Why do we whinge so much about the game?

Barik · December 2014

Why does everyone complain so much about the game? Because we care.
Now I get those people just being trolls who just write something to get a negative reaction off other people.

But most people don't want to troll they just want to speak their mind about their perceived problem's with game.

I think we should stop putting down people so much for having an issue they don't like or maybe not understand.
Find out what it is they don't like, give tips on how they can individually improve what ever problem they are dealing with or even start a debate on a possible fix for an agreed problem.

Honestly I would encourage "whinging"if I was a developer. I would hire a team specifically for looking through forums and seeing what people dislikes, wants, etc.

I know many people are very loyal to the game but don't take it personal when someone complains try and make it constructive.

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

I personally don't mind that people have issues or complaints. Really complaining is the only way to get things to change for the better. But what annoys me is when anyone who says anything positive at all gets met with some sarcastic jerk comment and people calling the devs stupid and incompetent.

It's like "Yeah I get it there will be bugs with 1.6, doesn't mean I can't be happy about the champion system anyway". But some of the people on here are just so freaking negative and just straight bash the game. The games been out 8 months we all know what's going to happen, we all know how each patch is going to wind up, and we all have had plenty of chances to leave if we don't like it.

Sorry end of rant.

Wing · December 2014

Greater Internet F**kwad Theory

pretty much. . .plus human beings tend to focus on the negatives or bad points of any given situation, as its a survival mechanism.

and along that same line humans tend to remember the bad more then the good, if you give them a game that they win / loose 50% of the time they will hate it an remember loosing WAY more then winning.

grimsfield · December 2014

I work in a game studio on another MMO, and honestly, complaints are a very big reason for a lot of the changes that actually occur in our game. If 4 or 5 people complain about something, those people are largely ignored. If 200 people complain, then designers start to feel motivation for change.

In my opinion, complaining, even if negative, is one of the most constructive things you can do in a games forum.(This is of course only true, however, if the mods and devs recieve this criticism in a contructive manner and they don't just ignore it or blame the player or cop out in some other way) Complaints are some of the best sources for positive change, when taken in the right way. If all anyone ever did was say how great things were, than nothing would get better.

Lynx7386 · December 2014

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

badmojo · December 2014

What if someones problem with the game is something that attracted someone else to the game?

For example, I enjoy things like the non-centralized auction houses, the limited storage space, the rarity of some gear. But, the majority of forum posts associated with these things don't even take into consideration that people like me exist.

A lot of the whining on these forums isn't objective whining. They aren't looking to make the game better, they're looking to make it better for them. It's frustrating for the people who like the current design of the game, we're forced to defend the product we're happy with, and usually get dismissed as the minority, because there are more complaints than praise on the forums.

I swear this game would be in a better place if they didn't market it as an MMO, too many expectations with you MMO players.

dharbert · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Apparently, it's the Aussie and British way of spelling whine.

There are much worse offenses though. Imagine a world where people know the difference between your and you're, or then and than.

Lord_Kreegan · December 2014

If you bought a new shirt/blouse based on the packaging, and when you got it home found it was stained, had buttons missing, had tears, and smelled of B.O., you'd take it back to the store and complain to the management... and nobody would accuse you of whining.

To the contrary, everyone would think you're some kind of patsy if you didn't complain.

You buy a product; you have certain expectations about that product... and, generally, there are consumer protections in place to insure that you are getting appropriate value for your money and not being ripped off. If the product has been heavily advertised, there are expectations that the advertisements at least marginally represent the product truthfully.

Unfortunately, the laws to protect the consumer from fraud on the Internet either do not exist (depending on country) or are not enforced.

Complaining in forums is a viable way of warning other consumers of product defects and is a way to let the manufacturer of the product know that misrepresentation of the product in advertisements isn't going to be tolerated. Marketing departments, however, counter those complaints through use of so-called "viral marketing" (aka "shils" and company reps posing as posters in forums), the extent to which it is done very dependent on the ethics of the company [e.g., Turbine made extensive use of "posers" in their forums after they switched from subscription to a hybrid model.]

It's more effective, IMHO, to use the /feedback and /bug mechanisms provided in most games. If you want to vent, /feedback is quite useful. Let the emotions flow... moderators know how to send such venting to the wastebasket.

Barik · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

whinge: complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way.

Its a real word.

Barik · December 2014

badmojo wrote: »

What if someones problem with the game is something that attracted someone else to the game?

For example, I enjoy things like the non-centralized auction houses, the limited storage space, the rarity of some gear. But, the majority of forum posts associated with these things don't even take into consideration that people like me exist.

A lot of the whining on these forums isn't objective whining. They aren't looking to make the game better, they're looking to make it better for them. It's frustrating for the people who like the current design of the game, we're forced to defend the product we're happy with, and usually get dismissed as the minority, because there are more complaints than praise on the forums.

I swear this game would be in a better place if they didn't market it as an MMO, too many expectations with you MMO players.

I agree "they just want to speak their mind about their perceived problem's with game."

but they "maybe not understand" the mechanics.

phermitgb · December 2014

grimsfield wrote: »

I work in a game studio on another MMO, and honestly, complaints are a very big reason for a lot of the changes that actually occur in our game. If 4 or 5 people complain about something, those people are largely ignored. If 200 people complain, then designers start to feel motivation for change.

In my opinion, complaining, even if negative, is one of the most constructive things you can do in a games forum.(This is of course only true, however, if the mods and devs recieve this criticism in a contructive manner and they don't just ignore it or blame the player or cop out in some other way) Complaints are some of the best sources for positive change, when taken in the right way. If all anyone ever did was say how great things were, than nothing would get better.

while I would generally agree with the above statement, it leaves out an unfortunate 2nd half of the problem, that I've noticed...

MMO's by their nature try and target very large, very diverse populations - their general measure of success is to attract as many people as possible, which means they're frequently designed to try to appeal to the largest range of popular activities of the time

so, we get a game that includes solo content, includes group content, includes crafting, includes pvp elements, includes RP, etc, etc...

problem is, that many of the players of an MMO have relatively narrow ranges of things they want. Some people want more emphasis on vampires, werewolves - some people prefer PVP and want more development in that area - some people want more RP development, and so on

now, FORUMS typically become soapboxes for the most vocal, most zealous, and often MOST PREJUDICED members of each of these factions. These people often wander into the forums and declare THIS GAME WILL DIE IF YOU DON'T (develop the portion of the game I'm most interested in)!!! - or, HOW DARE YOU IGNORE (the portion of the game I'm most interested in) IN FAVOR OF (the portion of the game that other people are interested in)...

and so on

having watched the astonishingly vivid perpetual disaster that is Planetside 2 (a game I *love* to play, and has suffered tremendously from "listening to it's player base"), I've come to the realization that the most vocal segments of a player base are frighteningly divided

asking a developer/company to try and commit themselves to satisfying the insatiable and irreconcilably different desires of the most vocal player base is, I think, a terrible idea.

In short, the player base has next-to-no consensus on what it wants at any given moment, and often have no real appreciation for the consequences of the things they are demanding be done at any given moment. Constantly re-crafting your game to try and keep pace with the insatiable desires of the player base is setting yourself up for disaster, I feel, and so...

In short...No. In general, I don't think ZOS should be listening to the player base to redesign it's game. Sure, there are and can be valid ideas and suggestions out there, but I think it's a far better idea, for the developers and the company making the game to decide what THEY want the game experience to be like. They should be telling us "THIS IS WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN ESO IS GOING TO BE LIKE - PLAY IT IF YOU LIKE THAT, DON'T IF YOU DON'T" and

THEN

once the player base knows what the expected gameplay experience is supposed to be like, can offer informed opinions on how to achieve that goal.

a long winded rant, I know - but I've been watching lots of games basically unravel themselves in their attempt to try and appease the constantly shifting, constantly contradicting, player "input", and I'm getting tired of it - I'd like to just play a freakin' game for once and watch it stay out mostly what it started to be, instead of changing dramatically every year in an attempt to keep re-aligning itself with whatever the vocal playerbase keeps thinking it wants.

Barik · December 2014

phermitgb wrote: »

once the player base knows what the expected gameplay experience is supposed to be like then they can offer informed opinions on how to achieve that goal.

Completely agree, I suppose one way to handle it would be to track players that understand the experience, or have private forums for players that they invite to discuss such things

dharbert · December 2014

Barik wrote: »

phermitgb wrote: »

once the player base knows what the expected gameplay experience is supposed to be like then they can offer informed opinions on how to achieve that goal.

Completely agree, I suppose one way to handle it would be to track players that understand the experience, or have private forums for players that they invite to discuss such things

We already have guild summits, and that's bad enough. There's no way in hell I would play a game where the design direction and balance was dictated by a few players out of hundreds of thousands.

Barik · December 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Barik wrote: »

phermitgb wrote: »

once the player base knows what the expected gameplay experience is supposed to be like then they can offer informed opinions on how to achieve that goal.

Completely agree, I suppose one way to handle it would be to track players that understand the experience, or have private forums for players that they invite to discuss such things

We already have guild summits, and that's bad enough. There's no way in hell I would play a game where the design direction and balance was dictated by a few players out of hundreds of thousands.

The design direction and balance of the game should be dictated by the people who have been hired to do such thing.
That doesn't mean however they shouldn't take other's peoples ideas, comments etc into consideration.
If there is a genuinely good idea and the designer see's that it would work well into the system or improve a current system than he should hold a meeting with the designers, developers, etc and discuss those things that will genuinely make the game better in his eyes.

Mandragora · December 2014

I was thinking about it a lot and Im not sure it would help. Maybe some ideas cannot be shared - you have to be hardcore MMO player (like 10hours per a day) for atleast 1-2 years to understand what keeps players busy and satisfied at the game that long, to be able to make the right decisions how to improve your own game - so it would be your own decisions. And if they didnt experience that, even if 10 ppl would tell them, it will not change. And usually the ordinary devs know what would be good, but question is what they are able to push through.

I mean I like ESO - there are much worse MMOs, but I would change a few things to be able to play the game longer.

And I can understand why ppl are affraid the game would change to worse - I had to leave some MMO because of that, but most of the ideas could be OK for others if it wouldn't affect them.

OrangeTheCat · December 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Apparently, it's the Aussie and British way of spelling whine.

There are much worse offenses though. Imagine a world where people know the difference between your and you're, or then and than.

Less vs few. "could care less" vs "couldn't care less"

Just to add my pet peeves.

But on topic: complaining rarely changes anything in the real world of adults. Making a cogent argument why something needs to be changed or would be better if changed does work in the real adult world. Children whine and complain. Adults discuss.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Whinge is not Whine misspelt, you really need to expand your vocabulary.

Whine means to complain.
Whinge (rhymes with Hinge) means to complain in an aggravating or pointless manner.

Edit~Pronunciation of whine is to demonstrate difference in how Whinge is spoken.

Darkrogue671 · December 2014

I've beta tested a crap ton of games over the years (yes, I'm old) and there is a disconnection between the customer and the company. Here's what I've learned and I am happy to say it, but we are very blessed.

1. It is all planned! - Game producers have everything planned out (programming, testing, release dates, expected sales) before you ever hear about or see the game. If anything you are suggesting will alter those plans or delay them, forget it. It is not going to happen.

2. They weigh their options! - If there are changes that will placate customers they have to weigh that with projected sales or loss of sales. In other words, if it's not going to lose me customers but not gain me new customers, then why change it if it is going to take time and money?

3. They don't have to LISTEN to you! - Protected under the software licensing agreement laws, once you install it or open that package it's yours. Great advertising for a crappy game can still create great initial sales. I've worked for companies that closed, only to re-open under a different name making another crappy game. This law is outdated and ALL software companies would be structured differently if customers could return their product. The only reason why this is a law to begin with is because of piracy and we have to download all games now anyway, plus, business still have been pirating software all along despite that law which is rarely enforced.

4. It was written by a plumber! - Not really, but I want you to think about this: would you have an electrician do your dental work? Or a lawyer do your plumbing repairs? Probably not, but these individuals are programmers and developers. They are not writers and artisans. They are not movie screenplay writers and authors. They get musicians to do their music, but they will not pay for someone to come out with a kick-butt story line who will know all the nuances and characterizations that go into an epic tale. I happen to be a writer in high fantasy, so this was a tough lesson for me to learn and come to terms with.

We as customers do not know! - We don't know all the details that the developers have going on behind close door. We don't know about the code in detail and it's conflicts in certain issues that can or will arise if they give us what we want. Heck, sometimes, they don't even know until they try it and they can't please everyone all the time, so they have to pick their battles and try to make it work IF they are willing to do it at all.

And that's the blessing we have. The fact that they are willing to listen to their customer base at all is awesome. They don't have to. They don't have to have the support team they have. Most of the time in other companies, they go to an email bank in the nether that someone peruses every blue moon or so hell bent on the delete button.

So, be patient but be vocal. Never stop with the ideas because they may work and they may not work, but we'll never know if no one says anything. Who knows? Maybe a lot of players will like the idea and it can be implemented in the game! And unless you are on the development team, you don't know so do not act like you do.

AlexDougherty · December 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Apparently, it's the Aussie and British way of spelling whine.

There are much worse offenses though. Imagine a world where people know the difference between your and you're, or then and than.

Not quite, it's a related but seperate word.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · December 2014

dharbert wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Apparently, it's the Aussie and British way of spelling whine.

There are much worse offenses though. Imagine a world where people know the difference between your and you're, or then and than.

I could never envision that type of world.

Lord_Kreegan · December 2014

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Apparently, it's the Aussie and British way of spelling whine.

There are much worse offenses though. Imagine a world where people know the difference between your and you're, or then and than.

Less vs few. "could care less" vs "couldn't care less"

Just to add my pet peeves.

But on topic: complaining rarely changes anything in the real world of adults. Making a cogent argument why something needs to be changed or would be better if changed does work in the real adult world. Children whine and complain. Adults discuss.

Don't forget two, to, and too... and punctuation... and grammar... but these forums [all game forums] aren't exactly intended to be filled with literary masterpieces.

But, on topic: complaining, whining, and even whinging [I cringe when I read that, although I don't "crine"] all serve one very important purpose. They let people feel better about themselves.

Gamers hiding in their grandmothers' basements need something to feel good about, especially when they run out of Cheetos and Mountain Dew. ;-)

Darkrogue671 · December 2014

Lord_Kreegan wrote: »

Gamers hiding in their grandmothers' basements need something to feel good about, especially when they run out of Cheetos and Mountain Dew. ;-)

Thankfully, they disappear when the unemployment runs out. Unfortunately, they are replaced by two more. $:\$

Mandragora · December 2014

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

I've beta tested a crap ton of games over the years (yes, I'm old) and there is a disconnection between the customer and the company. Here's what I've learned and I am happy to say it, but we are very blessed.

1. It is all planned! - Game producers have everything planned out (programming, testing, release dates, expected sales) before you ever hear about or see the game. If anything you are suggesting will alter those plans or delay them, forget it. It is not going to happen.

2. They weigh their options! - If there are changes that will placate customers they have to weigh that with projected sales or loss of sales. In other words, if it's not going to lose me customers but not gain me new customers, then why change it if it is going to take time and money?

3. They don't have to LISTEN to you! - Protected under the software licensing agreement laws, once you install it or open that package it's yours. Great advertising for a crappy game can still create great initial sales. I've worked for companies that closed, only to re-open under a different name making another crappy game. This law is outdated and ALL software companies would be structured differently if customers could return their product. The only reason why this is a law to begin with is because of piracy and we have to download all games now anyway, plus, business still have been pirating software all along despite that law which is rarely enforced.

4. It was written by a plumber! - Not really, but I want you to think about this: would you have an electrician do your dental work? Or a lawyer do your plumbing repairs? Probably not, but these individuals are programmers and developers. They are not writers and artisans. They are not movie screenplay writers and authors. They get musicians to do their music, but they will not pay for someone to come out with a kick-butt story line who will know all the nuances and characterizations that go into an epic tale. I happen to be a writer in high fantasy, so this was a tough lesson for me to learn and come to terms with.

We as customers do not know! - We don't know all the details that the developers have going on behind close door. We don't know about the code in detail and it's conflicts in certain issues that can or will arise if they give us what we want. Heck, sometimes, they don't even know until they try it and they can't please everyone all the time, so they have to pick their battles and try to make it work IF they are willing to do it at all.

And that's the blessing we have. The fact that they are willing to listen to their customer base at all is awesome. They don't have to. They don't have to have the support team they have. Most of the time in other companies, they go to an email bank in the nether that someone peruses every blue moon or so hell bent on the delete button.

So, be patient but be vocal. Never stop with the ideas because they may work and they may not work, but we'll never know if no one says anything. Who knows? Maybe a lot of players will like the idea and it can be implemented in the game! And unless you are on the development team, you don't know so do not act like you do.

Thanks for your reply, really.
Maybe it would help if there could be more communication between devs and players? I know guild summits are for that, but what if you are a new player or without a guild and you just want to share how do you feel about the game - which is that kind of feedback that is probably wanted?

I don't know if the section "developer discussion" is for new ideas / some kind of feedback?

And you have to admit - if you work on a game for hours you don't have to notice things that a new player can?

Because I know devs are professionals and all, but how is the game for a player can be really different.

Then it can turns to whine - if they don't get any reply.

dharbert · December 2014

Mandragora wrote: »

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

I've beta tested a crap ton of games over the years (yes, I'm old) and there is a disconnection between the customer and the company. Here's what I've learned and I am happy to say it, but we are very blessed.

1. It is all planned! - Game producers have everything planned out (programming, testing, release dates, expected sales) before you ever hear about or see the game. If anything you are suggesting will alter those plans or delay them, forget it. It is not going to happen.

2. They weigh their options! - If there are changes that will placate customers they have to weigh that with projected sales or loss of sales. In other words, if it's not going to lose me customers but not gain me new customers, then why change it if it is going to take time and money?

3. They don't have to LISTEN to you! - Protected under the software licensing agreement laws, once you install it or open that package it's yours. Great advertising for a crappy game can still create great initial sales. I've worked for companies that closed, only to re-open under a different name making another crappy game. This law is outdated and ALL software companies would be structured differently if customers could return their product. The only reason why this is a law to begin with is because of piracy and we have to download all games now anyway, plus, business still have been pirating software all along despite that law which is rarely enforced.

4. It was written by a plumber! - Not really, but I want you to think about this: would you have an electrician do your dental work? Or a lawyer do your plumbing repairs? Probably not, but these individuals are programmers and developers. They are not writers and artisans. They are not movie screenplay writers and authors. They get musicians to do their music, but they will not pay for someone to come out with a kick-butt story line who will know all the nuances and characterizations that go into an epic tale. I happen to be a writer in high fantasy, so this was a tough lesson for me to learn and come to terms with.

We as customers do not know! - We don't know all the details that the developers have going on behind close door. We don't know about the code in detail and it's conflicts in certain issues that can or will arise if they give us what we want. Heck, sometimes, they don't even know until they try it and they can't please everyone all the time, so they have to pick their battles and try to make it work IF they are willing to do it at all.

And that's the blessing we have. The fact that they are willing to listen to their customer base at all is awesome. They don't have to. They don't have to have the support team they have. Most of the time in other companies, they go to an email bank in the nether that someone peruses every blue moon or so hell bent on the delete button.

So, be patient but be vocal. Never stop with the ideas because they may work and they may not work, but we'll never know if no one says anything. Who knows? Maybe a lot of players will like the idea and it can be implemented in the game! And unless you are on the development team, you don't know so do not act like you do.

Thanks for your reply, really.
Maybe it would help if there could be more communication between devs and players? I know guild summits are for that, but what if you are a new player or without a guild and you just want to share how do you feel about the game - which is that kind of feedback that is probably wanted?

I don't know if the section "developer discussion" is for new ideas / some kind of feedback?

And you have to admit - if you work on a game for hours you don't have to notice things that a new player can?

Because I know devs are professionals and all, but how is the game for a player can be really different.

Then it can turns to whine - if they don't get any reply.

That's what the in-game /Feedback function is for.

Mandragora · December 2014

And about the new players that want something different then what is in the game already (like small joinable factions -my part) : wouldn't it bring more players, wouldn't it make the world more rich? Isn't it better to have in the game different kind of players if it is still RPG and lore friendly? And also if it could bring back some of fans of Elderscrolls?
Maybe ZOS have their reasons for not implement it but they never said.

/feedback function isn't enough

NordJitsu · December 2014

grimsfield wrote: »

I work in a game studio on another MMO, and honestly, complaints are a very big reason for a lot of the changes that actually occur in our game. If 4 or 5 people complain about something, those people are largely ignored. If 200 people complain, then designers start to feel motivation for change.

I get why this is the case but I think that the validity of the argument you should be taken into account as well and it often isn't.

Sometimes, there are a large chunk of players complaining about something and they're completely wrong. Other times, there are a few people making intelligent observations and they're completely right.

But the first group is almost always listened to while the latter is ignored.

Good devs should be able to tell the difference between good and bad feedback and they should be able to stand up to largish groups of whinny players for the good of their game.

Caving to the whim of any cause that can get 200 people behind it isn't good game design and it leads to a lot of pissed of people in the long run.

Remember that not all players come to the forums and that, when players do come to the forums, they're more likely to visit threads on a topic they care about.

So if there are 200 people in one thread complaining about something, there may be 50 people in that thread disagreeing with them. But there may be another 50 on the forums who don't go to that thread but would disagree. Then there are 1,000 who disagree with the 200 but don't visit the forum at all.

This is especially true with balance changes.

ZoS has made a lot of poor balance decisions in response to 200 people complaining that ____ is OP.

It's a terrible strategy and doesn't lead to a balanced game. Just a lot of frustrated players who have to change their builds every time ZoS caves to the whining.

kevlarto_ESO · December 2014

It's not just games, go to any movie forum site or even music, you can remove the name of what ever song or movie they are complaining about about and insert xxxx game, all the complaints sound the same.

I think some folks think their ideas would help improve the game and I am sure there are many good ideas out there, some folks just like to ride the hate train because they thinks its cool, but I think we as humans just like to complain..I dunno

Lord_Kreegan · December 2014

NordJitsu wrote: »

<--SNIP-->
Good devs should be able to tell the difference between good and bad feedback and they should be able to stand up to largish groups of whinny players for the good of their game.

First off, just for the fun of it, if you're British or Australian, is that "whingeny" instead of "whinny"? Just want to understand how ya'll speak across the two ponds; obviously not the same as we do here in the Great Republic of Texas...

On a serious note: any good development team (for any sort of product) has a "Keeper of the Vision" who has final say on what gets changed and what doesn't. The Keeper of the Vision has the authority to tell the marketing department, CM team, programmers, and designers to pound sand. It is the responsibility of the Keeper of the Vision to insure that the game stays true to its original design document.

Of course, the Keeper of the Vision can be fired like any other employee... you can't be totally inflexible.

c0rp · December 2014

People whine when things that are so obviously broken (Impenetrability, PVP lag for example) remain broken for months and months and months with nothing done about it.

Darkrogue671 · December 2014

What I've discovered in the P2P MMO games that tends to be the Achilles heel is the lack of flexibility of the product to the demands of the marketplace. Whether or not the MMO can be flexible to meet those demands depends heavily on the flexibility of the engine, of course, but a dev team that isn't afraid to make those changes wherever possible to meet demand is a trait that spells success in the long run.

You have no idea how many times I heard "that's just the way it is" or "we're not going to do that" if I heard anything at all. I couldn't understand it since I was speaking from a consumer's point of view, but that was the path they chose. Again, all of those projects failed miserably. The fact that ZoS isn't afraid to take input from their customers is a huge plus. Like the Kreegan said, ultimately it will be up to the highest power to make the right decision on what changes make the cut. My point is that if the change isn't suggested, you cannot rely that they will see it or come up with the same idea. Don't WAIT for that idea to happen. Throw it on the wall and see if it sticks.

EDIT: I was just informed. There are TWO "E's" in "Kreegan". Yes, I know. Movie reference. Edit done.

Lord_Kreegan · December 2014

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

EDIT: I was just informed. There are TWO "E's" in "Kreegan". Yes, I know. Movie reference. Edit done.

The name comes from the first character I ever played in D&D in one of the very first D&D groups (four decades ago; yes, I'm an old fart) when I was a young 2nd Lieutenant. It's a deliberate mispelling of a Gaelic term.

Not from a movie (for me)...

I used it the first time in a MMORPG back in December, 2004, and evidently others liked it... I've seen it pop up again and again since then.

It's usage as "Lord Kreegan" is actually copyrighted; it is a character in one of my books (I started writing after I retired four years ago). But I'm not particular about its use...