Whenever there are levels/points/achievements/badges to collect, some people make it their goal to collect all of them. It's just the way the world works. They aren't "missing the point"; everybody finds different aspects of the game enjoyable. Maxing out your level, skills etc. is a perfectly valid reason to keep playing, especially in a game where content is finite. Once you run out of non-repeatable tasks, what motivates you to stay and repeat what you've already done?

Of course some, maybe most, people will want to max everything out - I play games to do the best I can with the time I've got within the structure of the game which is why I will be getting as many CP as I can to make my character better and give myself the best chance to excel in PvE & PvP content.

That doesn't mean I won't explore, fish, quest and otherwise have fun while doing so.

Nor does that mean people looking for maximum points are not learning playing skills either - but you don't show up to center court at Wimbledon with an old wooden tennis racket and wear jeans - if you want to do well then you need to come properly equipped and part of that is now going to be racking up CPs.

ZOS can give as much BS as they want about level playing fields and minimising gaps to justify their shambolic decision making process but one day all the current VR14s who have played for 1,000+ hours & continue to play will also have 3600 CPs while those who play for a couple of hours a week will still lag far behind, possibly farther behind than they do now.

RSram wrote: »

Why ZOS chooses to call them CPs in instead of Skill Points just boggles my mind in adding extra complexity to a system that doesn't need it. Just like the VR system was stupid.

Because skill points are completely different things. Skill points are used to unlock skills and morphs in skill trees. Champion points are used to unlock passives in constenlations. If you could use skill points for both, you could get all skills in few weeks and collecting skyshards would be pointless.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »

People who complain about "grinds" and "gear mills" and "difficulty"
have zero business playing an MMORPG.

To an extent I agree.

It's become apparent with all the failed mmo's over the years; that you cant just innovate, leave all of the 'staple elements' of what has come to define the term mmorpg behind, and then claim it actually still is one.

FFXIV proves that theres plenty of room for features that encourage grinding, or repeating things. Even if that shouldnt be the 'only' progressive option, its success over there speaks for itself. Theres a place for kicking back and relaxing into something grindy whilst chatting away or otherwise at times.

As for the C system. I think its different things to different people. Some are obsessed with 'firsts' and 'power', others could care less - but enjoy developing themselves further regardless.

As long as the system has a broad appeal, something that the VR system clearly didnt, Its all good. Its more future proof too, in that it can be expanded and integrated into future things in interesting ways.

I think people should give it a chance. It could blend a form of grind (getting the points) whilst still allowing people to do so in ways that arent quite as simplistically repetitive.

Best of both worlds. That could actually be a good step forward for the genre. I know people are obsessed with their own perspectives but long term, if one group is ignored - they leave - and then the rest of the game follows suit.

Something that appeals to both the grinders and the non-grinders in a compromise of sorts could be really good. If they dont mess it up ofcourse.

Guppet wrote: »

If your seeing the cp as the objective, then there's a good chance you'll gravitate to the most efficient content to award cp.

With systems as open as the cp system, you could easily spend so much time gaining cp, in content that you don't overly enjoy, with the intention of once you have got enough cp, to then do the content you enjoy, that you never actually get to the content you enjoy. If that makes sense.

There is also the chance that if you can gain serious power levels from the cp, that you'll get so far ahead of the difficulty of the content that it becomes no longer fun.

For example anyone that has ever completely maxed out the final fantasy games on ps1, once you got to level 100 and maxed all you characters and materia, nothing was any challenge anymore. Hope that makes sense.

It's possible to spend so much time and effort optimising, that you don't spend enough time on the content you are doing it for.

This would be great, enough power to have fun without being forced to min/max then I can just enjoy it all. I hope this is exactly the situation

In theory its not a grind, but an advancement of our chars, that comes over time by just playing the game. Keep in mind, everything we do will work towards the CS.
That said, VR wasn't supposed to be a grind either.

What made VR a grind was the silly idea of the players that maxing a char in the shortest amount of time is what defines the game and ZO by gating content behind a VR level.

Same will happen with the CS. Sooner or later groups will appear with "only 100 CPs, only 250 CPs" etc. so that players will be forced into grinding their points if they want to be competitive in PVP or accepted in PVE group content. At the same time content will at some point require a specific amount of points to succeed in it.

WS had a similar system and in the long run people abused it to filter players, so that new people and casuals were rejected from any type of group activity outside of their f list, as it was too hard / took to long.


I hope that ZO will factor all of this in, I don't think anyone wants a game where you must have x amount of CP´s to be allowed to play.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Champion System is an orthogonal (i.e. alternative advancement, AA) leveling system that has been implemented by many other games like DAOC or recently in Diablo 3 (Paragon levels). Its primary purpose is not to be maxed out within short time spans, but to give a continuing sense of progression to the player in the long run.

Govalon wrote: »

RSram wrote: »

Why ZOS chooses to call them CPs in instead of Skill Points just boggles my mind in adding extra complexity to a system that doesn't need it. Just like the VR system was stupid.

Because skill points are completely different things. Skill points are used to unlock skills and morphs in skill trees. Champion points are used to unlock passives in constenlations. If you could use skill points for both, you could get all skills in few weeks and collecting skyshards would be pointless.

These two sum up the Champion system, it's long winding system of passives that slowly make your characters stronger, and giving you a sense of accomplishment.

They more you put in, the longer it takes to get the next champion point, and the more for the one after that. This is basically grinding, they are just trying to distract us from this by telling us to go after the achievements, and just doing quests and PVP. But a grind is still a grind.

lordrichter wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

My understanding if the new system, is that it is not intended to be grinded at all. The system is just supposed to be what happens in the back ground, while you do the content you want to. It is not supposed to be the reason you are doing the content.

How do other people see the system?

It is much more than this.

The Champion System changes the focus of the end game. It moves everything to the Player. A level capped character collects CP, but they go to the Player, not the character. It is the Player that is earning the end-game rewards.

This is the single biggest conceptual change in the entire system. The conversion of character progress after level cap to Player progress after level cap.

Now that change I love very much. It works ever so well with the banking system, being able to share gear bound gear. The game went from very alt unfriendly, to one of the most alt friendly in one patch

Yes Champion System will be a far worse grind than Veteran System. But only for those that will actually "grind" it.

Everyone else that will just play the game, and be happy with the points they're getting for "doing everything they would anyway", they won't even feel the need to swap between the CP UI every 5 secs like all the min/maxers.

The funny thing though is, how they reduced points from 14.400 to 3.600. Yep 4x less. I'm pretty sure, they'll keep on expanding them anyway, so we'll get to 14.400 at some point.

3600 Points = 600 days playtime / 1.64 years
14.400 Points = 2400 days playtime / 6.57 years

The champion system we're getting is, more or less, identical to the paragon system used in diablo 3. It's meant to give people something else to grind for when they run out of new content.

Razzak wrote: »

Faugaun wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

If your seeing the cp as the objective, then there's a good chance you'll gravitate to the most efficient content to award cp.

With systems as open as the cp system, you could easily spend so much time gaining cp, in content that you don't overly enjoy, with the intention of once you have got enough cp, to then do the content you enjoy, that you never actually get to the content you enjoy. If that makes sense.

There is also the chance that if you can gain serious power levels from the cp, that you'll get so far ahead of the difficulty of the content that it becomes no longer fun.

For example anyone that has ever completely maxed out the final fantasy games on ps1, once you got to level 100 and maxed all you characters and materia, nothing was any challenge anymore. Hope that makes sense.

It's possible to spend so much time and effort optimising, that you don't spend enough time on the content you are doing it for.

This would be great, enough power to have fun without being forced to min/max then I can just enjoy it all. I hope this is exactly the situation

You have the same option now. What's stopping you from doing it this way?

To true, shutting my mouth now.

Cheers!