Greater Internet F**kwad Theory

pretty much. . .plus human beings tend to focus on the negatives or bad points of any given situation, as its a survival mechanism.

and along that same line humans tend to remember the bad more then the good, if you give them a game that they win / loose 50% of the time they will hate it an remember loosing WAY more then winning.

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

whinge: complain persistently and in a peevish or irritating way.

Its a real word.

grimsfield wrote: »

I work in a game studio on another MMO, and honestly, complaints are a very big reason for a lot of the changes that actually occur in our game. If 4 or 5 people complain about something, those people are largely ignored. If 200 people complain, then designers start to feel motivation for change.

In my opinion, complaining, even if negative, is one of the most constructive things you can do in a games forum.(This is of course only true, however, if the mods and devs recieve this criticism in a contructive manner and they don't just ignore it or blame the player or cop out in some other way) Complaints are some of the best sources for positive change, when taken in the right way. If all anyone ever did was say how great things were, than nothing would get better.

while I would generally agree with the above statement, it leaves out an unfortunate 2nd half of the problem, that I've noticed...

MMO's by their nature try and target very large, very diverse populations - their general measure of success is to attract as many people as possible, which means they're frequently designed to try to appeal to the largest range of popular activities of the time

so, we get a game that includes solo content, includes group content, includes crafting, includes pvp elements, includes RP, etc, etc...

problem is, that many of the players of an MMO have relatively narrow ranges of things they want. Some people want more emphasis on vampires, werewolves - some people prefer PVP and want more development in that area - some people want more RP development, and so on

now, FORUMS typically become soapboxes for the most vocal, most zealous, and often MOST PREJUDICED members of each of these factions. These people often wander into the forums and declare THIS GAME WILL DIE IF YOU DON'T (develop the portion of the game I'm most interested in)!!! - or, HOW DARE YOU IGNORE (the portion of the game I'm most interested in) IN FAVOR OF (the portion of the game that other people are interested in)...

and so on

having watched the astonishingly vivid perpetual disaster that is Planetside 2 (a game I *love* to play, and has suffered tremendously from "listening to it's player base"), I've come to the realization that the most vocal segments of a player base are frighteningly divided

asking a developer/company to try and commit themselves to satisfying the insatiable and irreconcilably different desires of the most vocal player base is, I think, a terrible idea.

In short, the player base has next-to-no consensus on what it wants at any given moment, and often have no real appreciation for the consequences of the things they are demanding be done at any given moment. Constantly re-crafting your game to try and keep pace with the insatiable desires of the player base is setting yourself up for disaster, I feel, and so...

In short...No. In general, I don't think ZOS should be listening to the player base to redesign it's game. Sure, there are and can be valid ideas and suggestions out there, but I think it's a far better idea, for the developers and the company making the game to decide what THEY want the game experience to be like. They should be telling us "THIS IS WHAT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN ESO IS GOING TO BE LIKE - PLAY IT IF YOU LIKE THAT, DON'T IF YOU DON'T" and

THEN

once the player base knows what the expected gameplay experience is supposed to be like, can offer informed opinions on how to achieve that goal.

a long winded rant, I know - but I've been watching lots of games basically unravel themselves in their attempt to try and appease the constantly shifting, constantly contradicting, player "input", and I'm getting tired of it - I'd like to just play a freakin' game for once and watch it stay out mostly what it started to be, instead of changing dramatically every year in an attempt to keep re-aligning itself with whatever the vocal playerbase keeps thinking it wants.

I was thinking about it a lot and Im not sure it would help. Maybe some ideas cannot be shared - you have to be hardcore MMO player (like 10hours per a day) for atleast 1-2 years to understand what keeps players busy and satisfied at the game that long, to be able to make the right decisions how to improve your own game - so it would be your own decisions. And if they didnt experience that, even if 10 ppl would tell them, it will not change. And usually the ordinary devs know what would be good, but question is what they are able to push through.

I mean I like ESO - there are much worse MMOs, but I would change a few things to be able to play the game longer.

And I can understand why ppl are affraid the game would change to worse - I had to leave some MMO because of that, but most of the ideas could be OK for others if it wouldn't affect them.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Whinge is not Whine misspelt, you really need to expand your vocabulary.

Whine means to complain.
Whinge (rhymes with Hinge) means to complain in an aggravating or pointless manner.

Edit~Pronunciation of whine is to demonstrate difference in how Whinge is spoken.

dharbert wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why does everyone on every gaming forum across the internet spell whine wrong.

Apparently, it's the Aussie and British way of spelling whine.

There are much worse offenses though. Imagine a world where people know the difference between your and you're, or then and than.

Not quite, it's a related but seperate word.

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

I've beta tested a crap ton of games over the years (yes, I'm old) and there is a disconnection between the customer and the company. Here's what I've learned and I am happy to say it, but we are very blessed.

1. It is all planned! - Game producers have everything planned out (programming, testing, release dates, expected sales) before you ever hear about or see the game. If anything you are suggesting will alter those plans or delay them, forget it. It is not going to happen.

2. They weigh their options! - If there are changes that will placate customers they have to weigh that with projected sales or loss of sales. In other words, if it's not going to lose me customers but not gain me new customers, then why change it if it is going to take time and money?

3. They don't have to LISTEN to you! - Protected under the software licensing agreement laws, once you install it or open that package it's yours. Great advertising for a crappy game can still create great initial sales. I've worked for companies that closed, only to re-open under a different name making another crappy game. This law is outdated and ALL software companies would be structured differently if customers could return their product. The only reason why this is a law to begin with is because of piracy and we have to download all games now anyway, plus, business still have been pirating software all along despite that law which is rarely enforced.

4. It was written by a plumber! - Not really, but I want you to think about this: would you have an electrician do your dental work? Or a lawyer do your plumbing repairs? Probably not, but these individuals are programmers and developers. They are not writers and artisans. They are not movie screenplay writers and authors. They get musicians to do their music, but they will not pay for someone to come out with a kick-butt story line who will know all the nuances and characterizations that go into an epic tale. I happen to be a writer in high fantasy, so this was a tough lesson for me to learn and come to terms with.

We as customers do not know! - We don't know all the details that the developers have going on behind close door. We don't know about the code in detail and it's conflicts in certain issues that can or will arise if they give us what we want. Heck, sometimes, they don't even know until they try it and they can't please everyone all the time, so they have to pick their battles and try to make it work IF they are willing to do it at all.

And that's the blessing we have. The fact that they are willing to listen to their customer base at all is awesome. They don't have to. They don't have to have the support team they have. Most of the time in other companies, they go to an email bank in the nether that someone peruses every blue moon or so hell bent on the delete button.

So, be patient but be vocal. Never stop with the ideas because they may work and they may not work, but we'll never know if no one says anything. Who knows? Maybe a lot of players will like the idea and it can be implemented in the game! And unless you are on the development team, you don't know so do not act like you do.

Thanks for your reply, really.
Maybe it would help if there could be more communication between devs and players? I know guild summits are for that, but what if you are a new player or without a guild and you just want to share how do you feel about the game - which is that kind of feedback that is probably wanted?

I don't know if the section "developer discussion" is for new ideas / some kind of feedback?

And you have to admit - if you work on a game for hours you don't have to notice things that a new player can?

Because I know devs are professionals and all, but how is the game for a player can be really different.

Then it can turns to whine - if they don't get any reply.

And about the new players that want something different then what is in the game already (like small joinable factions -my part) : wouldn't it bring more players, wouldn't it make the world more rich? Isn't it better to have in the game different kind of players if it is still RPG and lore friendly? And also if it could bring back some of fans of Elderscrolls?
Maybe ZOS have their reasons for not implement it but they never said.

/feedback function isn't enough

It's not just games, go to any movie forum site or even music, you can remove the name of what ever song or movie they are complaining about about and insert xxxx game, all the complaints sound the same.

I think some folks think their ideas would help improve the game and I am sure there are many good ideas out there, some folks just like to ride the hate train because they thinks its cool, but I think we as humans just like to complain..I dunno

People whine when things that are so obviously broken (Impenetrability, PVP lag for example) remain broken for months and months and months with nothing done about it.