Yesterday I was able to whitness, how unreliable Magnus' Gift can be.
I've tested it outside of combat. I was able to bolt escape 8 times by spamming it with seducer. With Magnus, I was able to bolt 9 or 10 times, during my 2 tries. So Magnus always procced 1 or 2 times.

But then I have tested it with conjured ward twice, which I was able to cast 20 times (so 40 times total) with seducer and then, with Magnus it didn't even proc 1 time during 40 casts. So it is really really unreliable.

The most relevant difference between Magnus and Seducer are the secondary bonuses. Seducer gives magicka and double magicka regen, while Magnus gives magicka, magicka regen and spell damage. Pick depending on whether you need more magicka regen or spell damage. (For example there is no Mundus for spell damage, only for spell penetration.)

The procs of the Magnus set will amount to exactly the same reduction as Seducer for large enough n. More serious players might want to go with Seducer as its effect is more predictable.

I can speak out of expierence that Arch-Mage + Seducer + Cyrodiil's Light is pure madness in PVP. I bought the Arch-Mage necklace for 5k, bought 60x Small blue VR12 light armor containers at the pvp vendor which dropped the legs and gloves, got the robe 80k and the belt for 40k. Crafted S&B/Resto and rest of the light armor impenetrable seducer. Bought one ring for 246k AP and one for 45k in the guildstore. Its not cheap (total 170k gold + 630k AP) but it results in a magicka cost reduction of 21%(7xLA)+5%(sorc passive)+8%(arch-mage)+8%(seducer)=42% on my sorc. For example, streak only costs 189 magicka so I can use it to stun enemies during fights or get away whenever I want to.

maysonet_ESO wrote: »

IMO, Warlock > Archmage. If a spell costs 300 magicka, you'd have to cast it 30 times in 1 minute (8% reduced cost from Archmage, 24 magicka savings per cast) to equal the magicka you gain from one proc of Warlock (~720 magicka). I think Seducer + Warlock is the optimal combination (which also happens to be one of the most popular).

Not completely true, I think you're forgetting magicka regeneration in your calculation. Cost reduction effectively increases your max magicka and magicka regeneration. Because cost reduction will make every spell cheaper to cast so the time it takes to regen enough magicka for the next spell decreases. The benefit of 8% cost reduction outweighs the warlock bonus in my experiences.

For example, I have have 2500 magicka and my streak is only 181 magicka. So even when I spam it I can cast it 2500-181=2319 > 2319/(2*181)=7.4 times without magicka regen. When I test it in combat with intervals of 2 sec I can use it 13 times before running out of magicka. If you have the warlock set the proc only gives you 720/362=2 extra streaks ONCE a minute.. Also if you use VR1 warlock rings (which most people do) you get around 670 magicka.

Secuder + warlock might the most popular but I think that is because the Arch-Mage set is expensive and you can easily get a 5 piece warlock set with VR1 rings for under 50k.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

maysonet_ESO wrote: »

IMO, Warlock > Archmage. If a spell costs 300 magicka, you'd have to cast it 30 times in 1 minute (8% reduced cost from Archmage, 24 magicka savings per cast) to equal the magicka you gain from one proc of Warlock (~720 magicka). I think Seducer + Warlock is the optimal combination (which also happens to be one of the most popular).

Not completely true, I think you're forgetting magicka regeneration in your calculation. Cost reduction effectively increases your max magicka and magicka regeneration. Because cost reduction will make every spell cheaper to cast so the time it takes to regen enough magicka for the next spell decreases. The benefit of 8% cost reduction outweighs the warlock bonus in my experiences.

For example, I have have 2500 magicka and my streak is only 181 magicka. So even when I spam it I can cast it 2500-181=2319 > 2319/(2*181)=7.4 times without magicka regen. When I test it in combat with intervals of 2 sec I can use it 13 times before running out of magicka. If you have the warlock set the proc only gives you 720/362=2 extra streaks ONCE a minute.. Also if you use VR1 warlock rings (which most people do) you get around 670 magicka.

Secuder + warlock might the most popular but I think that is because the Arch-Mage set is expensive and you can easily get a 5 piece warlock set with VR1 rings for under 50k.

Not using Archmage it would only make streak cost 8% more (and also you'd be able to cast streak a little earlier due to the lower cost), so there's not a huge difference between using Seducer + Archmage vs. Seducer with no Archmage. But then again Warlock has more magicka regen, so unless your at cap, that's going further increase your magicka available.

I'm not too familiar with how Streak calculates, but it looked like you were comparing someone wearing Warlock without Seducer vs someone wearing Archmage and Seducer. Streak is probably not a good spell to use for this conversation since the cost changes per cast (making it difficult to do comparisons).

In PvE Archmage would probably work out better as the fights are longer, but Warlock gives you a burst of magicka, which in PVP I think is more important. Additionally, neither Archmage nor Warlock have impenetrable, meaning you'll be more susceptible to being crit.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Haha keep using crappig warlock with vr1 rings then, I guess all high ranking pvpers are wrong in this matter and waste 300k on useless gear..

VR5 Syrabane Rings are something to look into. Better overall than two Warlock Rings at VR1. Just don't have a necklace, but you can make a glyph and create your own necklace.

dietlime wrote: »

Sustained hard support healing should use Seducer's. Consistency is important as a hard support, in this sense always guaranteeing X% more output helps a team more than possibly getting a few more casts in. Critically, if a Seducer caster is out of mana he may be able to cast a life-saver one tick sooner depending where his last cast left him. If Magnus bottoms out he has to wait for the full cost.

I'm now using 5 Healer's Habit + 5 Eyes of Mara ( and 1 rando ring w/mana reduct) in my healer build and I think it is working well. 8% extra healing with 12% reduction in resto staff spell costs is a nice synergy in this scenario. I think it's especially good for NB healers as opposed to Templar healers who have their own skill line.

Also I've been using the Atronach mundus and with the divines trait on my 3 healer's habit pieces I'm just a couple (3, I think) points below mana regen softcap and also 70 or so over the mana softcap. If I find I don't need the additional regen as much, I might switch to Ritual or something else.

2 Healer's habit jewelry (necklace & 1 ring) w/mana reduct. 1 rando ring with mana reduct (would like another healer ring when I have more cash). 3 healer light armor pieces with divines trait, 2 Mara medium armor pieces and 2 Mara light armor pieces with impenetrable (for pvp). Run double resto staves both Mara, one with defender trait other with sharpened (defense & offense).

I'm looking forward to trying this out some more and getting an idea of the mana savings but it looks good so far

MADshadowman wrote: »

Magnus is the better choice if you have a decent magicka pool. Sure, Seducer gives you a fix cost reduction, so you can calculate with that. But it's only 8%, so that's not that much.

Seducer

Let's say you have 2400 magicka and use all your magicka, then Seducer saves you 192 Magicka. Does this sound good? Not really.

Who taught you math!?

You not going to use a spell that costs 2400 magicka. But 192 magicka spells add up especially when you factoring in magicka regeneration.

Basically your saying you better at making money spending it at the lottery then saving set amount up for 8 years.