the hell can that be bad change?

And when does it count?

If i have 1 dk that whips my face off or 6 people jumping me, i need my ultimate to protect myself. it does always count.

Bouvin · January 2015

IceDread wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74RNVpzXbA8

Watch from 43 min 45s and after having seen it, come back and tell us if you have confidence in these people.

It was disappointing to me

It shows how little they knew about their own skills in the game and the synergies of them. They can not have had a skill module/ map where they can see the effects of different synergies and balance it or anything like that. (for example, 59:50 shows that, 1h29min ~20s shows it even more, why did it take this long time for them to figure that out? )

The change to Ultimate is just sad. Sad sad sad.

Basically, what they are doing is taking a dynamic system, that actually encourages people to try different combinations and dumbing it down to a light attack.

Yeah for Left Mouse click.. Left Mouse click... Left Mouse click...

For me, this will almost completely ruin the game. Glad I'm only on a monthly plan...

Bouvin · January 2015

Jack-0 wrote: »

I'm guessing they're dumbing it down for console players, because if it's not a gun or a car they won't really know what it's for and how to use it o.O

Seriously though I don't like this change much myself, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the way ulti generation works right now and I'm a bit baffled as to why they'd bother introducing gear that boosts ulti generation in update 5 only to have to rewrite the properties for update 6.

Exactly. Their development team couldn't figure out how to make it work on console (as they say in the video it was too complicated for them).

So they are just going to dumb it down for console, completely ruining the experience for players on the PC.

I'm sure glad I got to blow the cash on the Imperial Edition + Adventurer's pack + $15 a month since day one to participate in the YEAR LONG PAID BETA TEST for the console that I won't be buying...

Bouvin · January 2015

Honestly, why bother making us do a light attack.

Just make it add 3 per second while in combat. Isn't that easier? Cause it's basically what the system is going to be....

I never thought I'd see a company kill their game faster than Funsoft killed Age of Conan, but this could be it!

XEVENEX · January 2015

The butthurt from block casters, zerg balls, and people who refuse to weave in this thread is astounding. I like the ultimate change. In fact I think they should buff weapon enchants to further encourage their use, and punish those propped up by holding block.

Tankqull · January 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

I never thought I'd see a company kill their game faster than Funsoft killed Age of Conan, but this could be it!

AoC was dead quicker as the mass of player were used to higher standarts at that time, TESO released at that time would have been allready dead as AoC,
but the last generations of MMOS lowered the standarts so far...

Spangla · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

The butthurt from block casters, zerg balls, and people who refuse to weave in this thread is astounding. I like the ultimate change. In fact I think they should buff weapon enchants to further encourage their use, and punish those propped up by holding block.

they are making the game BORING. You will see... by the time it is too late and the game worse.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting Comments]

Spangla · January 2015

Also this thread is definitely being pushed from the first page of the forum..

Spangla · January 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

jjf42001_ESO wrote: »

Vizier wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

I think I have never agreed more with a post on this forum since I registered.

What ZOS proposed was uncalled for and such a major change that it is almost impossible to fathom how this game will look when they launch 1.6.In end game pve the amount of systems and content they have to balance around this change is massive. I do not expect that the game will be playable at launch in places like Vet dungeons and trials.

I know how it will look. We'll see a whole lot less continuous Batswarm and Veil of Blades Spamming Impulse groups. I can't fathom how this would be considered a bad thing except from those pretty much entrenched in Impulse Spam Bat Swarming Blob running combat...shrug. Go ZoS!

Those Impulse groups will be able to hit n run but they won't have the sustainability they have now. That's a good thing in my book.

yea doesnt mess with pve solo builds at alll...................

only for NBs and DKs - Sorcs and Temps lack the ulti gain by design (amount of dots/additional ulti build per target hit) and morso use- and powerfull ultis.

Genuine lol.

Sorc has best ulti gain - streak.

Araxleon · January 2015

I like the new ult gen.

Spangla · January 2015

What is to like,

I can do light attack, leave my desk and look out the window for 8 seconds and I will have earned basically the same amount of ult as someone who has been fighting in a crowd of people.......

Um good one........

Please leave ult alone and stop listening to nap tears.

Tavore1138 · January 2015

Throwing the baby out with the bath water.the current system works fine except in limited cases for limited ultimates. They should have fixed those situations.

It is like the veteran content nerf all over again - rather than tweaking what needs changing they nerf a whole system.

Now we will be forced to time between using a light hit even if it is not the most effective move in the situation overall.

Lazy design.

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2015

ChannelTribes wrote: »

Most of you that watched ESO live probably know that ultimate is changing in 1.6. For those of you that don't know here is what is changing.
• You now only gain ultimate from doing light attacks, you will gain 3 ultimate per second over 8 seconds then you will have to reapply the light attack to continue to gain ultimate. People that heal another player that did an auto attack recently will also gain 3 ultimate every second for 8 seconds. These do not stack.
•Skills like carve or the NBs passive that generate ultimate will not provide a buff instead of giving you ultimate. Here is an example (not confirmed numbers) Activating carve increases the ultimate you gain over 8 seconds. Does not stack with other passives.
•Passives like combat frenzy or the werewolf passive will be changed to make sure players don't take advantage of the new ultimate system.
•**No comment was made on sets but it can be inferred that things like blood spawn or the werewolf set will change.**
*IF YOU'RE WONDERING WHERE I GOT SOME OF THIS INFORMATION: It is from ESO live and some of it is from Erlexx who is a member of entropy rising and he mentioned several of these changed and answered questions about it this morning*

Why these changes are a bad idea:
•It makes combat and ultimate almost like a CHORE you have to use light attacks every 8 seconds to continue to gain ultimate and you acquire it over a long period of time. Gaining ultimate should be an incentive not a chore.
•Most players that want to be competetive in groups will be FORCED to use a healing skill to make sure they accumulate ultimate as fast as they can.
•I don't ever recall players crying on the forums about the ultimate generation system, so why change it?
•It promotes and helps bad builds. It makes it so players don't have to focus on AoE based builds and every one pretty much gets the same ultimate. ZOS is adjusting the AoE caps, but the main point of AoEs were to generate ultimate at least that's how my build was based unless they were a glass cannon AoE DPS.
•It will hit werewolf really hard... (EDIT)

ZOS claimed on ESO live that ultimate mechanics are to complicated in the current state (I say LOL to that) here's what I know about how ultimate works.

“any” critical hit/heal/dot tick (no matter what dmg/heal amount) = 1 Ultimate
“any” damage/heal greater than 1% and lower than 5% of target’s max. HP = 1 Ultimate
“any” additional 4% of damage dealt, after the first 1% = 1 additional Ultimate
“any” additional 6% of healing done, after the first 1% = 1 additional Ultimate
Ultimate skills, can not generate Ultimate points, not even with critical hits

Proposed Idea:
•Since AoE caps are being removed to some degree I think it would be nice to see ultimate have a factor in AoE caps as it should. New AoE cap information:
The cap is being raised from 6 to 60.
The first 6 targets will receive 100% damage.
The next 24 targets will receive 50% damage.
The final 30 targets will receive 25% damage.
•Why doesn't ZOS just make it so the next 24 targets give you 50% less ultimate? The next 30 targets give you 75% less ultimate on AoE damage?
•ZOS claimed this change was mainly being added in to make it so tanks can be viable and have a better way of generating ultimate (I think that's BS since I run dailies and see tons of WW+Blood Spawn tanks). They should focus on adding a heavy armor passive to help tanks in 7/7 Heavy gain X ultimate for every time they are damaged.
•OR maybe ZOS could make it so the light attack buff stacks..

Please feel free to discuss.

This is why everyone needs to get in on PTS and voice their frustration with this change.

They wont care to listen to us on this til we test it. And while it shouldnt be that way. It should be quite evident this change will not make things better.

We are limited to 10 abilities and 2 ultimates. And while I dont disagree with the limited abilities and ultimates. This makes it a no brainer for me when it comes to my stance on anything that prevents me from engaging my ultimate.

Youre right it shouldnt be a chore to engage an ultimate. Its there to be used. Sure its special but it shouldnt be so special that dont see it often in a game with 12 abilities to use at any given time.

Joy_Division · January 2015

Nijjion wrote: »

Volla wrote: »

You will do it when it counts, how in the hell can that be bad change?

Because at the moment someone with a more effective build or play style or skill get's it a lot quicker... when the change comes in everyone will get it the same time regardless of playstyle or skill they just need to remember to do a light attack once in a while.

Though to point out there's nothing wrong with it... if they implemented this at the start and we didn't have the original ult regeneration we wouldn't of minded. (Ignorance is bliss right?)... but now we are accustomed how this game plays but this totally changes how the game is played and that's what people don't like.

This is false. You are assuming dubious features implemented at launch would be acceptable to the community because we are incapable of pointing out the flaws in these features or devising ways to improve them.

patrykplawskib16_ESO · January 2015

Rip pvp AoE zergs everywhere once this patch comes live, not that there arn't already but it'l get worse being able to hit that many target I prefer what we have now.

Cody · January 2015

I think the change will be a good thing. Ultimates will no longer be spammed to Oblivion, People will have to take down their ridiculous never ending blocks for once, and it will force players to learn how to balance their ability usage, as spamming Impulse and whatnot will no longer give ultimate

and how is someone who does not focus on AOE a bad player? What is wrong with focusing on 1v1/ small skirmish combat? not everyone wants to pick up a destro staff and spam impulse, or pick up DW and spam steel tornado and all the other AOEs out there.

If vet dungeons remain as they are now, then yes, they will be unplayable when this new system comes in. But ZOS is likely going to make some changes to accommodate for this new system: lets give it a chance and see how it plays out on release before making up doomsday theories.

Cody · January 2015

PBpsy wrote: »

Muizer wrote: »

PBpsy wrote: »

Another PVPer that thinks that all the game systems should be balanced around the fact that they couldn't get out of the way of the huge AoE spamming zerg.Awesome

PvP is part of the game, you know. There are legitimate complaints. Sure, it may mean PvE players will have to adapt, but doesn't imply in any way that PvE balance should be sacrificed.

PvE is part of the game, you know. There are legitimate complaints. Sure, it may mean PVP players will have to adapt, but doesn't imply in any way that PvE balance should be sacrificed.

oh for petes sake, stop that! PvE and PvP are equal concerns, no need to act like someone on a nerd rage:)

batswarm being casted every 6 seconds is ridiculous. It has nothing to do with avoiding it. it should be something you have to use strategically, not basically a 6th slot in your bar.

and before you act like an elitist and call me a "baddy" or whatever insult people these days use, I RARELY get killed by batswarm. Yes, it is easy to dodge. Heck I don't even have to dodge it, I just fear the player and they run from me, wasting their ultimate. But it is an ultimate(do not pull up the textbook definition like you did last time I saw you) if it was meant to be spammed like it is, then why not just make it a 6th regular ability, why call it an "ultimate"? This applies to pretty much every ultimate in the game.

I myself welcome this change. I am tired of seeing a DK drop 3-5 banners every fight. If this change forces people to stop relying on ultimates, and to rely on their skill as a player, then I am all for it.

Hopefully it wont screw over the tanks. That is the part of it that I am worried about

Cody · January 2015

Nijjion wrote: »

AshySamurai wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

What they are doing is pretty much putting a cooldown on ultimates.

What they are doing is making ultimate ability truly ultimate instead of spammable. Yep, now you have to think when to use.

Yeah that's good and bad at the same time. Ignorance would've been bliss if they had it work like that from the start but this changes a lot about the game we already know and play at the moment.

It's a nerf more to DKs than to any of the others as well (DKs heavily rely on it for resource sustain). Though some will love this extra hit to DKs. Interesting to see what DKs will have left after the patch Think a lot of them will go stam with the buffs to medium armor/stam.

Guess we can finally moan about the other classes semi OP skills haha

Sparks OP
Snipe OP
Critical rush OP
momentum OP
Impale OP
breath of life OP
shadow cloak OP
sap essence OP
Strife OP
Mages Fury OP
crystal shards OP
Getting killed OP

I can see it now