Maintenance for the week of April 13:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 13
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 13
Is removing the AoE cap a wise decision ?
Dracane
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
I'm very worried about ZoS removing the AoE cap again.
Some of us still remember the early times of ESO, when vampires and DK emperors were ruling everything, thanks to unlimited AoE.
I'm scared, they will become unbeatable again. Even though I see a big hope in the new ultimate gain mechanic, which would be a perfect trade off. Because this means, that AoE exploiters can't spam their DK flags and Bat swarm. But hitting like 20 targets or more with it, will make them invinceable anyway.
Is it confirmed, that we will only gain ultimate by using light and heavy attacks ? Because this would make the removal of the AoE cap not sooo frightening. ( Hope I'm not considered a troll, only a desperate Altmer Sorceress)
Some of us still remember the early times of ESO, when vampires and DK emperors were ruling everything, thanks to unlimited AoE.
I'm scared, they will become unbeatable again. Even though I see a big hope in the new ultimate gain mechanic, which would be a perfect trade off. Because this means, that AoE exploiters can't spam their DK flags and Bat swarm. But hitting like 20 targets or more with it, will make them invinceable anyway.
Is it confirmed, that we will only gain ultimate by using light and heavy attacks ? Because this would make the removal of the AoE cap not sooo frightening. ( Hope I'm not considered a troll, only a desperate Altmer Sorceress)
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.
5
-
Zed✭✭✭Have they even said what the new cap will be? I remember reading a transcript of the last live show that said they were increasing offensive caps but not to what.Spend spend spend! 'Cause you don't know any better.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As far as I know, 60 targets will take the full AoE damage and after that, it decreases but who cares, 60 targets is already sooo much.
I just dont understand, why people want this to happen O.o mostly DKs and Vampires
(of course) They say, that the game will lag less with the AoE cap removed. Even thought it's not completely removed.
Thinking of this, I really see the point in the new ultimate gain mechanic.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.1 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
They did say 60. But its going to depend on how far away you are from the center on how much damage it does. So the farther you are the less damage. Eric is the one who said it.
Edit: yeah it was the last live show.Edited by ers101284b14_ESO on December 24, 2014 4:33AM0 -
Zed✭✭✭ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »
I can only go by what was posted over on TF about the AoE caps and it doesn't list numbers but 60 seems like a bit much. I suppose it's still too early to get too worried though.Spend spend spend! 'Cause you don't know any better.0 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »
I can only go by what was posted over on TF about the AoE caps and it doesn't list numbers but 60 seems like a bit much. I suppose it's still too early to get too worried though.
Watch the actual broadcast. He does in fact say 60. But they explain it like skeetball. The very center has the biggest damage and everything around it drops off. So if your on the edge your not going to be taking maximum damage.
They are hoping this will help prevent stacking and if people don't stack and run Zerg trains it should help out the lag.Edited by ers101284b14_ESO on December 24, 2014 4:47AM0 -
LonePirate✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Every vampire in Cyrodiil is sharpening their fangs for the removal of AOE caps as that will essentially turn on a never ending Ultimate generator for them. If you're not a vampire, you will not be competitive in Cyrodiil and you might as well stick to the PVE zones.5 -
Zed✭✭✭ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »
I can only go by what was posted over on TF about the AoE caps and it doesn't list numbers but 60 seems like a bit much. I suppose it's still too early to get too worried though.
Watch the actual broadcast. He does in fact say 60. But they explain it like skeetball. The very center has the biggest damage and everything around it drops off. So if your on the edge your not going to be taking maximum damage.
They are hoping this will help prevent stacking and if people don't stack and run Zerg trains it should help out the lag.
I am not able to watch it atm because I should beworkingso I'll just have to take your word on it. It still feels like a bit much but like I said above, it's still too early to get worried.Spend spend spend! 'Cause you don't know any better.0 -
ers101284b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »
I can only go by what was posted over on TF about the AoE caps and it doesn't list numbers but 60 seems like a bit much. I suppose it's still too early to get too worried though.
Watch the actual broadcast. He does in fact say 60. But they explain it like skeetball. The very center has the biggest damage and everything around it drops off. So if your on the edge your not going to be taking maximum damage.
They are hoping this will help prevent stacking and if people don't stack and run Zerg trains it should help out the lag.
I am not able to watch it atm because I should beworkingso I'll just have to take your word on it. It still feels like a bit much but like I said above, it's still too early to get worried.
Yeah understandable. I am watching so I can remember where they said it and give an exact time.0 -
RinaldoGandolphi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Everyone assumes the lag is caused by the AOE cap, but I have my doubts. The computations used to count the number of players should be using native instruction sets inside modern CPU such as FMA3, etc. AMD and Intel designed these to be accelerated and have very little overhead if called directly though something like C.
There was hardly any lag prior to the lighting changes. The FPS drops exhibit all the symptoms of faulty garbage collection. This game does not dispose of particle effects in an efficient manner which in turn could be called a memory leak.
To understand, not all memory leaks use huge tons of memory as you would expect in task manager. Infact, many memory leaks are caused by buffers getting filled and data not being dumped from them, the faulty logic in the code causes unresponsiveness in terms of this game FPS drops followed by a crash.
Windows itself has had tons of memory leaks over the years, most of these leaks never tied up all your RAM, under certain conditions, buffers would get filled causing a panic or a crash by not disposing of data no longer needed in the buffer.
I'm almost 99% certain in huge battles and such, particle effects from 5 minutes ago are still in the buffer even if you can't see them, and I'd bet part of this is server side as well.
Go ahead remove the caps, I bet it still drops FPS in large battles. My Intel 4670k with 2 R9 280x seems the same 20-17 fps drop my AMD 8320 OC with 2 R9 280 sees, its nearly Identical.
IMO the lag issues with this game are an engine issue, one that would require a significant code change to fix.
I say go ahead remove the caps, its still not going to solve the real cause of the issues which is the lighting and particle update they added to the game. The performance of this game sharply declined after that update. The game ran smooth as butter prior to that. The game looked great prior to that so I don't even know why they added it to begin with.
Just my 2 cents.Rinaldo Gandolphi-Breton Sorcerer Daggerfall Covenant
Juste Gandolphi Dark Elf Templar Daggerfall Covenant
Richter Gandolphi - Dark Elf Dragonknight Daggerfall Covenant
Mathias Gandolphi - Breton Nightblade Daggerfall Covenant
RinaldoGandolphi - High Elf Sorcerer Aldmeri Dominion
Officer Fire and Ice
Co-GM - MVP
Sorcerer's - The ONLY class in the game that is punished for using its class defining skill (Bolt Escape)
"Here in his shrine, that they have forgotten. Here do we toil, that we might remember. By night we reclaim, what by day was stolen. Far from ourselves, he grows ever near to us. Our eyes once were blinded, now through him do we see. Our hands once were idle, now through them does he speak. And when the world shall listen, and when the world shall see, and when the world remembers, that world will cease to be. - Miraak3 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Removing aoe caps is the best thing that can happen to pvp. You won't see wrecking ball zergs anymore.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank4 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LonePirate wrote: »Every vampire in Cyrodiil is sharpening their fangs for the removal of AOE caps as that will essentially turn on a never ending Ultimate generator for them. If you're not a vampire, you will not be competitive in Cyrodiil and you might as well stick to the PVE zones.
Exactly what I am worried about
If it is true, that you only gain ultimate by using light and heavy attacks, then they will not generate endless ultimate. (so let'S hope it)
The worst thing is, that I despise vampires, werwolfs and any other kind of daedric spawn. I don't understand, how people can fall for the temptation to become one.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.4 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Removing aoe caps is the best thing that can happen to pvp. You won't see wrecking ball zergs anymore.
Sorry for double post. But I assume, we will see even more AoE zergs now. Because AoE's will become much more powerful. So we won't see anything else than AoE bomb groups. I could be wrong, but I'm sure, everyone will now run with AoE's and nothing but AoE's.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
pmn100b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭To clarify what ZoS said:
The cap is being raised from 6 to 60.
The first 6 targets will receive 100% damage.
The next 24 targets will receive 50% damage.
The final 30 targets will receive 25% damage.
3 -
killedbyping✭✭✭✭AOE cap are not removed. They are reworked.
Honestly, i dont think this will fix lagg problem happening with Zerg vs Zerg fights.
Right now server calculating who should take damage and who not.
After update 6 it will calculate who should recieve more damage and who should recieve less.
The principal is not changed. Still huge overload to server proccessing powers. Probably even bigger impact.Edited by killedbyping on December 24, 2014 5:57PM3 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭killedbyping wrote: »
The principal is not changed. Still huge overload to server proccessing powers. Probably even bigger impact.
Indeed.
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac my ward,
and Magnus my mind.0 -
NotSo✭✭✭✭Although I do wish that AoE caps were totally gone, I don't think I'm every going to nail more than 10 targets with one cast/siege.Gar'Sol the Wanderer VR14 Khajiit Sorcerer Spellblade0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ian92415b14_ESO wrote: »Although I do wish that AoE caps were totally gone, I don't think I'm every going to nail more than 10 targets with one cast/siege.
If the players who are worried about this change are any indication, there may well still be a number of people who group up close together in AoE Range then wonder how one person killed them all.
Lifting AoE caps is a great idea because it penalizes balling up and it rewards spreading out.
The solution to things like Standard and Batswarm at launch were to spread out and stay out of the damage area during the Ultimate.
The solution to things like Standard and Batswarm ever since launch has been to spread out and stay out of the damage area.
After 1.6 the solution will remain the same, but the penalty for not spreading out will be harsher, and the reward for spreading out will be greater. People running in zergballs will be running on a death sentence."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
1 -
Zed✭✭✭
Lifting AoE caps is a great idea because it penalizes balling up and it rewards spreading out.ian92415b14_ESO wrote: »Although I do wish that AoE caps were totally gone, I don't think I'm every going to nail more than 10 targets with one cast/siege.
It doesn't really decrease the effectiveness of having a bunch of people stack up and blasting AoEs though. If anything, it will let bomb groups deal more damage as their attacks will hit more people. Those groups will take more damage than they did before but the benefits to stacking will still outweigh the drawbacks.Spend spend spend! 'Cause you don't know any better.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Lifting AoE caps is a great idea because it penalizes balling up and it rewards spreading out.ian92415b14_ESO wrote: »Although I do wish that AoE caps were totally gone, I don't think I'm every going to nail more than 10 targets with one cast/siege.
It doesn't really decrease the effectiveness of having a bunch of people stack up and blasting AoEs though. If anything, it will let bomb groups deal more damage as their attacks will hit more people. Those groups will take more damage than they did before but the benefits to stacking will still outweigh the drawbacks.
As long as they maintain their plans to make heals only apply to capped targets while lifting the cap on all damaging AoEs, it will make stacked groups more difficult to maintain with more drawbacks than benefits.
Currently, stacking more than 6 people into the radius of an AoE means that much of the group will take massively reduced damage (ie: no damage at all from most attacks) due to not being hit, and they are incredibly easy to heal due to rate of healing being comparable to rate of incoming damage.
Both of these factors are going to be mitigated by the changes.
What will become more effective is small organized groups that will now deal damage to everyone in the large stack, while healers in the large group have difficulty keeping up.
The best way to cancel out the effectiveness of AoE skills in the current game is to bunch together as many people as possible into the AoE radius in order to exploit the cap and not take damage from attackers.
The best way to cancel out the effectiveness of AoE skills after 1.6 will be to spread out and minimize the number of players caught in AoE radius, draining the AoEr of resources with little reward.
People may still blob, but the largest incentives toward doing so will be gone and the stack will be significantly more difficult to maintain.
Cannot see blobbing remaining as the preferred playstyle. It is possible, but does not seem probable.
These considerations are also not even accounting for the new AvA bomb skill which will further penalize players stacked up too close together."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
Zed✭✭✭
Lifting AoE caps is a great idea because it penalizes balling up and it rewards spreading out.ian92415b14_ESO wrote: »Although I do wish that AoE caps were totally gone, I don't think I'm every going to nail more than 10 targets with one cast/siege.
It doesn't really decrease the effectiveness of having a bunch of people stack up and blasting AoEs though. If anything, it will let bomb groups deal more damage as their attacks will hit more people. Those groups will take more damage than they did before but the benefits to stacking will still outweigh the drawbacks.
What will become more effective is small organized groups that will now deal damage to everyone in the large stack, while healers in the large group have difficulty keeping up.
So you stack in order to defeat people stacking.Spend spend spend! 'Cause you don't know any better.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Lifting AoE caps is a great idea because it penalizes balling up and it rewards spreading out.ian92415b14_ESO wrote: »Although I do wish that AoE caps were totally gone, I don't think I'm every going to nail more than 10 targets with one cast/siege.
It doesn't really decrease the effectiveness of having a bunch of people stack up and blasting AoEs though. If anything, it will let bomb groups deal more damage as their attacks will hit more people. Those groups will take more damage than they did before but the benefits to stacking will still outweigh the drawbacks.
What will become more effective is small organized groups that will now deal damage to everyone in the large stack, while healers in the large group have difficulty keeping up.
So you stack in order to defeat people stacking.
Stacking in order to defeat people stacking is what happens in game presently, that is correct.
The best way to defeat a blob currently is to make a larger blob so that your team takes less damage from the enemy blob.
After 1.6 small non-stacking groups will have expanded means to deal with large stacks instead, while those that stack up will face greater difficulty."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I am looking forward to 1.6. Clumping 100 people into one big group is going to be a huge liability. Tactical groups will be much more encouraged.Edited by timidobserver on December 25, 2014 3:00AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)0 -
criscal✭✭✭Well, the one thing that needs to be done now is to have two zergs fighting on PTS and see how it works out, once 1.6 is installed there. I wish they had made a remark whether they actually tested the change with zergs
0 -
WhiskyBob✭✭✭✭✭Yes it is a good idea. This will counter all the zergballs in pvp.Edited by WhiskyBob on December 25, 2014 11:09AM0