Welcome to TESO have a nice an beautifull day 8)

Jice · December 2014

Dazin93 wrote: »

However, that isn't to say that just because ZoS acted legally they also acted ethically.

It. Is. A. Game. Unless they used sweatshop children to create the patch there's no ethics problem here. You are an adult, they are a company, and they'll choose what they think is the best course of action for their game even if it means 'stakeholders' like you might get burned in what's best for everyone. Things change over time. You're the one clinging to a comment made months before anything was set in stone about the system like it was some kinda commandment, yet when they try and make the fair choice for everyone, it's them that are unethical?

There are real people with real problems if you're going to bring up corporate ethics.

Apple doesn't have to update an iPhone 2's iOS just because you bought it 5 years ago and you consider it unethical for them not to.

Unless you can give me statistical analyses of how these changes will affect subscription levels then you are only speculating that there will be a negative overall impact on the game. It's not a one way system, Subs will come and subs will go. Your feelings don't matter. You'll be one blip on the chart along with my blip somewhere else. Zeni by keeping with the decision they've made are more willing to bet there will be more blips on my side of the graph.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

xaraan · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Jice wrote: »

Imagine you bought World of Warcraft in 2008. Then Blizzard came in 1 year later and released an expansion because they wanted to change content and didn't want you to have an advantage over new players who bought the game just to play that expansion...

..oh wait, stuff like this happens in MMO's all the time. If every time a game updated everyone was just handed everything they needed to be exactly as strong as they were before what would be the point of adding new content at all?
.

That is not the point at all. Look at my sig for the point.

They're not honoring their engagement, end of story.

Ok, I will look at your sig fo the point:

IT CLEARLY STATES THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THE CAP IS YET.

Guess what, the cap is 30.

The rest of that comment when they said they were tracking xp and that there would be a cap on max starting points also said that very few players would hit that cap. So obviously, something isn't being told to us straight by ZoS.

Keep blindly defending them though, they need all the help they can get right now.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

Bloodfang · December 2014

Dazin93 wrote: »

Despair9 wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

Jice wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

That is not the point at all. Look at my sig for the point.

They're not honoring their engagement, end of story.

Unless your sig links to a contract you signed with lawyers and Zeni that you would be granted points above and beyond what they chose to allot you upon delivery of the system, I don't see how they've entered into anything binding with you or anyone else that plays.

Did everyone just forget how the world works when I went to bed last night? Am I the only one aware that people can say one thing and then change their minds in the future? This is not some Dad who spent the Disneyland money on booze, it's a game who's design direction took a turn while in development, happens all the time.

What is legal and what is ethical are two very different concepts and any business law class or ethics class will tell you the same. I personally have not seen a post yet state that ZoS broke a legally binding contract. However, that isn't to say that just because ZoS acted legally they also acted ethically. This is basic business 101 to be frank.

Perhaps you feel them reneging on a previous statement isn't important to you and that's ok, you have a right to your opinion.

Just understand though, that many do not hold that same opinion, and if they unsub then ultimately that hurts the game and you.

1.6 was supposed to be the game changing patch that brought players back to ESO. With the CP fiasco and other changes such as to the ultimate system, it may very well be driving players away instead. Time will tell, and ZoS still has an opportunity to correct course if they so choose.

Honestly Champion System WILL bring people back. Why?

Because Veteran System drove 75% people away! Only minority is complaining because they are treating this game like a damn job. Or like you're supposed to be handed everything to you.

If you get the reward thats fine if you don't its still fine. Why?
Because you are still getting one of the best progression system ever created in a game!! I seriously don't get it why are people crying over those few points, when there will be thousands of points, years of playtime added etc.

I know some of you are furious because they promised a few points extra. Keep in mind though the next time you tell your friend that you don't have time for a beer or whatever, you are also letting him down. And guess what he's your damn friend, ZOS is not even that!! Be happy they are producing these massive updates, be happy they are even interacting with us, because the community is becoming horrible lately.

This isn't a FTP game. Every person subscribed to ESO is paying their salaries and expects production in return so I don't understand why you feel updates are a privilege.

I don't pay my friends to drink beer with me or vice versa so your analogy isn't applicable to this situation nor does it make any sense.

Maybe you think it's the minority complaining and maybe you are right. The fact is though you really have no more idea than I.

If I take my vehicle in for service and the technician prints me out a sheet of the work to be done and what it will cost then I expect when I pick my vehicle up nothing will have changed unless i authorized additional work. This is not a sense of entitlement but in effect an agreement.

If I pick my vehicle up and they attempt to change the agreement then I will choose to refuse payment, take legal action if possible, or at the very least never do business with that entity again.

Perhaps you would act differently in that situation. Perhaps you would continue to do business with them despite them not honoring the original agreement.

I for one value integrity, and will not continue to support a company (financially or otherwise) that I feel is lacking in business ethics. I don't think there is anything more to discuss........

Except there wasn't any agreement really between ZOS and US. Just a promise. Which everyone should know how fragile it is, however they already started apologizing, most people in the world never do. We've come so far that the companies treat us better than everyone around us.

About your comparison it's really weak, firstly because ZOS is giving us a "golden sheet of work to be done". Which would be translated as the guy would rework your car in a damn impressive beast of a machine, however you would complain because the tank is empty. I don't wanna be rude it just means you are not appreciating he is reworking your car for 1000€ instead of 100,000€, and you are only mad at him because he didn't fuel your tank for 50€..

I can't really help with that, it just means people don't appreciate anything these days.

EQBallzz · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Jice wrote: »

Imagine you bought World of Warcraft in 2008. Then Blizzard came in 1 year later and released an expansion because they wanted to change content and didn't want you to have an advantage over new players who bought the game just to play that expansion...

..oh wait, stuff like this happens in MMO's all the time. If every time a game updated everyone was just handed everything they needed to be exactly as strong as they were before what would be the point of adding new content at all?
.

That is not the point at all. Look at my sig for the point.

They're not honoring their engagement, end of story.

Ok, I will look at your sig fo the point:

IT CLEARLY STATES THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THE CAP IS YET.

Guess what, the cap is 30.

Giving everyone 30 points is not a cap it's a flat rate. A cap would mean earning some amount up to a stopping point and would have a range in between. If everyone gets 30 that is not the case. The other part that you conveniently ignore is them telling everyone to KEEP PLAYING because XP was being tracked and would reward us with CP. Now that content can't be undone and no credit is being given. If they had just been truthful from the start people could have at least made an informed decision on whether to waste XP now or not.

You clearly have no problem with being mislead or any of the changes so why do you keep posting in an antagonizing way to those of us that do? We have the right to post our concerns about these issues so that *maybe* they will listen and change course. It's clear why those of us that are not happy with this are posting but it's not clear why you and others are so ferociously posting in opposition to us. Sort of makes me wonder what your real motivation is. I'm guessing ZOS employee? Maybe friend of ZOS employee? Hmmm...

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

LonePirate · December 2014

yodased wrote: »

Ok, I will look at your sig fo the point:

IT CLEARLY STATES THEY DONT KNOW WHAT THE CAP IS YET.

Guess what, the cap is 30.

It is not a cap when every single player receives the same 30 points regardless of their current VR level or how much time they have spent playing or how much XP they have earned. This is essentially the equivalent of a door prize or participation ribbon - you get it for showing up. How is that any sort of reward or enticement for existing players who have worked hard the past few months to earn XP?

I could cut ZOS a little slack if there was a way for these VR10+ players to earn XP at a rate or at a volume similar to what non-VR players can earn them. Unfortunately, there is very little content for these players to play to earn CPs. How is that fair or wise?

Instead of calling it the Champion System, ZOS should have called it the Robin Hood System because it is little more than taking points earned by experience VR players and giving them to players who have not earned them.

[Moderator Note: Edited quote to match moderated version]

whsprwind · December 2014

More lies from ZoS. Nothing new

My confidence with ZOS withers with their every patch. How much longer can it last i wonder?

Never know when they're gonna go back on their word and go F2P too. Most of the people here in this thread will probably defend them anyway

HeX7 · December 2014

xMovingTarget wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Dazin93 wrote: »

@‌Tandor you state that players aren't losing the benefits those ranks have accrued and currently you are correct. What players are losing is the experience accrued post VR14.

Additionally, you are failing to consider that many players (even casual such as myself) have been playing on a VR14 for months with nothing now to show for it. Also, many players leveled alts to VR14 with no intention of actively playing them but rather as a means to gain CS points as ZoS stated it would. Therefore to them, that alt holds no benefit regardless of its rank.

Finally, the German mod clearly stated that additional CS points will not be awarded when vet levels are removed; that is not part of the plan. Tell me then, if the champion system is the future progression system for our characters, and our vet exp doesn't count towards it, what will our vet xp count for?

I wouldn't be surprised if there already is a achievement pet in the works for "elder" players. There, enjoy your "reward".

I'm not clear that he did say that, but we don't have a clear indication one way or the other.

We also don't have a clear indication of what was meant when he made another point that people seem to want to ignore:-

"But we want to make sure that players who have already completed most of the content , are not disadvantaged in earnings of other points champion."

My native Language is german. He said no additional points. At no point do we get more than 30 CP. Not when 1.6 starts, Not when they ditch the veteran ranks. So no compensation for additional XP and no compesation for Veteran Ranks once they disappear. There you go.

30 points, thats it

Thank you for posting this MovingTarget

Dazin93 · December 2014

Any of you can continue to try to insult me or attempt to disparage my character or who I am as a person. I do not care. I have already paid for a number of months based on statements made by ZoS and I am going to continue to post here and voice my opinion as is my right until my paid time is up.

"The dogs bark, but the wagons roll on."

Elsonso · December 2014

Xjcon wrote: »

MMO 's are always evolving in no way is this like how you describe. I really feel bad for people who claim they put in so much work to play a video game.

Sorry. Posted instead of saved.

Blud · December 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Welcome to the latest episode of the famous miniseries of: "Stop playing this game so much, being a loyal customer and giving us money since we will keep finding ways to [snip] you over".

After our first two successful episodes:

- New armor sets (1.3): When Zenimax skillfully changed all the most popular armor sets making most of them useless: If you had legendary armor that just became worthless: buck it .
- The Undaunted Noob Enhancer(1.5) : When someone thought it was a good idea not to award people for their Achievements in regards of undaunted skill line XP. Got all Achievements already? Can't level up the undaunted skill line? No problem braaa, you'll just have to do the dailies to get to max level while people who haven't done any achievement get it in two days. Because that's fairness

Zenimax Online Studios now brings to their prefered console beta testers:
-Champion points XP tracking? We lied, what you gonna do?

A delightful new episode in the series franchise where once again, people who trusted Zenimax, people who listened to the comunity managers, people who believe in fairness, get once again [sniped] in their [sniping] [snips] while noobs and people who don't play the game get special treatment and faster advancement possibilities.

You haven't been subbed to the game since day one? You have been cheating on TESO with other single player (yuck) games? You haven't been loging in every single day to play? The game has bored you so much that you haven't even reached max level in 8 months? FEAR NOT! The Zenimax commie machine is here to help you and give you outrageous advantages over the people who have been loyal to the game since beta, who have been playing non stop and who made the terrrrrrrrible mistake of believing Zenimax would ever implement a fair system in one of their game changing releases .

This new episode of the saga will be sure to contain legendary proportions of: epic rage, epic "we don't give a flying fart about our community" and most of all (but not the least) we will comment on your posts where you ask us questions we don't answer to tell you to ask those questions in a more Civil way.

Welcome to the latest episode of "The Elder Commies Online", where you don't need to work hard to be on the same level of people who do and if you do work hard, you don't get any reward out of it. Be sure to tell your friends about it .

=========================
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143784/champion-system-clarification

After reading what was stated above, the answer that has been burning the forums through the weekend has been answered:

As long as you have 1 char VR1 in your account, you will get credited 30CP. Nothing more, nothing less.

So this means that after lying to us in order to keep people playing the game instead of unsubing and waiting for Champion System, Zenimax has done it again, giving the middle finger to the people that have been the most invested in the game and favoring the people who haven't.

Thank you Zenimax for this Xmass present, just made my day.

It's not like you could have awarded points from 20 to 100, giving 20 to the players who had nothing (and don't even deserve those 20 points), and capping to 100 the number of points to give to people who listened to you and kept playing their VR characters so that they feel rewarded fo

Edit: To all the people wondering where ZOS said they would track the XP and reward accordingly:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

This is a master work of melodrama, QQ, and sense of entitlement -- it's awesome.

Thumbs up!

Pallmor · December 2014

I think what we're dealing with here isn't a sense of "entitlement," but rather a sense of fairness and honesty. People expect to be rewarded for hard work and loyalty, not punished. And people expect to be dealt with honestly, not to be deceived. Of course, it doesn't always work out that way in real life. But people still expect it nonetheless, and get angry when they're not dealt with fairly and honestly, or when their loyalty is punished rather than rewarded.

If there is any sense of entitlement here, it's from the player who expects to hit VR1 and be just as good in PvP as a player with a VR14 character who has worked their butt off for months building up their toon.

And for what it's worth, I'm a VR2 player. And I'm one who respects that I'm not going to be able to outfight a VR14 in PvP. That VR14 player has obviously put a lot more work into his/her toon than I have and I do not feel entitled to be as good as him just because I can't handle someone being better skilled and more dedicated than me.

Blud · December 2014

Pallmor wrote: »

I think what we're dealing with here isn't a sense of "entitlement,"

I think that's exactly what it is, notwithstanding that I agree with what you say about fairness and honesty.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entitlement

simontheriault1b16_ESO · December 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Welcome to the latest episode of the famous miniseries of: "Stop playing this game so much, being a loyal customer and giving us money since we will keep finding ways to [snip] you over".

After our first two successful episodes:

- New armor sets (1.3): When Zenimax skillfully changed all the most popular armor sets making most of them useless: If you had legendary armor that just became worthless: buck it .
- The Undaunted Noob Enhancer(1.5) : When someone thought it was a good idea not to award people for their Achievements in regards of undaunted skill line XP. Got all Achievements already? Can't level up the undaunted skill line? No problem braaa, you'll just have to do the dailies to get to max level while people who haven't done any achievement get it in two days. Because that's fairness

Zenimax Online Studios now brings to their prefered console beta testers:
-Champion points XP tracking? We lied, what you gonna do?

A delightful new episode in the series franchise where once again, people who trusted Zenimax, people who listened to the comunity managers, people who believe in fairness, get once again [sniped] in their [sniping] [snips] while noobs and people who don't play the game get special treatment and faster advancement possibilities.

You haven't been subbed to the game since day one? You have been cheating on TESO with other single player (yuck) games? You haven't been loging in every single day to play? The game has bored you so much that you haven't even reached max level in 8 months? FEAR NOT! The Zenimax commie machine is here to help you and give you outrageous advantages over the people who have been loyal to the game since beta, who have been playing non stop and who made the terrrrrrrrible mistake of believing Zenimax would ever implement a fair system in one of their game changing releases .

This new episode of the saga will be sure to contain legendary proportions of: epic rage, epic "we don't give a flying fart about our community" and most of all (but not the least) we will comment on your posts where you ask us questions we don't answer to tell you to ask those questions in a more Civil way.

Welcome to the latest episode of "The Elder Commies Online", where you don't need to work hard to be on the same level of people who do and if you do work hard, you don't get any reward out of it. Be sure to tell your friends about it .

=========================
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/143784/champion-system-clarification

After reading what was stated above, the answer that has been burning the forums through the weekend has been answered:

As long as you have 1 char VR1 in your account, you will get credited 30CP. Nothing more, nothing less.

So this means that after lying to us in order to keep people playing the game instead of unsubing and waiting for Champion System, Zenimax has done it again, giving the middle finger to the people that have been the most invested in the game and favoring the people who haven't.

Thank you Zenimax for this Xmass present, just made my day.

It's not like you could have awarded points from 20 to 100, giving 20 to the players who had nothing (and don't even deserve those 20 points), and capping to 100 the number of points to give to people who listened to you and kept playing their VR characters so that they feel rewarded fo

Edit: To all the people wondering where ZOS said they would track the XP and reward accordingly:

ZOS_MariaAliprando wrote: »

Greetings! I am Maria Aliprando, Gameplay Designer on the Champion System.

Should players that are VR1+ still work towards VR12 or should they just wait until the new changes.
Continue to play! We are tracking your XP as you advance your way through Veteran Ranks and even past VR14. When the Champion System comes out we will reward you points right away based on the amount of XP you have earned up to a cap. In general, most people won’t reach the cap and we do not know what that cap is yet. We're still working out that value and making sure to take a look at the XP you all are earning.

Have fun unsubbing since it look so painful

PolskiBunny_ESO · December 2014

In the past people have complained about things and ESO is still alive anyways. The first major complaint I remember is the imperial pay wall, and that blew over.

When ZOS releases the update, people who are upset are either going to keep playing, or quit. People who don't care will keep playing. Some people who I subbed might come back. ZOS is still going to have gamers, so if this is the course they decided is best in their opinion, they'll probably roll with it.

More importantly, people who think this makes everyone equal are silly. Why? Because I assume you can still have skill. If you need to be VR14 to think you're better than a player using a VR8 character, maybe you aren't that good? I mean, obviously we all prefer to reach the higher level, but that doesn't make you an equal match to people that have what you have.
And what you might have is less skill.

So stop complaining here and play the game... Develop skill and style. Dazzle us...? That might be cool.

Razzak · December 2014

PolskiBunny_ESO wrote: »

In the past people have complained about things and ESO is still alive anyways. The first major complaint I remember is the imperial pay wall, and that blew over.

When ZOS releases the update, people who are upset are either going to keep playing, or quit. People who don't care will keep playing. Some people who I subbed might come back. ZOS is still going to have gamers, so if this is the course they decided is best in their opinion, they'll probably roll with it.

More importantly, people who think this makes everyone equal are silly. Why? Because I assume you can still have skill. If you need to be VR14 to think you're better than a player using a VR8 character, maybe you aren't that good? I mean, obviously we all prefer to reach the higher level, but that doesn't make you an equal match to people that have what you have.
And what you might have is less skill.

So stop complaining here and play the game... Develop skill and style. Dazzle us...? That might be cool.

This could set a precedence in how they relate to us in the future. Would you care for a company that keeps making promises and then keeps braking them? Would you keep paying them for it?

Their own silence on this topic is a clear indication that they themselves think what they are trying to implement is not exactly "kosher". Gina and others are hiding and hoping their boss will find a way out.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

Lava_Croft · December 2014

At least bending over and taking it up the behind from the Champion System might make the waiting for Cyrodiil to be fixed somewhat less boring.

RedTalon · December 2014

To nerd or not to nerd in free time on this game, that is the question!

Sounds like its good I have been on a sorta break.

I55UE5 · December 2014

If ZoS tracked XP for the people that have "invested" most in this game, you would have over 75% of your champions points earned on patch day.

You would then make a new post about how there is not enough progression and that you NEED more things and ZoS must obey your needs right this second or the game is going to fall apart and all employees will be stricken with brain cancer.

Find another hobby, this is quite sad.

Razzak · December 2014

I55UE5 wrote: »

If ZoS tracked XP for the people that have "invested" most in this game, you would have over 75% of your champions points earned on patch day.

You would then make a new post about how there is not enough progression and that you NEED more things and ZoS must obey your needs right this second or the game is going to fall apart and all employees will be stricken with brain cancer.

Find another hobby, this is quite sad.

That would be the other end of extreme and neither is good. What we need is something in between. Let's say they calculate how much CPs you get from quests during Vet1-14 and they give that amount to Vet14 chars that have no quests to do by themselves.

Kraen · December 2014

It amazes me how people that clearly profit from the Champion System decision are shouting around phrases like "its a game" and "stop QQ".

Its a game that we all invest money and time into, and it makes sense that we care if someone erases our time (and money) investment with marketing decision.

The fact that you are not the group that is ditched by this decision kinda doesnt give you a right to defend ZOS. But I should probably not expect a proper behaviour on this very forum. Some people will just shout their different opinion just for the sake of being different, even if their statements lack any sense than simple "I am not affected, so nobody is. ._."

Sentences like "You didnt sign up a contract with Zeni" are just absolutely mad. If you say you will do something in real life, are you signing a contract? If your kid promises you to clean his room, are you signing a contract? Its a matter of trust. Zenimax just threw their reliability out of the window. Its not against any law, but it will hurt the company in a long term.

By not standing by their word, Zenimax will lose in long term. They are actually pissing off the layer of the good players that are driving the game forward and they are cattering towards first time players instead. Players who are already playing for 5+ months are loyal customers, new players are hazard investment. It can be great, but most probably the game wont keep them, because everyone who badly wanted to play ESO is playing it / played it already. The Elder Scrolls universe virgins wont save the game if its sinking.

Balance issues wont be prevented by this move either. Good players / those with time will get ahead very quickly again, and they will be "OP", if you think that is the thing that Champion System will give you eventually.

In the end, only thing that will remain are customers that are clearly feeling cheated for kinda understandable reason. Bad for company, I´d say.

Kraen · December 2014

I55UE5 wrote: »

You would then make a new post about how there is not enough progression and that you NEED more things

Actually, there definitely are players who would do this, but not the majority of current "screaming" players.

I can speak for my guild only, but we expected to get decent sum of Champion Points to reduce the grind that will accompany Champion Points earning. less grind means more time for the things we do enjoy - Hardmode Serpent, and keeping up our records.

You cannot generalize. If someone who didnt kill the Hardmode Serpent says that the game has no content, its false - because he didnt finish everything yet. Invalid argument, move on.

There will be always people crying for something. Many arguments are invalid and its kinda easy to prove them invalid. Champion System argument is sad enough valid from pov of many players.

Kraen · December 2014

And something to make the Xmas nicer.

Thanks to @Layenem for finding it.

Jess, we memorized!

Razzak · December 2014

Kraen wrote: »

And something to make the Xmas nicer.

Thanks to @Layenem for finding it.

How old is this?

Inklings · December 2014

I don't buy for one second their reasoning behind limiting 30cp to everyone at vr1 or higher. And i think its really sad and scary that a lot of people are letting them pull the wool over their eyes on this. ZoS are not stupid enough to not realize that once this patch goes live, people will grind those CP out so fast that this separation between casual and hardcore players that they are so worried about, will be so big in just one weeks time that their reason behind only giving 30 points to everyone wont mean jack. We have seen this happen in EVERY other mmo and even in this game when the new undaunted line came out. CP farming will be NO different.

The reason they are doing this is cause people will see it as a chance to flock back to this game and be on the same par as when they left. Its nothing more then a cash grab. Don't let them fool you in thinking other wise.

Lionxoft · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

I don't buy for one second their reasoning behind limiting 30cp to everyone at vr1 or higher. And i think its really sad and scary that a lot of people are letting them pull the wool over their eyes on this. ZoS are not stupid enough to not realize that once this patch goes live, people will grind those CP out so fast that this separation between casual and hardcore players that they are so worried about, will be so big in just one weeks time that their reason behind only giving 30 points to everyone wont mean jack. We have seen this happen in EVERY other mmo and even in this game when the new undaunted line came out. CP farming will be NO different.

The reason they are doing this is cause people will see it as a chance to flock back to this game and be on the same par as when they left. Its nothing more then a cash grab. Don't let them fool you in thinking other wise.

More people to play/hang out with and create potentially long lasting relationships is a bad thing? Cash grab? Sure. A bad one? Nope.

Just want to point out another thing... By that definition every piece of new content would be considered a cash grab :P

Guppet · December 2014

Inklings wrote: »

I don't buy for one second their reasoning behind limiting 30cp to everyone at vr1 or higher. And i think its really sad and scary that a lot of people are letting them pull the wool over their eyes on this. ZoS are not stupid enough to not realize that once this patch goes live, people will grind those CP out so fast that this separation between casual and hardcore players that they are so worried about, will be so big in just one weeks time that their reason behind only giving 30 points to everyone wont mean jack. We have seen this happen in EVERY other mmo and even in this game when the new undaunted line came out. CP farming will be NO different.

The reason they are doing this is cause people will see it as a chance to flock back to this game and be on the same par as when they left. Its nothing more then a cash grab. Don't let them fool you in thinking other wise.

The thing is they are not pulling the wool over peoples eyes. There are people who know exactly what ZOS are doing, but we just don't get mega stressed, as we see its better in the long run.

Its about future health of the game verses current player power levels. Some hate the idea of loosing that increased power and they are justified in being angered about it, but many are more accepting of what is happening.

Don't mistake people defending what ZOS is doing for those people being 100% happy with loosing progress.

All this gnashing of teeth and wailing will be moot by the end of March, as those that play 40+ hours a week will have hundreds more CP than the casual players anyway.

The 1.6 patch creates a point in time that ex players can come back and not be behind, its about getting those subs back.

Razzak · December 2014

Guppet wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I don't buy for one second their reasoning behind limiting 30cp to everyone at vr1 or higher. And i think its really sad and scary that a lot of people are letting them pull the wool over their eyes on this. ZoS are not stupid enough to not realize that once this patch goes live, people will grind those CP out so fast that this separation between casual and hardcore players that they are so worried about, will be so big in just one weeks time that their reason behind only giving 30 points to everyone wont mean jack. We have seen this happen in EVERY other mmo and even in this game when the new undaunted line came out. CP farming will be NO different.

The reason they are doing this is cause people will see it as a chance to flock back to this game and be on the same par as when they left. Its nothing more then a cash grab. Don't let them fool you in thinking other wise.

The thing is they are not pulling the wool over peoples eyes. There are people who know exactly what ZOS are doing, but we just don't get mega stressed, as we see its better in the long run.

Its about future health of the game verses current player power levels. Some hate the idea of loosing that increased power and they are justified in being angered about it, but many are more accepting of what is happening.

Don't mistake people defending what ZOS is doing for those people being 100% happy with loosing progress.

All this gnashing of teeth and wailing will be moot by the end of March, as those that play 40+ hours a week will have hundreds more CP than the casual players anyway.

The 1.6 patch creates a point in time that ex players can come back and not be behind, its about getting those subs back.

So, according to your own words, it's done in this way so new players would "feel" they are not behind, even if they will be, considering they will immediately start falling behind if they don't play a lot.
So, it's pulling the wool over new players' eyes.

JKorr · December 2014

magnusnet wrote: »

Etori wrote: »

Oh hey! Stuff that hasn't been talked about before!

I would imagine there are far more casual gamers than power gamers. When politicians try and get as many votes as possible who do they target? The largest demographic (ie not the top 1%)

Except the people who are VR14 are the ones that have given them the most money and usually politicians tend to listen to the people that finance their campaigns, especially in countries like the US.

Edit: Oh and people who are casual gamers(and aren't VR14) don't care about being as powerful as raiders and would proly welcome the free CP points they don't even deserve, so I don't see how giving to each it's own would make people unhappy.

Been playing since beta/early access. Bought the Imperial edition. Still playing, still have an active account.

Pray tell, unless the people who are VR14 have been sending extra money to Zenimax out of the goodness of their hearts, how exactly have those players "given them the most money"? Did the VR14 players pick a special "get charged more money" subscription? Everyone has been playing the same amount of time.

I have 8 characters on the live server, 3 on the pts. I haven't been rushing the content or grinding because I wanna be uber leet powerful for "raids" or in pvp. I still don't have any characters over vr 5.

Now, who will Zenimax end up getting more money from? The vr14 players who rushed the content and did the experience grind to get where they are, or the players like me who haven't rushed the content and will keep playing longer to make it to vr 14/whatever the champion rank equivalent will be?

I guess, according to your standards, I'm a casual player, even though I was in the private beta, and have been playing since early access. I plan to continue giving Zenimax money as long as I'm enjoying the game. Given all the outraged threads about this, I might be giving them money longer than the vr14 players who are planning to cancel their subs.

Guppet · December 2014

Razzak wrote: »

Guppet wrote: »

Inklings wrote: »

I don't buy for one second their reasoning behind limiting 30cp to everyone at vr1 or higher. And i think its really sad and scary that a lot of people are letting them pull the wool over their eyes on this. ZoS are not stupid enough to not realize that once this patch goes live, people will grind those CP out so fast that this separation between casual and hardcore players that they are so worried about, will be so big in just one weeks time that their reason behind only giving 30 points to everyone wont mean jack. We have seen this happen in EVERY other mmo and even in this game when the new undaunted line came out. CP farming will be NO different.

The reason they are doing this is cause people will see it as a chance to flock back to this game and be on the same par as when they left. Its nothing more then a cash grab. Don't let them fool you in thinking other wise.

The thing is they are not pulling the wool over peoples eyes. There are people who know exactly what ZOS are doing, but we just don't get mega stressed, as we see its better in the long run.

Its about future health of the game verses current player power levels. Some hate the idea of loosing that increased power and they are justified in being angered about it, but many are more accepting of what is happening.

Don't mistake people defending what ZOS is doing for those people being 100% happy with loosing progress.

All this gnashing of teeth and wailing will be moot by the end of March, as those that play 40+ hours a week will have hundreds more CP than the casual players anyway.

The 1.6 patch creates a point in time that ex players can come back and not be behind, its about getting those subs back.

So, according to your own words, it's done in this way so new players would "feel" they are not behind, even if they will be, considering they will immediately start falling behind if they don't play a lot.
So, it's pulling the wool over new players' eyes.

Only if those new players, are so incredibly simple, that they don't understand that a player that plays more then them, will accelerate away from them in CP.

Your also assuming that all new players will play less, some may play as much as the current hardcore crowd, they wont fall behind anyone.

pppontus · December 2014

JKorr wrote: »

magnusnet wrote: »

Etori wrote: »

Oh hey! Stuff that hasn't been talked about before!

I would imagine there are far more casual gamers than power gamers. When politicians try and get as many votes as possible who do they target? The largest demographic (ie not the top 1%)

Except the people who are VR14 are the ones that have given them the most money and usually politicians tend to listen to the people that finance their campaigns, especially in countries like the US.

Edit: Oh and people who are casual gamers(and aren't VR14) don't care about being as powerful as raiders and would proly welcome the free CP points they don't even deserve, so I don't see how giving to each it's own would make people unhappy.

Been playing since beta/early access. Bought the Imperial edition. Still playing, still have an active account.

Pray tell, unless the people who are VR14 have been sending extra money to Zenimax out of the goodness of their hearts, how exactly have those players "given them the most money"? Did the VR14 players pick a special "get charged more money" subscription? Everyone has been playing the same amount of time.

I have 8 characters on the live server, 3 on the pts. I haven't been rushing the content or grinding because I wanna be uber leet powerful for "raids" or in pvp. I still don't have any characters over vr 5.

Now, who will Zenimax end up getting more money from? The vr14 players who rushed the content and did the experience grind to get where they are, or the players like me who haven't rushed the content and will keep playing longer to make it to vr 14/whatever the champion rank equivalent will be?

I guess, according to your standards, I'm a casual player, even though I was in the private beta, and have been playing since early access. I plan to continue giving Zenimax money as long as I'm enjoying the game. Given all the outraged threads about this, I might be giving them money longer than the vr14 players who are planning to cancel their subs.

They gain more money from them because hardcore players generally inspire more players to become hardcore players and stick with the game, where they would have normally quit instead. Also hardcore players are the ones who find out all the stuff about game mechanics, trial mechanics, strategies etc. that all the rest of the players will be using, as well as that they market the game through youtube videos, streams etc.

Basically, all the noobs hate the hardcore players ("elitists") but unknowingly they still live off of them by using their builds and strategies. Which if they weren't made public knowledge would cause most casuals to quit at VR14 (as I've already seen a million times where people quit because they can't find a PUG to complete AA/HR).