Maintenance for the week of December 15:
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – December 15, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
Thoughts on the CP cap
tiamak
✭✭✭
[Edit reminded me to warn you of a wall of text and thank you for reading, in case you do.]
While I know that there are already a lot of threads on this topic, I just couldn't resist the urge to add another one. My main char is V9, my highest alt is around 15. So, one could say that I'm not the fastest cat in town with respect to leveling. And maybe, I'm thus not qualified to comment on the issue. But, again, still I will.
I don't know how the champion system will look like and what it's impact on the game will be. I recall something about "horizontal rather than vertical progression". Whatever that means, it sounds like in general arguments of the kind "I have X points more than you, so I rule" will be non-starters above V1.
So, what is the issue with the CP cap of 30?
Does it matter whether we're all at level cap with V1 or with V14? Sure, with V14 being the cap, it takes a bit longer for some players. But, apart from that? In analogy, does it matter whether we're all considered to be V1 + 30 CP and then progress further or start at different amounts of CP and then, eventually, reach the cap one after the other? People who play a lot will gain those CP much faster than those who don't, so, there will be a difference even after the champion system goes live.
ZOS did encourage us to continue playing and now we learn that many efforts will have been a waste. To me, that's just tough luck. So, they didn't stick to their initial plans. And they now pay the price for coming up too early with anouncements on how this thing will work out. But I would refrain from saying that they intentionally lied to their paying customers.
Those two points are the reason why I'm not concerned with the CP cap. But, I think there is one legitimate reason to be severely worried about this:
Never, ever take something from an MMO-player away! It's not about an item being destroyed in a fair fight (and even that simply doesn't happen). It's about the feeling of having acchieved something during the last eight months. Some people will be mad not because they are on a par with fresh V1 chars but because at least two or three months of progression are not rewarded. RPGs and especially MMORPGs are about appropriate rewards, and, I guess, some will feel betrayed for their reward.
So, as a suggestion: All the quests we've done are logged. Just reward everyone with CPs in correlation to the number of quests she or he has completed in the vet zones. That would avoid the gap growing to wide but still reward those players that completed all those quests.
Edited by tiamak on January 5, 2015 11:45AM While I know that there are already a lot of threads on this topic, I just couldn't resist the urge to add another one. My main char is V9, my highest alt is around 15. So, one could say that I'm not the fastest cat in town with respect to leveling. And maybe, I'm thus not qualified to comment on the issue. But, again, still I will.
I don't know how the champion system will look like and what it's impact on the game will be. I recall something about "horizontal rather than vertical progression". Whatever that means, it sounds like in general arguments of the kind "I have X points more than you, so I rule" will be non-starters above V1.
So, what is the issue with the CP cap of 30?
Does it matter whether we're all at level cap with V1 or with V14? Sure, with V14 being the cap, it takes a bit longer for some players. But, apart from that? In analogy, does it matter whether we're all considered to be V1 + 30 CP and then progress further or start at different amounts of CP and then, eventually, reach the cap one after the other? People who play a lot will gain those CP much faster than those who don't, so, there will be a difference even after the champion system goes live.
ZOS did encourage us to continue playing and now we learn that many efforts will have been a waste. To me, that's just tough luck. So, they didn't stick to their initial plans. And they now pay the price for coming up too early with anouncements on how this thing will work out. But I would refrain from saying that they intentionally lied to their paying customers.
Those two points are the reason why I'm not concerned with the CP cap. But, I think there is one legitimate reason to be severely worried about this:
Never, ever take something from an MMO-player away! It's not about an item being destroyed in a fair fight (and even that simply doesn't happen). It's about the feeling of having acchieved something during the last eight months. Some people will be mad not because they are on a par with fresh V1 chars but because at least two or three months of progression are not rewarded. RPGs and especially MMORPGs are about appropriate rewards, and, I guess, some will feel betrayed for their reward.
So, as a suggestion: All the quests we've done are logged. Just reward everyone with CPs in correlation to the number of quests she or he has completed in the vet zones. That would avoid the gap growing to wide but still reward those players that completed all those quests.
2
-
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭I am also baffled by their idea of 30CPs for every Vet char. I understand their desire to bring players to the same level, but their solution does not do so. And even more importantly, it will be even less viable in the future.
Those that play a lot will still move away from those that don't. And it will probably happen before 1.7 hits. What will they do then to protect their idea?2 -
Rev Rielle✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is what happens when players only do something for the in-game reward/exp/progression/etc. All basically materialistic, extrinsic things. Players should be playing for the simple enjoyment moment to moment. It's a game after all, something we should enjoy doing in our spare time; a hobby. Focus on the intrinsic more and less on the materialistic and you'll find that can never be taken away from you. The way we use to play games once upon a time; not just to see who's character has the biggest sword, or highest level, or who's played the longest, or can hit of the hardest. But for simple fun.Edited by Rev Rielle on January 5, 2015 12:20PMIf you can be anything, be kind.7 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »This is what happens when players only do something for the in-game reward/exp/progression/etc. All basically materialistic, extrinsic things. Players should be playing for the simple enjoyment moment to moment. It's a game after all, something we should enjoy doing in our spare time; a hobby. Focus on the intrinsic more and less on the materialistic and you'll find that can never be taken away from you. The way we use to play games once upon a time; not just to see who's character has the biggest sword, or highest level, or who's played the longest, or can hit of the hardest. But for simple fun.
True, but expecting us not be so passionate is like expecting politicians to care for people.1 -
nerevarine1138✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »This is what happens when players only do something for the in-game reward/exp/progression/etc. All basically materialistic, extrinsic things. Players should be playing for the simple enjoyment moment to moment. It's a game after all, something we should enjoy doing in our spare time; a hobby. Focus on the intrinsic more and less on the materialistic and you'll find that can never be taken away from you. The way we use to play games once upon a time; not just to see who's character has the biggest sword, or highest level, or who's played the longest, or can hit of the hardest. But for simple fun.
True, but expecting us not be so passionate is like expecting politicians to care for people.
Actually, most people still play games for fun. Those people just don't tend to go on the forums.----
Murray?2 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Rev Rielle wrote: »This is what happens when players only do something for the in-game reward/exp/progression/etc. All basically materialistic, extrinsic things. Players should be playing for the simple enjoyment moment to moment. It's a game after all, something we should enjoy doing in our spare time; a hobby. Focus on the intrinsic more and less on the materialistic and you'll find that can never be taken away from you. The way we use to play games once upon a time; not just to see who's character has the biggest sword, or highest level, or who's played the longest, or can hit of the hardest. But for simple fun.
True, but expecting us not be so passionate is like expecting politicians to care for people.
Actually, most people still play games for fun. Those people just don't tend to go on the forums.
They have no idea what they are missing, then.
5 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭nerevarine1138 wrote: »Rev Rielle wrote: »This is what happens when players only do something for the in-game reward/exp/progression/etc. All basically materialistic, extrinsic things. Players should be playing for the simple enjoyment moment to moment. It's a game after all, something we should enjoy doing in our spare time; a hobby. Focus on the intrinsic more and less on the materialistic and you'll find that can never be taken away from you. The way we use to play games once upon a time; not just to see who's character has the biggest sword, or highest level, or who's played the longest, or can hit of the hardest. But for simple fun.
True, but expecting us not be so passionate is like expecting politicians to care for people.
Actually, most people still play games for fun. Those people just don't tend to go on the forums.
They have no idea what they are missing, then.
Best PVP there is to be had.3 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭felinith66 wrote: »What are your thoughts on this?ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.
We are hard at work on it and I’m here to answer a few of your questions. Most of these questions were also asked during our Guild Round Table in the last two days.
What happens to the Skill Points from VR1-12? Are they carried over to the CS instead?
The Skill Points we reward will not be removed from you! You will continue to have the same amount of Skill Points you do now. The Champion System does not reward any Skill Points, only gaining Veteran Ranks does. When we take out Veteran Ranks we will make sure that anyone that didn't make it max Veteran Rank will still rewarded with those Skill Points.
It's Maria and her promises. You can bet it will not happen as she says. Probably those that are Vet14 at the time, will be downgraded to some imaginary average Vet level.
2 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sure, nothing of that has ever been mentioned anywhere on these forums before...
! 1 -
Heishi✭✭✭✭✭I liked the initial discussed design of the champ system where points were account wide and available to any char that was lv50. It had its flaws, but definitely not as flawed as the new redesigned version.
Originally I was going to keep playing a char that had became my main and try to push up to VR14. I got to about VR2 and heard the change.
What do I have now?
Well I've been working more horizontally than vertically since the announcement. Currently I have 2 VR1 in AD and 1 VR2 in EP. I have a char that is 47, will be VR1 in the next day or so. Then I have a 37 in EP I'll be trying to push up before patch.
Why? Why not. If I'm going to lose all the time put in past VR1 I might as well make a variety of VR1 chars instead of pushing through the current VR content which takes a long time to lvl anyways
Sure I could do Cadwell's silver and gold to experience the game.. or.. I could just have a new char in a new alliance and get the same effect.
I really have little interest in Craiglorn and DSA as they are now anyway. I will never use cookie cutter chars, I'm not going to fight and beg to get into groups, I'm not going to sit in a queue and wait to play the game.And so did many brave men, women, and beast fall to the end of Beta, never to be heard from again. All that is left, is whispers of the adventures they had.0 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Rev Rielle wrote: »This is what happens when players only do something for the in-game reward/exp/progression/etc. All basically materialistic, extrinsic things. Players should be playing for the simple enjoyment moment to moment. It's a game after all, something we should enjoy doing in our spare time; a hobby. Focus on the intrinsic more and less on the materialistic and you'll find that can never be taken away from you. The way we use to play games once upon a time; not just to see who's character has the biggest sword, or highest level, or who's played the longest, or can hit of the hardest. But for simple fun.
There is fun to be had in progression. Progression isn't about materialism, it's about wanting to be able to do something, working towards that goal and eventually achieving it. There is satisfaction in a hard-won achievement.
It's good for the soul
1 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Thanks for that. That hardly ever happens here.While I know that there are already a lot of threads on this topic, I just couldn't resist the urge to add another one.
Neither does anyone else at this point. It's 99% speculation.I don't know how the champion system will look like and what it's impact on the game will beSo, what is the issue with the CP cap of 30?
Does it matter whether we're all at level cap with V1 or with V14? Sure, with V14 being the cap, it takes a bit longer for some players. But, apart from that? In analogy, does it matter whether we're all considered to be V1 + 30 CP and then progress further or start at different amounts of CP and then, eventually, reach the cap one after the other? People who play a lot will gain those CP much faster than those who don't, so, there will be a difference even after the champion system goes live.
ZOS did encourage us to continue playing and now we learn that many efforts will have been a waste. To me, that's just tough luck. So, they didn't stick to their initial plans. And they now pay the price for coming up too early with anouncements on how this thing will work out. But I would refrain from saying that they intentionally lied to their paying customers.
Those two points are the reason why I'm not concerned with the CP cap. But, I think there is one legitimate reason to be severely worried about this:
Never, ever take something from an MMO-player away! It's not about an item being destroyed in a fair fight (and even that simply doesn't happen). It's about the feeling of having acchieved something during the last eight months. Some people will be mad not because they are on a par with fresh V1 chars but because at least two or three months of progression are not rewarded. RPGs and especially MMORPGs are about appropriate rewards, and, I guess, some will feel betrayed for their reward.
So, as a suggestion: All the quests we've done are logged. Just reward everyone with CPs in correlation to the number of quests she or he has completed in the vet zones. That would avoid the gap growing to wide but still reward those players that completed all those quests.
It's not a CAP, it's a starting point. It's a way for them to see how players, V1-V14 place initial points. It's a way for them to see how fast and in what ways people V1-V14 earn subsequent points.
They could have started with 0, just as easily.
They haven't taken anything away. You hit 14, you stopped. You didn't earn more 14ness. You could still level remaining skills. Guessing people didn't stop turning in quests even before CP just because they hit level cap.
There will still be methods to earn CP's. The update is not even on PTS yet.
The final determination is yet to be made and what they will/won't do about it.
30 points is the next step. It's not the final one.
Anyone without "Z O S" in front of their name, simply doesn't yet know.Edited by Merlin13KAGL on January 6, 2015 9:00PMJust because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS3 -
I_killed_Vivec✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The more I think about this the more I believe that we are just beta testing the console version.
ZOS needs to give us CP from the start otherwise they won't get any immediate info about how we want to allocate them. And then which ones we want nerfed/buffed because heavy armour still doesn't work the way it should...
ZOS also needs to find out how quickly people gain CP - the grinders, the VR1s doing Cadwell's, the PvPers, the groups in Craglorn. All of these will gain XP at different rates and as ZOS's intention is to bring player levels together I imagine there will be quite a balancing job.
1.6 will be interesting but it will really be a bit of froth layered on top of the current VR system until we get 1.7. This is when we will get the real change, a complete rewrite of the post-Molag Bal game, affecting all aspects of the game - scaling, crafting, "progression". Throw in spellcrafting and we will have a completely new game!
I imagine that 1.7 will be the toughest balancing act of all, and the squeals about 30 CP will be nothing compared to the complaints when VR ranks are removed.
And all the VR2+ players see why the current VR14s are complaining about the loss of progression...1
