No loot for the Healers.

omfgitsbatman · November 2014

So. I am a VR6 healer. I have been doing the undaunted pledges daily. Most of the time, a higher level joins to complete it. When these higher levels join, from what I understood of the patch notes, you have to do a certain amount of damage to the bosses/mobs/etc... in order to get loot or exp. When doing these dungeons with higher level characters, I don't get any loot or exp because I'm healing, not doing damage. Is there a fix to this? Is there something I could be doing besides not going with higher level players (I find it best to not be picky if I want the pledges done)?

Gyudan · November 2014

I have had the same issue with my VR5 tank when doing dungeons with VR14 DDs.

dzugarueb17_ESO · November 2014

Hmm, I clearly remember getting epic hammer from boss being a vr3 healer in a party with vr12 tank. As for exp - it's horrible - yes.

omfgitsbatman · November 2014

Has it been since the latest patch? Because I have done at least 5 dungeons with higher level players since the patch. I will occasionally receive a little bit of gold from trash mobs or something of the sort because I am a siphon healer and do some damage to mobs, but on the bosses, I guess I just don't do enough damage, because out of those 5 dungeons, I think I've been able to loot like 2 of the bosses while everyone else gets to loot all of them. I was only able to loot those two I'm guessing because of situations where dps kept dying extending the fight and allowing me to get to the minimum damage threshold.

I do not know that this is what is going on for certain, but if this game mechanic only takes into account damage done, then it is a broken mechanic that could possibly eliminate 2/4 people in such a group as this: VR7 Tank, VR6 Healer, 2X VR12 Dps. The tank and healer would have a hard time meeting the damage threshold in a group like that. They would therefore not receive loot or exp from the entire dungeon regardless of how well they actually performed their job. A group like this can still very easily struggle on the dungeons (TRUST ME!).

If this is what is going on, taking into consideration healing done would not be a hard fix to this mechanic. For tanking, I'm pretty inexperienced with that and don't have a great recommendation (Maybe damage mitigated or hate generated... Idk)

Black_Wolf88 · November 2014

quote from patch notes:
When grouped, players with a Veteran Rank more than five ranks lower than other group members must now contribute sufficient damage to enemies to receive XP or loot from them.
This requirement was already in place for groups from levels 1-49.

Basically this is causing your problems and its come to stay. the only way you can get loot is to do enough damage.

As a healer you should do some damage on the bosses at least with light attack to recharge magicka. so loot there shouldnt be a problem.
When it comes to trash you wount get anything as a healer in your scenario.

The only other option is to party with people who are within 5 levels of eachother or less.

ZOS_GaryA · November 2014

Hey there folks,

Thanks a ton for the reports, we're currently taking a look into this! We'll be sure to post more information as it becomes available.

Romo · November 2014

Does this apply to non-group members in the world at large....

Helped at a Dolmen, always got a chest as long as I helped, i.e. healed or hit the bad buggers.

Well, I got "credit" for being there, dolmen went white.

But, no chest.

Fruitmass · November 2014

The dolmen box might be an issue with you being too high a level for the dolmen itself. As a general rule if the creatures are too low to give you xp (I think the thresholds 5 levels or more) you'll get credit for clearing but not the box.

omfgitsbatman · December 2014

Yeah, that's what I read in those patch notes and to my fullest knowledge, that is what is happening. I understand the reason behind the mechanic being it's too easy to just carry low levels through dungeons... But If the low level's role is healer, there's not really a lot they can do. I have since hit v14, so it's not a real problem for me anymore, but this is still an issue for many people. I know that I would have a hard time doing enough damage to meet the threshold and keep people alive at the same time. A tank should also not be expected to meet the damage threshold. It's just not what they do. There needs to be a tweak to the mechanic allowing these roles to earn exp and get loot if they have performed their job at a satisfactory level.

Is this indeed what is happening? That the only threshold to get the loot or exp is a damage minimum? Or am I misunderstanding something? Is there more info posted about this somewhere besides this thread?

omfgitsbatman · December 2014

Also, Is this based on the Average level of the party or just if there is one person 5 levels above you, it is in effect?

For instance, would 3 VR8's need to all meet the threshold in a group with 1 VR14? Or, since the average level is VR9.5 would there be no damage minimum?

Voodoo · December 2014

but you're Batman!

omfgitsbatman · December 2014

I am the Hero Tamriel deserves, but not the one it needs right now.

ZOS_MollyH · December 2014

Hello folks!

For healers to receive experience and loot in dungeons, they will need to heal for 20% health. It is currently working as designed.

If you use the /feedback command while in game, your suggestions regarding balance will go straight to our development team for consideration.

Thank you again!

nikolaj.lemcheb16_ESO · December 2014

Uhm no it doesn't. If you are too low lvl and heal for 100% of your group you still get no loot what so ever.

Darlgon · December 2014

Umm... No.. Also, if you are healing on the achievement mobs, (like bosses in public dungeons) you get to redo them, as healing does not count in those fights. The healer has to damage the mob. If you straight heal, everyone else in the group that damaged the mob gets the achievement and the healer doesnt even show they were there. We actually tested this last night.

timidobserver · December 2014

Can you explain this a little bit more. 20% of what health? If the enemy has 10,000 health the healer has to put out 2000 worth of heals?

Is this separate from the damage loot or is it combined?

Dagoth_Rac · December 2014

How do tanks receive experience and loot in dungeons? It seems like if DPS get loot for dealing damage and healers get loot for healing damage, tanks should get loot for absorbing damage.

I mostly tank and, while I get loot, it is mostly garbage. On the few instances I DPS, it is like night and day. Undaunted hats, rings with set bonuses, tons of purple drops. Is there a damage threshold to get any loot, but then a separate higher damage threshold to get good loot? It usually feels like the game treats tanks as DPS, judges we did not carry our weight in the DPS department, then gives us lousy loot.

omfgitsbatman · December 2014

Thank you very much for the response @ZOS_MollyH !
I have some questions regarding this answer though:
1.Does this 20% mean that the healer must heal for 20% of the mob's Health points?
2. Does this count overhealing as well or just effective healing? So, if your group doesn't take a lot of damage because they follow the mechanics would overhealing work to reach this threshold or does it have to be actual health restored to your party?
3. Do Damage shields count towards this healing threshold? Example: Steadfast ward or Obsidian shield. Also, do things like increasing health regen or utility spells like blood altar count in any way towards this threshold?
4. What is the threshold for a tank to reach?
5. Do the minimum thresholds mix and match? If I do some damage, and some healing, but both are slightly below the individual threshold, would that put you at meeting a combined threshold?

I am asking all of these questions because I plan on leveling another character and I (and I'm sure many others) would like to know what will and will not get me experience ahead of time, so I can avoid the apparent mistakes I made on my first character.

Snit · December 2014

20% of what?

tengri · December 2014

"Design"? Yeah, whatever.
More like train wreck...

Natjur · December 2014

Test 1

Four players in an instance all V14
Mob HP = 30k
Players 1-3 dps the mob
Player 4 heals only and does 10k of heals over the fight

Player 4 gets no exp (healer)

Test 2

Four players in an instance all V14
Mob HP = 30k
Players 1-3 dps the mob
Player 4 heals only and does 10k of heals over the fight and does 131 damage to mob (one heavy attack)

Player 4 gets exp

Test 3

Four players in an instance all V14
Mob HP = 30k
Players 1-3 dps the mob
Player 4 heals only and does 2k of heals over the fight (tank now wearing armor and using damage shields) and 2k of dps

Player 4 gets no exp (healer)

Not much of a test, but looks you have to 20% heals (based on the heath of the mob) and at least one hit to get exp

glak · December 2014

@ZOS_MollyH see @Natjur‌ 's post above showing that heavy (or light?) attacks are also required to get XP.

I've noticed over my play time that this last requirement is also true to get good loot when soloing with only class skills.

ChuckyPayne · December 2014

Hey!

"It is currently working as designed." ?!?! Then that is not good!!!

Holiday here we have more time to play together. Lets discover Craglorn.
4 friend,

Lower Craglorn
2 vet14 sorcerer dps
1 vet12 sorcerer dps
1 vet4 templar healer <- me

Upper Craglorn
2 vet14 sorcerer dps
1 vet4 templar healer <- me

That was fun. I just healed, I tried to stay alive and keep the team alive. It was exciting and challenging.

But on the basis of what I experienced, I think I will never play healer.

I only get exp from quest and mostly from mobs/bosses when I can used "massive" damage (Puncturing Sweep, Nova).
If I only use heal skills, no exp no loot.

"It is currently working as designed." ?!?!

There are problems with this system! Scaling? Or with the basics? I dont know, but it is not good. I do not enjoy the rewarding as a healer.

Why I have to prove myself and to accomplish? We play together, we are in the same party, I am in combat, use skills, use light/heavy attacks that is not enough for exp and loot?!

But the problem not only with the healer, problem with the numbers! No need numbers now it is mean= who is the fastest and strongest (big biG BIG dps) will get all loot others maybe get or mostly not. I think no need numbers, only need watching r u active or not it is simple and with this no problems like now with scaling!

If u play more than 4 on the surface (Craglorn events, Dolmens etc) no exp and loot because vet 14 players with high dmg stole everything: exp, loot, and of course the fun.

Maotti · December 2014

Why even have that 5 veteran rank thing anyway?

Totally understandable from lvl 1-50 but not with veteran ranks. It's crap.

Mathetes · March 2015

Bump. Would be nice to get some replies from devs to this post, since this is extremely frustrating. I get no, or significantly less, xp than my groupmates, during difficult fights where I can't do damage also. Not good if "working as designed".

koetty · May 2015

Bump again. Especially want to know how Tanks get Xp an Loot?
Love to play a Tank but getting no Loot and Xp is frustrating :-/

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · May 2015

The loot system in this game has been and still is fubar. They dont know how to fix it or simply do not care. As you see everything is working as intended. Meaning you can help your friends yes but you get nothing out of it (and neither do they). Its why this game tanked when it launched and still is on the cusp of closing. There is no reward for playing the game. The whole point of doing raids etc is to get loot. Without loot what is the point?

Anyways you can see how out of touch the developers are when they claim everything is working as intended. You must heal 20% (of what they dont know or wont explain).

olemanwinter · May 2015

I think most of you would like to be made aware of the changes to VR loot that Zos has announced in my thread

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/170059/zos-seems-to-be-begging-me-to-unsubscribe-ridiculous-customer-service/p2

They are going to remove what they call the "veteran rank band" which should solve most of the problems here.

As I understand it, these "thresholds" for contribution only exist when playing with people outside of you "veteran rank band".

With the changes as described I belive that healing only 19% would still get you loot after the change but similar thresholds will still remain for non-vet groups.

I think I've got all that info correctly. It's not live yet, so I can't test it. But the official zos reply (BEST AND MOST SPECIFIC ZOS REPLY EVER) is found in the link above.

xaraan · May 2015

It seems you have to be within four levels no matter how much damage or healing you do in a group.

Nhoxxx · May 2015

Yeah, been doing run with some friends vr14 while I'm still vr8. I heal way more 20% and stuff, but still 0 xp/loot on most of boss. Need to take time and risk the group lives to DPS to get something.
Hope this get a fix soon.

duckboy88 · July 2015

group dungeons are a joke for healers to even play. absolutely zero xp / loot yet we are keeping everyone alive. seems like its pointless to even play as one now.