Guild Traders a lesson in elitist trading

Iluvrien · December 2014

Razzak wrote: »

Those that support current system are those that are in it for the profit. Those that only want some sort of freedom in buying and selling are against it. ZOS usually follows what few guilds tell them, so you can be sure they will not change it.

I sell nothing and am, therefore, not in it for the profit.

Yet I find the current system a charming little side-endeavour (comparison shopping, learning which Guilds or players tend to have lower prices etc.) that is entirely optional and is entirely in keeping with my sense of imersion. I would like them to change a few minor things about it (mostly the interface) but apart from that I am entirely happy with it.

Maybe your generalization could possibly be applied a little less.... generally?

Epsilon_Echo · December 2014

I find is fascinating how people are always complaining about more end game content and playing "how they want to play", yet when a system is introduced that allows for plays to get heavy into merchant play, boohoo.

The way the system is allows for alot of capitalism, and I know plenty of people who dedicate LARGE amounts of their play time in buying, selling, farming, guild fundraising, all in the name of greater profits. There are plenty of ways to make LARGE amounts of money. Non are simple or easy, they require work like any in-game endeavor. Some people have taken the time to understand (Not exploit) the system and they profit heavily.

It is not hard to become a good trader. Find a merchant guild that usually has a vendor, has 490+ members, learn what sells, ????, profit. Here are some points that show why I feel the way I do:

I have made 1.5m guild since 1.5.

I have not exploited anything.

I have aggressively undercut EVERYONE who sells the items I do. So much so that I think I have reason to claim that I have single handedly brought down the price of some items faction-wide by at least 25%. I would elaborate what and how but then my gig would be up. That in mind, I feel safe saying that I am not driving up the prices of anything, for anyone.

Most of the best trading guilds are open to new recruits daily, just ask and they let you in if you have the space.

We have 5 guilds spots. ANY player who is serious about making money could be in one of the best guilds in the game in 20mins of searching.

Most of the best trading guilds have NO rules about price regulation, sell for what you want. Inter-guild price wars raise sales and generate more income for the guild. Setting static prices for their guild members is idiotic.

themizario · December 2014

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

It would have cost me hundreds of thousands of gold to buy the same set from guild traders. If there were a global auction house that anyone could post to without having to be in a guild, individuals would price their goods much more conservatively and not try to bleed you for every last gold piece you have.

So yes, the guild traders are mafia-style extortion. The Shroud Of The Lich set is one of the rarest sets in the entire game and I got it from a few players for a hundred times less than it would have cost me at a guild trader. Rarity does not matter when you are dealing with decent people.

So if I understand well you bought underpriced items from people, in the full knowledge that these people could have sold their items elsewhere at a much higher value. I'd say that you're quite guilty of extortion

I just love the system as it is, it's a whole game within the game, very realistic on top of that (a "worldwide auction house does not exist IRL either, you have to move your a** to get to several shops to be aware of the prices and get the best ones) , and an excellent alternative do this constant dungeoning you're left with at lvl Vet14.

And, as somebody mentioned : nobody is forced to buy. You can craft or farm anything you need. If you don't want to, well let others do it for you and pay you for it. Just fair. That's what business is about.

As to trading guilds squeezing money from their members or trying to control the market or the prices, I haven't tried every single trading guild in the game of course, but in the few i've joined I've never run into anything like that.

Of course some individuals tried to intimidate me or were being rude with me trying to tell me that I was selling too high or too low (depending on their own point of view) but... they had no means to force me. And it was a matter of individuals, not guilds. And it's all part of the game, just like it is IRL.

Trading in ESO is pure fun, I love it. Please ZOS don't change anything. Well, the guild store interface maybe..:D

Like cleaning your house. Pay some.one or spend the time yourself

timidobserver · December 2014

As someone that has been playing the game since beta, I am a huge fan of the current system when compared to what we started with. It makes trading competitive. Trading and making money in ESO is almost a mini game of its own.

I prefer decentralized trading nodes as opposed to the centralized system in GW2. It would be very time consuming to try to control the market on anything in ESO. I watched a guy try to take over the Shadow Walker ring market in one zone and drive up the prices. His efforts were hilarious because they were 40% cheaper in another zone. With enough people that have significant amounts of gold, it is pretty easy in a system like GW2's global AH.

All of that said, while I like the current system just fine, I wouldn't be opposed to a centralized system. It would make effective trading less time consuming.

BRogueNZ · December 2014

Bouvin wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

What I want to know is how does a trading guild make 280,000 from guild store cuts in a week? I can see a guild subsidizing the kiosk somewhat for the good of the guild, but I don't see how this is a sustainable model.

A lot of guilds are doing raffles with 1/2 the gold going to pay for the trader.

There is that, larger guilds accumulate cash very easily through raffles so elitist might be being harsh, perhaps some consider that a complement.

There are also those that enjoy the mini-game of money making. It's not a character flaw as far as I know. It was about all I ever enjoyed doing in my last year playing WoW.

I'm getting too old and lazy and no longer have time to waste. So levelling alts, playing markets, maxnmatoon and crafting to a certain extent is just more than I care to be too concerned about really.

Razzak · December 2014

timidobserver wrote: »

...
Trading and making money in ESO is almost a mini game of its own.
...

Nicely said. And as such it is close to heart for those that like playing the game. If you only want to have a freedom in buying an selling without much hasle and/or time spent, it's a definite crutch.

criscal · December 2014

What I dislike personally about the system is that it takes a long time to find certain things on one of the many guild traders. I would prefer a central auction house, which could even have a higher tax on sales to get money out of the system. Alternatively it would make things easier if you could save named searches and run them automatically at every guild trader you check. Ok the last part might be possible with an add-on but should seriously be part of the normal interface.

Slurg · December 2014

I make plenty of money in the current system but I think some sort of regional marketplace where guilds could buy in to share traders would be a better solution for buyers and sellers.

As for how guilds can afford the fees: yes many do raffles to afford the bids (which can be fun in their own right) but some can pay for themselves. Let's say I make 100,000 gold in sales in a store in one week and the guild gets 3.5%. Any guild with 100 comparable sellers can easily make enough to pay for a kiosk. Honestly the guilds that pressure members to pay out of their own funds when they can't sustain costs with their sales (I hear about this but haven't experienced it myself) are doing everyone a disservice.

gw2only1b14_ESO · December 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

So this week none of my 3 trading guilds have a trader.

One of them was ousted even though the bid was 280,000g in Wayrest

We don't need a system with so many barriers to effective trading.

This is a far cry from the assertion that not having an AH would create an egalitarian system.

So now my 3 trading guilds have no trader for a whole week, making less money, making it harder to bid, and inevitably losing members. Effectively these guilds now have no access to the open market.

The elite guilds control the market.

We just want to trade, buy & sell and not have to put so much effort into bidding, recruiting etc.

If we are not to have an AH the current system needs some serious reworking.

Instead of sitting with no Trader Grab a Keep/resource in the PvP zones all but 1 server is pretty one sided and watch the sales roll in

martinhpb16_ESO · December 2014

gw2only1b14_ESO wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

So this week none of my 3 trading guilds have a trader.

One of them was ousted even though the bid was 280,000g in Wayrest

We don't need a system with so many barriers to effective trading.

This is a far cry from the assertion that not having an AH would create an egalitarian system.

So now my 3 trading guilds have no trader for a whole week, making less money, making it harder to bid, and inevitably losing members. Effectively these guilds now have no access to the open market.

The elite guilds control the market.

We just want to trade, buy & sell and not have to put so much effort into bidding, recruiting etc.

If we are not to have an AH the current system needs some serious reworking.

Instead of sitting with no Trader Grab a Keep/resource in the PvP zones all but 1 server is pretty one sided and watch the sales roll in

Does anyone actually use those?

Jaerlach · December 2014

Nestor wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

The least they could do is add a trade section to this, their official forum.

The ones that don't want a global AH are the guilds that have these trading spots locked down. They are afraid of competition and the fact that players might buy from other players at a lower price than pay stupid inflated amounts for certain items.

I can say for sure that I don't do much, if any business in Rawkla (sp?) just because of the inflated prices to be found there. I find things for much less at other kiosks.

Interesting, I almost always find better prices for what I want in Rawlkha than any other location. You are guaranteed to always have 5 large guilds there, and that means the most price competition between their members and each other.

Then again, the only items I'm usually looking for are DSA drops and random materials, especially random single runes to finish enchanting writs.

I'm in two trade guilds, one of which has consistently kept its trader in Rawlkha and one which is usually in Craglorn, and I would say the Rawlkha guild sells things 3x faster.

Jaerlach · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

... Also, many guilds hold raffles (guildies buy "tickets" for like 2k gold) for purple motifs, mats, and the like.

This right here is an effective way to generate cash for your trading guild. Even the larger, more populous trading guilds, do these sorts of things.

Actually it's part of what's broken about Kiosk bidding because these raffles artificially inflate the cost of bidding on Kiosks to the point where nobody who isn't squeezing every gold piece out of their guild members can afford to bid on a kiosk!

I just don't see that at all. Both of my trade guilds hold some kind of raffle - one asks 1k gold per, one 2.5k. Both offer 1st and 2nd place prizes that are definitely attractive (whole dwemer motif sets, whole v14 footman jewelry sets, etc). It seems to easily pay for the kiosk. On the other hand, I have never participated and neither has anyone else I know. But there are 500 members (and a 3 day inactivity policy), so it doesn't take that many participants to pay for a guild trader. Its just like a lottery, so it isn't my thing, but I'm sure the winners are happy and the people who buy one or two tickets aren't really hurting themselves that badly.

I'm sure their ability to leverage their size this way (I've never seen either guild under 490 members, and they are almost always 500) is a big advantage over new trading guilds, but competition is fine. FWIW, one of the guilds also offers a variety of other incentives for things that help publicize their name: everyone can claim keeps in Cyrodiil, you get paid a bounty for doing so, and a larger bounty if the keep is held for at least 24 hours. I'm sure that helps a lot in getting their name out there.

Varicite · December 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

So this week none of my 3 trading guilds have a trader.

One of them was ousted even though the bid was 280,000g in Wayrest

We don't need a system with so many barriers to effective trading.

This is a far cry from the assertion that not having an AH would create an egalitarian system.

So now my 3 trading guilds have no trader for a whole week, making less money, making it harder to bid, and inevitably losing members. Effectively these guilds now have no access to the open market.

The elite guilds control the market.

We just want to trade, buy & sell and not have to put so much effort into bidding, recruiting etc.

If we are not to have an AH the current system needs some serious reworking.

I don't think there's anything "elitist" about the system. Perhaps you should do some research on the free market and capitalism.

There's nothing unfair about what's going on here.

However, if we're complaining that the system itself is clunky and still harder to find specific items than most enjoy putting up w/, I'm 100% on board w/ that.

Tandor · December 2014

I've never yet managed to find a single item that I was looking for on a guild trader's kiosk. I can't sell anything because I refuse to join a guild solely for that purpose. The whole system is completely borked and defended only by those few who are profiting from it. The supreme irony is that they defend the system on the ground that a global auction house would lead to inflated prices

!

The game needs a fully effective public trading system, preferably faction-based.

martinhpb16_ESO · December 2014

Jaerlach wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

... Also, many guilds hold raffles (guildies buy "tickets" for like 2k gold) for purple motifs, mats, and the like.

This right here is an effective way to generate cash for your trading guild. Even the larger, more populous trading guilds, do these sorts of things.

Actually it's part of what's broken about Kiosk bidding because these raffles artificially inflate the cost of bidding on Kiosks to the point where nobody who isn't squeezing every gold piece out of their guild members can afford to bid on a kiosk!

I just don't see that at all. Both of my trade guilds hold some kind of raffle - one asks 1k gold per, one 2.5k. Both offer 1st and 2nd place prizes that are definitely attractive (whole dwemer motif sets, whole v14 footman jewelry sets, etc). It seems to easily pay for the kiosk. On the other hand, I have never participated and neither has anyone else I know. But there are 500 members (and a 3 day inactivity policy), so it doesn't take that many participants to pay for a guild trader. Its just like a lottery, so it isn't my thing, but I'm sure the winners are happy and the people who buy one or two tickets aren't really hurting themselves that badly.

I'm sure their ability to leverage their size this way (I've never seen either guild under 490 members, and they are almost always 500) is a big advantage over new trading guilds, but competition is fine. FWIW, one of the guilds also offers a variety of other incentives for things that help publicize their name: everyone can claim keeps in Cyrodiil, you get paid a bounty for doing so, and a larger bounty if the keep is held for at least 24 hours. I'm sure that helps a lot in getting their name out there.

And that's the problem. There you have a highly organised, active and well run Trade guild. With.....500 people. They have to do a huge amount of organising and recruiting just to get a good spot to sell.

Competition is fine for you because you are in that guild.

Its not a system that is fair and open to all.

martinhpb16_ESO · December 2014

Varicite wrote: »

I don't think there's anything "elitist" about the system. Perhaps you should do some research on the free market and capitalism.

There's nothing unfair about what's going on here.

However, if we're complaining that the system itself is clunky and still harder to find specific items than most enjoy putting up w/, I'm 100% on board w/ that.

Elistist : favoring, advocating, or restricted to an elite. > a few well organised resourceful trading guilds have the prime trading spots. Its not a system that is open to all on an equal footing.

Capitalism is a system based on the freedom of private individuals access to the economy to buy and sell. Most economies, including those in the west actually have a mixed economy and actually not a pure capitalist free market.

In its worse sense a capitalist economy is primarily dominated by large corporations who crap on the little man.

From the off people claimed that the guild trade system would be like a proto-economic caring, sharing trading commune. That is not the case.

If every trade guild had the opportunity to get a trader in a key spot for a fixed price then we would have something more akin to a free economy. Rather than the state commanding best spots for best price.

The thing is that this is a game and trading is something we should all have the equal opportunity to participate in. Unless we are saying that trading is the same as itemisation etc. in that those who put in the most effort command the best trading spots?

In that case it is far worse than an AH in terms of equality for players.

Jaerlach · December 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Jaerlach wrote: »

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Siliconhobbit_ESO wrote: »

... Also, many guilds hold raffles (guildies buy "tickets" for like 2k gold) for purple motifs, mats, and the like.

This right here is an effective way to generate cash for your trading guild. Even the larger, more populous trading guilds, do these sorts of things.

Actually it's part of what's broken about Kiosk bidding because these raffles artificially inflate the cost of bidding on Kiosks to the point where nobody who isn't squeezing every gold piece out of their guild members can afford to bid on a kiosk!

I just don't see that at all. Both of my trade guilds hold some kind of raffle - one asks 1k gold per, one 2.5k. Both offer 1st and 2nd place prizes that are definitely attractive (whole dwemer motif sets, whole v14 footman jewelry sets, etc). It seems to easily pay for the kiosk. On the other hand, I have never participated and neither has anyone else I know. But there are 500 members (and a 3 day inactivity policy), so it doesn't take that many participants to pay for a guild trader. Its just like a lottery, so it isn't my thing, but I'm sure the winners are happy and the people who buy one or two tickets aren't really hurting themselves that badly.

I'm sure their ability to leverage their size this way (I've never seen either guild under 490 members, and they are almost always 500) is a big advantage over new trading guilds, but competition is fine. FWIW, one of the guilds also offers a variety of other incentives for things that help publicize their name: everyone can claim keeps in Cyrodiil, you get paid a bounty for doing so, and a larger bounty if the keep is held for at least 24 hours. I'm sure that helps a lot in getting their name out there.

And that's the problem. There you have a highly organised, active and well run Trade guild. With.....500 people. They have to do a huge amount of organising and recruiting just to get a good spot to sell.

Competition is fine for you because you are in that guild.

Its not a system that is fair and open to all.

All I had to do to join was ..nothing. Be active every 3 days, and willing to sacrifice one of my 5 guild slots.

Membership has zero cost, and there are plenty of guilds like this. They kick members for inactivity very regularly, and they usually recruit out of zone chat.

The system is fair and open to everyone - they're just winning and you aren't. They built a big, successful guild by making it possible for people like me to participate for only profit (it costs me nothing but shop taxes, and I have zero obligations to the guild). That makes them more successful than the competition, but its not like they are the only one - there are probably 10 of them just in DC.

That's the nature of a competitive marketplace. If you want to pass them, do better.

Epsilon_Echo · December 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I don't think there's anything "elitist" about the system. Perhaps you should do some research on the free market and capitalism.

There's nothing unfair about what's going on here.

However, if we're complaining that the system itself is clunky and still harder to find specific items than most enjoy putting up w/, I'm 100% on board w/ that.

Elistist : favoring, advocating, or restricted to an elite. > a few well organised resourceful trading guilds have the prime trading spots. Its not a system that is open to all on an equal footing.

Capitalism is a system based on the freedom of private individuals access to the economy to buy and sell. Most economies, including those in the west actually have a mixed economy and actually not a pure capitalist free market.

In its worse sense a capitalist economy is primarily dominated by large corporations who crap on the little man.

From the off people claimed that the guild trade system would be like a proto-economic caring, sharing trading commune. That is not the case.

If every trade guild had the opportunity to get a trader in a key spot for a fixed price then we would have something more akin to a free, capitalist economy.

If by a few elite guilds you mean, a guild whose only entry criteria is that you log on once a week and sell something, then yes. Those self righteous 1% ers. How dare the restrict their membership to vitally anyone.

Jaerlach · December 2014

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

I don't think there's anything "elitist" about the system. Perhaps you should do some research on the free market and capitalism.

There's nothing unfair about what's going on here.

However, if we're complaining that the system itself is clunky and still harder to find specific items than most enjoy putting up w/, I'm 100% on board w/ that.

Elistist : favoring, advocating, or restricted to an elite. > a few well organised resourceful trading guilds have the prime trading spots. Its not a system that is open to all on an equal footing.

Capitalism is a system based on the freedom of private individuals access to the economy to buy and sell. Most economies, including those in the west actually have a mixed economy and actually not a pure capitalist free market.

In its worse sense a capitalist economy is primarily dominated by large corporations who crap on the little man.

From the off people claimed that the guild trade system would be like a proto-economic caring, sharing trading commune. That is not the case.

If every trade guild had the opportunity to get a trader in a key spot for a fixed price then we would have something more akin to a free, capitalist economy.

If by a few elite guilds you mean, a guild whose only entry criteria is that you log on once a week and sell something, then yes. Those self righteous 1% ers. How dare the restrict their membership to vitally anyone.

Exactly, I contribute nothing to my trading guilds besides my tax sales. I delete their mails without reading them. I have a separate chat tab for them and never read it.

I am exacty the kind of member they are courting.

martinhpb16_ESO · December 2014

Varicite wrote: »

The system is fair and open to everyone - they're just winning and you aren't..........If you want to pass them, do better.

We are talking about two different things.

A. All players having access to the same opportunity to sell in a market priced by supply and demand. e.g. an AH or trading in channel.

B. All players having access to compete to sell in a market priced by the supply of a limited number of players. Where those who out-compete others are the ones who can sell to the wider market. e.g. Trading Kiosks won by bid.

We are talking about trading in an MMO.

All players should have an equal access to sell in the economy.

not equal access to compete to sell which is what you are advocating.

Trading in an MMO should not be pvp.

Lynnessa · December 2014

Maybe you should ask @ZOS to reset every player's gold as they did with veteran progression.

When did this happen?

Alphashado · December 2014

Tandor wrote: »

I've never yet managed to find a single item that I was looking for on a guild trader's kiosk. I can't sell anything because I refuse to join a guild solely for that purpose. The whole system is completely borked and defended only by those few who are profiting from it. The supreme irony is that they defend the system on the ground that a global auction house would lead to inflated prices !

The game needs a fully effective public trading system, preferably faction-based.

If you refuse to join a good trading guild and find out for yourself, then how is it that you can make such a bold claim about people that like/support the system?

You are obviously jumping to conclusions based on rumor and theory.

There have been several polls on this topic and people like you are always surprised and amazed at how much support it gets. Believe it or not, this system is enjoyed by the majority of people playing the game and actually using it.

If you would just embrace it instead of stubbornly refusing to use it, you may find that it actually works quite nicely and most of what you have heard are just overblown rumors.

I can invite you to a good trading guild if you are interested in giving it an open minded approach. Just send me a private message here.

timidobserver · December 2014

Tandor wrote: »

I've never yet managed to find a single item that I was looking for on a guild trader's kiosk. I can't sell anything because I refuse to join a guild solely for that purpose. The whole system is completely borked and defended only by those few who are profiting from it. The supreme irony is that they defend the system on the ground that a global auction house would lead to inflated prices !

The game needs a fully effective public trading system, preferably faction-based.

I have the opposite experience as you. I don't buy directly from players in zone chat almost ever. I buy every thing I need from traders because, for those that know which traders to look at, it is always cheaper on a trader.

The only thing that players tend to always sale cheaper, for whatever reason, is spell power pots.

martinhpb16_ESO · December 2014

Lynnessa wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Maybe you should ask @ZOS to reset every player's gold as they did with veteran progression.

When did this happen?

I never wrote that. mis-quote

Please sort your parentheses out, thanks.

Epsilon_Echo · December 2014

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Varicite wrote: »

The system is fair and open to everyone - they're just winning and you aren't..........If you want to pass them, do better.

We are talking about two different things.

A. All players having access to the same opportunity to sell in a market priced by supply and demand. e.g. an AH or trading in channel.

B. All players having access to compete to sell in a market priced by the supply of a limited number of players. Where those who out-compete others are the ones who can sell to the wider market. e.g. Trading Kiosks won by bid.

We are talking about trading in an MMO.

All players should have an equal access to sell in the economy.

not equal access to compete to sell which is what you are advocating.

Trading in an MMO should not be pvp.

Well that's where we have to draw the line isn't it? Do you want a generic slot machine where you dump gear and get gold, or do you want a whole extra subsystem of the game where effort leads to greater reward?

The devs opted for the latter and I agree.

Tandor · December 2014

Alphashado wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've never yet managed to find a single item that I was looking for on a guild trader's kiosk. I can't sell anything because I refuse to join a guild solely for that purpose. The whole system is completely borked and defended only by those few who are profiting from it. The supreme irony is that they defend the system on the ground that a global auction house would lead to inflated prices !

The game needs a fully effective public trading system, preferably faction-based.

There have been several polls on this topic and people like you are always surprised and amazed at how much support it gets. Believe it or not, this system is enjoyed by the majority of people playing the game and actually using it.

Simply untrue.

In this poll, only 39% liked the present system.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136341/are-you-happy-with-esos-trade-system/p1

In this one, only 40% opposed an auction house.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99659/do-you-want-an-auction-house/p1

I could go on...

Alphashado · December 2014

Tandor wrote: »

Alphashado wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

I've never yet managed to find a single item that I was looking for on a guild trader's kiosk. I can't sell anything because I refuse to join a guild solely for that purpose. The whole system is completely borked and defended only by those few who are profiting from it. The supreme irony is that they defend the system on the ground that a global auction house would lead to inflated prices !

The game needs a fully effective public trading system, preferably faction-based.

There have been several polls on this topic and people like you are always surprised and amazed at how much support it gets. Believe it or not, this system is enjoyed by the majority of people playing the game and actually using it.

Simply untrue.

In this poll, only 39% liked the present system.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/136341/are-you-happy-with-esos-trade-system/p1

In this one, only 40% opposed an auction house.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/99659/do-you-want-an-auction-house/p1

I could go on...

Maybe you should take a closer look at those polls. Or better yet, let me rephrase my statement. You will not find a poll showing that a majority of players wants an auction house instead.

martinhpb16_ESO · December 2014

Epsilon_Echo wrote: »

Well that's where we have to draw the line isn't it? Do you want a generic slot machine where you dump gear and get gold, or do you want a whole extra subsystem of the game where effort leads to greater reward?

The devs opted for the latter and I agree.

And thats where we actually agree.

The anti-AH brigade hailed that kiosks would be a fairer system than an AH but we both agree that the current system favours more effort and is not a level playing field.

Trading should not be effort v reward like with itemisation or pve.

The trading framework is a system that should favour everyone.

SteveCampsOut · December 2014

Slurg wrote: »

I make plenty of money in the current system but I think some sort of regional marketplace where guilds could buy in to share traders would be a better solution for buyers and sellers.

As for how guilds can afford the fees: yes many do raffles to afford the bids (which can be fun in their own right) but some can pay for themselves. Let's say I make 100,000 gold in sales in a store in one week and the guild gets 3.5%. Any guild with 100 comparable sellers can easily make enough to pay for a kiosk. Honestly the guilds that pressure members to pay out of their own funds when they can't sustain costs with their sales (I hear about this but haven't experienced it myself) are doing everyone a disservice.

It happens. I dumped two such guilds personally. And it's because of their practices that I'm leery of ever joining any new guild that holds raffles. Sadly I can't name them or my post would get edited or deleted by a Moderator.

timidobserver · December 2014

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

I make plenty of money in the current system but I think some sort of regional marketplace where guilds could buy in to share traders would be a better solution for buyers and sellers.

As for how guilds can afford the fees: yes many do raffles to afford the bids (which can be fun in their own right) but some can pay for themselves. Let's say I make 100,000 gold in sales in a store in one week and the guild gets 3.5%. Any guild with 100 comparable sellers can easily make enough to pay for a kiosk. Honestly the guilds that pressure members to pay out of their own funds when they can't sustain costs with their sales (I hear about this but haven't experienced it myself) are doing everyone a disservice.

It happens. I dumped two such guilds personally. And it's because of their practices that I'm leery of ever joining any new guild that holds raffles.

I can understand having an issue with guilds that force members to pay in, but what is the problem with optional raffles or requests for donations.