-=Stealth is massively broken=-

Teargrants · December 2014

DDuke wrote: »

In fact, magicka builds have access to far better burst damage while still having shields/heals on the bar (Curse->Crystal Frags->(instant) Crystal Frags->Endless Fury, Crippling Grasp->(while previous is still traveling)Ambush->Soul Harvest->Impale) etc

Um, lol no that Sorc rotation will not give you crazy burst.

1. Crystal frags can't proc itself, it's easily dodgeable/blockable/reflectable.
2. Curse is only once every 3.5 sec, for about 500 if you have max spell dmg.
3. Curse gets overwritten by any other Curse from anyone else.

Adding in Crushy Shock to that is where the high burst Sorcs come from. But DKs make it a sub optimal build to run from a utility stand point.

DDuke · December 2014

Teargrants wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

In fact, magicka builds have access to far better burst damage while still having shields/heals on the bar (Curse->Crystal Frags->(instant) Crystal Frags->Endless Fury, Crippling Grasp->(while previous is still traveling)Ambush->Soul Harvest->Impale) etc

Um, lol no that Sorc rotation will not give you crazy burst.

1. Crystal frags can't proc itself, it's easily dodgeable/blockable/reflectable.
2. Curse is only once every 3.5 sec, for about 500 if you have max spell dmg.
3. Curse gets overwritten by any other Curse from anyone else.

Adding in Crushy Shock to that is where the high burst Sorcs come from. But DKs make it a sub optimal build to run from a utility stand point.

Ah, might've been Crushing Shock->Crystal Frags instead, thanks for correcting me :P

Aeratus · December 2014

A magicka sorc ganker will have fragments pre-proc'ed. This can be done easily such as by turning mage light on an off. Curse is cast after the fragment flies off. If the curse procs another fragment, then the target could very well go down from the next mages wrath explosion if he fell from a horse or doesn't have any countermeasures.

Teargrants · December 2014

Anyone will die if they get ganked off their horse, it's not really something you should use in a discussion of balance.

I'm looking forward to the champion system perks for horse riding.

danno8 · December 2014

Invisibility not breaking on any damage would be an easy way to make nightblade invisibility much smoother.

Sneaking can break on damage, that makes sense since Nightblade efficiency is not nearly as tied to opening strike as it is to Dark Cloak in a stealth build.

DDuke · December 2014

danno816_ESO wrote: »

Invisibility not breaking on any damage would be an easy way to make nightblade invisibility much smoother.

Sneaking can break on damage, that makes sense since Nightblade efficiency is not nearly as tied to opening strike as it is to Dark Cloak in a stealth build.

I agree that dark cloak should be buffed, but I'm still not sure about making it not break on any damage. There are magicka builds that are able to keep it up 24/7, so that could get extremely broken quick (maybe if they gave it the "bolt escape treatment" this could be a viable solution).

I find the biggest problem that is currently preventing melee stealth builds to be Magelight & detection potions.

Your normal detection radius is 4m behind, 15m infront of target, but with Magelight this becomes 27m infront & 16m behind, making melee stealth builds virtually impossible in environment where atleast one target is running Magelight.
That's not all, it gets even more ridiculous with detection potions. With detection potions, you've got a detection radius of 30m behind & 41m infront of you (Snipe range). Good luck sneaking up on someone with that up.

What I'd do (on top of buffing/fixing Cloak), is create a new skill that improves stealth (preferably available to all classes) & allows you to truly build around the stealth gameplay.

E.g. "Muffle - increases your stealth radius by 26m"
-
This would essentially counter a stealth detection potion/magelight & allow melee stealth builds to exist.

Morphs could buff your next stealth attack as well.

E.g. "your next stealth attack causes your target to bleed for X damage over Y seconds), or "your next stealth attack silences your opponent for 4 seconds".

This would bring some of the much needed synergetic elements & flavour to stealth.

Just some thoughts

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2014

Yeah I stated this before as well on TF,

"I want a counter for the counters, like an Ability to cast a patch of Darkness on the enemy (that moves with the target), so MageLight doesn’t work for a time (10-15 secs) and the target would also get a slight debuff (nothing overpowered)..

Or something like a smoke Bomb, like used in Assassin’s creed games, that stuns the enemy in a AOE area for a short duration (like 1-2 sec’s) and buffs sneak speed by like 20%-25% for a short duration, so you can escape while using Shadow Cloak to get out of combat..

Or an ability that will add extra layers/distance to sneak (Like the Nightshade set does), maybe the Muffle Spellcrafting spell they showed in the Spellcrafting vid will help out some..(which of course is way into the future..)"

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/sneak-attack-short-synopsis-proposed-changes/page/3/#post-561600

DDuke · December 2014

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO wrote: »

Yeah I stated this before as well on TF,

"I want a counter for the counters, like an Ability to cast a patch of Darkness on the enemy (that moves with the target), so MageLight doesn’t work for a time (10-15 secs) and the target would also get a slight debuff (nothing overpowered)..

Or something like a smoke Bomb, like used in Assassin’s creed games, that stuns the enemy in a AOE area for a short duration (like 1-2 sec’s) and buffs sneak speed by like 20%-25% for a short duration, so you can escape while using Shadow Cloak to get out of combat..

Or an ability that will add extra layers/distance to sneak (Like the Nightshade set does), maybe the Muffle Spellcrafting spell they showed in the Spellcrafting vid will help out some..(which of course is way into the future..)"

http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/sneak-attack-short-synopsis-proposed-changes/page/3/#post-561600

Yeah, I read that :P

All great ideas, I just hope it wont take them until Dark Brotherhood/Thieves Guild to fix stealth gameplay, that is going to be far too late for me atleast, considering they are at minimum 4-5 months away.

With their track record, I'm also a bit afraid we're just going to get more heals/dmg shields with DB/Thieves Guild.
"Muffle - gain 10k damage shield upon exiting stealth" I'm calling it now.

RinaldoGandolphi · December 2014

Guys, what your suggesting would make stealth so OP no one would run anything else. The game would become The Elder Stealth Online with Bows.

Magelight is not cheap, it costs TWO ability slots(if you want to keep it up swapping weapons) and 5% of your max magic. Compare that to the cost of cloak or any other ability its not even close.

Magelight is the only skill in the game directly designed to counter stealth and everyone has access to it. It requires you to give up other offensive or defensive active abilities in order to use it.

You have to run it on both bars unless you like recasting it everytime you swap weapons.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2014

DDuke wrote: »

With their track record, I'm also a bit afraid we're just going to get more heals/dmg shields with DB/Thieves Guild.
"Muffle - gain 10k damage shield upon exiting stealth" I'm calling it now.

I hear you, that would be just scary and wrong.. LOL

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2014

woodsro wrote: »

The game would become The Elder Stealth Online

The Elder Stealth Online.....Hmmm This one kinda likes that... LOL

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · December 2014

woodsro wrote: »

Magelight is the only skill in the game directly designed to counter stealth and everyone has access to it. It requires you to give up other offensive or defensive active abilities in order to use it.

Nope, you have Detection potions and soon to have a Ranged Flare to shoot in all directions.. So Magelight isn't the only thing to use...

PS- I use detection potions all the time in Cyrodiil..it's awesome..

Darkonflare15 · December 2014

woodsro wrote: »

Guys, what your suggesting would make stealth so OP no one would run anything else. The game would become The Elder Stealth Online with Bows.

Magelight is not cheap, it costs TWO ability slots(if you want to keep it up swapping weapons) and 5% of your max magic. Compare that to the cost of cloak or any other ability its not even close.

Magelight is the only skill in the game directly designed to counter stealth and everyone has access to it. It requires you to give up other offensive or defensive active abilities in order to use it.

You have to run it on both bars unless you like recasting it everytime you swap weapons.

What so stealth players cannot have a turn on the wheel. We already had Elder mages online because La and destro/restro. Now we are at Elder Shields online because plenty of people are running around sword and board plus using damage shields. Its probably going to be Elder Armaments online thanks to "heavy armor" finally becoming true heavy armor in the next patch. But who knows maybe we will get Elder stealth online.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

DDuke · December 2014

woodsro wrote: »

Guys, what your suggesting would make stealth so OP no one would run anything else. The game would become The Elder Stealth Online with Bows.

Magelight is not cheap, it costs TWO ability slots(if you want to keep it up swapping weapons) and 5% of your max magic. Compare that to the cost of cloak or any other ability its not even close.

Magelight is the only skill in the game directly designed to counter stealth and everyone has access to it. It requires you to give up other offensive or defensive active abilities in order to use it.

You have to run it on both bars unless you like recasting it everytime you swap weapons.

Well, thank you for your very constructive feedback

How would you fix cloaks & make stealth (especially melee) builds viable in this game?

Note: while Magelight does cost a slot, so would any stealth skills

(Magelight also increases your crit chance and/or reduces stealth damage taken by a lot)
Note 2: if people are concerned about Snipe becoming OP, make these affect melee skills only