Maintenance for the week of September 22:
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
• NA megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC)
• EU megaservers for maintenance – September 22, 8:00 UTC (4:00AM EDT) - 14:00 UTC (10:00AM EDT)
Welcome to TESO have a nice an beautifull day 8)
-
Ohioastro✭✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »Why are so many people missing this very simple concept?
Cause they don't think it effects them in a negative way at all. Most of them aren't or wont get to end game to be effected by decisions like this.
If 30 CP makes my characters have the same power as they did at VR14 I lose nothing. If I've done all quests and don't like gaining exp in other ways it doesn't matter whether I have 30 CP or 3,000 CP; I'm done with the things that I like to do in the game. People can understand the points involved perfectly well and disagree with them.4 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.
What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).
Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!9 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.
What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).
Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!
There is no precedent, you cant compare it to what WoW did. WoW has never removed vet levels, no game has.
You also don't know what they will do with 1.7, its all utter assumption.
They have said they aren't awarding anymore CP, that is all they have said. For all you know they may let you keep the attribute points, kind of like a founder bonus. You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 50 to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.
The reality is that even if they drop you to 50, with no compensation, you still have lots of benefits over what a new 50 will have. Your time from VR1 to VR14 is not anywhere near as wasted as people claim.
Edited by Guppet on January 5, 2015 10:32PM6 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.
What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).
Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!
There is no precedent, you cant compare it to what WoW did. WoW has never removed vet levels, no game has.
You also don't know what they will do with 1.7, its all utter assumption.
They have said they aren't awarding anymore CP, that is all they have said. For all you know they may let you keep the attribute points, kind of like a founder bonus. You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 50 to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.
The reality is that even if they drop you to 50, with no compensation, you still have lots of benefits over what a new 50 will have. Your time from VR1 to VR14 is not anywhere near as wasted as people claim.
What about 4 weeks after 1.6 launches and that fresh veteran 1 completes all the content I did.. but he gets the exp I didn't get and passes me. That's fair right ? Don't wordsmith.....just answer yes or no if you think that's fair !!!10 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.
What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).
Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!
There is no precedent, you cant compare it to what WoW did. WoW has never removed vet levels, no game has.
You also don't know what they will do with 1.7, its all utter assumption.
They have said they aren't awarding anymore CP, that is all they have said. For all you know they may let you keep the attribute points, kind of like a founder bonus. You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 50 to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.
The reality is that even if they drop you to 50, with no compensation, you still have lots of benefits over what a new 50 will have. Your time from VR1 to VR14 is not anywhere near as wasted as people claim.
OMG! EXACTLY!
No game has ever removed levels without offering proper compensation because that is STUPID!
And TRUE, we have NO IDEA what will happen 1.7 or when the veteran system is fully removed, but we know it is coming! MAYBE... Maybe it would be smart from ZOS to come around and explain how they will compensate all the exp lost reaching vr14 when the new System is implemented, because right now all we have from ZOS is "You will get nothing for your time" which is basicaly them giving us the finger! ^^
And really, if they drop us to lvl 50 (which is what they will be doing) we have no loss????? Seriously? Our gear will be changed (Our gear will be changed without any form of compensation - has been done by ZoS so they will do it again), we will lose all those Attribute points cause they already said so (Attribute points will be rebalanced to compensate, but that only give people that haven't actually gone through the trouble of leveling more power while reducing that of those who did bother to play the game for months)... So, or we get extra CPs or... What? We get a pet? >.>
I wish we'd at least get a decent answer, but I guess @ZOS_GinaBruno is too busy answering posts about the stabbing sound from Flurry!ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »The sound for Flurry is planned to be fixed once we release Update 6.
^ at 2:52 PM today.
Edited by Grao on January 5, 2015 10:45PM7 -
Voodoo✭✭✭✭4 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭
At the expense of screwing with everyone that has been playing the game longer then you.7 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.
What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).
Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!
There is no precedent, you cant compare it to what WoW did. WoW has never removed vet levels, no game has.
You also don't know what they will do with 1.7, its all utter assumption.
They have said they aren't awarding anymore CP, that is all they have said. For all you know they may let you keep the attribute points, kind of like a founder bonus. You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 50 to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.
The reality is that even if they drop you to 50, with no compensation, you still have lots of benefits over what a new 50 will have. Your time from VR1 to VR14 is not anywhere near as wasted as people claim.
What about 4 weeks after 1.6 launches and that fresh veteran 1 completes all the content I did.. but he gets the exp I didn't get and passes me. That's fair right ? Don't wordsmith.....just answer yes or no if you think that's fair !!!
Its not fair your progress has been lost, but the fact is it is lost. Mine is lost too, im not some sub VR level player, I have 3 vr characters, I have done gold twice. I loose a lot out of this
But the fact is also that no casual player will suddenly overtake me, that's utterly absurd, that would only happen if they suddenly start playing massively more and I start playing massively less.
If they did miraculously start playing massively more, they would get a whopping 22.5 CP from the VR1-10 zones, since they would not be getting enlightenment bonus's. At maximum enlightenment its 90 CP, but how long do you think it would take to get 90CP at max enlightenment? they would have to be barely playing at all.
There have been people saying just this same tripe that have played in excess of 100 days. They play 70+ hours a week. In what world will a casual player suddenly overtake them? are they going to start playing content that rewards them 20% of the same xp as the gold quests? are they heck.
Its just dummy spitting of the worst variety.
Anyone that has multiple VR14's will stay well ahead of the casuals and will accelerate ahead in the CP system.3 -
ZOS_ShannonM✭✭✭Hello Folks,
We have moderated this thread for a second time. We would like to let this thread continue as your concerns are important to us, but baiting and insults are not permitted on the forums. We also ask that you remain on topic of the thread, and not stray to side conversations.
Thank you for understanding.6 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_ShannonM wrote: »Hello Folks,
We have moderated this thread for a second time. We would like to let this thread continue as your concerns are important to us, but baiting and insults are not permitted on the forums. We also ask that you remain on topic of the thread, and not stray to side conversations.
Thank you for understanding.
But still no answers to our concerns! ^^7 -
Ohioastro✭✭✭✭Things that might or might not happen three months and two major updates from now are not facts. I want my current characters to retain their current power. I do *not* want my main to get a huge power boost. I want the veteran zones to remain challenging for new characters I level through them (and not have them be impossible either.) There is a lot to factor into power progression and character advancement in the new system; there is a lot that we don't know about the transition. Making up worst-case scenarios is not helpful.
The one thing that I do know is that games only are fun to me if they are challenging. It's not challenging to blast away someone in PvP who has no chance because of my stats and gear. It's not challenging to blast through PvE content in god mode. That's why it's important not to create too large of an imbalance: the high play time crowd will advocate for things interesting to them and impossible for low CP characters; newer players will simply avoid PvP after getting ganked over and over, leaving the game in a death spiral.
Games like this need caps and they need to emphasize horizontal progression over vertical. This has been proven over and over and over again in MMOs. Have a longer vision, and explain why large player power imbalances are good game design if you think that they're needed (before release even!)1 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.
What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).
Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!
There is no precedent, you cant compare it to what WoW did. WoW has never removed vet levels, no game has.
You also don't know what they will do with 1.7, its all utter assumption.
They have said they aren't awarding anymore CP, that is all they have said. For all you know they may let you keep the attribute points, kind of like a founder bonus. You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 50 to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.
The reality is that even if they drop you to 50, with no compensation, you still have lots of benefits over what a new 50 will have. Your time from VR1 to VR14 is not anywhere near as wasted as people claim.
They said no more CP was coming, which you pointed out.
They also said that players would be leveled out, whether they give v1s, v3s, etc. the extra points to equal a v14 or take points away from v14s, or some combination, existing v14s won't have anything over a lower level after 1.7 except completed quests - which can easily be done and will also earn CP for those characters - but not for the v14s that already did them.
Sure, if they never allow those characters a chance to do silver/gold or pick up skyshards or do quests, then we'll have those "benefits", but as soon as they do them, they will have anything we have plus more (CP for the quest XP). I honestly don't know how people can't see this.
Sure, if some guy has one vet 14 it might not be a huge deal. I have 5 v14s and a v5, all done with silver/gold (except the v5, he's only part way done). That's 65m xp that I can never earn for CP in the future. (And I pretty much prefer to quest, not pvp or grind). This leaves me with a couple more characters slots to earn CP on from questing (or group repeatables when my group all gets on) and then I'm done until they release new content. (Which doesn't look good for anytime soon, especially if we look at the lack of single player content actually added since launch).-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC2 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_ShannonM wrote: »Hello Folks,
We have moderated this thread for a second time. We would like to let this thread continue as your concerns are important to us, but baiting and insults are not permitted on the forums. We also ask that you remain on topic of the thread, and not stray to side conversations.
Thank you for understanding.
But still no answers to our concerns! ^^
They have answered a few times, but people just don't like the answer.
It's like my 5 year old daughter when she is wanting sweets. Can I have something? No. Can I have something? No. can I have something?6 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭What you guys clearly don't get it is that we are not upset about 1.6! Our problem is with what will happen on 1.7, when the veteran ranks are retired, the extra (13) Attribute Points earned between Vr1 and Vr14 are removed and gear requirements are also retired.
What will happen then? will those at high Veteran Ranks (now) be given Champion Points to compensate for the loss of the veteran ranks? No, we wont. And it is true, when WoW releases a new expansion you don't gain the new levels for free, but I played WoW for a long time and I don't ever remember them REMOVING levels from the game and offering no compensation to those already on those levels, those affected by the removal. Actually, WoW is really well known for ALWAYS compensating the players for EVERYTHING. Even when there is a currency change in PvP they find ways to compensate players losing the old currency by converting to Gold or the new PvP currency (with appropriate correction).
Again, we are not upset we are only being given 30 CPs now. We are upset because @ZOS_GinaBruno 's post reads as "When we finally fully implement the Champion System and remove veteran ranks, all of you that leveled characters up to Vr14 will get... Nothing for your trouble!". But hey! It is all for the good of the game, that is why you see it so often, companies removing levels from their game and giving nothing to those players whom spent months paying, playing, grinding to get those levels. Yup, that happens all the time!
There is no precedent, you cant compare it to what WoW did. WoW has never removed vet levels, no game has.
You also don't know what they will do with 1.7, its all utter assumption.
They have said they aren't awarding anymore CP, that is all they have said. For all you know they may let you keep the attribute points, kind of like a founder bonus. You also have all the skills you got from about 120 at vr 50 to 300 at vr 14. Those probably wont be taken from you either, nor will all the skill lines you have maxed.
The reality is that even if they drop you to 50, with no compensation, you still have lots of benefits over what a new 50 will have. Your time from VR1 to VR14 is not anywhere near as wasted as people claim.
They said no more CP was coming, which you pointed out.
They also said that players would be leveled out, whether they give v1s, v3s, etc. the extra points to equal a v14 or take points away from v14s, or some combination, existing v14s won't have anything over a lower level after 1.7 except completed quests - which can easily be done and will also earn CP for those characters - but not for the v14s that already did them.
Sure, if they never allow those characters a chance to do silver/gold or pick up skyshards or do quests, then we'll have those "benefits", but as soon as they do them, they will have anything we have plus more (CP for the quest XP). I honestly don't know how people can't see this.
Sure, if some guy has one vet 14 it might not be a huge deal. I have 5 v14s and a v5, all done with silver/gold (except the v5, he's only part way done). That's 65m xp that I can never earn for CP in the future. (And I pretty much prefer to quest, not pvp or grind). This leaves me with a couple more characters slots to earn CP on from questing (or group repeatables when my group all gets on) and then I'm done until they release new content. (Which doesn't look good for anytime soon, especially if we look at the lack of single player content actually added since launch).
The lack of new single player content is very much an issue. But it's all been delayed due to the chimp system. It will come though and hopefully pretty soon after the system is fully rolled out.
I only have an interest in Templar and Nightblade, both of which are pretty much out of single player non repeatable content now, so I'm stuck in that boat too.3 -
Cody✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Y'all whine about the most un-important things.
Why can't all this rage be directed at the horrendous mess that is PvP? or all the bugs and class imbalance?
This change is not a big deal. VR14s will still have an advantage over lower level players. ZOS has confirmed they are making VR14 gear(which will be scaled down to lvl 50) have more power, damage, as well as other things, over regular level 50 gear. Not to mention everything else ZOS has yet to mention.
I do agree with the statement that ZOS could communicate with their player base a LOT more than they do now. I have no respect for a staff department that only comes on to police the forums.
5 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭They haven't answered anything. When is 1.6 coming to PTS ? Are we going to be compensated when 1.7 comes out ? Why did the 6 month subscription go away ? Is the game going free to play ? When is the console version launching ? When are they going to do server maintenance again ? Will light and heavy attacks only build ult ? Are PvP buffs staying in the game ? Yes or No answers people....stop playing word games.7
-
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭I could go through the forums and find all the legit questions but i mean i dont need to. the proof is there.5
-
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭What we know so far:
- Vr1 - Vr14s are getting 30 CPs upon the release of the Champion System
- With the introduction of the Champion System, the days of the Veteran System are numbered.
- Attribute Points pertaining the Veteran Ranks will be removed. The remaining Attribute Points will be rebalanced to minimize that change.
What we need to know:
- Why are current Vr1s been given 30 free CPs when future Vr1s wont? (How does that doesn't create an imbalance?)
- How will those currently Vr2 - Vr14 will be compensate for the Experience they've gathered in the Veteran System previous to the release of 1.6?
- Will ESO become free to play within the next 6 months? (Is that why you removed the option to pay for 6 months of game time?)
@Joejudas , you are right... We need straight answers and explanations, no more vague excuses.4 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭Will ults stack is another one i have seen here. If they are going to a system of major buffs and minor ones....and Nova and Veil give damage reduction to players...are those considered major buffs...meaning the player can only get one but not both ?
2 -
whsprwind✭✭✭All we know so far is that we are given 30 points
What does this 30 points mean? Nobody knows exactly yet.
A poster above mentioned that if this 30points makes me as strong as I was when I was V14, then I have not lost my progress
However, a new V1 will no longer have to go through the "grind" to reach a competitive state, which means ZOS will be resolving a huge issue for many people who want to be competitive quickly.
What does the remaining 3570 (ish) points mean then?
Well it can probably just means that i can be effective at multiple roles at the same time. Of course, it would also mean that a person with maxed CPs will be maybe 10%-20% (just guesses) stronger than me at the same role, if I have only 30 points. That's acceptable to me.
Perhaps we should really take a step back and relook at the whole situation.
I think at this point, ZOS is making decisions on the basis that they know much better than we do, but are not sharing these knowledge.
The whole fairness of tracking XP is no doubt an issue that should be dealt with, but way I see it I don't mind if newer people be given the edge and get what I had worked hard for. (I don't lose anything anyway)NA(PC) - EP
- Dragon Knight Amuro X
"Of course you're a victim... what are you going to do about it? Transcend your own suffering and be a good person!" -jbp3 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Will ults stack is another one i have seen here. If they are going to a system of major buffs and minor ones....and Nova and Veil give damage reduction to players...are those considered major buffs...meaning the player can only get one but not both ?
I don't believe Ults will count as buffs.
Still, patch notes for 1.6 would be great, so I have another question for ZoS.
Why does ZoS only releases Patch Notes half an hour before releasing Patches? Do you trust that little your ability to implement patches?1 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭I think at this point, ZOS is making decisions on the basis that they know much better than we do, but are not sharing these knowledge.
That's not always the case and if it was they wouldn't be taking reports and having talks with the top guilds to help improve the game. There has been quite a few mistakes made on ZoS part were they didnt listen and it has hurt the game immensely. (example: leaving forward camps in the game for so long)
Edited by Inklings on January 6, 2015 4:57AM1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think at this point, ZOS is making decisions on the basis that they know much better than we do, but are not sharing these knowledge.
That's not always the case and if it was they wouldn't be taking reports and having talks with the top guilds to help improve the game. There has been quite a few mistakes made on ZoS part were they didnt listen and it has hurt the game immensely. (example: leaving forward camps in the game for so long)
Unfortunately after a rather controversial announcement ZoS went on vacations and the only ones left in the company have no clue what is going on. It is sad, they are so bad at communicating even their own employees are full of unanswered questions.
3 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭I think at this point, ZOS is making decisions on the basis that they know much better than we do, but are not sharing these knowledge.
That's not always the case and if it was they wouldn't be taking reports and having talks with the top guilds to help improve the game. There has been quite a few mistakes made on ZoS part were they didnt listen and it has hurt the game immensely. (example: leaving forward camps in the game for so long)
yeah im with you...it got bad there at the end that one guy was dropping troll camps to max out the limit.1 -
xaade✭✭✭xMovingTarget wrote: »And I won't shed a tear for players who are going to lose progress.
O.O Such a wonderful human being you are. Just leave, nobody will miss you..
Since Bethesda thought its a good idea to put TES on Consoles the game got worse and dumbed down. Morrowind was great, you had to use your brain. A true RPG.
Sounds like a scapegoat argument without any real evidence to back it up. There are many factors that change video games over the years, but I like Oblivion and Skyrim, and if they hadn't sold so well on consoles, ESO might not even exist.
PC actually sold 14%:
http://www.statisticbrain.com/skyrim-the-elder-scrolls-v-statistics/
Do you believe that 14% was enough to create ESO? And FYI, no one would miss you either.
I would miss him
And I got news for you: Oblivion & Skyrim would not exist, not on PC & certainly not on consoles either, if Morrowind hadn't been such a big that captured the hearts of RPG fans.
Bethesda was going through hard times when they were making it, and they had nothing to lose so they went all in on the project, which shows in the game's quality. Around 95% of people who played that game & whom I've talked to still consider it the best Elder Scrolls title.
Later, they became succesfull & began dumbing down to appease the disrespectful console players, who wanted everything made easy for them, just like they're used to (at the expense of PC players).
I'm probably going to get LOL'ed for this, I just know it, but since average human IQ has been on a downfall since the Victorian era, as everything has been dumbed down for people (easier life in cities than in the country, machines & electronics doing the work that human mind used to do etc), could consoles just be a direct continuation of this trend?
But you see, while you are correct that TES was created on PC, I'm not blaming PC for all my problems the way many blame consoles. So I really didn't need you to defend PC because I enjoy playing games on both. I would like some proof of your theories on how the game was dumbed down though because it sounds like hearsay BS. Did they write a book about this, or did you just gather this information from 'internet' sources?
It was created on PC, and ruined on consoles
How it was dumbed down? Have some examples:
Level ScalingMorrowind: No scaling, you could actually die if you went to the wrong place at the wrong time. You could die if you pissed off the wrong person.
Oblivion: Level scaling introduced, dying becomes an impossibility.
Skyrim: Level scaling continues, dying continues to be an impossiblity.
ArmourMorrowind:- You can wear clothing beneath your armour
- Three armour types (light, medium, heavy)
- Armour can break, 9 armor slots
- Clothing beneath armour deemed too confusing for some people & gets removed
- Armour types down to 2 (light and heavy)
- Armour can still break
- Down to 6 armour slots because 9 pieces was too hard to count for people
- People still don't need clothes in the frozen wastes of Skyrim
- People are still trying to understand what is between light & heavy
- Armour is suddenly made of mysterious metal that never breaks
- Chest+Greaves = Pyjama, and we are down to 5 armour slots, because who wants to collect a lot of items in RPG right? That's difficult & time-consuming when you have to equip more things.
SkillsMorrowind:- 27 Skills
- 21 Skills, because some people couldn't count to 27
- Still too many numbers, lots of heads hurt by thinking. Skills down to 18
AttributesMorrowind:- Strength, Speed, Intelligence, Willpower, Agility, Charisma, Luck.
- Your character is still a normal being.
- You need no strength, no speed, no intelligence, no willpower, agility, charisma or luck. Who needs those things? You've got health! And you can run with stamina and cast spells with magicka! Who needs strength or intelligence huh? Certainly not people in a real world. You are DRAGONBORN!!
And there are so, so many more examples that I could fill this thread with 100 more pages of evidence, and if you try to argue "oh, that wasn't dumbing down, it was *insert excuse here*" you're only proving my point.
Level Scaling.
I miss the lack of level scaling, but let me ask you this. Have you played New Vegas? I guess you're ok with the developers holding your hand on where to travel. That's exactly the reason they introduced level scaling, and it's in their quotes. They wanted to open up the map, so players could decide what order to do things, and make their own game. This genre of game is an exploration game more than an RPG. D&D exists for number crunchers.
Armor.
Yeah, I didn't get the transition to chest/greaves being one piece of armor. I hated it for the lack of armor mixing and customization. However, they didn't do this to simplify the amount of gear. They did this to allow for more accurate gear visuals. In Morrowind's generation of graphics clipping didn't matter as much. Who cares if your greaves clipped through your chest? Skyrim did care, so they solved it by merging the pieces. ESO solved it by normalizing the gear. Just look at ESO, the position and existence of every floating part of the visual of gear is very predictable.
Chest is nearly skin tight, can have a front flap and back flap that always moves like cloth. Legs can have a side piece that can look like part of the chest but always moves with the hips. Feet can have kneecaps, hands can have elbow caps. Belt is always just a single charm attached to the front middle waist over the front flap. The reason we don't have variety, is because of visual normalization. Not because we have less slots to make it easier to track.
Don't like it in Skyrim, there are mods that separate the pieces, if you can accept the inevitable clipping.
Skills
Do we really need a skill that increases with the amount of movement you do?
Granted, it was entertaining for exotic roleplay cases, but the top speed in oblivion was ridiculous. The top jump height was ridiculous too. And whereas it solved the waist high fence, it broke immersion so bad. Nothing could touch my cricket archer.
The smaller amount of skills allowed for increase depth and meaning to each skill that remained. The customization in Skyrim is more advanced than Morrowind, even if the skill progression fits traditional roleplay more in Morrowind.
And, seriously, nothing, I mean nothing, could defend Oblivion's skill and level advancement. What's more immersion breaking than, "OK got to switch to my sword and shield so I get 5,5,5 skillups when I level up"? If anything Oblivion would have done better with Final Fantasy II skill and level system. Use it, it gets better. Stop using it, it gets worse.
As for intelligence and willpower. I liked those being separate stats, but there's no harm in making them one stat. The stats separate when you introduce enchantments in gear.
Charisma? No real benefit. Just like speed is the real stat for running, speech is the real stat for winning the minigame. So, why not just make it a skill and not a stat? Most people flop on Charisma, and make it up by the end of the game if they are min/max.
The only way you could fix a charisma character to work in an ES game, is by letting it control your companions skill level. A merchant roleplayed character never works in an ES game. You have to break the concept to make it work. So the stat is debatable at all. It would be an interesting system to allow charisma to help you build a mini army and direct them in combat, but that's not in the game.
The idea of stats and armor is to help you build a role-play character. This is true, even in D&D. The moment you have you sit and number crunch to be effective is the moment immersion is broken in an RPG. Bethesda recognized this and simplified the stat and armor system, because that's what's fun for the most people.
Stats and armor support immersion, not break it. So show me stats to help me choose my character build, then get out of the way while I roleplay the game.
3 -
Zed✭✭✭I think at this point, ZOS is making decisions on the basis that they know much better than we do, but are not sharing these knowledge.
That's not always the case and if it was they wouldn't be taking reports and having talks with the top guilds to help improve the game. There has been quite a few mistakes made on ZoS part were they didnt listen and it has hurt the game immensely. (example: leaving forward camps in the game for so long)
yeah im with you...it got bad there at the end that one guy was dropping troll camps to max out the limit.
If we could have camps without the suicide porting, they wouldn't be so bad. Troll camps would have be less of a problem if Zenimax would have taken action against those who did things that were "against the spirit of the the game" but that's a murky area and hard to moderate.Spend spend spend! 'Cause you don't know any better.1 -
Voodoo✭✭✭✭
At the expense of screwing with everyone that has been playing the game longer then you.
lol been playing sice beta ..and anyways all this whining is pure speculation on what the final CP will be implemented as.
Word of advise .... Save the bitching for WHEN it is a REALITY! Until then its all pure spin!
2 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭
At the expense of screwing with everyone that has been playing the game longer then you.
lol been playing sice beta ..and anyways all this whining is pure speculation on what the final CP will be implemented as.
Word of advise .... Save the bitching for WHEN it is a REALITY! Until then its all pure spin!
Yes, hold on to our concerns untill ZoS has no time to adjust their brilliant plans. Yup, apathy and inaction will get the best results and will definitely get answers.3 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭still nothing from ZOS about anything....this is looking more and more like my last month of subbing. i honestly mean it.4
