Vampirism needs to be redone

TX12001rwb17_ESO

As a Powerful and Most likely infamous Vampire in Tamriel I have an Idea that may improve Vampirism greatly and perhaps cut down the number's a Bit and at the same time make vampire's more feared....many of you know Vampirism in ESO is considered by some to be OP (Over Powered) and by other's to be UP (Under Powered) now I have thought this through long and hard and have come up with ideas to how to cater to both people...

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Feeding in PvP

Problem - Feeding is considered by those in PvP to be "Annoying" as vampire's have figured out how to utilize it best to their advantage including myself of course, this mainly concerns DKs of all classes at their tanking abilities are why Vampire's are more lily to go after them then any other class and people seem to hate this.

Solution - A Cooldown on someone who has been fed on so no vampire is able to feed on them again for at least 30 Minutes to an Hour or have it possible to be broken out of but in turn have it deal the same damage as Drain Essence and whatever effects on morphs are present. (As lets be honest after losing that much blood you should be very hurt)

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Sunlight

Problem - Sunlight regardless of whatever it says is still inconsistent, some say the vampires in ESO are immune to sunlight because they are "special" well that is no excuse as you are still a lesser vampire when compared to what you can become in Skyrim and even still you have a weakness to Sunlight as should ALL vampire's, no excuse's

Solution - Add a 10% reduction of Health, Stamina and Magicka in Daylight Hours while Outdoors but a 10% increase in Health, Stamina and Magicka at Night and while indoors they will have regular stats

---

Vampire Stages

Problem - Most people who are vampires tend to stay in stage 4 as it seems a low healing rate is not penalty enough to get them to feed so my Idea

Solution - while Fully Fed a Vampire's abilites will be 5% more powerful
and at Stage 4 their abilities will be 5% weaker.

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Now that is my Idea that will balance Vampirism out I do have a few more Ideas which cater to lore fanatics however

100% immunity to Poison Damage
100% immunity to Disease Damage

and to Balance it out

Food or Drink should have no effect on Vampire's WHATSOEVER (Be honest they are Undead and should not even be able to Digest food at all) I believe this will very much balance it out and make Vampire's more defined as Food seems to be very important to a lot of people but such should be the price one must pay for Power.

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Post Comment: It is also come to my attention that I as a Vampire am vulnerable to not 1 but 2 fear abilities and they are Fear and turn Undead, the question on my mind is why are vampire's effected by both while mortal characters are only effected by 1? shouldn't vampire's only be effected by Turn Undead and not Fear? it would logically make more sense then what is currently present.

dharbert

Yet another player who doesn't realize that this game isn't only PvP, and any change made to any skill line affects both PvP AND PvE. Vamps are fine, and have been nerfed twice already.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

dharbert wrote: »

Yet another player who doesn't realize that this game isn't only PvP, and any change made to any skill line affects both PvP AND PvE. Vamps are fine, and have been nerfed twice already.

so a 10% increase in stats at night wont benefit PvE or 5% stronger skills when fully fed? it was not until 2 days ago did I consume the first food item and I am Vr14 Sorceror and was doing fine before that if you rely on food to get you through the game then you obviously need practice.

dharbert

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Yet another player who doesn't realize that this game isn't only PvP, and any change made to any skill line affects both PvP AND PvE. Vamps are fine, and have been nerfed twice already.

so a 10% increase in stats wont benefit PvE?

Actually, I don't care what changes you want made to Vamps, as long as it's kept only to Cyrodiil, as such changes should be. Drain already has a cool down in PvE.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

dharbert wrote: »

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

dharbert wrote: »

Yet another player who doesn't realize that this game isn't only PvP, and any change made to any skill line affects both PvP AND PvE. Vamps are fine, and have been nerfed twice already.

so a 10% increase in stats wont benefit PvE?

Actually, I don't care what changes you want made to Vamps, as long as it's kept only to Cyrodiil, as such changes should be. Drain already has a cool down in PvE.

then you do not have to be rude about it, it's little wonder why many people dislike MMOs when they have to deal with people who are rude. maybe they should make those changes and remove all signs that your character is a vampire in PvP by removing all their powers and weakness and their ability to feed how does that sound, also this is not a Nerf, Why the hell would I want to Nerf vampires when I myself am one?

Circuitous

I'd like to see suggestions that actually fit the lore of TES vampires, especially the breed found in ESO.

TES vampires can eat. Not all TES vampire clans are subject to damage by sunlight. TES vampires go stronger the longer they abstain from drinking blood.

I like the idea of feeding being breakable or having a cooldown, maybe both. Allowing an ally to shield bash the vampire would be nice, too.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Circuitous wrote: »

I'd like to see suggestions that actually fit the lore of TES vampires, especially the breed found in ESO.

TES vampires can eat. Not all TES vampire clans are subject to damage by sunlight. TES vampires go stronger the longer they abstain from drinking blood.

I like the idea of feeding being breakable or having a cooldown, maybe both. Allowing an ally to shield bash the vampire would be nice, too.

technically in ESO feeding make you more powerful having a higher healing rate is better then a slightly cheaper ultimate., That was sort of retconned in Dawnguard when you needed to feed to gain Vampire lord perks. if anything you are a Dhampir/Half Vampire is ESO and not a REAL Vampire, why else does poison damage and disease damage harm you and why do you lack fangs?

Audigy

I like the idea of sunlight and moonlight that you suggested, sadly ES players are not interested in lore - at least many of those who play a vampire. They pick them due Twilight "lore" and there every Vampire can have a picnic in the park...

Trying to explain to them that Vampires should not easily walk around during day is very hard to say the least.

Good luck trying to talk sense into people.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Audigy wrote: »

I like the idea of sunlight and moonlight that you suggested, sadly ES players are not interested in lore - at least many of those who play a vampire. They pick them due Twilight "lore" and there every Vampire can have a picnic in the park...

Trying to explain to them that Vampires should not easily walk around during day is very hard to say the least.

Good luck trying to talk sense into people.

yep people seem to think the vampire's in ESO are deprived from fairies it seems. next time I play I will bring that up and see what people think.

timidobserver

It does make sense that disease damage wouldn't impact vampires.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

timidobserver wrote: »

It does make sense that disease damage wouldn't impact vampires.

well they cant contract lycanthopy from werewolves so yeah infact werewolves should also be 100% immune to disease.

MornaBaine

Vampires were just really poorly implemented overall and pretty much everything about the way they were designed just screams "because MMO." I am okay with there being different pros and cons to each of the Stages but those tradeoffs need to be more balanced and yes there absolutely needs to be an incentive to feed and return to the earlier stages. It seems, at first glance, that the fact that being in Stage 4 will be considered a "crime" and will cause city guards to attack vampires, will do just that. But what I have long predicted is already beginning to come to pass...PvPers complaining that they should not be "forced" to leave Stage 4 because they "need" the benefits of Stage 4 and its not "fair" that they should have to temporarily give them up in order to do anything other than PvP. What they have needed to do all along is address WHY, from a mechanics standpoint, Stage 4 is so much more attractive to players than Stage 1, 2 or 3.

Also (shameless plug) please see this post:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/137957/some-suggestions-for-improving-vampires/p1
While the thrust of the OP is to just make vampires more interesting and lore-appropriate, you will find a wide array of vampire issues being discussed and will get a good feel for how other players view vampires and what they feel should be done to improve them.

Ajantear

I'm just tired of very second player I see being a vampire. Is this Elder Scrolls online or Vampire the Mascerade online?

Ajantear

...I don't begrudge people playing them, they just need to be way less obvious, especially in towns where the guards would hack them to bits before they got anywhere near.

MornaBaine

Ajantear wrote: »

...I don't begrudge people playing them, they just need to be way less obvious, especially in towns where the guards would hack them to bits before they got anywhere near.

Yep. This is, in part, why I have advocated for an ability or disguise that allows your vampire to look as they did in character creation, BEFORE they became a vampire. I would want this to BREAK at Stage 4 however so as to maintain the consequences of being in Stage 4. Personally, I'd LOVE not knowing who the vampires are for the most part as this would accord with the very lore established in this game by Lamae herself when she tells you that your kin reside undetected at all levels of society at the end of the vampire quest.

Nacario

I remember back at launch I could've been an Emperor till I took an arrow to..

No thats not what I was going to say. Back at launch vampires were mysterious, I remember how everyone was looking around at ways of how to become a vampire or werewolf, or how there were so limited players to bite.

Now they're just common fodder, but hey, its an mmo so what'ya know.


The only reason I and many others are vampire is due to the sneak speed increase, it's just such a great quality of life addition. Next comes bat swam and mist form. Greatest troll manouver is shadow cloak into a sneak feed on a tanky player, while you get to watch the rest beat on him till he goes down, and he can do no nuthin bout it!.

Other than that the 50% fire dmg taken is a big hit, so it makes up for it.

Zorrashi

MornaBaine wrote: »

Ajantear wrote: »

...I don't begrudge people playing them, they just need to be way less obvious, especially in towns where the guards would hack them to bits before they got anywhere near.

[...]
Personally, I'd LOVE not knowing who the vampires are for the most part as this would accord with the very lore established in this game by Lamae herself when she tells you that your kin reside undetected at all levels of society at the end of the vampire quest.

Well, curiously enough, the only NPCs that can detect that you are a vampire are only a select few NPCs, with even other vampires not realizing you are a vampire even though you can be basically starving and obviously afflicted. So yeah, as far as the game part of the world knows, your vampire is basically undetectable (even to many other vampires ).

But as far as other players on the other hand.....yeah. So long as the vampires are still noticeably ugly-ish and the disguise can be broken, then I'll support costumes/potions/abilities.

OrangeTheCat

Combined with other things ala the "play as you want" bs, it is OP. They should just get rid of it or make it nothing more than RP candy. Or give non vampires/werewolves a compelling reason to remain human/elven.

timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

As a Powerful and Most likely infamous Vampire in Tamriel I have an Idea that may improve Vampirism greatly and perhaps cut down the number's a Bit and at the same time make vampire's more feared....many of you know Vampirism in ESO is considered by some to be OP (Over Powered) and by other's to be UP (Under Powered) now I have thought this through long and hard and have come up with ideas to how to cater to both people...

---

Feeding in PvP

Problem - Feeding is considered by those in PvP to be "Annoying" as vampire's have figured out how to utilize it best to their advantage including myself of course, this mainly concerns DKs of all classes at their tanking abilities are why Vampire's are more lily to go after them then any other class and people seem to hate this.

Solution - A Cooldown on someone who has been fed on so no vampire is able to feed on them again for at least 30 Minutes to an Hour or have it possible to be broken out of but in turn have it deal the same damage as Drain Essence and whatever effects on morphs are present. (As lets be honest after losing that much blood you should be very hurt)

---

Sunlight

Problem - Sunlight regardless of whatever it says is still inconsistent, some say the vampires in ESO are immune to sunlight because they are "special" well that is no excuse as you are still a lesser vampire when compared to what you can become in Skyrim and even still you have a weakness to Sunlight as should ALL vampire's, no excuse's

Solution - Add a 10% reduction of Health, Stamina and Magicka in Daylight Hours while Outdoors but a 10% increase in Health, Stamina and Magicka at Night and while indoors they will have regular stats

---

Vampire Stages

Problem - Most people who are vampires tend to stay in stage 4 as it seems a low healing rate is not penalty enough to get them to feed so my Idea

Solution - while Fully Fed a Vampire's abilites will be 5% more powerful
and at Stage 4 their abilities will be 5% weaker.

---

Now that is my Idea that will balance Vampirism out I do have a few more Ideas which cater to lore fanatics however

100% immunity to Poison Damage
100% immunity to Disease Damage

and to Balance it out

Food or Drink should have no effect on Vampire's WHATSOEVER (Be honest they are Undead and should not even be able to Digest food at all) I believe this will very much balance it out and make Vampire's more defined as Food seems to be very important to a lot of people but such should be the price one must pay for Power.

---

Post Comment: It is also come to my attention that I as a Vampire am vulnerable to not 1 but 2 fear abilities and they are Fear and turn Undead, the question on my mind is why are vampire's effected by both while mortal characters are only effected by 1? shouldn't vampire's only be effected by Turn Undead and not Fear? it would logically make more sense then what is currently present.

Yup redone (Y)
The "class/skill" line are boring.

Darkrogue671

If you see sunlight, you should burn into blazing flame followed by a pile of ash. Oh, plus whatever loot you're carrying!

WraithAzraiel

TX12001rwb17_ESO wrote: »

Sunlight

Problem - Sunlight regardless of whatever it says is still inconsistent, some say the vampires in ESO are immune to sunlight because they are "special" well that is no excuse as you are still a lesser vampire when compared to what you can become in Skyrim and even still you have a weakness to Sunlight as should ALL vampire's, no excuse's

Solution - Add a 10% reduction of Health, Stamina and Magicka in Daylight Hours while Outdoors but a 10% increase in Health, Stamina and Magicka at Night and while indoors they will have regular stats

---

The sunlight suggestion is unnecessary and unreasonable, considering the "daylight" hours of the game are significantly longer than the night hours.

You'll be at a disadvantage far longer than you'll ever have an advantage.

Even then, in the short time it's ever night in Cyrodiil, the masses would be crying nerf even more because all the "OP lolvampurs" will be even more powerful.

Not ever likely to happen, maybe if this was a single player game, but the mass outcry would be deafening if they were to even suggest THAT big of a debuff during digital daylight hours.

Them's the MMO breaks. Communism...err "balance" in all things.

naatokb14_ESO

I would agree completely with the OP's suggestions, IFF stage 4 vampirism in public is added as a crime to city justice system, and IFF ZoS would fracking even out day and night! Every other ES game out there has a balanced day/night length. Why the FRACK is night 2 hours shorter than day in ESO (Half as long)?!

As far as making players immune to feeding on a timer...naah. They should be immune to future feeding until they die after being fed upon once. But if they respawn or are ressurrected, they should once again be subject to feeding.

Am I understanding correctly that vampires are 'stun-locking' other players by using feeding? One vampire feeds on a player, then another, then another or until the victim is killed? If so that is ***-poor coding and needs to be addressed.

Although multiple vampires CAN feed on the same NPC in this game, they have to do so at the same time. And once a NPC has been fed upon, they cannot be fed upon again until death/respawn. It should be the same for player characters.

The same should apply to vampiric energy drain.

xaraan

eh, some changes probably wouldn't hurt for vampires, but unless it came along with nerfing batswarm (I know, prepare for lol's) they shouldn't have any buffs to the line. Batswarm is the reason everyone I know becomes a vampire, it's one of the best ulti's in the game especially considering it's cost. Should there be more benefits to being a vamp? Sure, but things need to be evened up if so.

Would vampires like having batswarm nerfed if it meant more useful skills elsewhere?

And, for any reasons lore wise one might make for disease and poison resist - that 100% immunity is ridiculous in this game for pvp. Sounds like a dream for a caster/pvp'r to be resistant to meat bags, poison arrows, etc.

Darkrogue671

xaraan wrote: »

And, for any reasons lore wise one might make for disease and poison resist - that 100% immunity is ridiculous in this game for pvp. Sounds like a dream for a caster/pvp'r to be resistant to meat bags, poison arrows, etc.

Not if vamps have a 100% weakness to fire like they should. They'll see fire twice as much as they would poison or disease.

WraithAzraiel

xaraan wrote: »

eh, some changes probably wouldn't hurt for vampires, but unless it came along with nerfing batswarm (I know, prepare for lol's) they shouldn't have any buffs to the line. Batswarm is the reason everyone I know becomes a vampire, it's one of the best ulti's in the game especially considering it's cost. Should there be more benefits to being a vamp? Sure, but things need to be evened up if so.

Would vampires like having batswarm nerfed if it meant more useful skills elsewhere?

And, for any reasons lore wise one might make for disease and poison resist - that 100% immunity is ridiculous in this game for pvp. Sounds like a dream for a caster/pvp'r to be resistant to meat bags, poison arrows, etc.

They've already stated at the Guild Summit they're going to be bringing Ultimates more in line with one another in terms of cost. To allow for more flexibility with different builds, to avoid cookiecutters.

I'm hoping Batswarm is on that list. It could do without the last 2 nerfs and just had a cost increase to put it on par with other ultimates and I'm sure there would've been less of an outcry about how OP it is.

xaraan

Agree with the cost increase on swarm, that is what makes it the most OP (that and being the only mobile ulti - not counting something like magma armor). We'll see what comes of the changes.

As for the 100% weakness to fire being equal to resistance on disease/poison - sure, only if they cannot change that 100% with enchants/protections.

naatokb14_ESO

One more comment on some of the things raised in the thread so far:

First, MornaBaine has already addressed, backed by ESO lore from the vampire questline and from the NPC, Count Ravenwatch, that ESO vampires can indeed hide what they are. So forget the idea that 'vampires should be ugly regardless of how well fed they are'.

Second, for those complaining about how many vampires are running around Cyrodiil and/or elsewhere, yeah. I play vampires and I am not happy about it, so I feel your pain. But here's the rub...I'm willing to BET that many of the same people grumbling about how many vampires there are, either have their own vampire characters who sold "The Dark Gift" to complete strangers, or have friends/guild mates who did. It is the prostitution of the "Dark Trick" of making another vampire that caused this problem, and I absolutely LOATHE the practice.

FYI, I'm one of those who waited to get infected by an NPC (working at it for THREE WEEKS due to the early frequent server reboots resetting the whole cycle of bloodfiend/werewolf spawns). There were plenty of people offering the bites. I refused to give in to the [snip] of vampirism in this game. Furthermore, I do not sell or give the Dark Gift out. Other players either get it from me in RP or guild members due to game mechanic issues (vampire players who want their characters' condition hidden and so use the cures to appear human while RPing in public. I will assist with vamping them again because this tactic helps RPers in RP and affects nothing else).

Third...the idea that vampires should suffer some detriment for being outside during the day....I'll support this when the length of day/night in this game is even (or if different, a realistic difference based on game time of year), and when the lengh of a single stage of hunger for vampires is a full 24 hour GAME day (6 hours real time).
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Well I did anticipate that removing the ability for Vampire's to use Food would definitely lower Vampire numbers and the immunities would be an excellent trade off as every tom *** and Joe I meet who is a vampire consumes food and I know for a fact you can play the game without getting that fix as so many player's do......to balance it out Vampire's would become immune to the Poison damage inflicted from moves such as Venom Arrow and Lethal Arrow and Disease Damage, I know there are many people who would hate that and if they do then it's clear they should not be vampire's in the first place as they can't handle it, i have been a Vampire for 6 months now since I was level 23 and I could handle it just fine and their are some who would enjoy the tradeoff for the immunities to poison and disease damage. the point is at the current stage that vampire's are at they are nothing more then a mere skill line they should be treated more like a race if anything and if vampire's are attacked at being at stage 4 something would have to be added to the vampire's to balance it out and for that I would suggest doubling the time in between stages so stage 1 lasts for an hour and so on and 10% loss of stats in daytime is not much if you have 1000 health that means outdoors in daylight you would have 900 health easily offset by wearing enchanted gear, you could probably have it so it only lowers health and at night you only gain 10% health, it would make some vampire's less inclined to go out in the daylight and make non Vampire's more weary at night as they no more vampire's will be around.

If people complain about vampire's being OP at night then hear is a solution.....use silver bolts, hell increase that up to 10% critical if it helps, Use fire they will still have a 50% weakness to it and 10% higher health is not much at all, 1 extra attack can get rid of that health very fast.

Faugaun

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

And, for any reasons lore wise one might make for disease and poison resist - that 100% immunity is ridiculous in this game for pvp. Sounds like a dream for a caster/pvp'r to be resistant to meat bags, poison arrows, etc.

Not if vamps have a 100% weakness to fire like they should. They'll see fire twice as much as they would poison or disease.

Define 100% weakness to fire, I read this as any fire damage causes instant death...

TX12001rwb17_ESO

Faugaun wrote: »

Darkrogue671 wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

And, for any reasons lore wise one might make for disease and poison resist - that 100% immunity is ridiculous in this game for pvp. Sounds like a dream for a caster/pvp'r to be resistant to meat bags, poison arrows, etc.

Not if vamps have a 100% weakness to fire like they should. They'll see fire twice as much as they would poison or disease.

Define 100% weakness to fire, I read this as any fire damage causes instant death...

I am pretty sure not being able to use food in exchange for immunities to poison and disease would be more then enough of a penalty, I would keep the fire damage the same.

Faugaun

2 hours daylight 1 hour sunset 2 hours night 1 hour dawn....rinse repeat

Day = -x%
Dusk/dawn = 0%
Night = +x%

As for lore and vampires and NPCs not recognizing them despite very different looks....perhaps vampirism is so common that the stage 1&2 looks seem to just be another phenotype that occurs in the Tamriel population....

Edit: changed %'s to variable x