Well my idea is this..

2 or 3 pvp campaigns (depending on population needs and can be increased) with all the bells and whistles including the imp city when it comes out. Quests in these zones give more exp.

These campaigns would all be 14 days in length and the total points of these campaigns would decide the winning alliance. You can claim one as your home and one as guest. You may not have characters from opposing alliances guest or homed in the same campaign. You may enter your buff campaign at any time.

3 pve "buff" campaigns (one for each faction) with no imp city. Each hour an enemy keep flips alternating from each enemy alliance. These keeps must be taken back or you start losing pve buffs. After one side has all its home keeps you start losing scrolls. No AP or war quests will be offered in these campaigns.

I think this would help pve folks and new folks to learn the basics in keep taking and build some kind of alliance loyalty which right now this game is lacking.

This is just one idea. Anyone have other ideas beside just complaining or claiming things work great as they are?

Domander wrote: »

Azura's is currently a fine example of what would happen if pvp buffs were ever removed from the game. The buffs are currently stuck.

It would be bad. The buffs give a nice incentive for players to go to cyrodiil who might otherwise not care at all.

I don't know how AS NA (I assume) looks like, but of course you go to a campaign where you can take the buffs away from the PvEers if you want them to come to Cyrodiil.
And when someone who only cares for his buffs from PvP and otherwise does not even try it out, does not really try it out at all, that's his own problem and can't be solved luring him on a buff campaign were he learns how it is to be farmed by a handful PvP players.

DDuke wrote: »

How about...

PvP buffs become attached to keep/resource ownership, being granted to the guild that owns a keep/resource.

[...]

I don't want to be a member of the guild caring for those buffs then, losing important objectives for the alliance instead because someone wanted to be mean to my guild .
No, I don't think that would be any better than the current system.

Komma wrote: »

Well my idea is this..

[...]

3 pve "buff" campaigns (one for each faction) with no imp city. Each hour an enemy keep flips alternating from each enemy alliance. These keeps must be taken back or you start losing pve buffs. After one side has all its home keeps you start losing scrolls. No AP or war quests will be offered in these campaigns.

I think this would help pve folks and new folks to learn the basics in keep taking and build some kind of alliance loyalty which right now this game is lacking.

This is just one idea. Anyone have other ideas beside just complaining or claiming things work great as they are?

I have a better idea: remove PvP buffs from PvE.
Are you seriously telling me you want to teach PvEers PvP with making them PvE?
And as a reward they get buffs. Why not just let them choose a PvP campaign and get their buffs, if they need them, in their PvE content?

[Moderator Note: Removed moderated quote]

PvE should stay out of PvP and PvP should stay out of PvE, period.

I don't care if the Trial carebears don't like it, it's not like they won't be able to spam impulse and crushing shock in their Trials anymore without the PvP buffs.

Same with this Undaunted crap that PvPers are basically forced to do now in order to stay competitive with people that have the Undaunted buffs.

Until PvE players EARN the buffs it should never transfer over into PvE land. There is no reason that once a toon is lvl 10 it deserves buffs from Cyrodiil because some faction is hording a server.

Remove the buffs from PvE and make them PvP only and if that simply won't do then only award those in the top 150 the buffs in PvE. There has to be some reason to enter pvp to get the buffs. Even if the AP system currently is a joke.

Domander wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

The only way to fix having buff servers is to remove Guesting, or remove PvP buffs working in PvE

If you do this, you might as well take out 2 of the campaigns because there won't be enough players on them to do anything.

Oh wait, that would fix the "buff" server complaint too.

I guess it wouldn't be the only way, would it.

Have you ever been in a queue for Thornblade for 2 hours? I guess you should shut up then, no offense.

badmojo wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

No, because it actually feels like you're inhabiting a living world when you see a flood of PvE'ers coming into the campaign when a message is thrown on their screen. Removing the buffs will make it just like any other game, servers for this, servers for that. No community interaction between the two.

Oh, I would agree to that if there was just one Cyrodiil. But you can just choose one. If some PvEers would try making Thornblade a buff server that would be "Immersion".
There already ARE servers for this (PvP) and that (buffs for PvE).

Except there's lots of PVP'ing on the so called buff servers. Also, why would any PvE'er home on Thornblade? That would be the dumbest thing they could possibly do. There isn't just one Cyrodiil, so imagining there was, is pointless. We have, what we have. In what we have, I enjoy the buffs carrying over to PvE because of things I've witnessed playing on Chillrend. I'm a firm believer that removing buffs in PvE will only hurt PvP.

badmojo wrote: »

No, because it actually feels like you're inhabiting a living world when you see a flood of PvE'ers coming into the campaign when a message is thrown on their screen. Removing the buffs will make it just like any other game, servers for this, servers for that. No community interaction between the two.

I pointed out the inconsistency of your argument - you say the only thing the removal of PvP buffs in PvE would do is making ESO like every other game: servers for this and servers for that. But that is already the case. This system is being maintained by players, but supported by ZOS.

I'm guessing you're talking about "buff servers" being for PvE'ers, and Thornblade is the be all and end all of PVP greatness? That's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I've posted many times before that the only people who can change this is the players. I've encouraged people multiple times to go to buff servers and shake things up. If people sit on Thorn, they have no business complaining about Buff servers.

Personally, I play on Chillrend a lot, and there's some good small scale PVP going on. Usually there are about 20 EP attacking the same amount of DC. If things die down we go to Thorn or another "buff" server, but more often then not we have to keep our defenses up or Chillrend will quickly turn red.

The problem as I see it when it comes to buff servers is that groups come in with ideas of taking back scrolls or dethroning the Emp, which only ends up triggering a massive influx of PvE players who want to protect their buffs. I'd encourage people to come into a buff server, take your home keeps and non-imperial keeps, then try your best to hold them.

Thornblade is a laggy mess.

But I want to fight people who want to fight me not some guys who think they need to beat me to get those buffs, because PvE is of course undoable without them.

Suggesting people just shouldn't take most of the buffs when coming to a buff server is a joke, it's on ZOS' part to give the PvPers an incentive to take objectives, not to avoid doing so.

When a "massive influx of PvE players" comes to protect "their" buffs form the PvP players who want to do PvP, the PvE crowd is destroying the campaign for the PvPers and the PvPers are killing the fun for those PvEers who think they need them to have fun PvEing.

For clearing a dungeon you don't need the buffs, you may need it for especially fast speed runs. But that is only because the buffs exist at all, reset leaderboard, take PvE buffs out, no problem.
For winning a campaign, you have to take the buffs. No way around.

You cannot remove the pve buffs from AvA.

It is so intrinsinc to an RvR game's design that it would nearly entirely defeat the purpose. This is the same reason why the Imperial City will mostly be a PvE zoone, or why PvP players still have to do PvE for buffs and skill points or rely on crafting for gear and consumables. Partly why we have 3 factions too.
The choice of the orobouros is just so perfect, this is one world and every activity should have meaning in the grand scheme of things.

Also, your assumption that the buffs are the cause of the buff campaigns is plain wrong. There are buff campaigns because there is a lack of recovery mechanics implemented in AvA.
It doesn't help either that the buffs are given freely without requiring to be earned.
Fix those aspects, fix population balance and you'll fix the buff campaigns.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130109/a-possible-solution-to-population-imbalance

ToRelax wrote: »

frosth.darkomenb16_ESO wrote: »

You cannot remove the pve buffs from AvA.

It is so intrinsinc to an RvR game's design that it would nearly entirely defeat the purpose. This is the same reason why the Imperial City will mostly be a PvE zoone, or why PvP players still have to do PvE for buffs and skill points or rely on crafting for gear and consumables. Partly why we have 3 factions too.
The choice of the orobouros is just so perfect, this is one world and every activity should have meaning in the grand scheme of things.

Also, your assumption that the buffs are the cause of the buff campaigns is plain wrong. There are buff campaigns because there is a lack of recovery mechanics implemented in AvA.
It doesn't help either that the buffs are given freely without requiring to be earned.
Fix those aspects, fix population balance and you'll fix the buff campaigns.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/130109/a-possible-solution-to-population-imbalance

It's AvA of ESO, not RvR of DAoC.

If they'd focus on AvA in the development you may be right but that is not the case. This game is very focused on PvE by now.

It was one of the selling points and a big marketing focus during development.
It is also a focus of the game, and it is integrated well with the rest of it, especially if you're a completionist.
It is also a unique selling proposition until Camelot Unchained gets out.

AvA is still RvR and even if they put it on the backburner to deal with all other problems first, it doesn't change what it is and how it works.
The way the Imperial City is worked on is also a proof that AvA is RvR, as it emulates Darkness Falls, even improves upon it.

Finaly, aside arguing on semantics, your comment doesn't change the fact that the buff isn't the cause of the population imbalance. Other design flaws are present in Cyrodill that, even if no buffs existed, there would be a dominating faction per campaign.

This is what needs to be addressed, and this whole PvE buff discusion is just noise distracting from the actual issues.

DeLindsay wrote: »

Apparently even ZoS thinks "Buff servers" are a crutch for PvE, source. In case you cannot find it, the response was from Jessica Folsom yesterday.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »

10. Buff Servers -- Kill buffs outside of the PVP zone. It's time for Buff servers to die the death they deserve.

This is something we've discussed at length and continue to have conversations about. We initially made the buffs as an incentive for PVP, but in the long run, using campaigns as a “buff server” has been more of a crutch than the intended bonus. We've seen your feedback and concerns about this—we'll continue to discuss it internally and see what we can do.

So I guess I'm NOT the only person who thinks Cyro buffs are a crutch for PvE'ers.

Again, the issue aren't the buffs, but the fact the system can be "gamed".

If the campaign were able to balance themselves, there wouldn't be any issues with buff servers. Now, even if you were to remove the buffs from PvE, there would still be population balance issues because it still is better to be on the wining side.

NO. If you want buffs from a PvP function of the game, then you better earn them by being in PvP. Just like PvP players need to do undaunted PvE crap to get certain armor sets for bonuses. Same concept. You want it? Come earn it.

I say no because hopefully this will make factions try harder to keep scrolls, emp and whatnot in the "buff" campaigns and therefore making them competitive. You want buffs for that trial run? Come on in, learn organized PvP and earn them!