Guild Store and Blind Bids
Fissh
✭✭✭✭✭
They are NOT blind!!!!! Anyone in my guild can see my bid, anyone. Recruits and all, no matter the permissions. This I know and tested. It leaves it open for spying.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
<X-Raided>
10
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Fissh✭✭✭✭✭@Kalman
Flattered that you would surf the intratube for a picture to express your thoughts. You should study liberal arts when you go to college.
However, it is only a 'dead horse' if we let it. This is an overly obvious problem that should be addressed and have community support.
Guild Masters should have a say in this, are you one?<X-Raided>3 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, @Fissh. We are aware of this issue and are working on a fix. Keep an eye on the patch notes for updates and thank you for your patience!
Thank you for the speedy response
<X-Raided>1 -
Divad Zarn✭✭✭They are NOT blind!!!!! Anyone in my guild can see my bid, anyone. Recruits and all, no matter the permissions. This I know and tested. It leaves it open for spying.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
I reported about this issue long time ago, early after update 3 release and receive reply that they will fix it.. one day, so still waiting
I fully agree with you, it will be good if we will be able to block that even with permissions, as well as message about for how much npc trader was hired/lost etc 1 -
Kalman✭✭✭✭@Kalman
Flattered that you would surf the intratube for a picture to express your thoughts. You should study liberal arts when you go to college.
However, it is only a 'dead horse' if we let it. This is an overly obvious problem that should be addressed and have community support.
Guild Masters should have a say in this, are you one?
@Fissh I am flabbergasted that you can't do a simple forum search to see that this topic has been discussed at length numerous times since Update 3 went live.
P.S. I have a son that will start university soon, but nice try at being cute.2 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭@Kalman
Flattered that you would surf the intratube for a picture to express your thoughts. You should study liberal arts when you go to college.
However, it is only a 'dead horse' if we let it. This is an overly obvious problem that should be addressed and have community support.
Guild Masters should have a say in this, are you one?
@Fissh I am flabbergasted that you can't do a simple forum search to see that this topic has been discussed at length numerous times since Update 3 went live.
P.S. I have a son that will start university soon, but nice try at being cute.
Sorry mate, you are the only "cute" example here. Good luck with your son in college.
<X-Raided>0 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭Divad Zarn wrote: »They are NOT blind!!!!! Anyone in my guild can see my bid, anyone. Recruits and all, no matter the permissions. This I know and tested. It leaves it open for spying.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
I reported about this issue long time ago, early after update 3 release and receive reply that they will fix it.. one day, so still waiting I fully agree with you, it will be good if we will be able to block that even with permissions, as well as message about for how much npc trader was hired/lost etc
Interesting. Well....lets bump this thread indefinitely until the fix actually happens. i.e. lets not let it be a "dead horse" ever again :P
<X-Raided>1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Odd. Because yesterday I was telling a fellow guild officer that he could just look at our page to see if a bid had been placed, and that made me think of checking the other guilds I'm in (2 of which have traders) and I couldn't see anything under the "traders" section of those guild pages. I assumed it was because of my permissions (I can't hire a trader in those guilds, obviously).
If you are in more than one guild that has a trader, can you see the trader info for the other guilds?The Moot Councillor0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If you are in more than one guild that has a trader, can you see the trader info for the other guilds?
Its in the History for the Guild, so you have to look soon after the bid was placed or other messages could push it down and off the list. I saw the bid one of my guilds placed on a Kiosk.
As for seeing if a Guild has a Kiosk, that's on the Home Page of the Guild accessed with the G key by default in the game.
Edited by Nestor on December 15, 2014 9:48PMEnjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, @Fissh. We are aware of this issue and are working on a fix. Keep an eye on the patch notes for updates and thank you for your patience!
Thank you for the speedy response
That was the exact same "speedy response" we got months ago when it was reported. PvP'ers think they're underappreciated. Try being a trade guild GM. A 5 minute fix takes 4+ months to implement.
1 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭They are NOT blind!!!!! Anyone in my guild can see my bid, anyone. Recruits and all, no matter the permissions. This I know and tested. It leaves it open for spying.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
In my opinion, this only serves to point out a big reason why I personally hate the kiosk system: it's unnecessarily competitive (guild vs guild) nature and adds an unnecessary layer of hostility to the game. It is why there is (at least) one guild-of-guild-leaders in existence; it in part serves to lessen this negative aspect of the kiosk system; members know which kiosks other members have and try not to bid against each other. It's sad.2 -
Hektlk✭✭✭The fact that the bid of a blind bid auction, is shown in guild history tab is literally the most terrible decision ever made.Potato Syndicate, IR, Havoc
Ebonheart Pact, North America
Hektík - VR14 Imperial Templar2 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭redspecter23 wrote: »ZOS_TristanK wrote: »Hi, @Fissh. We are aware of this issue and are working on a fix. Keep an eye on the patch notes for updates and thank you for your patience!
Thank you for the speedy response
That was the exact same "speedy response" we got months ago when it was reported. PvP'ers think they're underappreciated. Try being a trade guild GM. A 5 minute fix takes 4+ months to implement.
Right. So lets talk back and forth on this thread daily and keep it alive. I can't do a "b*mp" because it is against ESO forum policy, but we can keep the conversation alive without the "bu*p" word.
The object: NOT to let this "horse die".<X-Raided>1 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »They are NOT blind!!!!! Anyone in my guild can see my bid, anyone. Recruits and all, no matter the permissions. This I know and tested. It leaves it open for spying.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
In my opinion, this only serves to point out a big reason why I personally hate the kiosk system: it's unnecessarily competitive (guild vs guild) nature and adds an unnecessary layer of hostility to the game. It is why there is (at least) one guild-of-guild-leaders in existence; it in part serves to lessen this negative aspect of the kiosk system; members know which kiosks other members have and try not to bid against each other. It's sad.
I agree, partly. I like competition, if it is fair. No real blind bid is simply not fair. Limited number of viable kiosk drives up price and leaves trade guilds with a clear advantage, as their stores were populated before the kiosks were in game. However, I believe with some appropriate changes, things can be better. My guild, for one, is slowly becoming more relevant. Our theory: why contribute to a 'trade' guild when an actual guild (i.e. community of people who hang out in TS and play together) can have the same numbers (500) with the same inventory. By redirecting attention back to such a guild instead of trade guild, we can potentially build revenue to supplement members. Supplement: provide pots for progression runs, provide better rewards for guild events, provide possible repair costs to progression runs, etc, etc.. As of now, where does your trade guild revenue go? In someone's pocket? Some mild prizes for a raffle to generate more of YOUR funds? Come on, lets be guilds, not trade guilds. Lets take back the game from corporation type guilds.
First though, ESO needs to address concerns and in a timely manner. So keep this thread alive!!!<X-Raided>0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »They are NOT blind!!!!! Anyone in my guild can see my bid, anyone. Recruits and all, no matter the permissions. This I know and tested. It leaves it open for spying.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
In my opinion, this only serves to point out a big reason why I personally hate the kiosk system: it's unnecessarily competitive (guild vs guild) nature and adds an unnecessary layer of hostility to the game. It is why there is (at least) one guild-of-guild-leaders in existence; it in part serves to lessen this negative aspect of the kiosk system; members know which kiosks other members have and try not to bid against each other. It's sad.
I agree, partly. I like competition, if it is fair. No real blind bid is simply not fair. Limited number of viable kiosk drives up price and leaves trade guilds with a clear advantage, as their stores were populated before the kiosks were in game. However, I believe with some appropriate changes, things can be better. My guild, for one, is slowly becoming more relevant. Our theory: why contribute to a 'trade' guild when an actual guild (i.e. community of people who hang out in TS and play together) can have the same numbers (500) with the same inventory. By redirecting attention back to such a guild instead of trade guild, we can potentially build revenue to supplement members. Supplement: provide pots for progression runs, provide better rewards for guild events, provide possible repair costs to progression runs, etc, etc.. As of now, where does your trade guild revenue go? In someone's pocket? Some mild prizes for a raffle to generate more of YOUR funds? Come on, lets be guilds, not trade guilds. Lets take back the game from corporation type guilds.
First though, ESO needs to address concerns and in a timely manner. So keep this thread alive!!!
Well, in the interest of keeping this thread alive...
I think I understand where you are coming from. But the reality is that people have created "trade-only" guilds for a reason. That reason is to increase the market people have access to. It was in direct response to ZOS not doing what most other MMOs have figured out need to be done: an auction house. ZOS' response to small market exposure? Kiosks. I agree there should be competition but we differ, I think, in that I think the competition should be among the buyers/sells of merchandise, not among guilds. As far as "where does your trade guild revenue go? In someone's pocket?", why does there even have to be a guild cut in the first place?
On topic: if we must suffer kiosks and if the bidding should be blind, then make it truly blind. Sounds like ZOS is aware of that issue and will, hopefully, make the obvious fix.0 -
ZOS_UlyssesW✭✭✭Hi there, folks.
We wanted to clarify that while we do not allow thread bumping, you are welcome to keep the discussion alive as long as posts are constructive and continue to add to the conversation. Thanks for your understanding.0 -
Sandmanninja✭✭✭✭I've never been a fan of the kiosks. They are WAY too expensive to hire and you'd have to have incredibly active traders in your Guild to justify the expense the GM (and the entire Guild) cops to offer that service.
I'm in 2 friendly guilds, 2 trade guilds and a dungeon/questing guild. I seldom buy from guild stores, but the rare times I do need something, I get 99% of the 'stuff' I need from one of them.
It took me MONTHS before I wandered up to a guild kiosk and clicked on what they had.
I checked 10 random ones out recently and found that over half only had green items listed! 2 were really good - fairly priced items with some purples and the rest had insane prices.
My problem is... if you find a good guild kiosk, there is no guarantee that you'll find the same guild in the same spot at a later date.
Sooo... you either give up a guild you're in to ask for membership there OR just do without.
I have maxed all professions, so I craft almost everything I need in the game.
What items I loot, I De-Contruct for the mats. I have stacks of Legendary and Epic upgrade mats sitting, waiting for the 'right time' to use them.
I often make blue gear for my leveling toons, as he will get loot from drops as he levels that I'll just turn around and de-construct for his next set of gear.
Do many people buy/sell a LOT?
How do Guilds afford the kiosk fee?Edited by Sandmanninja on December 18, 2014 2:39AM[Hard Mode Dungeoneers] is recruiting all players of all levels for this new Guild.
THIS IS A NEW-BUT-GROWING GUILD. We are focused on doing vet pledges, vet dungeons, getting achieves, & doing hard mode bosses.
Most active GMT+10 (Australia time zone) in the afternoon Mon-Fri and all day Sat/Sun.
Pst/email for info/invites.1 -
timidobserver✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sandmanninja wrote: »I've never been a fan of the kiosks. They are WAY too expensive to hire and you'd have to have incredibly active traders in your Guild to justify the expense the GM (and the entire Guild) cops to offer that service.
I'm in 2 friendly guilds, 2 trade guilds and a dungeon/questing guild. I seldom buy from guild stores, but the rare times I do need something, I get 99% of the 'stuff' I need from one of them.
It took me MONTHS before I wandered up to a guild kiosk and clicked on what they had.
I checked 10 random ones out recently and found that over half only had green items listed! 2 were really good - fairly priced items with some purples and the rest had insane prices.
My problem is... if you find a good guild kiosk, there is no guarantee that you'll find the same guild in the same spot at a later date.
Sooo... you either give up a guild you're in to ask for membership there OR just do without.
I have maxed all professions, so I craft almost everything I need in the game.
What items I loot, I De-Contruct for the mats. I have stacks of Legendary and Epic upgrade mats sitting, waiting for the 'right time' to use them.
I often make blue gear for my leveling toons, as he will get loot from drops as he levels that I'll just turn around and de-construct for his next set of gear.
Do many people buy/sell a LOT?
How do Guilds afford the kiosk fee?
Once you start frequenting the guild stores you'll quickly begin to recognize the guild names of the better stores, and you begin to realize which zones tend to have the better guild stores. The better stores out there do tend to have some decent items and often at a decent price.
If your in the right trade guild that has a store in the right zone and know how to formulate a fair price, you can make quite a lot from a guild store.Edited by timidobserver on December 18, 2014 3:21AMV16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)1 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭Sandmanninja wrote: »I've never been a fan of the kiosks. They are WAY too expensive to hire and you'd have to have incredibly active traders in your Guild to justify the expense the GM (and the entire Guild) cops to offer that service.
I'm in 2 friendly guilds, 2 trade guilds and a dungeon/questing guild. I seldom buy from guild stores, but the rare times I do need something, I get 99% of the 'stuff' I need from one of them.
It took me MONTHS before I wandered up to a guild kiosk and clicked on what they had.
I checked 10 random ones out recently and found that over half only had green items listed! 2 were really good - fairly priced items with some purples and the rest had insane prices.
My problem is... if you find a good guild kiosk, there is no guarantee that you'll find the same guild in the same spot at a later date.
Sooo... you either give up a guild you're in to ask for membership there OR just do without.
I have maxed all professions, so I craft almost everything I need in the game.
What items I loot, I De-Contruct for the mats. I have stacks of Legendary and Epic upgrade mats sitting, waiting for the 'right time' to use them.
I often make blue gear for my leveling toons, as he will get loot from drops as he levels that I'll just turn around and de-construct for his next set of gear.
Do many people buy/sell a LOT?
How do Guilds afford the kiosk fee?
For a highly progressive player, guild stores are visited quit often. Theorycrafters are out there to get and try sets, or monopolize on a trending build. Daily Trial goers need potions....daily. Sure, maybe you can craft all your own, but it would take a long play day to achieve the mats for the amount of potions I consume. Training, speed, and progressive Trials on a daily basis puts my arse parked in front of guild kiosks or spamming in guild like a 'head'.
Concerning afford.....you would be surprised how much revenue comes from taxes with an ideal location. Couple that with revenue streams like raffling prizes for a ticket price or donation and the cost negates itself.
<X-Raided>2 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »OrangeTheCat wrote: »They are NOT blind!!!!! Anyone in my guild can see my bid, anyone. Recruits and all, no matter the permissions. This I know and tested. It leaves it open for spying.
We are a large PvE guild and are making a push on a solid location. Of course I am speculating, but there is a chance that someone is sharing our bid to another guild as a sort of "inside trade tip".
To be sure, there is something a Developer can do about this, correct? Make the "blind" actually fit that definition.
In my opinion, this only serves to point out a big reason why I personally hate the kiosk system: it's unnecessarily competitive (guild vs guild) nature and adds an unnecessary layer of hostility to the game. It is why there is (at least) one guild-of-guild-leaders in existence; it in part serves to lessen this negative aspect of the kiosk system; members know which kiosks other members have and try not to bid against each other. It's sad.
I agree, partly. I like competition, if it is fair. No real blind bid is simply not fair. Limited number of viable kiosk drives up price and leaves trade guilds with a clear advantage, as their stores were populated before the kiosks were in game. However, I believe with some appropriate changes, things can be better. My guild, for one, is slowly becoming more relevant. Our theory: why contribute to a 'trade' guild when an actual guild (i.e. community of people who hang out in TS and play together) can have the same numbers (500) with the same inventory. By redirecting attention back to such a guild instead of trade guild, we can potentially build revenue to supplement members. Supplement: provide pots for progression runs, provide better rewards for guild events, provide possible repair costs to progression runs, etc, etc.. As of now, where does your trade guild revenue go? In someone's pocket? Some mild prizes for a raffle to generate more of YOUR funds? Come on, lets be guilds, not trade guilds. Lets take back the game from corporation type guilds.
First though, ESO needs to address concerns and in a timely manner. So keep this thread alive!!!
Well, in the interest of keeping this thread alive...
I think I understand where you are coming from. But the reality is that people have created "trade-only" guilds for a reason. That reason is to increase the market people have access to. It was in direct response to ZOS not doing what most other MMOs have figured out need to be done: an auction house. ZOS' response to small market exposure? Kiosks. I agree there should be competition but we differ, I think, in that I think the competition should be among the buyers/sells of merchandise, not among guilds. As far as "where does your trade guild revenue go? In someone's pocket?", why does there even have to be a guild cut in the first place?
On topic: if we must suffer kiosks and if the bidding should be blind, then make it truly blind. Sounds like ZOS is aware of that issue and will, hopefully, make the obvious fix.
The competition should absolutely be among the buyers/sellers of merchandise, but AMONG guilds. I give you Belkarth for example. I am not currently logged ingame to give an exact count, but off the top of my head there are 3-4 Progression guild kiosks there. NOT Trade Guilds. Why? Because that is who own the merchandise. Gear that drops from DSA/Vet DSA and Trials, and their own crafters to boot. The competition is very much among guilds. I fully intend for my guild to be part of this competition in time.
As far a "market people have acces to", this market is accessible from any guild. The only vantage point to a trade guild that is viable in my eyes would be the density of crafters/farmers it may have. i.e. an ideal kiosk for 'stacks' of mats/potions/etc. Possibly some end-game gear. However, the majority of endgame to endgame'ish gear is at the progression guild's kiosk. Prior to kiosk, trade guilds made total sense. Kiosks availability makes trade guilds a redundancy with a community of actual guilds stepping up to the plate.
On topic: fully agree. I am no developer/programmer and thereby can't guess what would take so long for a fix. Rework of entire guild system, and fix will be with it? Hence the time? Guessing games. Regardless, I would suggest they push through something, even temporary, that addresses this. Complete removal of "Hire Traders" from the guild history tab is perfect solution to me. I made the bid that hurt my wallet, and will definitely remember its drain.....info window or not.
<X-Raided>1 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭Why hasn't this been addressed yet?
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Sandmanninja wrote: »snip...
How do Guilds afford the kiosk fee?
The one's I'm in have to hold raffles for purple items. I don't do anything like that in my trade guild, but I think that's how some guilds can afford asinine bids. Those of us who don't do that can't compete for the better locations.
Yeah, I think the kiosk system is a complete mess and one of the things I dislike the most about this game. Just my $0.02.0 -
OrangeTheCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭snip...
The competition should absolutely be among the buyers/sellers of merchandise, but AMONG guilds. I give you Belkarth for example. I am not currently logged ingame to give an exact count, but off the top of my head there are 3-4 Progression guild kiosks there. NOT Trade Guilds. Why? Because that is who own the merchandise. Gear that drops from DSA/Vet DSA and Trials, and their own crafters to boot. The competition is very much among guilds. I fully intend for my guild to be part of this competition in time.
As far a "market people have acces to", this market is accessible from any guild. The only vantage point to a trade guild that is viable in my eyes would be the density of crafters/farmers it may have. i.e. an ideal kiosk for 'stacks' of mats/potions/etc. Possibly some end-game gear. However, the majority of endgame to endgame'ish gear is at the progression guild's kiosk. Prior to kiosk, trade guilds made total sense. Kiosks availability makes trade guilds a redundancy with a community of actual guilds stepping up to the plate.
...snip
I don't see how any of that cannot be had with an auction house system. Why should a subset of guilds get these kiosks at the expense of others? Why not an auction house? Why can't we all benefit by selling our trials gear or whatever. In other words, I don't see what value the kiosk system brings to the market place above and beyond what an auction house brings.Edited by OrangeTheCat on December 19, 2014 12:08AM1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The whole "Raffle" to afford a kiosk things just pisses me off to no end. I left two of those major trade guilds because of the guilt trips and accusations they made against players who didn't play the raffles. I do NOT play video games to be yelled at by tinpot dictators who think they have the right to coerce you out of the money you've earned when your sales are already contributing to the guild bank as it is.@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
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Fissh✭✭✭✭✭OrangeTheCat wrote: »snip...
The competition should absolutely be among the buyers/sellers of merchandise, but AMONG guilds. I give you Belkarth for example. I am not currently logged ingame to give an exact count, but off the top of my head there are 3-4 Progression guild kiosks there. NOT Trade Guilds. Why? Because that is who own the merchandise. Gear that drops from DSA/Vet DSA and Trials, and their own crafters to boot. The competition is very much among guilds. I fully intend for my guild to be part of this competition in time.
As far a "market people have acces to", this market is accessible from any guild. The only vantage point to a trade guild that is viable in my eyes would be the density of crafters/farmers it may have. i.e. an ideal kiosk for 'stacks' of mats/potions/etc. Possibly some end-game gear. However, the majority of endgame to endgame'ish gear is at the progression guild's kiosk. Prior to kiosk, trade guilds made total sense. Kiosks availability makes trade guilds a redundancy with a community of actual guilds stepping up to the plate.
...snip
I don't see how any of that cannot be had with an auction house system. Why should a subset of guilds get these kiosks at the expense of others? Why not an auction house? Why can't we all benefit by selling our trials gear or whatever. In other words, I don't see what value the kiosk system brings to the market place above and beyond what an auction house brings.
The problem I see with the auction house is megaserver. With everyone playing the game having the same access, the market would be completely saturated. If not saturated, a too much to look at inventory. Meaning a hundred elegant shoes to scroll through to get to next item that is endlessly undercut.
Having your entire game population broken up into servers caters to auction houses. Your entire game population on one server does not.
<X-Raided>1 -
Fissh✭✭✭✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »The whole "Raffle" to afford a kiosk things just pisses me off to no end. I left two of those major trade guilds because of the guilt trips and accusations they made against players who didn't play the raffles. I do NOT play video games to be yelled at by tinpot dictators who think they have the right to coerce you out of the money you've earned when your sales are already contributing to the guild bank as it is.
Sadly, I agree. Though I have raffles, I try and stay away from guilt trips. However, when I have 20 people donate for raffle but 100+ ask "where is the guild store" when we lose a bid.....a guilt trip is in order. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why the system needs work, big time.
<X-Raided>1 -
SteveCampsOut✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭SteveCampsOut wrote: »The whole "Raffle" to afford a kiosk things just pisses me off to no end. I left two of those major trade guilds because of the guilt trips and accusations they made against players who didn't play the raffles. I do NOT play video games to be yelled at by tinpot dictators who think they have the right to coerce you out of the money you've earned when your sales are already contributing to the guild bank as it is.
Sadly, I agree. Though I have raffles, I try and stay away from guilt trips. However, when I have 20 people donate for raffle but 100+ ask "where is the guild store" when we lose a bid.....a guilt trip is in order. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why the system needs work, big time.
It's in order "For those 100 people". Not the entire guild. IE: Mass mailing the whole guild is a no no!@ֆȶɛʋɛƈǟʍքֆօʊȶ⍟
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