A Question on Sorcerer Animation Cancelling

JaJaLuka · January 2015

Recently I have figured out a way to summon pets (using a similar method to animation cancelling) on my bar without having the ability slotted, I'm not going to go into details on how to do it, I would prefer to have the majority of people figure it out on their own.
My question is this:
Is this considered an exploit or can this be viewed as a valid tactic due to it taking at least skill or know how in the same way that animation cancelling is considered skilful play? (The method is highly comparable to animation cancelling).

Note: personally I don't consider this an exploit as it is relatively difficult to do DURING combat and it's even harder to keep the pets in play. Sorcerers don't have any viable animation cancelling options (class skills only) as everything has a timer (curse), is placed (mines) or is charged (crystal shards). I am aware that Sorcerer's can be strong in their own way if they are played by an experienced player, but they are by far the weakest class in comparison to the others, allowing for things like this might finally bridge a small portion of the gap.
On a side note I also think that Sorcerer pets should not de-spawn when you change bar as NB shades act that way.

Ackwalan · January 2015

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

miahq · January 2015

Ackwalan wrote: »

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

What this person said...

Also, animation canceling is still an exploit, it's just a more widely accepted one at the moment. You're exploiting a flaw in the mechanic that allows you to bypass what is essentially a cast time. And although it's not going to stop me from doing it in the mean time, it should probably be fixed at some point. Regardless, calling that (animation canceling) skillful play is sort of lowering the bar as to what should be considered skillful.

JaJaLuka · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

What this person said...

Also, animation canceling is still an exploit, it's just a more widely accepted one at the moment. You're exploiting a flaw in the mechanic that allows you to bypass what is essentially a cast time. And although it's not going to stop me from doing it in the mean time, it should probably be fixed at some point. Regardless, calling that (animation canceling) skillful play is sort of lowering the bar as to what should be considered skillful.

I can understand why having a maintained spell active without it being on your bar would be an exploit (partly why I won't explain how to do it), but animation cancelling is not an exploit and has been acknowledged as such by zos.

miahq · January 2015

JaJaLuka wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

What this person said...

Also, animation canceling is still an exploit, it's just a more widely accepted one at the moment. You're exploiting a flaw in the mechanic that allows you to bypass what is essentially a cast time. And although it's not going to stop me from doing it in the mean time, it should probably be fixed at some point. Regardless, calling that (animation canceling) skillful play is sort of lowering the bar as to what should be considered skillful.

I can understand why having a maintained spell active without it being on your bar would be an exploit (partly why I won't explain how to do it), but animation cancelling is not an exploit and has been acknowledged as such by zos.

I said it was a more acceptable one. Acknowledging it just means they've no intention of changing it. Technically though you're still exploiting a flaw in the combat system.

But, it's largely a matter of semantics what it's called. As you said, it's not going anywhere. I just wouldn't complain if it did go away. Actually it might make things a little more interesting.

JaJaLuka · January 2015

I actually don't use the above described summoning technique, I prefer having a familiar that I can unsummon as well on my main bar, this technique of summoning and keeping it out is actually pretty clunky and extremely hard to maintain while being easy to counter. I only mentioned that I had figured out how to do it, not that I have been using it. I stumbled across how to do it when I was trying to make another build for my sorc, I was just trying to see what skills synergised the best for me.

thelordoffelines · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

What this person said...

Also, animation canceling is still an exploit, it's just a more widely accepted one at the moment. You're exploiting a flaw in the mechanic that allows you to bypass what is essentially a cast time. And although it's not going to stop me from doing it in the mean time, it should probably be fixed at some point. Regardless, calling that (animation canceling) skillful play is sort of lowering the bar as to what should be considered skillful.

What about skills like crushing shock who's cast time reads "instant"?

miahq · January 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

What this person said...

Also, animation canceling is still an exploit, it's just a more widely accepted one at the moment. You're exploiting a flaw in the mechanic that allows you to bypass what is essentially a cast time. And although it's not going to stop me from doing it in the mean time, it should probably be fixed at some point. Regardless, calling that (animation canceling) skillful play is sort of lowering the bar as to what should be considered skillful.

What about skills like crushing shock who's cast time reads "instant"?

My response would be that people should learn the subtle difference in meaning from word choice people tend to use sometimes so I don't have to address questions where the answer seems pretty obvious in my original statement.

Tripwyr · January 2015

miahq wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

What this person said...

Also, animation canceling is still an exploit, it's just a more widely accepted one at the moment. You're exploiting a flaw in the mechanic that allows you to bypass what is essentially a cast time. And although it's not going to stop me from doing it in the mean time, it should probably be fixed at some point. Regardless, calling that (animation canceling) skillful play is sort of lowering the bar as to what should be considered skillful.

Animation cancelling is an example of Emergent Gameplay. ZOS has stated that they like the way it makes the game feel, and they have no intention of changing it.

This is not considered an exploit in the online gaming sense. For those of you new to online gaming, the name exploit reserved for those flaws considered cheating, not the traditional broader definition of all unintended software "features"/flaws.

Columba · January 2015

the moral relativism is strong in this thread.

Tripwyr · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

the moral relativism is strong in this thread.

Let me just leave this here:

Columba wrote: »

I've been using snipe since beta. I refused to use silver shards when it was bugged. now using focused aim. Neither lag the server.... so qq more.

P.S. I noticed now that Lethal Arrow is fixed you're back to Focused Aim.

Moral Relativism.

miahq · January 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

miahq wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

If you are able to keep a maintained spell active (pet) while not having that spell on your bar, it is an exploit.

What this person said...

Also, animation canceling is still an exploit, it's just a more widely accepted one at the moment. You're exploiting a flaw in the mechanic that allows you to bypass what is essentially a cast time. And although it's not going to stop me from doing it in the mean time, it should probably be fixed at some point. Regardless, calling that (animation canceling) skillful play is sort of lowering the bar as to what should be considered skillful.

Animation cancelling is an example of Emergent Gameplay. ZOS has stated that they like the way it makes the game feel, and they have no intention of changing it.

This is not considered an exploit in the online gaming sense. For those of you new to online gaming, the name exploit reserved for those flaws considered cheating, not the traditional broader definition of all unintended software "features"/flaws.

Jesus Christ, maybe I wasn't clear enough when I said what you call it is just a matter of semantics, but The translation is I don't care.

Columba · January 2015

Tripwyr wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

the moral relativism is strong in this thread.

Let me just leave this here:

Columba wrote: »

I've been using snipe since beta. I refused to use silver shards when it was bugged. now using focused aim. Neither lag the server.... so qq more.

P.S. I noticed now that Lethal Arrow is fixed you're back to Focused Aim.

Moral Relativism.

i switched before it was "fixed" friend. I also didn't use silver bolts when they were one shotting vamps.

Tripwyr · January 2015

Columba wrote: »

Tripwyr wrote: »

Columba wrote: »

the moral relativism is strong in this thread.

Let me just leave this here:

Columba wrote: »

I've been using snipe since beta. I refused to use silver shards when it was bugged. now using focused aim. Neither lag the server.... so qq more.

P.S. I noticed now that Lethal Arrow is fixed you're back to Focused Aim.

Moral Relativism.

i switched before it was "fixed" friend. I also didn't use silver bolts when they were one shotting vamps.

That screenshot was during the bug. You can get up on your high horse all you want, but its only wrong when it inconveniences you.

Columba · January 2015

so glad you track my every move, lol. obsess much? I swapped in and out while it was bugged.

JaJaLuka · January 2015

Would love to hear from the developers perspectives on these issues sometimes in the threads.

@ZOS_MichelleA‌ @ZOS_TristanK @ZOS_BrianWheeler‌

Whoever feels like answering or directing us to a place where we can find answers to these issues for the future it would be much appreciated.

Tripwyr · January 2015

This is very clearly an exploit.

IxSTALKERxI · January 2015

#Nerf Sorc buff NB

Armitas · January 2015

You can do it with any toggle. I reported it about 5 months ago and explained how to do it. Not sure why you can still do it but it might be a hard consequence of the weapon system.

JaJaLuka · January 2015

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

#Nerf Sorc buff NB

lol, hell no!
Definitely should fix stealth for NB though, would solve a ton of issues with that class.

NotSo · January 2015

I would actually not mind this being public knowledge. It changes the meta game and ZOS doesn't ban based on exploits.

I play a lot of super smash bros and all tournaments run on players ability to master exploited maneuvers, in their case, they go out of their way to make all newly founded techniques public.

If ZOS decides there's something wrong with a particular mechanic, they'll patch it out.

Lava_Croft · January 2015

So that's why I had Radiant Magelight active when changing skillbars a while ago. I was wondering how the hell that happened and now I am wondering how I managed to do it.

Cathexis · January 2015

Lava_Croft wrote: »

So that's why I had Radiant Magelight active when changing skillbars a while ago. I was wondering how the hell that happened and now I am wondering how I managed to do it.

Ya I had the same thing happen. Thought it was a glitch.

Sanct16 · January 2015

If you toggle it and switch bars at the same time, it will be still toggled although you dobt have it in bar. If you change the bar twice afterwards it wont be toggled anymore tho.

NotSo · January 2015

Well now the word is out. Shame I won't be able to try until I get back next month, though.

Sanct16 · January 2015

Its not worth it if you swap weapons several times in combat.