Sorcerer - is Zenimax killing the class on purpose? [PVE]

Darkonflare15 · January 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

@ZOS please just remove summoning from sorcs already and give us an ice/fire skill line or something.

I even suggest keeping summoning as a dark brotherhood skill line instead for when that get released. It makes way more sense there as part of the zombies, skeletons, daedra, aka necromancy etc.

Having a summoning skill line would not work for Dark Brotherhood since the Dark Brotherhood are assassin guild meaning it would be best to have skills dedicated to weapon or magic base assassination skills.

Khivas_Carrick · January 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I am almost 110% positive that you guys are over exaggerating the perceived issue here. Sorcs perform a little under par but FAR from terrible or as bad as you are all making it out to be.

And hey man, Templars have gotten the short straw for awhile now, and in trade off for an increase to our caster DPS we're losing out on a rather useful tank skill, so it's a bit of an even trade there.

Just relax my sorcerer friends, you'll all be fine.

I think the problem most sorcerer players encounter is that they rolled the class as a magic wielding dps character. The fact that nightblades and dragonknights both outperform them in that regard since release of the game (by a large margin one might add) is what offends most people (edit: i guess the class just does not live up to its name).

I don´t think most players who rolled the templar did that with the thought of being a dps but either being something like a paladin (tank heal hybrid?) or a full healer.
Templars are good tanks and the best healers in the game. Sorcerers are third in terms of magica dps and only able to achieve that by using a skill that is not even class specific. I don´t think you can compare both classes in that regard.

Actually a lot of Templars did exactly that in mind, rolling one with the idea of a paladin (holy damage dealer) in mind, wanting to go pewpew lazerz at everything while wielding a large weapon or as a sun mage.

Kinda didn't live up to the name there either

Funny, Night blades were suppose to be sneaking characters that use magic for assassination or sneaking but most people wanted to play using stamina builds but were not successful because of the lack stamina skills in the class and the abilities not synergize with weapon builds.

Since the class abilities were magic base and most of the weapon skills were stamina base. You either had to make full on magic base or hybrid to be somewhat successful. This was going on while the class stealth skill keeps switching on and off. Works sometimes and then never work.

Nightblades only got better using stamina when they raise the softcaps, gave better gear bonus, improve medium armor and weapon skills; however their stealth skill still does not work right so they have started using other builds to be useful. With softcaps being remove and the champion system adding passives that will increase dps in broad ways. I serious doubt people would be complaining about sorcerers being least powerful class.

So at least Sorcerers were useful at least once. I remember plenty of people talking about how the Dks and Sorcerers were the easy classes and every person who was fed up being a Nightblade reroll to become one, while Templars complain about no magic resource regeneration. Also at least you have a better chance for you skills to be better improve by update 6. I serious doubt Dark cloak will ever by fixed because how ZOS does not want the skill to be god mode even though reflective scales been like that for a long time. So they are trying to make the skill balance but it still does not work right. Since every class has their short comings now. So I think is the perfect time to revamp skills hence update 6.

Thanks, I think. My quote is in there so I'm assuming you're in support of me here?

Darkonflare15 · January 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

@ZOS please just remove summoning from sorcs already and give us an ice/fire skill line or something.

I even suggest keeping summoning as a dark brotherhood skill line instead for when that get released. It makes way more sense there as part of the zombies, skeletons, daedra, aka necromancy etc.

Shunravi wrote: »

They are not likely to change the class to what you want it to be simply because you misunderstood what the class was about.

Misunderstood? right...cause every other sorc here misunderstood as well. It's more like what @ZOS intended the skill lines to be NOONE uses, because why?

Because anyone who uses those sorc skills can't even come close to competing in the role (damage) that sorc is now limited too. Your pointed remark is lost in translation here considering most sorcs have the same issue. If enough of us agree here it's not a misunderstanding, but indeed, bad design.

Shunravi wrote: »

[They have their own plans for the class.

Obviously...

Shunravi wrote: »

[And we have not as of yet seen the full changes planned for 1.6. There may be some other way sorcs will be better.

Don't hold your breath...last Live episode I remember them say "we're happy with sorcs right now, pets are currently top dps in tests, we need to dial that back".....wtf?!

You know must builds get most of their dps from a conjunction of different skills not just their class skills because if class skills were suppose to carry a whole build then there would be no point and having other skills.

Cuyler · January 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

@ZOS please just remove summoning from sorcs already and give us an ice/fire skill line or something.

I even suggest keeping summoning as a dark brotherhood skill line instead for when that get released. It makes way more sense there as part of the zombies, skeletons, daedra, aka necromancy etc.

Having a summoning skill line would not work for Dark Brotherhood since the Dark Brotherhood are assassin guild meaning it would be best to have skills dedicated weapon or magic base assassination skills.

Ok Worm Cult then....My point? Get it out of Sorcs skill lines.

bosmern_ESO · January 2015

I know plenty of sorcs who get over 1.2k dps single target, and they are a lot better then people playing other classes. People complained that the Sorc pets are useless and now they are getting a buff, why is that bad?

Cuyler · January 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

@ZOS please just remove summoning from sorcs already and give us an ice/fire skill line or something.

I even suggest keeping summoning as a dark brotherhood skill line instead for when that get released. It makes way more sense there as part of the zombies, skeletons, daedra, aka necromancy etc.

Shunravi wrote: »

They are not likely to change the class to what you want it to be simply because you misunderstood what the class was about.

Misunderstood? right...cause every other sorc here misunderstood as well. It's more like what @ZOS intended the skill lines to be NOONE uses, because why?

Because anyone who uses those sorc skills can't even come close to competing in the role (damage) that sorc is now limited too. Your pointed remark is lost in translation here considering most sorcs have the same issue. If enough of us agree here it's not a misunderstanding, but indeed, bad design.

Shunravi wrote: »

[They have their own plans for the class.

Obviously...

Shunravi wrote: »

[And we have not as of yet seen the full changes planned for 1.6. There may be some other way sorcs will be better.

Don't hold your breath...last Live episode I remember them say "we're happy with sorcs right now, pets are currently top dps in tests, we need to dial that back".....wtf?!

You know must builds get most of their dps from a conjunction of different skills not just their class skills because if class skills were suppose to carry a whole build then there would be no point and having other skills.

really?! no I didn't realize

Edit: It's obviously a synergy of passives too along with a weapon line or two. And guess what?

Sorcs don't got it.

Darkonflare15 · January 2015

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I am almost 110% positive that you guys are over exaggerating the perceived issue here. Sorcs perform a little under par but FAR from terrible or as bad as you are all making it out to be.

And hey man, Templars have gotten the short straw for awhile now, and in trade off for an increase to our caster DPS we're losing out on a rather useful tank skill, so it's a bit of an even trade there.

Just relax my sorcerer friends, you'll all be fine.

I think the problem most sorcerer players encounter is that they rolled the class as a magic wielding dps character. The fact that nightblades and dragonknights both outperform them in that regard since release of the game (by a large margin one might add) is what offends most people (edit: i guess the class just does not live up to its name).

I don´t think most players who rolled the templar did that with the thought of being a dps but either being something like a paladin (tank heal hybrid?) or a full healer.
Templars are good tanks and the best healers in the game. Sorcerers are third in terms of magica dps and only able to achieve that by using a skill that is not even class specific. I don´t think you can compare both classes in that regard.

Actually a lot of Templars did exactly that in mind, rolling one with the idea of a paladin (holy damage dealer) in mind, wanting to go pewpew lazerz at everything while wielding a large weapon or as a sun mage.

Kinda didn't live up to the name there either

Funny, Night blades were suppose to be sneaking characters that use magic for assassination or sneaking but most people wanted to play using stamina builds but were not successful because of the lack stamina skills in the class and the abilities not synergize with weapon builds.

Since the class abilities were magic base and most of the weapon skills were stamina base. You either had to make full on magic base or hybrid to be somewhat successful. This was going on while the class stealth skill keeps switching on and off. Works sometimes and then never work.

Nightblades only got better using stamina when they raise the softcaps, gave better gear bonus, improve medium armor and weapon skills; however their stealth skill still does not work right so they have started using other builds to be useful. With softcaps being remove and the champion system adding passives that will increase dps in broad ways. I serious doubt people would be complaining about sorcerers being least powerful class.

So at least Sorcerers were useful at least once. I remember plenty of people talking about how the Dks and Sorcerers were the easy classes and every person who was fed up being a Nightblade reroll to become one, while Templars complain about no magic resource regeneration. Also at least you have a better chance for you skills to be better improve by update 6. I serious doubt Dark cloak will ever by fixed because how ZOS does not want the skill to be god mode even though reflective scales been like that for a long time. So they are trying to make the skill balance but it still does not work right. Since every class has their short comings now. So I think is the perfect time to revamp skills hence update 6.

Thanks, I think. My quote is in there so I'm assuming you're in support of me here?

Yeah, I agree. Plenty of different classes have had problems since launch. The only class that has stood for a long time is DK but that only because they play one way and that is being a tank. Plus they had to deal with a lot of nerfs which most was too overpower but it still sucks to lose power. Once ZOS diversify the game more I think there would be more successful ways to play each class.

Cuyler · January 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I am almost 110% positive that you guys are over exaggerating the perceived issue here. Sorcs perform a little under par but FAR from terrible or as bad as you are all making it out to be.

And hey man, Templars have gotten the short straw for awhile now, and in trade off for an increase to our caster DPS we're losing out on a rather useful tank skill, so it's a bit of an even trade there.

Just relax my sorcerer friends, you'll all be fine.

I think the problem most sorcerer players encounter is that they rolled the class as a magic wielding dps character. The fact that nightblades and dragonknights both outperform them in that regard since release of the game (by a large margin one might add) is what offends most people (edit: i guess the class just does not live up to its name).

I don´t think most players who rolled the templar did that with the thought of being a dps but either being something like a paladin (tank heal hybrid?) or a full healer.
Templars are good tanks and the best healers in the game. Sorcerers are third in terms of magica dps and only able to achieve that by using a skill that is not even class specific. I don´t think you can compare both classes in that regard.

Actually a lot of Templars did exactly that in mind, rolling one with the idea of a paladin (holy damage dealer) in mind, wanting to go pewpew lazerz at everything while wielding a large weapon or as a sun mage.

Kinda didn't live up to the name there either

Funny, Night blades were suppose to be sneaking characters that use magic for assassination or sneaking but most people wanted to play using stamina builds but were not successful because of the lack stamina skills in the class and the abilities not synergize with weapon builds.

Since the class abilities were magic base and most of the weapon skills were stamina base. You either had to make full on magic base or hybrid to be somewhat successful. This was going on while the class stealth skill keeps switching on and off. Works sometimes and then never work.

Nightblades only got better using stamina when they raise the softcaps, gave better gear bonus, improve medium armor and weapon skills; however their stealth skill still does not work right so they have started using other builds to be useful. With softcaps being remove and the champion system adding passives that will increase dps in broad ways. I serious doubt people would be complaining about sorcerers being least powerful class.

So at least Sorcerers were useful at least once. I remember plenty of people talking about how the Dks and Sorcerers were the easy classes and every person who was fed up being a Nightblade reroll to become one, while Templars complain about no magic resource regeneration. Also at least you have a better chance for you skills to be better improve by update 6. I serious doubt Dark cloak will ever by fixed because how ZOS does not want the skill to be god mode even though reflective scales been like that for a long time. So they are trying to make the skill balance but it still does not work right. Since every class has their short comings now. So I think is the perfect time to revamp skills hence update 6.

Thanks, I think. My quote is in there so I'm assuming you're in support of me here?

Yeah, I agree. Plenty of different classes have had problems since launch. The only class that has stood for a long time is DK but that only because they play one way and that is being a tank. Plus they had to deal with a lot of nerfs which most was too overpower but it still sucks to lose power. Once ZOS diversify the game more I think there would be more successful ways to play each class.

A DK crushing shock damage build (or NB for that matter) compared to a sorc crushing shock damage build is one of the primary reasons why most sorcs are feeling a little left out atm.

So, no, DKs definitely don't only play as tanks.

XEVENEX · January 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

The only class that has stood for a long time is DK but that only because they play one way and that is being a tank. Plus they had to deal with a lot of nerfs which most was too overpower but it still sucks to lose power.

No it doesnt. When streak got nerfed to hell I was happy. I don't want to win fights because broken game mechanics are stacked in my favor. Where is the fun or competitive spirit in that?

Darkonflare15 · January 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I am almost 110% positive that you guys are over exaggerating the perceived issue here. Sorcs perform a little under par but FAR from terrible or as bad as you are all making it out to be.

And hey man, Templars have gotten the short straw for awhile now, and in trade off for an increase to our caster DPS we're losing out on a rather useful tank skill, so it's a bit of an even trade there.

Just relax my sorcerer friends, you'll all be fine.

I think the problem most sorcerer players encounter is that they rolled the class as a magic wielding dps character. The fact that nightblades and dragonknights both outperform them in that regard since release of the game (by a large margin one might add) is what offends most people (edit: i guess the class just does not live up to its name).

I don´t think most players who rolled the templar did that with the thought of being a dps but either being something like a paladin (tank heal hybrid?) or a full healer.
Templars are good tanks and the best healers in the game. Sorcerers are third in terms of magica dps and only able to achieve that by using a skill that is not even class specific. I don´t think you can compare both classes in that regard.

Actually a lot of Templars did exactly that in mind, rolling one with the idea of a paladin (holy damage dealer) in mind, wanting to go pewpew lazerz at everything while wielding a large weapon or as a sun mage.

Kinda didn't live up to the name there either

Funny, Night blades were suppose to be sneaking characters that use magic for assassination or sneaking but most people wanted to play using stamina builds but were not successful because of the lack stamina skills in the class and the abilities not synergize with weapon builds.

Since the class abilities were magic base and most of the weapon skills were stamina base. You either had to make full on magic base or hybrid to be somewhat successful. This was going on while the class stealth skill keeps switching on and off. Works sometimes and then never work.

Nightblades only got better using stamina when they raise the softcaps, gave better gear bonus, improve medium armor and weapon skills; however their stealth skill still does not work right so they have started using other builds to be useful. With softcaps being remove and the champion system adding passives that will increase dps in broad ways. I serious doubt people would be complaining about sorcerers being least powerful class.

So at least Sorcerers were useful at least once. I remember plenty of people talking about how the Dks and Sorcerers were the easy classes and every person who was fed up being a Nightblade reroll to become one, while Templars complain about no magic resource regeneration. Also at least you have a better chance for you skills to be better improve by update 6. I serious doubt Dark cloak will ever by fixed because how ZOS does not want the skill to be god mode even though reflective scales been like that for a long time. So they are trying to make the skill balance but it still does not work right. Since every class has their short comings now. So I think is the perfect time to revamp skills hence update 6.

Thanks, I think. My quote is in there so I'm assuming you're in support of me here?

Yeah, I agree. Plenty of different classes have had problems since launch. The only class that has stood for a long time is DK but that only because they play one way and that is being a tank. Plus they had to deal with a lot of nerfs which most was too overpower but it still sucks to lose power. Once ZOS diversify the game more I think there would be more successful ways to play each class.

A DK crushing shock damage build (or NB for that matter) compared to a sorc crushing shock damage build is one of the primary reasons why most sorcs are feeling a little left out atm.

So, no, DKs definitely don't only play as tanks.

There plenty of sorcs doing crushing shock damage builds better than other classes.
Give me multiple reasons why not?

Magdalina · January 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I am almost 110% positive that you guys are over exaggerating the perceived issue here. Sorcs perform a little under par but FAR from terrible or as bad as you are all making it out to be.

And hey man, Templars have gotten the short straw for awhile now, and in trade off for an increase to our caster DPS we're losing out on a rather useful tank skill, so it's a bit of an even trade there.

Just relax my sorcerer friends, you'll all be fine.

I think the problem most sorcerer players encounter is that they rolled the class as a magic wielding dps character. The fact that nightblades and dragonknights both outperform them in that regard since release of the game (by a large margin one might add) is what offends most people (edit: i guess the class just does not live up to its name).

I don´t think most players who rolled the templar did that with the thought of being a dps but either being something like a paladin (tank heal hybrid?) or a full healer.
Templars are good tanks and the best healers in the game. Sorcerers are third in terms of magica dps and only able to achieve that by using a skill that is not even class specific. I don´t think you can compare both classes in that regard.

Actually a lot of Templars did exactly that in mind, rolling one with the idea of a paladin (holy damage dealer) in mind, wanting to go pewpew lazerz at everything while wielding a large weapon or as a sun mage.

Kinda didn't live up to the name there either

Funny, Night blades were suppose to be sneaking characters that use magic for assassination or sneaking but most people wanted to play using stamina builds but were not successful because of the lack stamina skills in the class and the abilities not synergize with weapon builds.

Since the class abilities were magic base and most of the weapon skills were stamina base. You either had to make full on magic base or hybrid to be somewhat successful. This was going on while the class stealth skill keeps switching on and off. Works sometimes and then never work.

Nightblades only got better using stamina when they raise the softcaps, gave better gear bonus, improve medium armor and weapon skills; however their stealth skill still does not work right so they have started using other builds to be useful. With softcaps being remove and the champion system adding passives that will increase dps in broad ways. I serious doubt people would be complaining about sorcerers being least powerful class.

So at least Sorcerers were useful at least once. I remember plenty of people talking about how the Dks and Sorcerers were the easy classes and every person who was fed up being a Nightblade reroll to become one, while Templars complain about no magic resource regeneration. Also at least you have a better chance for you skills to be better improve by update 6. I serious doubt Dark cloak will ever by fixed because how ZOS does not want the skill to be god mode even though reflective scales been like that for a long time. So they are trying to make the skill balance but it still does not work right. Since every class has their short comings now. So I think is the perfect time to revamp skills hence update 6.

Thanks, I think. My quote is in there so I'm assuming you're in support of me here?

Yeah, I agree. Plenty of different classes have had problems since launch. The only class that has stood for a long time is DK but that only because they play one way and that is being a tank. Plus they had to deal with a lot of nerfs which most was too overpower but it still sucks to lose power. Once ZOS diversify the game more I think there would be more successful ways to play each class.

A DK crushing shock damage build (or NB for that matter) compared to a sorc crushing shock damage build is one of the primary reasons why most sorcs are feeling a little left out atm.

So, no, DKs definitely don't only play as tanks.

There plenty of sorcs doing crushing shock damage builds better than other classes.
Give me multiple reasons why not?

Because, say, DKs have actual useful class abilities they can weave in between Crushing shock?

Cuyler · January 2015

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Khivas_Carrick wrote: »

I am almost 110% positive that you guys are over exaggerating the perceived issue here. Sorcs perform a little under par but FAR from terrible or as bad as you are all making it out to be.

And hey man, Templars have gotten the short straw for awhile now, and in trade off for an increase to our caster DPS we're losing out on a rather useful tank skill, so it's a bit of an even trade there.

Just relax my sorcerer friends, you'll all be fine.

I think the problem most sorcerer players encounter is that they rolled the class as a magic wielding dps character. The fact that nightblades and dragonknights both outperform them in that regard since release of the game (by a large margin one might add) is what offends most people (edit: i guess the class just does not live up to its name).

I don´t think most players who rolled the templar did that with the thought of being a dps but either being something like a paladin (tank heal hybrid?) or a full healer.
Templars are good tanks and the best healers in the game. Sorcerers are third in terms of magica dps and only able to achieve that by using a skill that is not even class specific. I don´t think you can compare both classes in that regard.

Actually a lot of Templars did exactly that in mind, rolling one with the idea of a paladin (holy damage dealer) in mind, wanting to go pewpew lazerz at everything while wielding a large weapon or as a sun mage.

Kinda didn't live up to the name there either

Funny, Night blades were suppose to be sneaking characters that use magic for assassination or sneaking but most people wanted to play using stamina builds but were not successful because of the lack stamina skills in the class and the abilities not synergize with weapon builds.

Since the class abilities were magic base and most of the weapon skills were stamina base. You either had to make full on magic base or hybrid to be somewhat successful. This was going on while the class stealth skill keeps switching on and off. Works sometimes and then never work.

Nightblades only got better using stamina when they raise the softcaps, gave better gear bonus, improve medium armor and weapon skills; however their stealth skill still does not work right so they have started using other builds to be useful. With softcaps being remove and the champion system adding passives that will increase dps in broad ways. I serious doubt people would be complaining about sorcerers being least powerful class.

So at least Sorcerers were useful at least once. I remember plenty of people talking about how the Dks and Sorcerers were the easy classes and every person who was fed up being a Nightblade reroll to become one, while Templars complain about no magic resource regeneration. Also at least you have a better chance for you skills to be better improve by update 6. I serious doubt Dark cloak will ever by fixed because how ZOS does not want the skill to be god mode even though reflective scales been like that for a long time. So they are trying to make the skill balance but it still does not work right. Since every class has their short comings now. So I think is the perfect time to revamp skills hence update 6.

Thanks, I think. My quote is in there so I'm assuming you're in support of me here?

Yeah, I agree. Plenty of different classes have had problems since launch. The only class that has stood for a long time is DK but that only because they play one way and that is being a tank. Plus they had to deal with a lot of nerfs which most was too overpower but it still sucks to lose power. Once ZOS diversify the game more I think there would be more successful ways to play each class.

A DK crushing shock damage build (or NB for that matter) compared to a sorc crushing shock damage build is one of the primary reasons why most sorcs are feeling a little left out atm.

So, no, DKs definitely don't only play as tanks.

There plenty of sorcs doing crushing shock damage builds better than other classes.
Give me multiple reasons why not?

You're kidding right? we're not talking about Templars here.

XEVENEX · January 2015

Crushing shock is the ONLY instant cast magika based light attack weavable single target ability we have access to. Go ahaid, check our skill trees. It's the ONLY one.

It's the ONLY DPS build we have and it sucks. If you say pets I'll cut you.

Gorthax · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Nijjion wrote: »

Really too early to say about anything due to 1.6 with skills changing and champ levels.

With Ult nerf DKs will prob be down there with you as can't stack 2 banners any more.

That's unless there's some other good stuff coming, as I said too early to say. Wait for 1.6 then lets wait to see what happens. Though will probably take weeks maybe months for community to figure stuff out.

Edit

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

[*] Standard cost is going up

Where did you read this?.... and why? Skill has already been nerfed twice and countered so easily

I find it ironic in the same post you say "Let's wait," and then afterward question why Standard has been changed.

I think that sums up all the posts telling sorcs to be patient and wait.

*slow clap* GREATEST! THING! EVER!

Valencer · January 2015

Aeratus wrote: »

The above post by Xevenex is about PVP, rather than PVE. There hasn't been any nerfs to sorcs specifically.

...

So I think the reason for the recent sorc complaint threads is due to the rise of stamina dps, which allows templars to easily exceed the dps of magicka sorcs. This makes sense, because most of the sorcs that are complaining now are the magicka ones.

That's what it looks like to me too. I can't really find any serious nerfs to sorcerer-specific damage skills. Seems more like the changing metagame has hurt the sorcerers with a full-on magicka build (which seems like a very common build among sorcerers). That may be good or bad, but I think claiming ZOS is killing the sorcerers is a bit much.

I've heard some good stuff about stamina DPS sorcerers. Anyone care to give some insights on that?

Exstazik · January 2015

Valencer wrote: »

Aeratus wrote: »

The above post by Xevenex is about PVP, rather than PVE. There hasn't been any nerfs to sorcs specifically.

...

So I think the reason for the recent sorc complaint threads is due to the rise of stamina dps, which allows templars to easily exceed the dps of magicka sorcs. This makes sense, because most of the sorcs that are complaining now are the magicka ones.

That's what it looks like to me too. I can't really find any serious nerfs to sorcerer-specific damage skills. Seems more like the changing metagame has hurt the sorcerers with a full-on magicka build (which seems like a very common build among sorcerers). That may be good or bad, but I think claiming ZOS is killing the sorcerers is a bit much.

I've heard some good stuff about stamina DPS sorcerers. Anyone care to give some insights on that?

Sorc dps with bow/dual wield around 1200 with pots.
Sorc mage dps with pots+ult around 1100
Sorc DPS after they up pets+fix CF....hmm.....(LA+CS+CF proc+1 hit of each pet)x2 every ~3 sec.....hmmm...i think we will see "NERF OP SORC"

XEVENEX · January 2015

Valencer wrote: »

I can't really find any serious nerfs to sorcerer-specific damage skills.

That's because we don't have any, bro. Have you seen our skill tree? We rely on weapon trees and use our class skills for utility.

EJRose83 · January 2015

The title of this thread cracked me up. I'm sure there is an internal conspiracy at ZOS to sabotage the sorcerer class :P

Artemiisia · January 2015

Homm wrote: »

XEVENEX wrote: »

This is freakin' depressing.

Nothing to add. This is NOT the sorc balancing we want. Sorc needs a viable dps build without using pets - want to use them? Sure, but don't force anybody.

this would be my worst nightmare as a sorcerer also, if I need to maintain high single target dps with pets, I dont think ill enjoy sorcerers gamestyle anymore

I do feel that the class line needs a change for sure, just not to maximize the dps of the class.

for me personally I would like it both ways yeah im greedy

great single target dps with or without pets

Exstazik · January 2015

SORC in 1.6

RinaldoGandolphi · January 2015

Sorcs are probably dead in the water. Im hoping Pets will be ridiculously OP (They will have to be in order to even be usable), but im not holding my breath considering ZOS said they are already nerfing them before they even get to PTS.

They also nerfed Negate, Absorption Field, instead of healing you for the effects it dispels inside the Bubble, now it gives you "Regeneration"..

pft..the skill will be useless now....I wouldn't even bother morphing Negate...Suppression Field stinks, even with the removal of caps it will still stink, and now the only other morph option that was any good at all, nerfed....ITS NOT A BUFF NEGATE WAS NERFED...Absorption Field no longer heals, combat regeneration in this game is a joke, so Absorption Field will be useless in 1.6. You will not regenerate enough resources for Absorption Field to even matter, So its useless, better off sticking with plain jane Negate, if you decide to use the skill at all.

I like how they tried to sell us that "Major Regeneration" is better then getting flat out healed for the effects you dispel.

The raised softcaps are not going to make that much of a difference for Sorcs, even if they do invest everything in Magic, when most of your class skills for the lack of a better term suck, its not going to matter, and you gotta have health unless you want to die...there is a reason Sorcs are pigeonholed into Crushing Shock...because our class damage skills are outright horrid.

Now that Negate got a major swing of the nerf bat, its looking more and more like Sorcs will just be the same color of what i usually flush down my toilet in the morning after a cup of coffee.

Pets will have to be insanely good to make up for this along with the changes to Surge, or you might as well just pack up shop with your Sorc and forget he/she exists. Its why im working on an ALT, because im tired of playing at a disadvantage all the time, sure its made me a better player, absolutely, but it gets old.

Exstazik · January 2015

woodsro wrote: »

Pets will have to be insanely good to make up for this along with the changes to Surge, or you might as well just pack up shop with your Sorc and forget he/she exists. Its why im working on an ALT, because im tired of playing at a disadvantage all the time, sure its made me a better player, absolutely, but it gets old.

Already up NB and DK as Alt characters.So if after 1.6 Sorc will be "negate man" then i will sell my negate for runs

1 negate=10k from each party member

facemace · January 2015

XEVENEX wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

I can't really find any serious nerfs to sorcerer-specific damage skills.

That's because we don't have any, bro. Have you seen our skill tree? We rely on weapon trees and use our class skills for utility.

This. They have a dot that only does dmg on the last tick, a lighting attack that only does damage when the opponent has already lost, a small ground effect AOE dot that only does damage if the enemy forgets to move for several seconds, and that is about it.

Exstazik · January 2015

ZOS need buff Matriarch Attack Compared to Lethal Arrow

Nightreaver · January 2015

Valencer wrote: »

Out of curiosity, which Sorcerer skills have been nerfed since launch? All I can think of is Bolt Escape and the Storm Atronach's hidden ability to taunt (removed).

First, how are the number of nerfs relevant if the only issue is balance? If one person has 100 dollars and loses 10 while another person has 40 dollars but only loses 2 is the 2nd person better off because he lost less? I could care less of how many nerfs one class has vs. another. My only interest is if the end result is that all classes are balanced.

Second, the Atronach nerf is a perfect example of how they can completely botch skills. Instead of making one morph without taunt and another the exact same with morph as many Sorcerers asked, they gave us one without taunt and left us with an alternative morph that is completely worthless. And now it appears the same will be happening with Surge, giving Stamina builds the option to choose both Damage + Healing while Magicka builds will need to choose one or the other.

themizario wrote: »

Thread should be closed. @ZOS_AlanG
I think Sorc's wanting wings nerfed even more then the incoming nerf want to spam crystal frag and nothing else. Literally.

You might want to take the time to actually read the posts here before responding.
1) I don't want DKs or anyone else nerfed, I just want to be on the same level.
2) No, Sorcerers aren't looking to spam CF, they're looking to gain useful class abilities that would allow them to compete with other classes. Right now they have one and it is only an execute ability that requires targets to be lower in health than other class execute abilities.

"Shunravi wrote: »

They are not likely to change the class to what you want it to be simply because you misunderstood what the class was about.

From the in game description.
Sorcerers can use conjuration and destruction spells to hurl lightning bolts and create shock fields, wield dark magic to snare and stun, and summon Daedric combat followers from Oblivion to assist them.
Sounds to me like the class is about Destruction spells and wielding Dark Magic....oh and summoning followers to assist them. I take that to mean that the emphasis is on casting destruction spells with some assistance being provided by a follower. Not the follower being the focus of our talent.

Shunravi wrote: »

So then, why did you choose the pet class?

The description implies that the class is all about destruction, not healing, not tanking, not sneaking around. For anyone looking to play a more traditional type of offensive spell caster this description come much closer to meeting those expectations than the description of any of the other class.

What part of the class description makes you think the emphasis is on pets? Are you claiming that our class defining ability is that we have followers? But let's say that is their intent, to make followers the Sorcerer class defining ability. Then shouldn't they be useful for something more than just soloing? And considering they just nerfed follower healing and their changes to Atronach and Surge, I'm not real optimistic about their idea of buffing them.

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

You know must builds get most of their dps from a conjunction of different skills not just their class skills because if class skills were suppose to carry a whole build then there would be no point and having other skills.

So by conjunction you mean one class ability that is only useful on targets under 20% health? Hate to sound greedy but for a class whose description implies it is all about destruction I was kinda hoping for more than just one. And shouldn't *other* skills be intended to work with in conjunction with class abilities? Because in the current state, Sorcerers are pretty much more dependent on those *other* skills than their own class skills.

Exstazik wrote: »

Sorc dps with bow/dual wield around 1200 with pots.
Sorc mage dps with pots+ult around 1100
Sorc DPS after they up pets+fix CF....hmm.....(LA+CS+CF proc+1 hit of each pet)x2 every ~3 sec.....hmmm...i think we will see "NERF OP SORC"

What I think we'll see is a number of changes made to all classes resulting people QQing about any nerfs done to their own class while ignoring any buffs to their own class and simultaneously QQing about and buffs to any other class while ignoring any nerfs to that class. And all to be done before any actual comparison between classes can actually be made.

Digiman · January 2015

EJRose83 wrote: »

The title of this thread cracked me up. I'm sure there is an internal conspiracy at ZOS to sabotage the sorcerer class :P

You would be more surprised if it wasn't. Most times when doing class builds lead designers are given a list of things to work on, things get bumped up and others bumped down.

Buffing Sorcerers wasn't on the list because as ZoS stated they were happy at where they were at. The problem was not paying attention to the other classes.

Since Sorcerers weren't really a core class needed for trials they were left sundered while the devs focused on fixing the huge blatant mistakes they left since beta. There were other skill lines to help get them work, but the core was almost broken if not for a few utility abilities. Thank god for negate.

Then came new content then problems with veteren rank and so on. Now 1.6 is supposedly meant to fix all of that but you can't blame a class that had been left in rain while others were unchecked to still feel better about the burn.

Hell this type of thing happened to 2 different classes from 2 different MMOs I played that were similar to sorcerers in ESO.

I am just saying given ZoS track record do really blame players about not being concerned?

Originally Sorcerers were pretty powerful and needed to be brought in line. They got two caps in the knee and remain behind Nightblades. You telling me when hearing they are changing core mechanics you aren't worried with that precedent? Cause I am.

Valencer · January 2015

Nightreaver wrote: »

First, how are the number of nerfs relevant if the only issue is balance? If one person has 100 dollars and loses 10 while another person has 40 dollars but only loses 2 is the 2nd person better off because he lost less? I could care less of how many nerfs one class has vs. another. My only interest is if the end result is that all classes are balanced.

The number of nerfs is relevant when the OP includes a claim about ZOS destroying the class in question.

I've been here since launch and I still remember Dragonknight and Sorcerer being considered the top dogs for the first few months. The situation has clearly changed for the Sorcerer class and I was curious why. Nothing more, nothing less.

daemonios · January 2015

Valencer wrote: »

Nightreaver wrote: »

First, how are the number of nerfs relevant if the only issue is balance? If one person has 100 dollars and loses 10 while another person has 40 dollars but only loses 2 is the 2nd person better off because he lost less? I could care less of how many nerfs one class has vs. another. My only interest is if the end result is that all classes are balanced.

The number of nerfs is relevant when the OP includes a claim about ZOS destroying the class in question.

I've been here since launch and I still remember Dragonknight and Sorcerer being considered the top dogs for the first few months. The situation has clearly changed for the Sorcerer class and I was curious why. Nothing more, nothing less.

We shouldn't be too literal about how people express themselves in the forums. Of course "destroy" is a strong word. But the problem is real - sorcerers face an uphill battle to maintain high enough dps to be of use in end-game content. I don't want other classes nerfed or sorcs to be OP. I just wish sorcs could be able to dps with a magicka build using something other than inner light + surge + crushing shock + light attack, and your whole gear/mundus choices built around maxing that crit. Currently, I know of no way to do it. If that's my failure, I sure would appreciate some tips.

e.chiesa73b16_ESO · January 2015

Seeing as everybody is concerned about dps, I'd like to add that I would really like that my sorc could be regarded as a full time healer.
Now we just can't compete with templars for this role (everything else being equal)

Sorry for my bad english

daemonios · January 2015

e.chiesa73b16_ESO wrote: »

Seeing as everybody is concerned about dps, I'd like to add that I would really like that my sorc could be regarded as a full time healer.
Now we just can't compete with templars for this role (everything else being equal)

Sorry for my bad english

I haven't tried healing full-time as a sorc (don't even have the high-level gear for it), so I can't speak about that. But if templar is the only possible healer for end-game content, that should be tweaked too.

PS: I suspect if sorcs were on par with templars for end-game healers, the templars would throw a fit, since they also don't have such high dps as DK or NB, and can't tank as effectively as a DK. They'd become nova monkeys or something like that, similar to what happens to negate monkeys now.