GameMaster Harassment & Casting Spells At Bank

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

Hello,

I was recently in Grahtwood bank working on some equipment. I had a set of armor created, but had not applied enchants, food buffs, or assigned my character stats (recently reset). I decided to see how many breath of life heals I could cast before running out of magicka before I added any stats, food, or enchants.

I cast 6 breath of life spells. I'm hoping I can at least double that with the increases I planned.

I was immediately contacted by a GameMaster who told me not to spam. I told the GameMaster that I was not spamming anyone, but that I had cast a total of 6 spells while testing an armor set. The GameMaster indicated that I was disruptive for casting the 6 spells and that spamming was not allowed. I disagreed and asked for the issue to be escalated. The GameMaster refused. He asked that I not cast any spells at the bank and threatened to take action against my account if I did cast any further spells at the bank.

I complied with his request, but indicated I would be taking the matter to the forums for clarification of policy and hopefully some retraining for this GameMaster. I took screenshots of the conversation and had originally planned to post them so that there would be no question as to the conversation that took place. As my question is to policy, I don't believe the screen shots are critical as to the clarification. However, if any Zenimax employee would like to see the screen shots I will be happy to supply them. The GameMaster in question refused to name his supervisor or let me communicate with the supervisor, but stated that the supervisor agreed with his position.

1. Is casting spells at a bank allowed? If not, where is notice posted that players should not cast spells at the bank. I was told to not cast any spells at the bank yet I see people do it all the time.
2. If casting spells at the bank is allowed, is casting 6 spells while testing equipment considered spamming? If 6 spells is not spamming, what amount of spells could reasonably be considered spamming? If it's not the number of spells, but the casting AT players that matters, does breath of life qualify as harassment when cast 6 times at a bank?
3. What is the best way to escalate an issue when a player disagrees with a GameMaster, but agrees to comply until a review can be made? How can a player be certain that the matter will not simply be referred back to the GameMaster with whom the player disagrees?

I'm really hoping this experience was not an example of the customer service Zenimax provides as a whole.

Please advise.

Akarius Alexios

Ourorboros · January 2015

People do cast a lot in banks, but people complain about it as well. I have no idea what official policy is, but your post should be a good way to find out. It seems obvious you meant no harm and want to be a good citizen of Tamriel. Good luck. I'll be looking the the official response.

Pavlina20 · January 2015

It is pretty annoying in the bank. We are all in a small area. Maybe try it outside the bank next time? Ive asked people to stop and usually just get harasssed.

Razzak · January 2015

Put that GM on your ignore list.

Dominoid · January 2015

It is routine for people trying to intentionally irritate people to spam spells at the bank, crafting stations and especially dye stations. He was simply cleaning that up and you got caught in it. Not that you should have known it was irritating to other players, but it was. I'm sure the GM hears all the time from spammers, "I was just testing some things." Just move on man.

KhajitFurTrader · January 2015

I would be interested to know how the OP knew it was an official ZOS GM who was telling him off, since they usually don't watch things proactively, but only react to complaints, and this almost never happens immediately. At the very least the request to escalate the matter should have been granted without argument.

Akarius_Alexios wrote: »

I was immediately contacted by a GameMaster who told me not to spam.

So tell me, did you see the hallmarks of an official GM in your conversation with him? Otherwise I'd assume that you were being fooled by an imposter, which in itself is a violation of the CoC. Please refrain from posting names, or screenshots with visible names here, because naming and shaming isn't allowed either.

xMovingTarget · January 2015

There is nothing in the ToS that says do not spam abilities. You are allowed to cast non targeted spells wherever you feel like. Its not forbidden nor is it a bannable offence.
Dont you worry, you can spam your BoL as much as you like. Zenimax will never "harrass" you about it. Other players on the other hand might do

Gyudan · January 2015

@Akarius_Alexios: GMs supposedly have a [Z] icon before their name. Maybe you could post the screenshot of the exchange after editing out the exact name but keeping the [Z] icon.
@ZOS_GaryA

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

Maybe test your armor someplace besides the bank?

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

I would be interested to know how the OP knew it was an official ZOS GM who was telling him off, since they usually don't watch things proactively, but only react to complaints, and this almost never happens immediately. At the very least the request to escalate the matter should have been granted without argument.

I am in agreement that an escalation path is appropriate in any customer service situation. It's how companies keep their customer complaints heard and their customer service providers in check. While the escalation doesn't need to be immediate - it should exist.

KhajitFurTrader wrote: »

Akarius_Alexios wrote: »

I was immediately contacted by a GameMaster who told me not to spam.

So tell me, did you see the hallmarks of an official GM in your conversation with him? Otherwise I'd assume that you were being fooled by an imposter, which in itself is a violation of the CoC. Please refrain from posting names, or screenshots with visible names here, because naming and shaming isn't allowed either.

Yes, the GM had [z] in front of his name. It was most certainly a GM.

As to naming and shaming -- we're not talking about another player. We're talking about a Zenimax agent dictating company policy as to the code of conduct in this game. It would only be shameful if the policy dictated by this GM was incorrect and his actions abusive. Otherwise, I'd simply be passing on a policy Zenimax has created. It would be like me re-posting a forum message by a GM concerning a topic or question. I'm not naming and shaming them, I'm providing policy or answers. In order to avoid a red herring on naming and shaming, I've left the screen shots out so that the questions in my original post can be answered without a side issue becoming the main issue.

It is my opinion that under no circumstances should the casting of a total of 6 spells at midnight in a bank with less than 20 people (Grahtwood has two banks in a massive room) be considered spamming. Nor should threats to take action against a customer's account be issued for casting a total of six spells. Nor should a GM tell the player they are no longer allowed to cast any spells at the bank. If such a policy does exist and is enforced then the players should receive notice of this policy upon entering a banking area -- instead of the notice coming from a GM threatening to take action against the account.

If that is clearly not the policy on spamming and that is not the way customer service is to respond then I can simply move on and ignore the GM on this issue. Should I test my healing around players in the future and I am harassed, I can simply link this discussion and move on. At this point I'm over the terrible customer service I received. I just want clarification so that I can know the policy and the direction Zenimax is taking this MMO.

Lynnessa · January 2015

Spamming is a relative term; if someone reported you for spamming, then to that person, yes, six spells was spamming. I bet the policy has something in it like "It's spamming if other players report it as such."

I agree about the escalation thing, but other than that it kind of sounds like the gamemaster was just doing their job. Just a matter of wrong place,wrong time for you.

Sharee · January 2015

ZOS cannot possibly have a specialized policy for every single activity a player may be doing that would somehow be frowned upon. Therefore they have GM's telling players when some behavior is not condoned.

He did not ban your account, he asked you to stop. At which point you should have told him "okay" and the matter should have been over.

But no, you had to escalate it. Why? Is casting AOE spells on an enclosed area with 20 other players who might be annoyed by it really that important for you?

Lynnessa · January 2015

Sharee wrote: »

ZOS cannot possibly have a specialized policy for every single activity a player may be doing that would somehow be frowned upon.

I think OP is talking about a spam policy. If I am not mistaken, OP is of the (correct) opinion that customer service reps really shouldn't be just making things up as they go. I agree that OP might have taken this a tad personally, but I think many of us would have.

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

Gyudan wrote: »

@Akarius_Alexios: GMs supposedly have a [Z] icon before their name. Maybe you could post the screenshot of the exchange after editing out the exact name but keeping the [Z] icon.
@ZOS_GaryA

If anyone at Zenimax wants the screen shots I can provide them. If they want me to post them here with the GM's name removed -- I can do that as well. I don't think they are necessary for Zenimax to answer my policy questions but if Zenimax wants them posted I will do so.

I have been pulling different gear sets and testing healing and adjusting my sets at the bank since this game started. I have never had an issue. If a player were to message me and tell me it hurt their eyes, they were hung over and it was like God shouting in their ear, or whatever -- I'd just move across the room to the other bank. Some people are sensitive and I get that. This was six spells and a GM starts pushing around a paying customer.

It's like me walking into a starbucks, paying for a coffee, sitting down and beginning to sip it.

A starbucks employee walks over and says, "Sir, the other customers heard you sip your coffee six times. Please, no more sipping in the restaurant."

But I only sipped like everyone else who sipped! I wasn't any louder.

"I know sir, but it is harassing the other customers and spamming sips. If you do not stop, I will remove you from the store."

It was only six sips and this place is dedicated to sipping coffee. Let me speak to your manager.

"Sir, I'm the one assigned to handle this issue. I can't give you my manager's name or a means to contact him, but he would agree with me."

I look around the room and I see two types of people. Those who think taking 6 sips in starbucks should be reasonable and they continue to try to sneak sips behind their coat. The second type of people think anything a starbucks employee asks of a paying customer to do is reasonable -- so they are drinking their coffee through straws.

I just want to sip my coffee in peace.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

This isnt starbucks. Its a video game. The GM asked you not to do something and you threw a fit. Grow up follow the rules. If you want to test stuff find someplace besides the bank to do it. Simple.

kelly.medleyb14_ESO · January 2015

Akarius_Alexios wrote: »

Hello,

I was recently in Grahtwood bank working on some equipment. I had a set of armor created, but had not applied enchants, food buffs, or assigned my character stats (recently reset). I decided to see how many breath of life heals I could cast before running out of magicka before I added any stats, food, or enchants.

I cast 6 breath of life spells. I'm hoping I can at least double that with the increases I planned.

I was immediately contacted by a GameMaster who told me not to spam. I told the GameMaster that I was not spamming anyone, but that I had cast a total of 6 spells while testing an armor set. The GameMaster indicated that I was disruptive for casting the 6 spells and that spamming was not allowed. I disagreed and asked for the issue to be escalated. The GameMaster refused. He asked that I not cast any spells at the bank and threatened to take action against my account if I did cast any further spells at the bank.

I complied with his request, but indicated I would be taking the matter to the forums for clarification of policy and hopefully some retraining for this GameMaster. I took screenshots of the conversation and had originally planned to post them so that there would be no question as to the conversation that took place. As my question is to policy, I don't believe the screen shots are critical as to the clarification. However, if any Zenimax employee would like to see the screen shots I will be happy to supply them. The GameMaster in question refused to name his supervisor or let me communicate with the supervisor, but stated that the supervisor agreed with his position.

1. Is casting spells at a bank allowed? If not, where is notice posted that players should not cast spells at the bank. I was told to not cast any spells at the bank yet I see people do it all the time.
2. If casting spells at the bank is allowed, is casting 6 spells while testing equipment considered spamming? If 6 spells is not spamming, what amount of spells could reasonably be considered spamming? If it's not the number of spells, but the casting AT players that matters, does breath of life qualify as harassment when cast 6 times at a bank?
3. What is the best way to escalate an issue when a player disagrees with a GameMaster, but agrees to comply until a review can be made? How can a player be certain that the matter will not simply be referred back to the GameMaster with whom the player disagrees?

I'm really hoping this experience was not an example of the customer service Zenimax provides as a whole.

Please advise.

Akarius Alexios

Sounds to me like he was bored and felt like bullying someone or that they are just making up rules as they go.

Elsonso · January 2015

Casting 6 spells like that in the bank at midnight with 20 people around is spamming abilities and it is disruptive.

The GM was correct to pull you off to the side and ask you not to do that.

At best, you were behaving rudely, twice, and you don't seem to get that.

All you had to do was say that it would not happen again, and then not do that ever again. You did not even need to apologize. You certainly did not need to go on the offensive. Your response earned you a note in your account.

Edit: I am glad that the GMs are coming down on people who do this. Someone was doing that in the Sentinel bank yesterday.

Ramtaku · January 2015

I have dealt with a lot of customer service issues in my life and understand you feel that you were dealt with unfairly.

No game of this scope can write a policy for everything players can possibly do in every possible settling.

Some things are irritating to the majority and GMs are there to represent the
majority at a "ground" level.

What you were doing is somewhat like taking flash pictures in a crowded low light setting, over and over again, or talking loudly on a cell phone in a restaurant. You can't go to jail for it and most places aren't going to hand you a notice saying they're going to kick you out if you do it, but a waiter or manager is likely to ask you to stop and maybe threaten to kick you out if you don't.

I understand you weren't deliberately griefing; however, you were being inconsiderate of other people's game experience. Testing your mana capacity for casting a spell multiple times is something that should be done outside.

Would you have put on two chants and then tested again to see if you could do 8, and again, and again until you got the twelve?

On a basic level you were being rude, and it was appropriate for the GM to intervene.

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This isnt starbucks. Its a video game. The GM asked you not to do something and you threw a fit. Grow up follow the rules. If you want to test stuff find someplace besides the bank to do it. Simple.

No, this most certainly isn't starbucks. That was an analogy meant to show my issue in other terms so that it could be compared and contrasted.

You don't need to tell me to 'grow up'. It adds nothing to the discussion. It is interesting you state to follow the rules. In this case, what is the rule? Whatever any given GM states them to be? In my case, the rule that was enforced is that I could not cast a single spell at the bank from that point forward. You have never cast a single spell at the bank? Ever?

What this boils down to is whether a paying customer (that's all of us) should have their account threatened for casting 6 spells because 6 spells bothered another player. This happened to take place at a bank. Because the GM was quoting code of conduct policy that is not bank specific -- it could have been anywhere. Get a new sword in a public delve and want to give it a few swings? Not so fast, one of the players there doesn't like you swinging it 6 times. Amazed with all the cool emotes in the game? Just don't try 6 of them near other players at a guild vendor. Am I the only one who sees the absurdity of this position?

It's not like I did not comply with the GMs request. I was careful not to cast a single spell at the bank after my interaction with the GM.

An official response from Zenimax would be very much appreciated.

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

Ramtaku wrote: »

[...]
What you were doing is somewhat like taking flash pictures in a crowded low light setting, over and over again, or talking loudly on a cell phone in a restaurant. You can't go to jail for it and most places aren't going to hand you a notice saying they're going to kick you out if you do it, but a waiter or manager is likely to ask you to stop and maybe threaten to kick you out if you don't.

I understand you weren't deliberately griefing; however, you were being inconsiderate of other people's game experience. Testing your mana capacity for casting a spell multiple times is something that should be done outside.
[...]

So it is your position that this only occurred because it was at a bank. That banks hold a special (clearly unstated) rule about casting that other locations do not? If that is the case, why aren't players notified of this rule? Better yet, why are players even allowed to cast any spells, use any abilities, or any emotes near the bank? If this is the case, why does Zenimax 'spam' us with NPC conversations at the bank which we can't disable without an addon?

Breath of life is a very tame spell that is neither bright or loud. It's also instant cast. Six seconds of spell casting should not be considered spam under any circumstances in an MMO. I understand your position, but respectfully disagree with it.

Nazon_Katts · January 2015

Akarius_Alexios wrote: »

Gyudan wrote: »

@Akarius_Alexios: GMs supposedly have a [Z] icon before their name. Maybe you could post the screenshot of the exchange after editing out the exact name but keeping the [Z] icon.
@ZOS_GaryA

If anyone at Zenimax wants the screen shots I can provide them. If they want me to post them here with the GM's name removed -- I can do that as well. I don't think they are necessary for Zenimax to answer my policy questions but if Zenimax wants them posted I will do so.

I have been pulling different gear sets and testing healing and adjusting my sets at the bank since this game started. I have never had an issue. If a player were to message me and tell me it hurt their eyes, they were hung over and it was like God shouting in their ear, or whatever -- I'd just move across the room to the other bank. Some people are sensitive and I get that. This was six spells and a GM starts pushing around a paying customer.

It's like me walking into a starbucks, paying for a coffee, sitting down and beginning to sip it.

A starbucks employee walks over and says, "Sir, the other customers heard you sip your coffee six times. Please, no more sipping in the restaurant."

But I only sipped like everyone else who sipped! I wasn't any louder.

"I know sir, but it is harassing the other customers and spamming sips. If you do not stop, I will remove you from the store."

It was only six sips and this place is dedicated to sipping coffee. Let me speak to your manager.

"Sir, I'm the one assigned to handle this issue. I can't give you my manager's name or a means to contact him, but he would agree with me."

I look around the room and I see two types of people. Those who think taking 6 sips in starbucks should be reasonable and they continue to try to sneak sips behind their coat. The second type of people think anything a starbucks employee asks of a paying customer to do is reasonable -- so they are drinking their coffee through straws.

I just want to sip my coffee in peace.

Ah, I see where your problem is.

Everyone at Starbucks is just sipping their coffees, indeed. Except you and your buddies, who are gargling with it and snorting it through straws back into the cups, just to rinse and repeat that process the whole time.

Doesn't really matter how many times or even why you do that, it'll always be highly annoying to everyone else around you. Well except me maybe, but I do tend to have a sense for juvenile humor.

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

Lynnessa wrote: »

Spamming is a relative term; if someone reported you for spamming, then to that person, yes, six spells was spamming. I bet the policy has something in it like "It's spamming if other players report it as such."

I agree about the escalation thing, but other than that it kind of sounds like the gamemaster was just doing their job. Just a matter of wrong place,wrong time for you.

I agree, the term is relative. I also agree, perhaps I was at the wrong place at the wrong time. I do feel that once I explained the totality of my six spells to the GM that I should have received a different response. "Please be careful not to cast a lot of spells at the bank too frequently." To which I could have responded that I did not and would not and thank him for his time. Instead I was told not to cast at the bank at all. If that is really the policy just remove casting at banks. This would save in customer service costs (GMs could then handle other issues) and customer dissatisfaction (both those being accused of spamming 6 spells and those who are sensitive to those 6 spells).

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · January 2015

Akarius_Alexios wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This isnt starbucks. Its a video game. The GM asked you not to do something and you threw a fit. Grow up follow the rules. If you want to test stuff find someplace besides the bank to do it. Simple.

No, this most certainly isn't starbucks. That was an analogy meant to show my issue in other terms so that it could be compared and contrasted.

You don't need to tell me to 'grow up'. It adds nothing to the discussion. It is interesting you state to follow the rules. In this case, what is the rule? Whatever any given GM states them to be? In my case, the rule that was enforced is that I could not cast a single spell at the bank from that point forward. You have never cast a single spell at the bank? Ever?

What this boils down to is whether a paying customer (that's all of us) should have their account threatened for casting 6 spells because 6 spells bothered another player. This happened to take place at a bank. Because the GM was quoting code of conduct policy that is not bank specific -- it could have been anywhere. Get a new sword in a public delve and want to give it a few swings? Not so fast, one of the players there doesn't like you swinging it 6 times. Amazed with all the cool emotes in the game? Just don't try 6 of them near other players at a guild vendor. Am I the only one who sees the absurdity of this position?

It's not like I did not comply with the GMs request. I was careful not to cast a single spell at the bank after my interaction with the GM.

An official response from Zenimax would be very much appreciated.

They already gave you an official response. The GM said do not cast multiple spells "testing stuff" inside the bank. Do it outside.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2015

I was kicked out of the game and had to relog the other day. I had bought 5 items at a guild vendor's kiosk, and the system said i was spamming.

I insist that Zenimax states the official policy of TESO regarding purchasing at kiosks. Possibly apologizes publicly and why not pay me some compensation in hard dollars.

/Sarcasm inside.

NB : if you can't understand by yourself how ennoying repeated spell casting at banks can be to other players and how different it is from emotes, then I don't see how any further statement from ZOS or anyone can help you understanding it.

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

Nazon_Katts wrote: »

Ah, I see where your problem is.

Everyone at Starbucks is just sipping their coffees, indeed. Except you and your buddies, who are gargling with it and snorting it through straws back into the cups, just to rinse and repeat that process the whole time.

Doesn't really matter how many times or even why you do that, it'll always be highly annoying to everyone else around you. Well except me maybe, but I do tend to have a sense for juvenile humor.

That is gross! haha.

Pretend you're designing this game and setting up customer service. You allow casting at banks. You might even have NPCs who cast at banks. You certainly have NPC Khajiit talking repeatedly about his cub sister in South Port. Then one of your customer service reps tells a player to stop casting at the bank entirely -- even though the player only cast 6 spells total over a 6 second period in the last 45 minutes they were at the bank working on gear. The customer service rep tells the player they will have action taken against their account if they cast any spells at the bank.

Do you see the disconnect in design, implementation and support?

Elvinfire · January 2015

I'm in complete agreement with the original poster here, and I figure the manager that would have agreed with them was their mother, who was busy. Get it?

Akarius_Alexios · January 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

They already gave you an official response. The GM said do not cast multiple spells "testing stuff" inside the bank. Do it outside.

That's not the response I received. I was told not to cast at the bank at all. I'm attempting to escalate this issue as there is no escalation path provided in-game. So I'm really looking for a response to my policy questions by a support rep in the forums.

Do you agree the bank is strictly a no casting zone? If so, shouldn't that be posted somewhere for players to know especially given the fact the game doesn't limit casting at banks?

ZOS_MichelleA · January 2015

Hello, @Akarius_Alexios. We understand that sometimes players will disagree with or have additional questions about an in-game action taken by our Gamemasters. That said, we ask that players please not come to the forums to post about these - the Community and Social Teams are unable to help with these concerns.

If you or anyone else ever has a question about something which has occurred in game with one of our employees, we highly encourage you to please submit a ticket by typing /help while in game. Our team will be happy to clarify and answer any questions you may have. As this thread is not the proper location to request further information from a GM, we will be closing it. Thank you for your understanding.