Vampirism needs to be redone

poodlemasterb16_ESO · December 2014

A lot of us stay at stage 4 because the costs to use Vampire abilities are so low and Unnatural Resistance becomes more effective. A stage 4 Vampire can Drain almost for free.

As well, any useful Vampire will have learned how to deal with fire and poor Health Regen.

At higher levels Vampirism becomes less useful but it's very powerful through to about level 50, or so, depending on how you use it.

Potenza · December 2014

.....
Edit. Oops wrong thread.

MornaBaine · December 2014

My vampire Provisioner will be unhappy if the food she makes is no longer something she herself can eat! LOL "In character" I claim she can eat it because it is magically enhanced to leave her vampire metabolism unscathed. LOL I guess if we got 100% immunity to all disease and poison attacks though it would be fair. Then I'd just say she cooks because she still likes the smell of sweetrolls.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · December 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of us stay at stage 4 because the costs to use Vampire abilities are so low and Unnatural Resistance becomes more effective. A stage 4 Vampire can Drain almost for free.

As well, any useful Vampire will have learned how to deal with fire and poor Health Regen.

At higher levels Vampirism becomes less useful but it's very powerful through to about level 50, or so, depending on how you use it.

unnatural resistance stays the same regardless of stage

poodlemasterb16_ESO · December 2014

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of us stay at stage 4 because the costs to use Vampire abilities are so low and Unnatural Resistance becomes more effective. A stage 4 Vampire can Drain almost for free.

As well, any useful Vampire will have learned how to deal with fire and poor Health Regen.

At higher levels Vampirism becomes less useful but it's very powerful through to about level 50, or so, depending on how you use it.

unnatural resistance stays the same regardless of stage

I don't believe so. The tooltip may be misleading. It was fixed a while ago I think.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · December 2014

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

A lot of us stay at stage 4 because the costs to use Vampire abilities are so low and Unnatural Resistance becomes more effective. A stage 4 Vampire can Drain almost for free.

As well, any useful Vampire will have learned how to deal with fire and poor Health Regen.

At higher levels Vampirism becomes less useful but it's very powerful through to about level 50, or so, depending on how you use it.

unnatural resistance stays the same regardless of stage

I don't believe so. The tooltip may be misleading. It was fixed a while ago I think.

I don't read the tooltip or even understand what the pictures on them are about...I read from the effect that takes place in the spell that unnatural resistance will come into effect when you are below 30% health and you will be harder to damage the lower your health gets.

ShadowHvo · December 2014

I believe the reasoning for the vampires to generally become stronger is that they get more desperate and therefore grow more feral like so they have an easier time taking down their prey for their precious blood.

Honestly it works fine with how it is, however the fire-damage should hit harder on a Stage 4 than a Stage 1. Making that scaleable would make staying in Stage 1 quite a good thing for most players.

OrphanHelgen · December 2014

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Yet another player who doesn't realize that this game isn't only PvP, and any change made to any skill line affects both PvP AND PvE. Vamps are fine, and have been nerfed twice already.

so a 10% increase in stats at night wont benefit PvE or 5% stronger skills when fully fed? it was not until 2 days ago did I consume the first food item and I am Vr14 Sorceror and was doing fine before that if you rely on food to get you through the game then you obviously need practice.

Wow.. What did I just read? Guy that doesn't eat food, just hit vet14, and telling the community that they don't know how to play when they always consume food? Can the school pls start again.. ??!! We grown ups are getting tired here.

timidobserver · December 2014

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

It does make sense that disease damage wouldn't impact vampires.

well they cant contract lycanthopy from werewolves so yeah infact werewolves should also be 100% immune to disease.

I don't know much about lycanthropy in ESO lore. I do know that the dead shouldn't be contracting diseases though lol.

Darkonflare15 · December 2014

Only thing I would want change about vampires is the penalty and some of the skills to make them a little more unique. If passives rely on Day/night cycle, they need to make night last longer first. If not then they do not need to focus on it. Now I find 100% resistance to disease and poison is kind of pointless since disease in eso is completely different than disease in the past elder scrolls games. You could actually get diseases from animals and monsters that could impede your stats. In this game disease is status effect and this effect only prohibits health regen for a little bit. Now I have no problem if they make changes like this but if they do something like this they need to change it to actually getting diseases and for us to have multiple different poisons for this to be effective.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · December 2014

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Only thing I would want change about vampires is the penalty and some of the skills to make them a little more unique. If passives rely on Day/night cycle, they need to make night last longer first. If not then they do not need to focus on it. Now I find 100% resistance to disease and poison is kind of pointless since disease in eso is completely different than disease in the past elder scrolls games. You could actually get diseases from animals and monsters that could impede your stats. In this game disease is status effect and this effect only prohibits health regen for a little bit. Now I have no problem if they make changes like this but if they do something like this they need to change it to actually getting diseases and for us to have multiple different poisons for this to be effective.

clearly you have not heard of Disease damage, their are enchantments that do that.

TX12001rwb17_ESO · December 2014

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Yet another player who doesn't realize that this game isn't only PvP, and any change made to any skill line affects both PvP AND PvE. Vamps are fine, and have been nerfed twice already.

so a 10% increase in stats at night wont benefit PvE or 5% stronger skills when fully fed? it was not until 2 days ago did I consume the first food item and I am Vr14 Sorceror and was doing fine before that if you rely on food to get you through the game then you obviously need practice.

Wow.. What did I just read? Guy that doesn't eat food, just hit vet14, and telling the community that they don't know how to play when they always consume food? Can the school pls start again.. ??!! We grown ups are getting tired here.

(Sarcasm alert!!) Wow calling someone a kid how mature of you, you must feel like a big man....look I ain't a kid and I can get through the game without Food or Potions as I have done for the past 7 Months and intend to do for many more. I am just proving I don't need them because I have the skill to compensate for them.

Darkonflare15 · December 2014

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Only thing I would want change about vampires is the penalty and some of the skills to make them a little more unique. If passives rely on Day/night cycle, they need to make night last longer first. If not then they do not need to focus on it. Now I find 100% resistance to disease and poison is kind of pointless since disease in eso is completely different than disease in the past elder scrolls games. You could actually get diseases from animals and monsters that could impede your stats. In this game disease is status effect and this effect only prohibits health regen for a little bit. Now I have no problem if they make changes like this but if they do something like this they need to change it to actually getting diseases and for us to have multiple different poisons for this to be effective.

clearly you have not heard of Disease damage, their are enchantments that do that.

Yes I know of this damage I have used disease enchantments before and this damage is basically is just status damage. If they make vampire 100 % disease resistant because of lore, than Argonians and Bosmer should be 100 % disease resistant as well. Since they both are resistant to poison and disease by 50% already.
By making vampire resistant to disease would just be a huge buff to anybody who is not these races. Why should I be either of the 2 races if I can be Dummer vampire with resistant to fire to knock down the weakness a little with full on resistance to both disease and poison without trying.

I say if you really want the resistance than use the glyphs.

Gidorick · December 2014

How about they leave Vampirism alone for now and work oh adding systems to the game. This incessant tinkering with the systems we have is stifling growth!

MornaBaine · December 2014

Gidorick wrote: »

How about they leave Vampirism alone for now and work oh adding systems to the game. This incessant tinkering with the systems we have is stifling growth!

While I agree with that I also have to say that vampires and yes, even werewolves still after their overhaul, are still pretty much broken. As long as that remains the case I will continue to support further attention to them until ZOS finally gets it right.

killedbyping · December 2014

Does any1 have same issue with Vampirism like me ?
I have 2 characters with Vaampirism stage 4.
first is Khajiit NB, second is Dunmer DK.
Khajiit have nearly 0 health regen even when out of combat.
Dk regen just fine, like he never had vampirism.

Both character sheets show 18 health regen at vampirism stage 4.

How is it possible, that same number of regen value work different way on 2 difefrent characters ?
Needless to say, that it is Khajiit who have 30% increased Health regen among his passive. Still his Health regen almost doesnt work.

MornaBaine · December 2014

killedbyping wrote: »

Does any1 have same issue with Vampirism like me ?
I have 2 characters with Vaampirism stage 4.
first is Khajiit NB, second is Dunmer DK.
Khajiit have nearly 0 health regen even when out of combat.
Dk regen just fine, like he never had vampirism.

Both character sheets show 18 health regen at vampirism stage 4.

How is it possible, that same number of regen value work different way on 2 difefrent characters ?
Needless to say, that it is Khajiit who have 30% increased Health regen among his passive. Still his Health regen almost doesnt work.

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that their vampirism is NOT working as intended but reports tend to vary so it's tough to pin down a common thread. It would be nice if we could get a thread going here where players detail the problems they are having with their vampires so that maybe some consensus could be reached and we might be able to get some action on the issue.

Blonde_Ambition93 · January 2015

Audigy wrote: »

I like the idea of sunlight and moonlight that you suggested, sadly ES players are not interested in lore - at least many of those who play a vampire. They pick them due Twilight "lore" and there every Vampire can have a picnic in the park...

Trying to explain to them that Vampires should not easily walk around during day is very hard to say the least.

Good luck trying to talk sense into people.

I cared alot about vampiric lore since I started player ES games

I was actually really disappointed that I couldn't get infected with Porphyric hemophilia

I loved the Cyrodiilic species of vampire...

MornaBaine · January 2015

Blonde_Ambition93 wrote: »

Audigy wrote: »

I like the idea of sunlight and moonlight that you suggested, sadly ES players are not interested in lore - at least many of those who play a vampire. They pick them due Twilight "lore" and there every Vampire can have a picnic in the park...

Trying to explain to them that Vampires should not easily walk around during day is very hard to say the least.

Good luck trying to talk sense into people.

I cared alot about vampiric lore since I started player ES games
I was actually really disappointed that I couldn't get infected with Porphyric hemophilia

I loved the Cyrodiilic species of vampire...

I started a thread asking players to see if they wanted additional vampire strains added and how they would like to see them implemented. This apparently required more brain work than anyone was willing to put in and it got ZERO responses. Of course that might also have something to do with the rather widely held perception that ZOS themselves hate vampires and are going to continue to refuse to do ANYTHING for them (aside from more nerfs) so giving them ideas is pretty much a waste of time. After all, they've ignored all the other requests for improving vampires that have been posted.

I've asked that we get a "Cyrodiilic Vampire" costume in the cash shop that will let your vampire look like they did BEFORE becoming infected with vampirism. MAYBE they'll be willing to do at least that much if they can also make us pay for it.

JamilaRaj · January 2015

They could also sell vamp bites in cash shop. Or as bundle with disguise at discount price.

Lokryn · January 2015

I wish we had fangs....

Korah_Eaglecry · January 2015

Unlike a normal RPG like past TES this is an MMO. And some things, including breaking of lore, must be observed for balance.

Forcing players to only go out during the night time portion of the game limits them to the point of possibly not being able to log in that day...Thats a problem as these are people *currently* paying a subscription for.

MornaBaine · January 2015

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Unlike a normal RPG like past TES this is an MMO. And some things, including breaking of lore, must be observed for balance.

Forcing players to only go out during the night time portion of the game limits them to the point of possibly not being able to log in that day...Thats a problem as these are people *currently* paying a subscription for.

While true there are also many ways it could have been mitigated. Potions, passives, no damage taken indoors or in dungeons, requiring them to be in Stage 1 (and that with a longer timer!) to avoid damage. These things would have made vampires playable during the day but would have also made them more challenging. If they'd given them more "downsides" to balance their power instead of just nerfing them into the ground later not everyone and their dog would have insisted on playing them and they would have been balanced.

Digiman · January 2015

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

As a Powerful and Most likely infamous Vampire in Tamriel I have an Idea that may improve Vampirism greatly and perhaps cut down the number's a Bit and at the same time make vampire's more feared....many of you know Vampirism in ESO is considered by some to be OP (Over Powered) and by other's to be UP (Under Powered) now I have thought this through long and hard and have come up with ideas to how to cater to both people...
Feeding in PvP

Problem - Feeding is considered by those in PvP to be "Annoying" as vampire's have figured out how to utilize it best to their advantage including myself of course, this mainly concerns DKs of all classes at their tanking abilities are why Vampire's are more lily to go after them then any other class and people seem to hate this.

Solution - A Cooldown on someone who has been fed on so no vampire is able to feed on them again for at least 30 Minutes to an Hour or have it possible to be broken out of but in turn have it deal the same damage as Drain Essence and whatever effects on morphs are present. (As lets be honest after losing that much blood you should be very hurt)
Sunlight

Problem - Sunlight regardless of whatever it says is still inconsistent, some say the vampires in ESO are immune to sunlight because they are "special" well that is no excuse as you are still a lesser vampire when compared to what you can become in Skyrim and even still you have a weakness to Sunlight as should ALL vampire's, no excuse's

Solution - Add a 10% reduction of Health, Stamina and Magicka in Daylight Hours while Outdoors but a 10% increase in Health, Stamina and Magicka at Night and while indoors they will have regular stats
Vampire Stages

Problem - Most people who are vampires tend to stay in stage 4 as it seems a low healing rate is not penalty enough to get them to feed so my Idea

Solution - while Fully Fed a Vampire's abilites will be 5% more powerful
and at Stage 4 their abilities will be 5% weaker.
Now that is my Idea that will balance Vampirism out I do have a few more Ideas which cater to lore fanatics however

100% immunity to Poison Damage
100% immunity to Disease Damage

and to Balance it out

Food or Drink should have no effect on Vampire's WHATSOEVER (Be honest they are Undead and should not even be able to Digest food at all) I believe this will very much balance it out and make Vampire's more defined as Food seems to be very important to a lot of people but such should be the price one must pay for Power.

Post Comment: It is also come to my attention that I as a Vampire am vulnerable to not 1 but 2 fear abilities and they are Fear and turn Undead, the question on my mind is why are vampire's effected by both while mortal characters are only effected by 1? shouldn't vampire's only be effected by Turn Undead and not Fear? it would logically make more sense then what is currently present.

I like the sunlight idea if it can be tone down in the skill line. But honestly the point you made about vampires being OP was clear from the start when they are DK.

Sadly that classes tanking abilities and health recover need to be brought back as they are too powerful for PvP.

As for the rest you have fighters guild abilities to help and fire for the rest.

Immunity to disease and poison is OP outright and won't happen and making food and drink will literally cripple the provisioning crafting skill so no.

Also vampires in ES series can eat regular food. There was nothing stopping that except for fan mods.

Solanum · January 2015

Currently Vampires are already weak as it is. I would really like a revamp though.
The idea of not getting any benefit from food sounds great if we get a similar perk from feeding as I currently get from my 3stat food.

Balancing around day and night cycles seems pretty difficult to do.

What I would really like is our abilities to scale off and consume health. Or perhaps give us a special bloodpool which gives penalties and bonuses depending how it is used.

rawne1980b16_ESO · January 2015

Audigy wrote: »

They pick them due Twilight "lore" and there every Vampire can have a picnic in the park...

To be fair, quite a few people turned vamp due to how strong they were in PvP.

I haven't played since May of last year so I don't know how much they have changed but 1 vamp could tank whole raids in Cyrodiil and people couldn't get away due to that mist form.

Enjoy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxBlMayv12M

Merlin13KAGL · January 2015

*NOTE: The two quoted parts are for the two quoted people...the rest is for whoever it applies to.

Solanum wrote: »

Currently Vampires are already weak as it is. I would really like a revamp though.

@Solanum , is that a vamp joke?

Contrary to what many people think, some got Vamp to get vamp, not for FOTM, not for OP, sure as hell not for 'Twilight.'

I'm amazed at how little people still know about the game, the skill line (OP, that's you twice, btw - food for unskilled? Seriously?), and the compensating lore. (Ok, maybe three times.)

@rawne1980b16_ESO‌ , they've nerfed a lot of thing, esp. in the vamp line. The speed bonus no longer stacks, it's a one or the other thing (and there is no mystform sprint anymore), plus swarm has been nerfed, as well.

There's about 2 things in the line that still give it merit, 4 at the most, including the passive options.

Counter that with the increase in effectiveness of Silver Shards and Evil Hunter lighting you up like a Clearance sale in Cyro, and it's not what it once was.

Add the overemphasis on fire as the element of choice everywhere, and the benefit is even less (even with knowing how to counter part of it.)

Still some choose it, not because the 'cool kids' do so, but because they do so.

Please stop making ignorant assumptions and lumping everyone into the same category.

MornaBaine · January 2015

Solanum wrote: »

Currently Vampires are already weak as it is. I would really like a revamp though.
The idea of not getting any benefit from food sounds great if we get a similar perk from feeding as I currently get from my 3stat food.

Balancing around day and night cycles seems pretty difficult to do.

What I would really like is our abilities to scale off and consume health. Or perhaps give us a special bloodpool which gives penalties and bonuses depending how it is used.

It would be BRILLIANT if they'd give you food buffs for feeding and take away the vampire's ability to use actual food. Of course they'd have to figure out a way to replicate the blue and purple food buffs. So I'd say that in conjunction with the feeding you'd ALSO need to buy or make potions and the POTION would determine what stats were affected and whether the buff is of the green, blue or purple variety. Again, this gives vampires incentive to feed, which they NEED, and makes doing so a bit trickier as well, adding complexity and difficulty to playing them, which they also need.

So, pop the potion and then feed. Duration should be affected by what Stage you are in at the time as well. If you're only going from Stage 4 down to Stage 3, you get half an hour duration regardless of the potion (green, blue or purple) taken. Going down to Stage 2 gives you an hour and Stage 1 an hour and a half. If you are ALREADY Stage 1 when you pop the potion and then feed you get a full 2 hour effect.

Solanum · January 2015

One of those rare occasions where I could've honestly used the phrase, "no pun intended."

VileIntent · January 2015

Players have a 1.5 min cd by any vamp to feed on them, this is way to long and makes the skill unusable on pve bosses.
night is only 2 hours long vs day at 6 hours, again unbalanced.
I stopped reading after this because your argument was unfair to vampires whoare basically only using bat swarm.
The class does need work, but not in a negative way. We will see what changes they made as soon as pts comes up.