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I'm having a bad day...
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G0ku✭✭✭✭There are some more unbreakable CC´s in game when people start to combine different CC with each other. Regular class skills are far more often used to stunlock players.
This is the first thread I see about the feeding. If it was commonly used I am sure people would already be crying over it constantly as seen in the various DK threads.
But sure, if a somehow known player starts to complain a mislead fanboi brigade will kick in to support him. Somehow disgusting...
I completely agree that things like that should be fixed, but this one here should not get top priority before others which are fare more common in the game just because someone who is kind of a vip is complaining about it.
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RoamingRiverElk✭✭✭✭✭One would really think that they would have fixed the vampire feeding already... It simply isn't a good mechanic. Just because it hasn't been written about on the forums much doesn't mean it isn't, and hasn't been, a problem. I'm glad someone brought it up now. My guildmates certainly know what I've thought of vampire feeding, for quite some time.
Biting jabs spam is also mindboggling.Dalris Aalr - Magicka (Stamina) DK | Dalfish - Magicka Sorc | Dal Aalr - Magicka Warden | Dalrish - Mag/Stam NB | Irana Aalr - PvE Templar0 -
JaJaLuka✭✭✭✭People are already LOUDLY calling it out G0ku.
Rylana, your point about breaking up the zerg blobs has more to do with the inherent problem with purge and impulse, not vampire feeding/unbreakable CC. If there were more people who had the ability to use unbreakable CC the ganking and trolling in this game would be atrocious. Snipe is bad enough, but the troll gankers got hold of more perma CC you can pretty much forget riding a horse in Cyrodiil or even travelling to reinforce a keep, it's hard enough now without that.
There is a huge problem with the game's core mechanic where a whole lot of PvE content relies on impulse AOE so the developers are loath to change the way that that skill works and therefore the flow on effect screws PvP. Saying that is has nothing to do with the issue of this thread.
No matter how strong the person is, no matter how outnumbered or vise versa, there should be absolutely no automatic "I win" button. People want to complain about OP builds, feeding is by far the worst thing to happen to small engagements so far, not even the invincible glitch from mist form is this bad because at least the other people can run.Krojick, DC Sorc PC NA
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Brunack, EP DK PC NA
General Mark Shephard, EP Temp PC NA (Worst temp NA XD )
Krojick Nightblade, DC NB PC NA
Others...4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
So basically you are saying anyone who is alone and encounters two enemies one of which is a vamp should automatically lose, not because he is a bad player, but because there is an ability X in the game he has no way to prevent.
Sorry but that's just bad game design. The victor should be determined by skill of the combatants, not by their numbers.
No, what I am saying is, there should be limits on what a single toon is capable of.
That limit, however, should be determined by the skill of that single toon compared to the skill of his enemies.
That limit should not be "you encountered two, and one of them is a vamp = you die regardless of player skills involved"
Because, besides the fact that this is complete cheese, it would force everyone to be a vamp, or suffer from this. I think there are enough vamps in pvp as it is.
Edited by Sharee on December 11, 2014 12:37PM4 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
So basically you are saying anyone who is alone and encounters two enemies one of which is a vamp should automatically lose, not because he is a bad player, but because there is an ability X in the game he has no way to prevent.
Sorry but that's just bad game design. The victor should be determined by skill of the combatants, not by their numbers.
No, what I am saying is, there should be limits on what a single toon is capable of.
That limit, however, should be determined by the skill of that single toon compared to the skill of his enemies.
That limit should not be "you encountered two, and one of them is a vamp = you die regardless of player skills involved"
Because, besides the fact that this is complete cheese, it would force everyone to be a vamp, or suffer from this. I think there are enough vamps in pvp as it is.
Youre missing the point.
Coming on to the forums and trying to get X nerfed to try to increase the power of Y build is exactly why I am against it.
God forbid someone figured out a way to shut down a DK supertank. We cant be having that right, what would youtube say?Edited by Rylana on December 11, 2014 4:43PM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
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Sypher✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I'm done arguing, can @ZOS_GinaBruno or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom come and give us a word about this?
The vampire feeding mechanic currently can't be CC broken, doesn't give CC immunity, isn't affected by any form of CC mitigation/immunity, and can be chained from multiple vampires.
Is this working as intended?DC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher
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Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I enjoyed your video, I agree with you about vamp feeding, and I hate you for using that song. Now I hear it in my head just by seeing the thread title. Damn you.Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
So basically you are saying anyone who is alone and encounters two enemies one of which is a vamp should automatically lose, not because he is a bad player, but because there is an ability X in the game he has no way to prevent.
Sorry but that's just bad game design. The victor should be determined by skill of the combatants, not by their numbers.
No, what I am saying is, there should be limits on what a single toon is capable of.
That limit, however, should be determined by the skill of that single toon compared to the skill of his enemies.
That limit should not be "you encountered two, and one of them is a vamp = you die regardless of player skills involved"
Because, besides the fact that this is complete cheese, it would force everyone to be a vamp, or suffer from this. I think there are enough vamps in pvp as it is.
Youre missing the point.
Coming on to the forums and trying to get X nerfed to try to increase the power of Y build is exactly why I am against it.
God forbid someone figured out a way to shut down a DK supertank. We cant be having that right, what would youtube say?
No, it's you who is completely missing the point.
This issue affect everyone, not just DK supertanks. And you are turning it into your little vendetta against a class/spec that you cannot beat. Pathetic.7 -
Galathil923✭✭Sypher,
I for one admire your game play.I feel your pain,we all have bad days
Totally agree with your post on unbreakable cc,hopefully it will be fixed soon. Allasea Galathil VR14 Templar Healer
Voodoo Mistress VR8 Dragon Knight
Aldmeri Dominion
Thornblade
Haderus
Been playing since Beta0 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.Agrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
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Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!6 -
Subtomik✭✭✭✭✭
I should of stopped reading this thread around the time rylana went from devils advocate to venting about being a potato4 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
So basically you are saying anyone who is alone and encounters two enemies one of which is a vamp should automatically lose, not because he is a bad player, but because there is an ability X in the game he has no way to prevent.
Sorry but that's just bad game design. The victor should be determined by skill of the combatants, not by their numbers.
No, what I am saying is, there should be limits on what a single toon is capable of.
That limit, however, should be determined by the skill of that single toon compared to the skill of his enemies.
That limit should not be "you encountered two, and one of them is a vamp = you die regardless of player skills involved"
Because, besides the fact that this is complete cheese, it would force everyone to be a vamp, or suffer from this. I think there are enough vamps in pvp as it is.
You're missing the point.
Coming on to the forums and trying to get X nerfed to try to increase the power of Y build is exactly why I am against it.
God forbid someone figured out a way to shut down a DK supertank. We cant be having that right, what would youtube say?
No, it's you who is completely missing the point.
This issue affect everyone, not just DK supertanks. And you are turning it into your little vendetta against a class/spec that you cannot beat. Pathetic.
It affects zerg ballers? Keep zergs? The solid streams of people moving to the next point? In other words, the activites most of the pvp base engages in?
No, it does not affect everybody. Or even a majority of everybody.
I am not a fan of feed. However, instead of running off to the forums and posting how overpowered feed is, I researched the ability, analyzed what I was doing wrong and adjusted. If I am fed on, I did not properly kite so radiant updated, did not pulse the right damage aoe, had my group setup and not my small man setup, or my favorite... ran after that tasty bait like it was sexy time.
I agree that it is exponentially harder to avoid as the number of opponents increases. However, I am also fairly certain that ZoS thinks that is a good thing.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
So basically you are saying anyone who is alone and encounters two enemies one of which is a vamp should automatically lose, not because he is a bad player, but because there is an ability X in the game he has no way to prevent.
Sorry but that's just bad game design. The victor should be determined by skill of the combatants, not by their numbers.
No, what I am saying is, there should be limits on what a single toon is capable of.
That limit, however, should be determined by the skill of that single toon compared to the skill of his enemies.
That limit should not be "you encountered two, and one of them is a vamp = you die regardless of player skills involved"
Because, besides the fact that this is complete cheese, it would force everyone to be a vamp, or suffer from this. I think there are enough vamps in pvp as it is.
You're missing the point.
Coming on to the forums and trying to get X nerfed to try to increase the power of Y build is exactly why I am against it.
God forbid someone figured out a way to shut down a DK supertank. We cant be having that right, what would youtube say?
No, it's you who is completely missing the point.
This issue affect everyone, not just DK supertanks. And you are turning it into your little vendetta against a class/spec that you cannot beat. Pathetic.
It affects zerg ballers? Keep zergs? The solid streams of people moving to the next point? In other words, the activites most of the pvp base engages in?
No, it does not affect everybody. Or even a majority of everybody.
When i say it does not affect only DK tanks but everyone, i am clearly talking about classes (DK) and specs (tanks). And this affects all classes and all specs.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »...However, I am also fairly certain that ZoS thinks that is a good thing.
Good point, it is entirely possible that ZOS thinks this is a good thing.
@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_BrianWheeler
@ZOS_PaulSage
Would one of you be willing to speak up on this issue, and inform the PvP community whether you feel that the ability to lock other players in an unbreakable CC is a good thing?
On the one hand, we have players pointing out that this mechanic is broken and is being utilized by certain players to attain an unfair advantage over others. The use of this unbreakable CC locks a player out of being able to perform any actions at all, including the CC break that would normally counter this sort of effect within the actual mechanics of the game.
On the other hand, we have players pointing out that they are discouraged by the capabilities of skilled players that take on multiple enemies and prevail, and would like to ensure that an unbreakable CC remains in the game. The ideal of this view is that unbreakable CC should exist in order to punish the capabilities of players who would otherwise be able to break out of the effect and continue a fair fight with the rest of the approved gameplay mechanics.
So, which is it?
Is this a good and approved game mechanic that we should learn to welcome by rolling up vampires of our own, or is this a broken mechanic that you intend to soon fix by either making Feed a breakable CC or removing the ability to Feed on other players?
Regardless of whether or not ZOS plans to fix this, the PvP community deserves to know whether this is an intended and desirable mechanic in the eyes of the company.Edited by Samadhi on December 11, 2014 8:36PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maybe I don't understand the relevance then.
I am also having difficulty understanding what you mean by it affecting all specs. OP clearly acknowledged that magelight is a counter. He discarded the option because it required giving up a spot on two bars. Seems like a spec based counter to me.
Everyone has to make spec choices, saying something is overpowered because you have to make a choice would draw in a ton of abilities. Everyone's favorite nerf topic on these boards is reflect, which very clearly forces people to make choices, and usually with respect to many more than 2 slots.
I make it a point to refrain from taking a stance on any nerf request because meta is meta, and it changes, whether you want it to or not. Really, the only reason I am posting in this thread at all is my sheer disappointment with at least a few names in here asking for a nerf. Any nerf. It's something you expect from puggers, not good players.
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Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Magelight is NOT an effective counter.
I didn't say that magelight is an effective counter. I said OP acknowledged it is an effective counter. OP seems to be a credible source on the forums.
I don't use radiant alone to avoid feed and am not positive what contributes to avoidance the most. Due to the mechanics of positional openers in other games, I kite in a random spinning pattern when I engage with a stealther. Radiant is primarily to eviscerate the damage of the opener. It seems to work except when the server is lagging.0 -
MiyaTheUnbroken✭✭✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »...However, I am also fairly certain that ZoS thinks that is a good thing.
On the other hand, we have players pointing out that they are discouraged by the capabilities of skilled players that take on multiple enemies and prevail, and would like to ensure that an unbreakable CC remains in the game. The ideal of this view is that unbreakable CC should exist in order to punish the capabilities of players who would otherwise be able to break out of the effect and continue a fair fight with the rest of the approved gameplay mechanics.
I like feed the way it is because it's completely separate from slottable skills. Nothing about it works the way class/weapon/world skills do, and I find that to be interesting and dynamic. I'd like to see more of these abilities come into play in the future. It has nothing to do with punishing anyone, it's just about having an interesting game that is different from others, it's about having characters that are different from others.
I personally think feeding is fair, as there are numerous ways to prevent it. I think if the skill is easily preventable it doesn't necessarily need to be breakable. But if ZoS does decide that it is unfair, I'd ask that the solution not be the regular CC break. Come up with something different, something better. I am still pretty keen on the idea of the vamp dying if his victim dies while feeding, but there could be other solutions.4 -
Subtomik✭✭✭✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »
I didn't say that magelight is an effective counter. I said OP acknowledged it is an effective counter. OP seems to be a credible source on the forums.
I don't use radiant alone to avoid feed and am not positive what contributes to avoidance the most. Due to the mechanics of positional openers in other games, I kite in a random spinning pattern when I engage with a stealther. Radiant is primarily to eviscerate the damage of the opener. It seems to work except when the server is lagging.
I would say im a bit more experienced with magelight than sypher is. He can play all sorts of classes, and very well, but I have been running with ML in cyrodiil exclusively for 3+ months
and unbreakable stun has no place in the world of 'balanced" pvp. Regardless of how well you can kite, pop detect pots, etc, you will get engaged from behind and fed on when fighting multiple enemies utilizing this strat, leaving you utterly helpless regardless of class and or build.3 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MiyaTheUnbroken wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »...However, I am also fairly certain that ZoS thinks that is a good thing.
On the other hand, we have players pointing out that they are discouraged by the capabilities of skilled players that take on multiple enemies and prevail, and would like to ensure that an unbreakable CC remains in the game. The ideal of this view is that unbreakable CC should exist in order to punish the capabilities of players who would otherwise be able to break out of the effect and continue a fair fight with the rest of the approved gameplay mechanics.
I like feed the way it is because it's completely separate from slottable skills. Nothing about it works the way class/weapon/world skills do, and I find that to be interesting and dynamic. I'd like to see more of these abilities come into play in the future. It has nothing to do with punishing anyone, it's just about having an interesting game that is different from others, it's about having characters that are different from others.
I personally think feeding is fair, as there are numerous ways to prevent it. I think if the skill is easily preventable it doesn't necessarily need to be breakable. But if ZoS does decide that it is unfair, I'd ask that the solution not be the regular CC break. Come up with something different, something better. I am still pretty keen on the idea of the vamp dying if his victim dies while feeding, but there could be other solutions.
To me, Feed on my Nightblade acted exactly like any other free Synergy, except it applied to my own Shadow Cloak and gave Nightblade a much needed burst of healing.
Would not have any objection to the CC effect being breakable though.
Comprehend the Vampire Chronicles reference in the death while feeding kills the vampire idea, but this would likely open the way to griefing of vampire players in PvE.
Can easily see people running up and killing mobs while vampires are feeding just to kill the vampire.
Totally respect the idea though.
Feel that the best possible solution to the issue would be to make the Feed CC breakable by players, while maintaining all other aspects of the synergy as they currently are.
Think that the most likely solution, if ZOS decides to take any action at all, will be simply disabling the ability to feed on other players."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Mykah✭✭✭eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
I just find it ironic having a DK complain about game mechanics. Although I guess it's not since it's about mechanics that are not in their favor.eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »
You know what get's old fast? Reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, wait 4 seconds, reflective scale, rush in talons, standard, lava whip, talons, lava whip, talons, lava whip, standard,....Anyone want to place bets that the only people complaining about a change to the vamp feeding are vampires themselves?
I dare you guys to roll a non-vamp or cure yourself for a time in cyrodiil and go and try to fight against vamps who intentionally use this over and over again. I can assure you it gets old fast.
You know what gets older? People complaining about class balance on a thread that has nothing to do with that.
I've never had a problem killing a DK on my NB. That's irrelevant though, we are talking about something else.
Boy if you don't...
I get fed on while playing my Nightblade as well..
That's because you slowly walk around spamming spell block. Your playstyle on both classes, while very powerful, is also vulnerable to feed.
As a main I play a non-vamp NB, stamina medium, bow/2h, and I hardly ever get fed on, most days not at all. Its not because I'm a better player, its because my playstyle is fairly chaotic, in and out, and hard to read for enemies. My tactic generally is to break down enemy DKs and Temps on the frontline using Fear Deathstroke and Execute, or catching BE Sorcs in my backline, and it really works well in group combat. I cannot however take on 3 opponents at the same time solo, but, I can take on two vamps pretty well where as you would probably get fed on and die if they are decent players.
And honestly, its because you rely on 360 block cast spam for defense and I do not. You are a stationary target. My stamina build does not allow me to walk around holding block while still dpsing, the only things I really block are invasion and snipe, the rest of the time I'm a moving target.
Is unbreakable CC lame? Yeah, I don't think it should be in the game. Is 360 block spam combined with LA builds also lame? Yeah and I also don't think it should be in the game, and it is a far graver imbalance to build variety.
They can make feed breakable in pvp when block is changed to 180*, until then, you'll have to take a bullet in the knee for using that crutch when all other mechanics are generally in your playstyle's favor.
Note this is not an argument about class balance, but about game mechanics, since you wanted to talk about mechanics and all. Feed is just a glimpse of the reality of how broken 360 block is when its the only thing you have to complain about on your LA 1h/s Resto DK, the definition of cookie cutter faceroll.3 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
So basically you are saying anyone who is alone and encounters two enemies one of which is a vamp should automatically lose, not because he is a bad player, but because there is an ability X in the game he has no way to prevent.
Sorry but that's just bad game design. The victor should be determined by skill of the combatants, not by their numbers.
No, what I am saying is, there should be limits on what a single toon is capable of.
That limit, however, should be determined by the skill of that single toon compared to the skill of his enemies.
That limit should not be "you encountered two, and one of them is a vamp = you die regardless of player skills involved"
Because, besides the fact that this is complete cheese, it would force everyone to be a vamp, or suffer from this. I think there are enough vamps in pvp as it is.
Youre missing the point.
Coming on to the forums and trying to get X nerfed to try to increase the power of Y build is exactly why I am against it.
God forbid someone figured out a way to shut down a DK supertank. We cant be having that right, what would youtube say?
No, it's you who is completely missing the point.
This issue affect everyone, not just DK supertanks. And you are turning it into your little vendetta against a class/spec that you cannot beat. Pathetic.
Uh what? Tell me again how I have trouble killing DK tanks? Because I dont. What I have trouble with is grasping any semblance of "X killed me so it must be removed'.
Be careful assuming btw, I main DK and play it as an anchorpoint, I know the class quite well. Nor am I vamp. I do however, maintain situational awareness and dont stay in one place constantly, always in motion. Thus the problem with omnomnom vamps isnt my problem. Perhaps learn from me, and keep moving at all times. Might help.
Edited to remove names, because I am NOT getting baited into a report again.
Edited by Rylana on December 11, 2014 11:33PM@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.
Until such time as button mashing immovable and purge no longer effectively negate all CC i will diametrically oppose you on this.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin2 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.
Until such time as button mashing immovable and purge no longer effectively negate all CC i will diametrically oppose you on this.
Then live in a world where you're wrong.
Unbreakable CC -- taking choices away from the player -- is bad game design.
That there is other bad game design already in ESO (no way) does not mitigate this in any way, nor it is a viable counter.
You want to fix the other issues, then fix those issues. Don't include more unbreakable CC.
What you are really asking for are changes to Immovable. Purge also does not negate all CC.Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on December 11, 2014 11:45PMAgrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!3 -
Rylana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.
Until such time as button mashing immovable and purge no longer effectively negate all CC i will diametrically oppose you on this.
Then live in a world where you're wrong.
Unbreakable CC -- taking choices away from the player -- is bad game design.
That there is other bad game design already in ESO (no way) does not mitigate this in any way, nor it is a viable counter.
You want to fix the other issues, fix those issues. Don't include more unbreakable CC.
Rock Paper Scissors cannot function if everyone has a fourth toss that wins vs all three of the others. I want rock back in the game. Rock has been utterly discarded as having any significance.@rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
Aldmeri Dominion: Rylana Dionysis - DK - AR 25 == Kailiana - NB - AR 21 == Minerva Dionysis - Temp - AR 21 == Victoria Dionysis - Sorc - AR 13
Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin1 -
Agrippa_Invisus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.
Until such time as button mashing immovable and purge no longer effectively negate all CC i will diametrically oppose you on this.
Then live in a world where you're wrong.
Unbreakable CC -- taking choices away from the player -- is bad game design.
That there is other bad game design already in ESO (no way) does not mitigate this in any way, nor it is a viable counter.
You want to fix the other issues, fix those issues. Don't include more unbreakable CC.
Rock Paper Scissors cannot function if everyone has a fourth toss that wins vs all three of the others. I want rock back in the game. Rock has been utterly discarded as having any significance.
Then ask for changes to Immovable. That's the real point of contention you seem to have.
There are plenty of builds out there that don't even use Immovable (bow users often don't have it on their bar). These players are simply screwed by the option you proposed, which makes it bad game design.
Fix the core issue, always. Never take a secondary path that possibly damages other players' gaming experience.
EDIT: And if you did so, you might find allies instead of arguments. I'm on board with the 'Immovable should be 5 piece HA only' proposals that have been floated.Edited by Agrippa_Invisus on December 11, 2014 11:48PMAgrippa Invisus / Indominus / Inprimis / Inviolatus
DragonKnight / Templar / Warden / Sorcerer - Vagabond
Once a General, now a Citizen
Former Emperor of Bloodthorn and Vivec
For Sweetrolls! FOR FIMIAN!2 -
Jaerlach✭✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.
Until such time as button mashing immovable and purge no longer effectively negate all CC i will diametrically oppose you on this.
Then live in a world where you're wrong.
Unbreakable CC -- taking choices away from the player -- is bad game design.
That there is other bad game design already in ESO (no way) does not mitigate this in any way, nor it is a viable counter.
You want to fix the other issues, fix those issues. Don't include more unbreakable CC.
Rock Paper Scissors cannot function if everyone has a fourth toss that wins vs all three of the others. I want rock back in the game. Rock has been utterly discarded as having any significance.
I'm with agrippa. Your fundamental complaint is one I agree with, but attacking sypher, his build or his playstyle is a diversion. Good players optimize their advantages. Few do so better than sypher does. There may be balance issues with his success, but it doesn't make the mechanic he complains about any better. It's feel bad and frustrating.
Acting like this is somehow the one thing saving pvp is absurd. I hit v14 a few days ago. I pvp ed a lot leveling. Many of the best players in ep and DC are on the top of my codex and it isn't because I'm amazing. It's because there are answers to those builds and I focus on using one of them as often as I can when ever I see a tanky DK or nb.
You don't maintain bad game play to mitigate other bas game play.Jaerlach Kesepton (DK)
The 7th Vanguard
DC - NA first SO speed run & first Hardmode Speedrun
NA Record Vet DSA: 115190 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.
Until such time as button mashing immovable and purge no longer effectively negate all CC i will diametrically oppose you on this.
Then live in a world where you're wrong.
Unbreakable CC -- taking choices away from the player -- is bad game design.
That there is other bad game design already in ESO (no way) does not mitigate this in any way, nor it is a viable counter.
You want to fix the other issues, fix those issues. Don't include more unbreakable CC.
Rock Paper Scissors cannot function if everyone has a fourth toss that wins vs all three of the others. I want rock back in the game. Rock has been utterly discarded as having any significance.
I'm with agrippa. Your fundamental complaint is one I agree with, but attacking sypher, his build or his playstyle is a diversion. Good players optimize their advantages. Few do so better than sypher does. There may be balance issues with his success, but it doesn't make the mechanic he complains about any better. It's feel bad and frustrating.
Acting like this is somehow the one thing saving pvp is absurd. I hit v14 a few days ago. I pvp ed a lot leveling. Many of the best players in ep and DC are on the top of my codex and it isn't because I'm amazing. It's because there are answers to those builds and I focus on using one of them as often as I can when ever I see a tanky DK or nb.
You don't maintain bad game play to mitigate other bas game play.
You darn kids nowadays. Back in the day, we had to walk uphill in 11sec unbreakable stuns and 60+ sec mezzes.0 -
JaJaLuka✭✭✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »It's not complicated.
Can someone give me a solid rebuttal as to why you shouldn't be able to CC break from this.
Please, just give me a solid reason and I'll reason with you.
Ill try playing devils advocate.
The vamp using the feed ability cannot do anything else to you for the duration.
Effectively you are both paralyzed, yes?
So they are just as vulnerable as you are.
Instead of trying to justify why a 1vX player should not be shut down by this ability, try justifying why the vampire isnt dead with Xv1 mentality.
No, sorry Rylana, that's not how it works. You're putting me in a category (the 1vX category) which makes absolutely no sense.
Vampires don't just feed on 1vX players, the groups who do this will feed on just about anyone for kicks and giggles and a guaranteed free kill.
"So they are just as vulnerable as you are." When they feed, I'm pretty sure they get something around 8 ticks of decently sized heals. They also are granted immunity from all types of CC while feeding.
Why the hell am I even defending my point of view...
"have a buddy snipe (lethal arrow morph) the hell out of him." or any other healcut + damage spike, whatever flavor youd like to use.
A feeding vamp is a stationary target just asking to be focused down. They cant cast, therefore they cant purge a debuff, all they can do for those few seconds is take whatever damage is thrown at them.
My whole point is to kill the vampire. If he/she/it/that/whatever is such an issue, someone kill it, with fire and magnets.
The only situation where this becomes impossible is 1vX, which I know youre heavily into. Yeah, sucks not being able to do two things at once I suppose, but this is why we have these things called teammates?
Team mates?
Look, I get that if you have people around you probably won't get killed. I'm pretty sure we all knew that? Doesn't justify un breakable CC though.
Also some of you say this is useless in 1v1... What if I told you, you could go invisible batswarm and start feeding on your opponent and make them take every tick like a champ.
What this game actually NEEDS is more hard unbreakable CC, if I am perfectly honest. It is the whole reason why the zergball is still the meta, you cant break it up with CC, but have to rely on MOAR DAMAGE (basically copying what they do with more).
Area stuns/roots, unblockable chain pulls, unstoppable knockbacks/downs. I am not trolling either. This game needs ways to break up and smash up the stack-n-spam. The fact that two skills (immovable and purge) essentially negate every CC available, is one of the most fatal flaws in this games mechanics.
Absolute bullpuckey.
There should be ZERO unbreakable CC in this game. That includes the root/stun bug.
There is no reason that taking away control of a character should be something that is done with no repercussion from the player losing control of the character. As long as a player has managed their Stamina pool well, there should be a way out. That's a measure of player skill.
I've experienced MMOs with unbreakable CC in them (early DAoC for instance) and in every single instance it improved the gameplay experience of the playerbase to back away from 'unbreakable' CC and move towards a system where there was something the victim character could do to mitigate the situation.
You are completely incorrect about this. You can argue for more CC, sure. I might even agree with you. But unbreakable.
NO.
Until such time as button mashing immovable and purge no longer effectively negate all CC i will diametrically oppose you on this.
Then live in a world where you're wrong.
Unbreakable CC -- taking choices away from the player -- is bad game design.
That there is other bad game design already in ESO (no way) does not mitigate this in any way, nor it is a viable counter.
You want to fix the other issues, fix those issues. Don't include more unbreakable CC.
Rock Paper Scissors cannot function if everyone has a fourth toss that wins vs all three of the others. I want rock back in the game. Rock has been utterly discarded as having any significance.
I'm with agrippa. Your fundamental complaint is one I agree with, but attacking sypher, his build or his playstyle is a diversion. Good players optimize their advantages. Few do so better than sypher does. There may be balance issues with his success, but it doesn't make the mechanic he complains about any better. It's feel bad and frustrating.
Acting like this is somehow the one thing saving pvp is absurd. I hit v14 a few days ago. I pvp ed a lot leveling. Many of the best players in ep and DC are on the top of my codex and it isn't because I'm amazing. It's because there are answers to those builds and I focus on using one of them as often as I can when ever I see a tanky DK or nb.
You don't maintain bad game play to mitigate other bas game play.
You darn kids nowadays. Back in the day, we had to walk uphill in 11sec unbreakable stuns and 60+ sec mezzes.
lol, thank goodness we have moved on from then
Krojick, DC Sorc PC NA
Milámber, EP Sorc PC NA
Brunack, EP DK PC NA
General Mark Shephard, EP Temp PC NA (Worst temp NA XD )
Krojick Nightblade, DC NB PC NA
Others...1 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »and unbreakable stun has no place in the world of 'balanced" pvp. Regardless of how well you can kite, pop detect pots, etc, you will get engaged from behind and fed on when fighting multiple enemies utilizing this strat, leaving you utterly helpless regardless of class and or build.
Try this. Next time you fight a feeder, spin in place. Doesn't even require kiting...0
