Faction Change - let's have the option please

Djem · January 2015

People are going overboard with the requirements. Faction Change is a pretty sensible thing to ask for. No need to limit how many times a character can do it.

TehMagnus · January 2015

You guys fail to realize that if faction change is allowed you'll eventually end up with empty alliances. And eventually with everybody in the same alliance.

Nerver gonna happen.

daemonios · January 2015

Mordria wrote: »

I think something like EQ2's betrayal quest in ESO would be fun. When it was first introduced in EQ2 it was a really tough quest that took days to complete.

I've proposed the same thing in another earlier thread. A betrayal would be a great way to do this. Also, because nobody trusts serial turncoats, it could justify 1 faction change per character.

As for content, I think the concerns are valid. The level of areas changes according to which faction you're in. But that could be fixed by making it a requirement that the character have completed all content in the main story and Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

hutchinsonhatch wrote: »

Go, re-roll, if you make the wrong decisions and accept them. Don't try to buy your way out.

I started playing during one of the Beta stages. I then subscribed and created a number of characters on Early Access. At the time there wasn't any Cadwell's Silver or Gold - your faction choice affected what content you'd get to experience. I specifically made at least one character in each faction so I'd be able to explore the whole world.

Later, we were allowed to do other factions' zones with the same character. And also later I started doing PvP and joining guilds, which I didn't do at the very start. I now have a strong connection to DC, and none to EP or AD, despite having high-level characters in those factions.

To call this a "wrong decision" is callous at best...

In any case, the important thing is that some people (myself included) really would like to change factions on some characters, and that would take away NOTHING from players who don't want the same thing. Nobody loses, some win. Is that so wrong?

TheShadowScout · January 2015

Djem wrote: »

People are going overboard with the requirements. Faction Change is a pretty sensible thing to ask for. No need to limit how many times a character can do it.

You think so? The three facrions are kinda at war... when someone leaves their homeland at times of war and joins their enemies, that's usually a pretty big thing. Kinda called "treason". Or as Putin is rumoured to have said after the Litvinenko case... "You can't leave and not expect some... fallout..." ;-þ

While this is a game, if a defection option was implemented, it ought to be a big deal. most MMOs I know of don't have that option... but it would be neat to have it here, if only limited so people don't overuse it...

Even though I am unlikely to ever use that for any of my characters, I would like to see the option exits in the game. Even if rare/limited/difficult/with annoying consequences.

WolfingHour · January 2015

Vizier wrote: »

Dude. After CP system is completely in place it won't matter much. You just have to level a toon to 50 and your good to go.

Except if the original toon has time spent in any crafting professions except alchemy and provisioning. In other words, the crafting professions that require research time.

Nijjion · January 2015

ESO has really weak server and guild pride/community, we don't need to lose alliance pride(however much we have).

If they implement this change it would be the worst thing that comes to the game, that includes the adding of AoE caps and that's my worst hated thing in ESO

AlexDougherty · January 2015

JamilaRaj wrote: »

I, for one, do not want to see failed individuals buying membership in our noble Covenant. Choice of faction should be permanent and account-wide.

Not Account wide, I play all three factions, and when I have tried PVP it's focused as the faction I'm playing for.

But no need for faction changes. The last MMO I played had people wanting a faction change too, I think people have been spoiled by faction swapping in other games.

Volla · January 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

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TheShadowScout wrote: »

The whole point is to offer a fraction change option as alternative to just rerolling the character. Which is only a issue when a character is somewhat advanced anyhow.

True enough, but a character is more than just the sum of its stats. So I would hope that this process would carry in-character repercussions (one of those "affect the world" choices that people bemoan the quests for lacking).
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TheShadowScout wrote: »

Of course, it should be limited to once per character. And perhaps even give a new title "-original fraction- defector"... But if it lessens the characters advancement, it would be worthless.

But it wouldn't really do that, it would just prevent them undertaking normal actions in their old Faction. Nothing to stop them from doing things in their new one though.
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TheShadowScout wrote: »

It -could- add a special drawback thogh... like, say, earning only half AP in PvP for a while (noone trusts the "traitor" yet), or even forever (some stimga never fade...) - that would make any PvP-enthusiast really think twice about switching alliances I suppose...

...better that than offering the option with no consequences or limits and having people change faction at the drop of a helmet .

i give you a short answer : NO Faction change.

Father · January 2015

Zenimax should make all quests scale to lvl first, then yeah why not get the option to change faction.
I suggest a panelty for 1 week no pvp buffs for the player who changed faction.

Gidorick · January 2015

Roll another character. Too many repercussions for allowing a faction change. It would be abused.

onlinegamer1 · January 2015

Faction Change Implementation

1. create a mapping between all skyshards of all 3 faction-specific zones. Upon faction change, alter the state of "absorbed" Skyshards using this mapping. Non-faction specific zones are ignored (i.e. Coldharbor, Cyrodiil, Craglorn)
2. create a mapping between all 3 faction-specific zone-specific quests. Upon faction change, alter the state of "quest completion" and "achievements" using this mapping. Main story quests and quests from guilds and non-faction-specific zones are ignored.
3. create a mapping between all exploration "points" of all 3 faction's zones. Upon faction change, alter the state of discovery of these points using this mapping. Non-faction exploration points are ignored.
4. create a mapping between the remaining items: delves, anchors, world bosses, and group dungeons. Repeat the same process (unmark old faction's as "done", mark new faction's as "done").

Gee, imagine that, I came up with how to do it, mechanically, in literally 5 minutes.

WolfingHour · January 2015

I want this so bad.

UrQuan · January 2015

I have no desire to change factions on any of my characters, just because I've got multiple characters in each faction. Having said that, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea if it was something along the lines of this:

daemonios wrote: »

A betrayal would be a great way to do this. Also, because nobody trusts serial turncoats, it could justify 1 faction change per character.

As for content, I think the concerns are valid. The level of areas changes according to which faction you're in. But that could be fixed by making it a requirement that the character have completed all content in the main story and Cadwell's Silver and Gold.

Seems like the best way for it to work to me.

Drasn · January 2015

daemonios wrote: »

I then subscribed and created a number of characters on Early Access. At the time there wasn't any Cadwell's Silver or Gold - your faction choice affected what content you'd get to experience. I specifically made at least one character in each faction so I'd be able to explore the whole world.

That's a lie. Cadwell's Silver and Gold was in the game at launch of early access. In fact it was added during beta because people complained about not wanting to roll alts and experiencing everything on one toon.

As for the matter at hand, no you should not be able to change alliances.

My reasons:
-The explorers pack...it was a preorder bonus to play any race in any alliance, a bonus that is not supposed to return.

-Faction imbalance - there are people that would switch sides to the winning faction over and over.

-No need # 1- You can already see all content in the game on one character, and you are not restricted from rolling another character in a different alliance.

-No need # 2 - It is too easy to reach level 50, if you really want a lvl 50 in another faction it takes just around 2 days. (From there grind spots are a bit over 1hr/Vet level.)

Father · January 2015

Faction change or explorer pack enabled for everyone >_<

UrQuan · January 2015

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

My reasons:
-The explorers pack...it was a preorder bonus to play any race in any alliance, a bonus that is not supposed to return.

I always thought that was silly. In every TES game you see characters of all races living in whatever province you're in. Sure, there are going to be more dunmer than khajiit in Morrowind, but there are going to be khajiit living there too. Why shouldn't all players be able to pick whichever race they want regardless of faction? Based on the main story it's not like the faction you're in is necessarily your home anyway - it's just where you happen to turn up after you escape from Coldharbour.

Of course, I pre-ordered the Imperial edition anyway (the collecters edition version that came with a cool coffee table book and a statue of Molag Bal), so I had the ability to play any race in any alliance, but I always thought that everyone should have that ability, pre-order or no.

daemonios · January 2015

thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

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daemonios wrote: »

I then subscribed and created a number of characters on Early Access. At the time there wasn't any Cadwell's Silver or Gold - your faction choice affected what content you'd get to experience. I specifically made at least one character in each faction so I'd be able to explore the whole world.

That's a lie. Cadwell's Silver and Gold was in the game at launch of early access. In fact it was added during beta because people complained about not wanting to roll alts and experiencing everything on one toon.

As for the matter at hand, no you should not be able to change alliances.

My reasons:
-The explorers pack...it was a preorder bonus to play any race in any alliance, a bonus that is not supposed to return.

-Faction imbalance - there are people that would switch sides to the winning faction over and over.

-No need # 1- You can already see all content in the game on one character, and you are not restricted from rolling another character in a different alliance.

-No need # 2 - It is too easy to reach level 50, if you really want a lvl 50 in another faction it takes just around 2 days. (From there grind spots are a bit over 1hr/Vet level.)

You're right, that was my mistake. I didn't remember exactly when Cadwell's Silver and Gold were introduced. You could be a little less belligerent, though, and acknowledge that people make mistakes, and that does not make them liars. Anyway...

- I see no valid reason (i.e. lore or game mechanics) to dictate that you can only play certain races in certain factions. Some people might have preordered to get that chance, but I (being one of those who preordered) wouldn't feel deprived of anything if 1 year later everyone was allowed to do it.

- Switching sides is relative, since as you recognize yourself there's the possibility of re-rolling a new character. As for "over and over", I do think it might cause some issues, which is why I proposed a pretty restrictive limit of 1 change per character (not that I oppose some other less restrictive rule, but yes, I think you shouldn't be able to just switch factions every day).

- I know I can experience all content with one character. That's not the point. The point is I made characters in different factions that I can't group with the people I regularly play with.

- I don't like grinding. It's a valid playstyle for anyone, but I can't do it. I've never skipped a single area on 5 characters. Besides, I actually care about my created characters, to which I've dedicated a lot of time. I'm weird like that, go figure, a guy playing an (MMO)*RPG* who gives a damn about his creations.

I have to say again, I don't see why players would have resistances to other players being able to switch factions if they so want. Developers I understand - they'd have to put in some extra work to make it possible, as there are real issues that need addressing. But they're not unsolvable.

jeevin · January 2015

daemonios wrote: »

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thomas.k.grayb14_ESO wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

I then subscribed and created a number of characters on Early Access. At the time there wasn't any Cadwell's Silver or Gold - your faction choice affected what content you'd get to experience. I specifically made at least one character in each faction so I'd be able to explore the whole world.

That's a lie. Cadwell's Silver and Gold was in the game at launch of early access. In fact it was added during beta because people complained about not wanting to roll alts and experiencing everything on one toon.

As for the matter at hand, no you should not be able to change alliances.

My reasons:
-The explorers pack...it was a preorder bonus to play any race in any alliance, a bonus that is not supposed to return.

-Faction imbalance - there are people that would switch sides to the winning faction over and over.

-No need # 1- You can already see all content in the game on one character, and you are not restricted from rolling another character in a different alliance.

-No need # 2 - It is too easy to reach level 50, if you really want a lvl 50 in another faction it takes just around 2 days. (From there grind spots are a bit over 1hr/Vet level.)

You're right, that was my mistake. I didn't remember exactly when Cadwell's Silver and Gold were introduced. You could be a little less belligerent, though, and acknowledge that people make mistakes, and that does not make them liars. Anyway...

- I see no valid reason (i.e. lore or game mechanics) to dictate that you can only play certain races in certain factions. Some people might have preordered to get that chance, but I (being one of those who preordered) wouldn't feel deprived of anything if 1 year later everyone was allowed to do it.

- Switching sides is relative, since as you recognize yourself there's the possibility of re-rolling a new character. As for "over and over", I do think it might cause some issues, which is why I proposed a pretty restrictive limit of 1 change per character (not that I oppose some other less restrictive rule, but yes, I think you shouldn't be able to just switch factions every day).

- I know I can experience all content with one character. That's not the point. The point is I made characters in different factions that I can't group with the people I regularly play with.

- I don't like grinding. It's a valid playstyle for anyone, but I can't do it. I've never skipped a single area on 5 characters. Besides, I actually care about my created characters, to which I've dedicated a lot of time. I'm weird like that, go figure, a guy playing an (MMO)*RPG* who gives a damn about his creations.

I have to say again, I don't see why players would have resistances to other players being able to switch factions if they so want. Developers I understand - they'd have to put in some extra work to make it possible, as there are real issues that need addressing. But they're not unsolvable.

I couldn't have said it better so I won't

+1

Zhoyzu · January 2015

a one time faction switch when you complete the main story should be available. and it should be a one time deal which locks your account for several months from making another faction switch.

My sorc crafter is stuck on AD and now hes pretty much just a mule because well... hes stuck there when i moved to a better alliance.

Cathexis · January 2015

They should allow faction swapping to even the pvp server pops.
Loyalty should be a choice, but it shouldn't be forced upon you.
They could make it a salary based system whereby factions with lower pops would pay higher daily pvp salaries.

Gidorick · January 2015

My knee-jerk reaction is to say "no, re-roll.". And I did say that earlier.

I think people asking for a "one-time change" is kind of interesting. Whatever rationalization you can come up with wanting to change once can be used for wanting to change twice, thrice, or any number of times.

That being said... Having a deserter or traitor option would be interesting option for ESO... being that there is a faction war. Players could be given additional awards for killing players that deserted their faction. I always liked Diablo's "ear" trophy... that would be cool to be able to collect the ears of traitors as trophies.

I think there's a larger idea here that could add another level of depth to the faction war...

DeLindsay · January 2015

hammer_fella wrote: »

It's got nothing to do with abuse.

You aren't just transferring a character disconnected from the world, you're transferring all that character's progress and accomplishments, which are in another faction. All the areas you had discovered, all the skyshards you had collected, and all the quests you had completed would be in Veteran zones now, for example.

Oh you mean just like it's impossible for Blizzard to Faction change you from Horde to Alliance? Or maybe you meant how it's impossible for many other MMO's to do the exact same thing. Your logic is wrong, it's not remotely impossible to do, ZoS could add it to ESO if they wanted to.

DaniAngione · January 2015

In the end, faction only matters for your PVP/Cyrodiil allegiance... Of course, each faction has its own areas and such, but they're all accessible on Veteran Ranks anyway, and they're not different (no quests or dialogue changes)...

So, it could work like that: you just change your PVP allegiance. Everything outside Cyrodiil stays the same. (Of course, for it to make sense, it would require you to have finished the main story - so, probably a "Betrayal" VR1 quest would be the best possibility.

Doing it differently would be too complicated for the reasons stated above: skyshards/cleared content/etc...

Oh, but I have a guess they'd never do it because it would kind of 'kill' the exclusivity of the pre-order bonus (Any race in any faction)

Forestd16b14_ESO · January 2015

Sorry but I disagree with this. The lore already had it's spine broke with any race in any alliance we really don't need pay to swap.

DaniAngione · January 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Sorry but I disagree with this. The lore already had it's spine broke with any race in any alliance we really don't need pay to swap.

Tamriel is a gray world, not a polarized one. There are millions of reasons for the different races to live away from their homelands and serve under different banners... I see no breaking of lore on the "any race any alliance" thing... In fact, it's essential for the world of Nirn to feel as alive as it has always been painted in the single-player games...

Or are you telling me there are no characters from all the other races in Skyrim's Skyrim, Morrowind's Morrowind, Oblivion's Cyrodiil and such? :P

DeLindsay · January 2015

ZoS does need to implement this option (as a paid option just like other MMOs) for various reasons players have mentioned here. Also Paul Sage needs to come through with what he said they were working on, and that's cross-Faction instanced content like Trials, DSA, Dungeons (Delves in Craglorn) etc. He said the week of Craglorn's launch that they were working on making that possible due to just about every Guild that we are in having players of all Factions in it. I doubt there is a single Guild in this game that has nothing but 500 Players with 8 of the same Faction characters per account in it.

I for example have 2 of each Class, and 3 of each Faction (2 for the 3rd Faction) so that I can experience all content from each point of view. Yes I know Veteran does this but it's still a different feel when you're there at VR1 versus levels 3-14.

UrQuan · January 2015

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Sorry but I disagree with this. The lore already had it's spine broke with any race in any alliance we really don't need pay to swap.

Yeah, because we all know that every single Argonian thinks that allying with the Dunmer is a great idea, and not a single Argonian lives in any of the Aldmeri Dominion or Daggerfall Covenant lands, and even if they did surely they would never potentially want to protect and fight for the lands where they live, and where their friends and neighbors live. The same goes for every other race too. Oh, and naturally on escaping from Coldharbour to be dropped in a completely random spot on Nirn it's inconceivable that the completely random spot where you end up could possibly be anywhere other than your homeland.

Yeah, it's totally lore-breaking to allow any race in any alliance

TheShadowScout · January 2015

Most of the naysayers I see go for the "content done" argument, which would be neatly covered by the "only after silver&gold" idea.

The "lore" argument is broken by the game itself anyhow - there are non-fraction people all over your fractions. Though with some there is some dialouge that has them being tired of being accused of spying .

I like the idea of "traitor" players giving extra rewards if killed by one of their former fraction in PvP!

Also, there could be yet another disadvantage... "traitors" may be mistrusted by the fraction they go to, and get paid less when they sell and charged more when they buy in stores... (something actually common in medieval times as far as I know, people the shopkeepers didn't like got to feel that in the prices...) Even the justice system could discriminate against them! (on the other hand, all those things would apply to preorder-free-race players choosing cross-fraction races to play as well, which is doesn't, now...)

In the end, it is an idea. Many won't see the need. some will want it desperately, many more won't care either way, some will hate the very thought. The makers of the game will hopefulyl think about it, and decide one way or another. I for one am good with either.

UrQuan · January 2015

TheShadowScout wrote: »

The "lore" argument is broken by the game itself anyhow - there are non-fraction people all over your fractions.

Yup, and that's how it's been in previous TES games too. There are always representatives of non-native races in every province. With the possible exception of Arena, I don't think there's ever been a TES game where each province didn't have at least some representatives of each of the 10 playable races living there. Anyone who wants to say it's lore-breaking has no clue what they're talking about.

Zhoyzu · January 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

My knee-jerk reaction is to say "no, re-roll.". And I did say that earlier.

I think people asking for a "one-time change" is kind of interesting. Whatever rationalization you can come up with wanting to change once can be used for wanting to change twice, thrice, or any number of times.

That being said... Having a deserter or traitor option would be interesting option for ESO... being that there is a faction war. Players could be given additional awards for killing players that deserted their faction. I always liked Diablo's "ear" trophy... that would be cool to be able to collect the ears of traitors as trophies.

I think there's a larger idea here that could add another level of depth to the faction war...

true but ive got 5 characters on EP and 1 on AD and 3 EP limited guilds. two are for PvP. i wouldnt forsake a friend ship so i can flip flop about. i just want my AD sorc on EP. Its very limiting having a crafter on a different alliance.