BBSooner wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So now you are in the same level EP zone at the quest giver that begins the major sotryline for that area. you may be overleveled for those first few quests but I don't see that as a huge deal.

And if you make the change in Zone 3 or 4 or 5?

BBSooner wrote: »

If the betrayal quest became available after Cadwell gold no questlines would have to be altered at all. All quest progress would remain the same, you would just be in a different instance of the zone.

That is the only time this could occur if they ever implemented it, is after completion of Caldwells Gold. Then how would they handle the quests you missed doing Silver and Gold? What level would they assign them? Silver or Gold levels?

This is one of those things that sounds so simple but falls apart once you start to think it through.

It remains simple. The game tracks what quests you do. If you haven't done quests d through g, no matter your faction, it knows you haven't done them. The same for quests in progress. The experience you receive and mobs you fight are likely generated dynamically based on which instance of the zone you're in (normal/silver/gold), as opposed to your contention that ZOS has stored 3 separate versions of every single quest in game .

We can even see signs of this dynamic generation based on the new dungeon scaling.

Thanks for answering that so I don't have to.

MornaBaine wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

So now you are in the same level EP zone at the quest giver that begins the major sotryline for that area. you may be overleveled for those first few quests but I don't see that as a huge deal.

And if you make the change in Zone 3 or 4 or 5?

BBSooner wrote: »

If the betrayal quest became available after Cadwell gold no questlines would have to be altered at all. All quest progress would remain the same, you would just be in a different instance of the zone.

That is the only time this could occur if they ever implemented it, is after completion of Caldwells Gold. Then how would they handle the quests you missed doing Silver and Gold? What level would they assign them? Silver or Gold levels?

This is one of those things that sounds so simple but falls apart once you start to think it through.

It remains simple. The game tracks what quests you do. If you haven't done quests d through g, no matter your faction, it knows you haven't done them. The same for quests in progress. The experience you receive and mobs you fight are likely generated dynamically based on which instance of the zone you're in (normal/silver/gold), as opposed to your contention that ZOS has stored 3 separate versions of every single quest in game .

We can even see signs of this dynamic generation based on the new dungeon scaling.

Thanks for answering that so I don't have to.

I think what is not being thought about here is Geography - not just quests.
Im just thinking that if your changing your "starting zone" so to speak then the silver and gold zones will have to change too - gets a bit complex I think.

HydroCanuck wrote: »

Hey, remember when Guild Wars 2 had free server swaps? What happened when one realm was owning at PVP? Mass Exodus to that server. Rinse...Repeat...Wouldn't this have a similar effect on EOS if Faction changes were allowed?

Oh that actually IS a legit concern! Having Faction changes be a paid service might put a stop to it. Or having it be a one time only service. Or possibly giving it a VERY long cooldown, like a matter of months.

Oh ya Double Agent ...... cue music "Secret Agent Man...."

I don't see why you would change faction? You still get to see the other places when doing Cadwell's quests. Perhaps if you suddenly meet friends who all play in another faction, but how often does that happen? And how many would switch as soon as *** go bad in you faction in pvp?

BBSooner wrote: »

It remains simple. The game tracks what quests you do. If you haven't done quests d through g, no matter your faction, it knows you haven't done them. The same for quests in progress. The experience you receive and mobs you fight are likely generated dynamically based on which instance of the zone you're in (normal/silver/gold), as opposed to your contention that ZOS has stored 3 separate versions of every single quest in game .

That's not my contention or concern. My concern is about broken quests when approached after the a faction change. You have noticed that random quests get broken after patches, right? They change one thing, it can sometimes break something else.

Then there is the leveling issue If the quest was originally a Silver VR4 quest and you switched factions so now that quest is in the Gold VR9 Zone, what level would the quest be? The original level of the one you skipped or the new level of the new zone instance you are in? If you pick up a quest that you abandoned midway through, what zone level or instance would you pick that quest up again in?

As you say the levels are dynamic, but that is just one part of the quest progression. The instancing is another. Did you make the skeletons live or let them sleep the eternal sleep? Sure all these things are solvable, but not by waving a programmers hands over the keyboard and saying "Make it so" I would rather have ZOS spending time and resources on new content than coming up with some convoluted solution to what is essentially the unwillingness of someone wanting to switch characters.

Or, the simplest choice would be, rather than recode the game, is to use one of the character slots, and create a character in the faction you want them to be in, then you can play with your friends that faction. It's already built into the game, no need to recode it.

Or, ZOS could just make a Zone like Craglorn that is Alliance nuetral and let everybody play in it. That would also help with the low populations of these zones.

I understand why some people would want to do this, but let's look for solutions to the issue that don't require recoding the game, focusing resources on content that they have already released, and patching the things they break, and all the issues and what ifs that changing the alliance would introduce.

Nestor wrote: »

BBSooner wrote: »

It remains simple. The game tracks what quests you do. If you haven't done quests d through g, no matter your faction, it knows you haven't done them. The same for quests in progress. The experience you receive and mobs you fight are likely generated dynamically based on which instance of the zone you're in (normal/silver/gold), as opposed to your contention that ZOS has stored 3 separate versions of every single quest in game .

That's not my contention or concern. My concern is about broken quests when approached after the a faction change. You have noticed that random quests get broken after patches, right? They change one thing, it can sometimes break something else.

Then there is the leveling issue If the quest was originally a Silver VR4 quest and you switched factions so now that quest is in the Gold VR9 Zone, what level would the quest be? The original level of the one you skipped or the new level of the new zone instance you are in? If you pick up a quest that you abandoned midway through, what zone level or instance would you pick that quest up again in?

As you say the levels are dynamic, but that is just one part of the quest progression. The instancing is another. Did you make the skeletons live or let them sleep the eternal sleep? Sure all these things are solvable, but not by waving a programmers hands over the keyboard and saying "Make it so" I would rather have ZOS spending time and resources on new content than coming up with some convoluted solution to what is essentially the unwillingness of someone wanting to switch characters.

Or, the simplest choice would be, rather than recode the game, is to use one of the character slots, and create a character in the faction you want them to be in, then you can play with your friends that faction. It's already built into the game, no need to recode it.

Or, ZOS could just make a Zone like Craglorn that is Alliance nuetral and let everybody play in it. That would also help with the low populations of these zones.

I understand why some people would want to do this, but let's look for solutions to the issue that don't require recoding the game, focusing resources on content that they have already released, and patching the things they break, and all the issues and what ifs that changing the alliance would introduce.

I contend that it isn't as daunting as you proclaim, though. It doesn't matter what instance the quest you picked up is from (normal/silver/gold). You have a quest to kill 5 bandits in Glenumbra - your faction determines what instance of Glenumbra loads on entry - so you go kill 5 bandits in that instance. Your quest, by default of the zone you are required to enter, is now appropriate for that zone.

I highly doubt the code cares whether or not the bandits you kill are VR 1 instead of VR 6, you are simply required to accomplish and rewarded based on your instance. Apply that to any quests that have multiple steps as well. I really don't think these quests are as hardcoded as they would have to be to have the issues you say would arise - there is already proof through dungeon scaling that objectives and quests can be dynamically adjusted without issue.

If you choose to be of the opinion that you don't want ZOS spending time on it, that's fair - but proposing technical issues is counter productive. If players are too concerned with possible bugs then we shouldn't be expecting ZOS to add any content at all.

Agree that it would be easier to do if people have completed all the quests.

I think the game can actually handle changing levels during a quest with fewer issues than @Nestor fears.

My thing is, if you changed factions, say, when you finished the main quest, it would shift the levels of the zones around.

So, for example, if I am EP,the progression is EP -> DC -> AD.

If after completing the main quest I decide to switch to AD, then AD would become my "starter" and all the quests there would be low level and I would not get any xp for killing mobs, and just a little bit of XP for completing the quests.

And I'm not sure how the game would handle granting "Caldwell's Silver" if I've already done the EP quests as my main faction and then changed?

So having this at the end of Caldwell's Gold would probably make the most sense.

I don't think outside of PvP any character should be locked into any faction. The players should be able to travel anywhere they please and work for whomever they like. If anything, if you swear loyalty to a faction you should get a Faction specific PvE skill line.

Esha76 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the devs stated pre-launch that they were never going to allow faction changes. Even if true, rarely anything in MMOs is set in stone.

More than likely, most MMOs that have strict factions (most MMOs by that definition, come to think about it) don't allow you to change faction, it ruins the stories, and is only wanted by a small faction of the playerbase (more might use it for one or two characters, but not actually ask for it).

Yes, but with at least a 6 month cooldown.

Perhaps not change factions, but in PvE allow to form group dungeons of any factions, we would be on the same map as the dungeon and since guilds allow to have members of several factions that seems feasible
I even think that the basis of the change request is to be a level of concern
For pvp must keep strict barrier and for PvE because of the difficulty of forming correct group composed this could be a good thing

AlexDougherty wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

With a minimum 30 day cooldown sync with camapign time.....i dont mind.
BUT...you can only use one faction from you characters.
If you select EP...all your DC and AD characters are disabled for PVP.

This way trolling and treason is blocked.

I play characters from all three factions, so I don't like the sound of that.

I don't PVP, and I don't want to change factions, but I also don't like the sound of being barred from two of the factions. Even if you just mean for people who change factions (because someone will whine, and I'll lose at least three characters (I have five, with two in AD and EP))

I meant you can have any characters in any faction for PVE.
But PVP in Cyrodiil.....You can play only one faction at a time.....30 days worth of time.
When the campaign ends I see no reason you couldnt switch to another toon in a different faction for the restarted campaign.

If the OP is actually asking if every toon can change faction they were created with ...then a point blank no from me. Delete the toon if you arent happy with the faction.

I don't understand why you even asked the second question. That type of thinking is so flawed. Maybe I just don't understand. Why would anyone even care if someone else wanted to do a certain type of quest. It takes nothing away from them or affects them in any way.

I remember how much fun doing the betrayal quest in EQ2 was. Running from Freeport through dark and creepy Nektulos forest to reach Qeynos was a blast even though I died many times. It was a difficult but rewarding quest. After you betrayed, you were essentially an outlaw with no faction hunted by both sides. That alone made the quest fun. I'd love to see Zos come up with their own version of a betrayal quest. As long as it's not easy and could take many days to compete.