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Alternative ideas to improve the ultimate generation system in 1.6

Koensol
Koensol
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I think the new ultimate generation system by ZOS that will be implemented in 1.6 is lame and stupid, because it has zero logic and seems like an easy cop-out. It also doesn't reward "skillful" play as in for example: dodging when needing to dodge, blocking power attacks from boss, interrupting that annoying healer, blocking that shield charging mob or whatever else that requires thought or reaction. It’s just: Use l/h attack and you’re done… I think there are changes that can be made to balance it out across players, while also making it a more rewarding system for people who play the game to the fullest. And I do think that a change is needed, because the current system is not ideal as well as we all know.

In this thread, I’d love to gather suggestions from people who think likewise so we might inspire ZOS to come up with something more creative in the future. My idea is described below.



I tried coming up with something else that I would personally rather see. I’m not saying this idea is perfect and the “must have”, but I just wanted to come up with an idea that is more in the direction that I want it to go. To makes this direction more clear I will try to bring it into more detail below.

My basic idea
So what it comes down to is the following. Instead of having just the ultimate generation over time that ZOS is aiming for in the upcoming 1.6 patch, I would like ZOS to expand on that by rewarding players for thinking, being aware, reacting and using the games mechanics in a way that it helps them and their group survive and do better. Therefore I have put together a list of things that will generate a set amount of ultimate points over time, and another list of things that will generate a set amount of ultimate points instantly. I have tried to keep this evenly attractive and useful for the different roles.

What will specifically generate ultimate points?
There’s a couple of things I think will be fair to categorize under “ultimate generating aspects”. This is varied across aspects of play for healers, tanks and dps. Please note that the ultimate generation enhancing passives and morphs on skills would remain as is and continue to function.

This will generate a set amount ultimate over time:
- Doing damage
- Healing
- Blocking damage

To make sure ultimate generation is not too hard and not too situational, there would be a flat amount of ultimate added over time by simply doing damage, healing, or blocking damage. These will not stack. I’d rather have this generation over time be triggered by any damage, instead of just l/h attacks, to prevent it from becoming tedious. The amount would also be the same for single target and AoE situations. For healing this would be restricted to combat only situations, so pre combat ultimate generation is out of the question. I also added blocking to the list, because in some situations a tank has to use block for a longer period of time. This will be expanded upon below in different aspects that will individually grant a set amount of ultimate points to the player instantly, on top of the over time ultimate generation.

This will generate a set amount of ultimate points instantly:
- Interrupting
- Blocking power attacks
- Blocking shield charges by mobs
- Dodging out of AoE effects, power attacks or charges
- Exploiting stunned/incapacitated enemies
- Using CC
- Using group synergies
- Healing low health targets, below 25%
- Cleansing allies
- Resurrecting allies
- Redirecting damage, using the new guard ability
- Using sneak attacks
- Killing enemies

So, all of the above will be available to players, to generate a set amount of ultimate points each time they do one of these things. These would be the situational extras to the ultimate generation over time, described above. These things would encourage players to use the games mechanics in a meaningful way. I wouldn’t know how many points would need to be granted to be honest. This aspect of balance will come down to math calculations. I’m sure ZOS would be able to figure this out, right .... right? Please notice that in the above there will be some things for each role specifically, and some things every role will use.

Conclusion
This list could be expanded or reduced, based upon what is balanced or not. The most important thing for me is that ultimate generation makes sense and that it rewards playing the game and using its actual mechanics. I’m directing towards something similar as the Finesse System ZOS had pre-launch. Something I was really excited about.
Edited by Koensol on December 31, 2014 2:43PM
  • AshySamurai
    AshySamurai
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    TBH I'm fine with new system, but I like your idea.
    Make sweetrolls, not nerfs!
  • Cuyler
    Cuyler
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    I want to be able to charge ultimate out of combat. Go figure.
    Guild: STACK n BURN (gm) PC - NA
    CP 810 18 Maxed Characters:
    "How hard can u guar?" - Rafishul[/spoiler]
  • eventide03b14a_ESO
    eventide03b14a_ESO
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    Improvements to ESO:
    • Remove block casting. You either attack or you defend. You don't get to do both effectively at the same time.
    • Remove AoE blocking. If you choose to stand there instead of dodging or interrupting you don't get to mitigate most of the damage.
    • Blocking spells should cost magicka not stamina and should require a point into a passive, probably something in the Mage Guild line.
    • AoEs should have no cap. Including Mass Hysteria which should just have a chance to resist the fear instead.
    • Ultimates should only be rewarded based on skill of play. You should not be able to fill up the meter by standing there healing people out of combat.

    I'm sorry but this game is a faceroll. I had high hopes that this was going to offer more dynamic game play akin to the rest of the franchise. How disappointing to find out that all I have to do is hold block and spam a single AoE to take out 99% of the mobs in this game. I have actually lost my motivation to play as a result. PvP isn't any better either.
    :trollin:
  • tinythinker
    tinythinker
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  • DeLindsay
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    I think everyone should stop speculating about what the changes might do to the game and just wait to see. Who knows, ZoS might actually have a handle on the game by now and may know what's best for ESO. It's not even on PTS yet to test, give it a rest.
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    DeLindsay wrote: »
    I think everyone should stop speculating about what the changes might do to the game and just wait to see. Who knows, ZoS might actually have a handle on the game by now and may know what's best for ESO. It's not even on PTS yet to test, give it a rest.
    I don't really need to see it in practice to tell its a dumbed down, tedious, illogical and unrewarding system. I prefer a creative solution to the current problem. There's nothing wrong with that.

  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    Koensol wrote: »
    DeLindsay wrote: »
    I think everyone should stop speculating about what the changes might do to the game and just wait to see. Who knows, ZoS might actually have a handle on the game by now and may know what's best for ESO. It's not even on PTS yet to test, give it a rest.
    I don't really need to see it in practice to tell its a dumbed down, tedious, illogical and unrewarding system. I prefer a creative solution to the current problem. There's nothing wrong with that.
    You're right, the current system of dropping SoM and Batswarm every 6 seconds it totally "rewarding". And from a Tank perspective in PvE the proposed changes to generation is fantastic.
  • Koensol
    Koensol
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    DeLindsay wrote: »
    Koensol wrote: »
    DeLindsay wrote: »
    I think everyone should stop speculating about what the changes might do to the game and just wait to see. Who knows, ZoS might actually have a handle on the game by now and may know what's best for ESO. It's not even on PTS yet to test, give it a rest.
    I don't really need to see it in practice to tell its a dumbed down, tedious, illogical and unrewarding system. I prefer a creative solution to the current problem. There's nothing wrong with that.
    You're right, the current system of dropping SoM and Batswarm every 6 seconds it totally "rewarding". And from a Tank perspective in PvE the proposed changes to generation is fantastic.
    Sigh... if you'd read the OP you would know I already said the current system is far from ideal. And please elaborate on your last sentence.

  • DeLindsay
    DeLindsay
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    Koensol wrote: »
    And please elaborate on your last sentence.
    No problem. As a Tank in PvE while tanking a single Boss most can only drop an Ultimate once or twice per fight (shorter than 5 minute duration). With the proposed changes we will be able to drop an Ultimate roughly once per minute, and probably a little faster since at least some of the current abilities/passives that generate additional Ultimate will continue to do so under the changed system. Also, ZoS has made no claims that they are removing or changing the sets/passives that reduce Ultimate costs so we may very well still have that angle to reduce the duration between each Ultimate.

    Hell it's entirely possible that players will still be able to overlap certain Ultimates after the change if they have just the right build for it, like many do now. But I do believe gone are the days of dropping ANY Ultimate every 6 seconds, which is a very VERY good thing.
  • Rev Rielle
    Rev Rielle
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    I agree. In general I think ultimate should be awarded for reacting (apt blocking, dodging, interrupting etc) in combat like you mention in your opening post.

    I do also think however that getting the balance right of ultimate generation across the board (across classes and PvE/PvP) is a very difficult thing to do. So I'm just going to wait and see and experience what the changes are actually like before making my mind up on the new system one way or another.

    Whether the new system makes ultimate generation faster or slower I think is largely irrelevant, as long as it is consistent for all.
    Edited by Rev Rielle on December 31, 2014 11:37PM
    If you can be anything, be kind.
  • Joejudas
    Joejudas
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    @DeLindsay‌ Lol you think dropping ults that quickly is a bad thing as a PvE tank huh....just curious....what's your best completion time on SO ??
  • miahq
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    Frankly, no one should be dropping ultimate every minute. That sort of defeats the purpose of it being some ultimate, special move. It's not an ultimate special move if you're using it ever minute. It's just... A common old move. If I don't like it just being from light/heavy attacks, it's probably because they started out saying it would be reward for good play. Their system had problems, so instead of fixing it they basically just said, "screw it, we give up."

    As far as fixes go, just make it about chaining different abilities, like blocking or breaking a cc then successfully counter striking before getting hit. It's not really that hard to keep track of that stuff, games have been doing it for over a decade.
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