@ZOS - what should vet players be doing until 1.6?

Xjcon · December 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Well, I plan on complaining about other players being put on an even footing with me. I mean, really. The nerve of some people!

On a more serious note: if your enjoyment of a game is predicated on your having a headstart over others, then you weren't really enjoying the game much.

So sick of reading these idiotic comments. You think having 14 veteran levels being wiped away without compensation to be made equal to someone who is level 50 is "even footing"? You really think getting some small ratio of the XP earned from vet levels (not 1 for 1 just some ratio up to a cap) is getting a headstart? Why don't you delete your characters at the start of 1.6 and start over so you wont have a headstart on those new players who start the game fresh when 1.6 launches. That's essentially what is being asked of vet players.

You have a head start! It's called game time experience over the new players, there is lots to learn with the new system and I'm sure you will find a way to get an edge over them quickly enough. The only v1 players that you wont have an edge over is probably a VR14 players alt.

Satiar · December 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

Now that @ZOS_GinaBruno has given additional clarity on the lack of tracking XP for vet players and the intent to not reward vet players at all for their efforts I would like to know what ZOS expects vet players to be doing for the next month or so until 1.6 goes live? If our progress doesn't count then are you suggesting we play low level alts only? What if we have no open character slots? Are you suggesting we cancel our subs temporarily? Please let us know what you expect vet players to do in a system that is going to be erased in the future with no compensation or acknowledgement of any kind.

Since killing players for exp means nothing, I'm doing all my PvP via Roleplay.

*Satiar casts negate!*

(it's very effective!)

PBpsy · December 2014

Satiar wrote: »

EQBallzz wrote: »

Now that @ZOS_GinaBruno has given additional clarity on the lack of tracking XP for vet players and the intent to not reward vet players at all for their efforts I would like to know what ZOS expects vet players to be doing for the next month or so until 1.6 goes live? If our progress doesn't count then are you suggesting we play low level alts only? What if we have no open character slots? Are you suggesting we cancel our subs temporarily? Please let us know what you expect vet players to do in a system that is going to be erased in the future with no compensation or acknowledgement of any kind.

Since killing players for exp means nothing, I'm doing all my PvP via Roleplay.

*Satiar casts negate!*

(it's very effective!)

"Impulse impulse fart .. explosion.. "

I WIN

Teargrants · December 2014

@EQBallzz‌ Lmao. Bruh, you still have all your vet levels and all other progression on your characters. You aren't 'losing' jack [snip]. And come 1.7 when they remove vet levels, your V14 gear is still there and will still maintain it's higher stats through an 'item lvl' system. The only thing we miss out on is getting more free champion points than others at the start of 1.6.

Your character isn't being destroyed.
Your gameplay experience isn't being destroyed.

If you think not being able to do vet questing again for champion points will be a disadvantage, all I can ask is do you even play this game? Grinding is and always will reward more xp (and hence champion points).

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

timidobserver · December 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

If set your bias and dislike for the CP decision aside and take a moment to think you could come up with a ton of stuff to do that would benefit you in 1.6 and 1.7. Start with gathering mats and gold to prepare for respecs and new gear.

That is true and is basically what I have been doing for the last couple weeks (if I even bother logging in) but picking flowers is not exactly compelling gameplay for an MMO charging a monthly fee.

Yeh that was just a start. As soon as your brain switches complain mode off and think mode on, you will come up with all sorts of things you can do. Things that will make you money in 1.6 and things that will help you get ahead in 1.6.

So swap whine mode off and look through the notes of what is coming in 1.6 with a "how can I cash in on this" sort of mindset.

Saddiq · December 2014

How about either helping low level players learn to become better, without complaining, or unsubbing until 1.6.

I for one as a v5 player, would love to learn about City of Ash and become better by doing so. But on the rare occasions where v14s have graced me with their sun-soaked presence, most (by NO means all) have been downright rude about the fact that, by definition, I'm not excelling in a dungeon that outranks me.

My most fun experiences in ESO have been learning from very nice, very patient, and very good teachers who enjoy making the community stronger by introducing lower-level characters to places that outrank them, in order to produce better v14s in the long run. Argonist, Preyfor, and Varnand, to name just 3 from the last couple nights of playing. Just last night I played with a couple v14s who all handsomely exhibited these traits.

Just as often, though, I've played with v14s who openly mocked me for my inability to wear v14 gear (how dare I?). I've played with 'bad v14s' who got groups killed by not understanding dungeon mechanics despite high DPS stats (and blamed lower levels who were way smarter and better players). So I know there are 'good v14s' and 'bad v14s'. I want to be a good one, but can't do that if I'm not taught by good teachers BEFORE I'm v14. Last night I had 2 teachers, one who was blunt, honest, and polite in telling me a community decision no one had told me before (healers usually shouldn't rez in vet dungeons, but heal only, leaving rezzing to dps), and another who bailed and left 3 of us at the end of the dungeon because we were all slobbering morons.

This was in Crypt of Hearts vet dungeon, and it was the first time v14s ever let me into the dungeon despite my asking many times before. They took a chance on me, I failed, but I'm a way better player today than I was yesterday because of it. Now already, but even moreso when I'll be the CS equivalent of v14, I'll be one of the 'good ones'.

So, if you've conquered all aspects of the game, in answer to your question I'd either nicely and politely teach lower levels how to be 'good players', thus increasing the amount of good players and making Cyrodiil more fun, or I'd unsub until 1.6.

And ZOS owes no one an answer on this, and they don't expect you to do anything but pay for a product you enjoy, or don't. (Not to be too snippy, maybe your question wasn't meant overly negatively).

EQBallzz · December 2014

Teargrants wrote: »

@EQBallzz‌ Lmao. Bruh, you still have all your vet levels and all other progression on your characters. You aren't 'losing' jack sht. And come 1.7 when they remove get levels, your V14 gear is still there and will still maintain it's higher stats through an 'item lvl' system. The only thing we miss out on is getting more free champion points than others at the start of 1.6.

Your character isn't being destroyed.
Your gameplay experience isn't being destroyed.

If you think not being able to do vet questing again for champion points will be a disadvantage, all I can ask is do you even play this game? Grinding is and always will reward more xp (and hence champion points).

Vet levels are going away so that is a temporary "advantage" (I don't even care about an advantage - that's not the point). A slightly higher item level on gear (that we don't even know the details of) is not remotely related to lost XP progress. Gear is easily obtained by crafting. I can craft whatever I want whenever I want. I don't want to do vet questing again. That's the point. I did that two full times already and now it's being wiped away as if it didn't happen.

My character isn't being destroyed but the millions of XP earned since hitting 50 is. Why don't they reset level 50 characters back to 0? It's less XP from 0 to 50 so wouldn't that be fair so everyone loses their progress? I realize it's hard for you to grasp this simple concept and no I'm not your "bruh".

DDuke · December 2014

Saddiq wrote: »

So, if you've conquered all aspects of the game, in answer to your question I'd either nicely and politely teach lower levels how to be 'good players', thus increasing the amount of good players and making Cyrodiil more fun, or I'd unsub until 1.6.

There's a couple of flaws in your way of thinking:

"Teaching" more people to use FOTM builds in fact leads to even less build diversity in the game and thus a less fun Cyrodiil.
The more good players there are, the worse you will be (and no one likes that), because in a competitive environment (Trials/PvP), how "good" you are is directly related to how "bad" other people are.

That's all I have to say and probably sounds horrible (but true), carry on

Saddiq · December 2014

DDuke wrote: »

"Teaching" more people to use FOTM builds in fact leads to even less build diversity in the game and thus a less fun Cyrodiil.

I certainly didn't mean teaching FOTM. In fact build didn't come up at all in the teaching I was given last night, just technique independent of build. I got a great piece of advice that I probably should have been told before but wasn't, so now I'm a slightly better player. I totally agree that more FOTM is a bad idea.

I understand what you're saying about raising the curve in a competitive system. I guess that just forces the brilliant players (I'm not being sarcastic) to become even better, so I'd maintain that's still a good thing. I'd be a little weirded out if there was an active attitude to NOT teach players to become better, mostly because zone chat and forum boards are filled with criticism of casuals, noobs, and bad players ruining this that and the other thing, esp in PVP. Perhaps that explains the quantity of unfriendly (to put it mildly) v14s I've met. My improvement makes them worse would certainly make them not want to pass on tiny pieces of wisdom.

When I get my character to a teacher's level, I've got a lot of karma-required teaching to pass on to lower level players, b/c I've had a lot of great teaching and even gifts from higher players. I'll certainly pay it forward.

Grao · December 2014

I am likely cancelling y subscription, at least till 1.6 drops or ZoS fix this latest stupidity.

Neryaz · December 2014

imo quit the game. remove your subscription. ZoS is crappying on the VR ppl sadly.

Razzak · December 2014

Considering that we have to wait 2-3 months for update 6, I will cancel my sub and wait. No point in giving them money and thus generating an impression that they are doing a good work.

WraithAzraiel · December 2014

Better question to ask would be:

What are the people who are newly V1 supposed to be doing from now til Update 6? Should they waste Cadwell's Silver and Gold now when it doesn't count for anything? Or should they wait for the Champion System to drop?

This isn't just an issue that effects V14s. You're shooting yourself in the foot and screwing yourself out of easy Champion points if you progress any farther than V1 through PvE quests.

Hasn't anyone thought of the children?!?!?!?

Razzak · December 2014

WraithAzraiel wrote: »

Better question to ask would be:

What are the people who are newly V1 supposed to be doing from now til Update 6? Should they waste Cadwell's Silver and Gold now when it doesn't count for anything? Or should they wait for the Champion System to drop?

This isn't just an issue that effects V14s. You're shooting yourself in the foot and screwing yourself out of easy Champion points if you progress any farther than V1 through PvE quests.

Hasn't anyone thought of the children?!?!?!?

Anyone but ZOS, apparently.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

Seeing as ZoS intended for the Champion system to be a long term, linear progression thing, and Cadwell's Silver/Gold are relatively short-term, I think ZoS would've tweaked EXP gain so you don't slow down dramatically when you finish Cadwell's Gold; i.e. EXP from other (repeatable) activities will be boosted to be on par with questing.

Granted I don't have a ton of confidence that they'll get it right right off the bat, but I trust them to be on the right track with regards to linear CP progression.

WraithAzraiel · December 2014

They're actually being given an advantage over you. If they have 1 veteran Character on their account and you have multiple, they'll have easier and more rapid access to further Champion points, whereas you'll have to go play a low level Vet alt that hasn't completed Cadwell's Silver or Gold. So your assumption of equal footing is moot.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Well, I plan on complaining about other players being put on an even footing with me. I mean, really. The nerve of some people!

On a more serious note: if your enjoyment of a game is predicated on your having a headstart over others, then you weren't really enjoying the game much.

I don't think that's the case as much as: when the hell did everything become so damned communist? It used to be that having other players being ahead of you was motivation to progress and get better. Now everything needs to be neat and balanced and fair so everyone has the same opportunities and starts on the same ground no matter how much effort is shown by whomever.

There's no competitive spirit anymore. It's all "I'll sit on my ass until I'm given what I deserve" Instead of going out and getting it.

We're being handcuffed. We're being forced into the slavery that is balanced mediocrity.

It's idiotic. It's asinine. It's unnecessary. It's baby'ing a generation into inepitude. It's teaching people that you don't have to go the extra mile to succeed. It's proving that mediocrity is OK. It's the bastardization of work ethic. (Yes I know it's a game but the principle still applies - effort should garner equal recompense IE: if you don't try to excel at something, you continue to suck at it)

This is just another example of how generations continue to decline in quality.

Get off my lawn, cowboy the hell up, rub some dirt on it, do work and stop expecting everything to be handed to you on a silver gorram platter.

/micdrop

WraithAzraiel · December 2014

ThatHappyCat wrote: »

Seeing as ZoS intended for the Champion system to be a long term, linear progression thing, and Cadwell's Silver/Gold are relatively short-term, I think ZoS would've tweaked EXP gain so you don't slow down dramatically when you finish Cadwell's Gold; i.e. EXP from other (repeatable) activities will be boosted to be on par with questing.

Granted I don't have a ton of confidence that they'll get it right right off the bat, but I trust them to be on the right track with regards to linear CP progression.

I agree with that hope, but we'll see. Cross your fingers and toes.

Elloa · December 2014

I'm playing the game: leveling my main and only character (i'm level Vet4 now) and doing Dungeons etc...

Gyudan · December 2014

Elloa wrote: »

I'm playing the game: leveling my main and only character (i'm level Vet4 now) and doing Dungeons etc...

@Elloa: ok but you're super slow, so you're not "wasting" that many quests!

A decent solution for everyone would be to go to Cyrodiil:
- you can do a few quests there if you really want to quest (they're pretty bad)
- clear dungeons, anchors, lorebooks and skyshards
- raise your Alliance War level to be ready for the new abilities released in update 6
- no content lost for future progression

... but not everyone likes PVP zones.

Darthryan · December 2014

SIN-X wrote: »

Checking out new mmos?

What mmos? I've been trying to find something new for awhile.

ThatHappyCat · December 2014

Gyudan wrote: »

Elloa wrote: »

I'm playing the game: leveling my main and only character (i'm level Vet4 now) and doing Dungeons etc...

@Elloa: ok but you're super slow, so you're not "wasting" that many quests!

A decent solution for everyone would be to go to Cyrodiil:
- you can do a few quests there if you really want to quest (they're pretty bad)
- clear dungeons, anchors, lorebooks and skyshards
- raise your Alliance War level to be ready for the new abilities released in update 6
- no content lost for future progression

... but not everyone likes PVP zones.

I don't like to say this as I hate buff servers, but... if you go to your alliance's buff server you can basically PvE to your heart's content with none to minimal PvP most of the time.

olemanwinter · December 2014

You people talking about leveling up alts make no sense. EVERYTHING in this game will become easier and faster for lowbies after 1.6

If you have a lvl 10 alt, why would you level him now when you can level him faster with 30 Champion points to buff him after 1.6

Slurg · December 2014

I would think that those of you who refuse to play anymore because you're so angry about the changes would be downloading the PTS and creating a test plan so you're ready to test and provide thoughtful and constructive feedback that may help guide future development in a way that you feel better compensates you as soon as 1.6 hits the PTS.

But instead it seems most of you are choosing to create multiple threads of post after post upon post with rage whine stomping feet toddler temper tantrums.

Sindala · December 2014

Darthryan wrote: »

SIN-X wrote: »

Checking out new mmos?

What mmos? I've been trying to find something new for awhile.

Shroud of the Avatar is looking good. Crowd funded new Richard "UO" Garriott game is being designed 'WITH' the players testing it in Alpha state. Gonna be open world PvP like UO was back in the day..........oh and it already has Housing AND Basements plus an in-depth crafting system.

I hold great hopes of my gaming future on this.......if it fails then I guess it's my time to turn off MMO's. and none are worthy of the acclaim they seek.

Grunim · December 2014

olemanwinter wrote: »

You people talking about leveling up alts make no sense. EVERYTHING in this game will become easier and faster for lowbies after 1.6

If you have a lvl 10 alt, why would you level him now when you can level him faster with 30 Champion points to buff him after 1.6

For many of us, the non-vet leveling process is already very rapid and we hardly need champion points to speed that up for us.

Ashtaris · December 2014

Well I'm pretty much scraping my V12 character that I had and I want to thank ZOS for wasting my time on the hard work. Right now I'm leveling up a Templar to VR1 with the hope that it might have a chance with the CP system when 1.6 rolls out.

Teargrants · December 2014

Ashtaris wrote: »

Well I'm pretty much scraping my V12 character that I had and I want to thank ZOS for wasting my time on the hard work. Right now I'm leveling up a Templar to VR1 with the hope that it might have a chance with the CP system when 1.6 rolls out.

So the game's only worth playing if you can earn champion points from non repeatable quest XP is what you're saying? Please explain the logic behind this.

Speed? But grinding yields more XP/hr than questing.
Fun? The story quests become increasingly tedious after going through it multiple times.
Herpa derp? Do you understand what the champion system is and how it will work when it goes live? Because from you QQ it seems you somehow feel that a V1 will get champion points faster/easier than a V12 can.

nerevarine1138 · December 2014

EQBallzz wrote: »

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Well, I plan on complaining about other players being put on an even footing with me. I mean, really. The nerve of some people!

On a more serious note: if your enjoyment of a game is predicated on your having a headstart over others, then you weren't really enjoying the game much.

So sick of reading these idiotic comments. You think having 14 veteran levels being wiped away without compensation to be made equal to someone who is level 50 is "even footing"? You really think getting some small ratio of the XP earned from vet levels (not 1 for 1 just some ratio up to a cap) is getting a headstart? Why don't you delete your characters at the start of 1.6 and start over so you wont have a headstart on those new players who start the game fresh when 1.6 launches. That's essentially what is being asked of vet players.

Man, you must absolutely explode every time an expansion comes out for an MMO.

When the level cap in an MMO gets moved, or when leveling systems change, everything that you "worked" so hard for becomes pretty much worthless. Welcome to gaming.

xaraan · December 2014

I would say doing anything except silver/gold content type stuff. Sure you won't get any xp for the other stuff you can do, but it's probably stuff you can continue to do after 1.6. Questing isn't one of those things you can redo.

Lord Xanhorn · December 2014

Everyone "saving" quests and content for post CP play is operating under the failed assumption that XP and CP qwill be gained the same ways its always been gained. If you listen to the last ESO Live, she clearly stated that they are changing the way you get XP to more level out the various sources of how you want to play. I took that to mean that if you spend an hour questing, instancing, grinding, or PVPing, at the end of that amount of time, each activity will result in roughly the same XP.

Questing being the only viable XP is hopefully a thing of the past which it should be cause its very antisocial and not conducive for group play in this game.