Maintenance for the week of January 5:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – January 7, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 10:00AM EST (15:00 UTC)
Too Many Guilds... Not Enough Kiosk
-
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem isn't the number of guild kiosks, it's the use of guild kiosks as the only effective means of public trading.
Not only does it prevent anyone from selling items unless they join a guild, and it has to be one that is regularly successful in obtaining access to kiosks to be of any real benefit, but it also makes a mountain out of a molehill so far as buyers tracking down items that they want is concerned. Whilst it may be partly my fault for not wanting to use addons, they should not be required for any core element of the game and as a result I am wasting enormous amounts of time with my alts checking out a mass of guild kiosks and even so have yet to find a single item that I am looking for. How I wish that I could do a single search for that item by name on a global auction house! I would actually prefer alliance-based auction houses tho', and would happily accept the need to check on 3 of them rather than the present mass of guild kiosks - I certainly don't need any more of them to check out!
Nowadays we are also seeing the additional disadvantages of this game's guild/trading system, in that the ability to join multiple guilds removes any semblance of guild community and loyalty (especially where trading guilds are concerned, in how many other MMOs do you get kicked from a guild if you don't log in often enough - unless perhaps it's a raiding guild run on military lines?), and every change in guild membership is paraded on the forums as confirmation that no-one is playing the game anymore.
The present guild/trading system creates enormous player dissatisfaction and offers unnecessary additional ammunition for the the game's critics. It has a hugely negative impact on the game, and it desperately needs changing.Edited by Tandor on December 3, 2014 7:55PM5 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem isn't the number of guild kiosks, it's the use of guild kiosks as the only effective means of public trading.
/zone WTS Dwemer Motif: Axes 10K or trade for one I don't have [Dwemer Style Master]
One of my friends finds a lot of blue motif books. He went to zone chat and sold half a dozen of them in 20 minutes when he needed inventory space. The others he sells in the guild store.The Moot Councillor0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
The truth is, there is no limitation to the guild membership, there are always options to join. So if you are passionate about trading, join one of the existing trade guilds, would be my tip.
Just like if you like running dungeons you join a dungeon crawling guild.
There are limitations to guild membership, first because the successful trading guilds will be full, and second because there's no point in joining an unsuccessful one.
Your comment would only be true if every guild had a permanent kiosk, and/or there was no cap on guild membership.
The present system may work well for those (largely sellers) who are able to subscribe successfully to it, but it is a complete failure to everyone else.Edited by Tandor on December 3, 2014 8:02PM2 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Are you in NA? Would you like to join a trading guild? I'm a member of two and I have a friend who are in others, so send me a message in game, if you'd like.
If that's addressed to me then thanks, but no, I'm not in NA. I do appreciate the kind offer tho'.
In any event, I have no wish to join a guild purely in order to sell items, only to have to change the guild if it fails to win a kiosk auction, or be booted from it if I choose not to log in for a few days. Nor do I want to continue chasing around umpteen kiosks looking for the items I want to buy.
I just want a decent and effective public trading system. It's not an unreasonable request.
Thanks again
! 0 -
HydroCanuck✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »
So do I.
I'm in 4 guilds that have stores (3 with traders, one without)
When I log in, I go to one of two characters that hold my sales gold, get all the gold from the sales through the guild stores they hold. Check what sold, replace the stuff from inventory for that character, move to the second one and do the same.
Then go to my other toons to get the rest of the hireling mail and then decide which toon gets to come out and play.
If I want to buy something in particular, I will go to certain traders I know have good stores. If you have the Awesome Guild Store addon you can just set up your search and easily repeat it across several stores. It usually takes me no longer than 15 minutes to go through all traders in 4 major centres. That's how I got my Sanctuary set when I was V6, and I've also done this to search for stuff friends were looking for.
It really doesn't seem like that much work to me.
Juggling 4 alts, all in different guilds. Yeah, that certainly makes more sense then having all your characters in 1 guild, and selling on one public or even faction auction house, like every other successful MMO ever created.3 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The problem isn't the number of guild kiosks, it's the use of guild kiosks as the only effective means of public trading.
/zone WTS Dwemer Motif: Axes 10K or trade for one I don't have [Dwemer Style Master]
One of my friends finds a lot of blue motif books. He went to zone chat and sold half a dozen of them in 20 minutes when he needed inventory space. The others he sells in the guild store.
I guess that depends on the level you're at and the popularity of the zone you're in. It isn't really effective for everyone, and it doesn't address the problem of finding the item that you're after buying.1 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »
Yes, but supply and demand is a financial pressure, trust me on this one.
I trust you. I learned this in Econ 101, 102, 201, 202, 310, 346, 422, 432, and 456 in my pursuit of an Econ Minor...Weirdly we only had 2 people graduate from that program in a bachelors, and a bunch with minors.....
Increase Supply with no other changes and prices go down.
Exactly, but lets leave at that, if we go into much more detail (I haven't got a degree, but I have got accounting qualifications for AAT (British Professional Body)) then someone will complain.Edited by AlexDougherty on December 3, 2014 9:08PMPeople believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭After searching 6 cities with multiple kiosks for some stupid plump maggots today, wasting game time for nothing....I am even more on the train to dump kiosks all together and allow each faction a central AH. Not more kiosks, LESS kiosks!If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!1 -
Evergnar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm for more kiosks in centralized areas like the towns they are in now. Just more of them. Maybe 5-10 more per town. Also need to get more product out there via more players per guild, or more guilds per user, or more selling slots per users guild (50-100 vs current 30 each member has).0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Psychobunni wrote: »After searching 6 cities with multiple kiosks for some stupid plump maggots today, wasting game time for nothing....I am even more on the train to dump kiosks all together and allow each faction a central AH. Not more kiosks, LESS kiosks!
You need Plump Worms? I have lots of those, message me in game. I must destroy about 30 to 50 of them a day as I don't want to take up more bag space with them.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Psychobunni wrote: »After searching 6 cities with multiple kiosks for some stupid plump maggots today, wasting game time for nothing....I am even more on the train to dump kiosks all together and allow each faction a central AH. Not more kiosks, LESS kiosks!
You need Plump Worms? I have lots of those, message me in game. I must destroy about 30 to 50 of them a day as I don't want to take up more bag space with them.
You get Plumb Maggots as well, they are ingredients in dishes like Maggot Haggis. Image reminds me of white prawns (cooked prawns but white) for some reason.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Nestor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »You get Plumb Maggots as well, they are ingredients in dishes like Maggot Haggis. Image reminds me of white prawns (cooked prawns but white) for some reason.
No, I don't have any Maggots (I think I don't anyway, I can't see me picking up any of those). The only reason I have the worms is Alchemy farming, as I am not going to be the guy who leaves worms and crawlers behind after taking the reagents.
Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.
PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »You get Plumb Maggots as well, they are ingredients in dishes like Maggot Haggis. Image reminds me of white prawns (cooked prawns but white) for some reason.
No, I don't have any Maggots (I think I don't anyway, I can't see me picking up any of those). The only reason I have the worms is Alchemy farming, as I am not going to be the guy who leaves worms and crawlers behind after taking the reagents.
Likewise, I also pick up the bugs, it's only polite (it really irks me when you go to collect a plant and there are just bugs).
I have used the Plumb Maggots, I have to turn my imagination off were the food is concerned. They are a necessary requirement if you are levelling up n EP (Maggot Haggis amongst other recipes for that faction).People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »
So do I.
I'm in 4 guilds that have stores (3 with traders, one without)
When I log in, I go to one of two characters that hold my sales gold, get all the gold from the sales through the guild stores they hold. Check what sold, replace the stuff from inventory for that character, move to the second one and do the same.
Then go to my other toons to get the rest of the hireling mail and then decide which toon gets to come out and play.
If I want to buy something in particular, I will go to certain traders I know have good stores. If you have the Awesome Guild Store addon you can just set up your search and easily repeat it across several stores. It usually takes me no longer than 15 minutes to go through all traders in 4 major centres. That's how I got my Sanctuary set when I was V6, and I've also done this to search for stuff friends were looking for.
It really doesn't seem like that much work to me.
Juggling 4 alts, all in different guilds. Yeah, that certainly makes more sense then having all your characters in 1 guild, and selling on one public or even faction auction house, like every other successful MMO ever created.
I'm sorry. Are you new to this game? Characters don't join guilds here. Players do.
I use two of my characters to hold different types of inventory that I want to sell and one of those characters holds the money I make in my social guild and the other the money that's made in the trading guilds. It's my way of keeping track of how much money I make per week. I could use a notebook or spreadsheet, but I like doing it this way. I'm going to cycle through my toons to get the hireling mail anyway, so adding a few minutes to grab the money and list more stuff isn't a big deal.
That's my way of doing things. Your mileage may vary.
Now, say we had a public faction-wide server, how many slots per player would that allow? Right now, I have access to 120 slots (30 per store). I don't think an auction house would give me anywhere near that.Psychobunni wrote: »After searching 6 cities with multiple kiosks for some stupid plump maggots today, wasting game time for nothing....I am even more on the train to dump kiosks all together and allow each faction a central AH. Not more kiosks, LESS kiosks!
Are you in NA? I'm quite sure my provisioner has plump maggots. If not, I have a toon at the right level who can find them easily.
I really need to remember to list more provisioning ingredients.The Moot Councillor0 -
HydroCanuck✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »
So do I.
I'm in 4 guilds that have stores (3 with traders, one without)
When I log in, I go to one of two characters that hold my sales gold, get all the gold from the sales through the guild stores they hold. Check what sold, replace the stuff from inventory for that character, move to the second one and do the same.
Then go to my other toons to get the rest of the hireling mail and then decide which toon gets to come out and play.
If I want to buy something in particular, I will go to certain traders I know have good stores. If you have the Awesome Guild Store addon you can just set up your search and easily repeat it across several stores. It usually takes me no longer than 15 minutes to go through all traders in 4 major centres. That's how I got my Sanctuary set when I was V6, and I've also done this to search for stuff friends were looking for.
It really doesn't seem like that much work to me.
Juggling 4 alts, all in different guilds. Yeah, that certainly makes more sense then having all your characters in 1 guild, and selling on one public or even faction auction house, like every other successful MMO ever created.
I'm sorry. Are you new to this game? Characters don't join guilds here. Players do.
I use two of my characters to hold different types of inventory that I want to sell and one of those characters holds the money I make in my social guild and the other the money that's made in the trading guilds. It's my way of keeping track of how much money I make per week. I could use a notebook or spreadsheet, but I like doing it this way. I'm going to cycle through my toons to get the hireling mail anyway, so adding a few minutes to grab the money and list more stuff isn't a big deal.
That's my way of doing things. Your mileage may vary.
Now, say we had a public faction-wide server, how many slots per player would that allow? Right now, I have access to 120 slots (30 per store). I don't think an auction house would give me anywhere near that.Psychobunni wrote: »After searching 6 cities with multiple kiosks for some stupid plump maggots today, wasting game time for nothing....I am even more on the train to dump kiosks all together and allow each faction a central AH. Not more kiosks, LESS kiosks!
Are you in NA? I'm quite sure my provisioner has plump maggots. If not, I have a toon at the right level who can find them easily.
I really need to remember to list more provisioning ingredients.
You said you were in 4 guilds......
A public AH would be more convenient. There is no way to convince me otherwise. How many slots would you get? Well that would be up to the developers now, wouldn't it.
0 -
AaronMB✭✭✭Four stores isn't inconvenient when it's done from the bank; it's just a few more button clicks to swap guild stores. No biggie. I don't think anyone does it otherwise, do they? lol
Of course the number of slots would be up to the developers; it's all up to the developers... It is fair to assume that it wouldn't be the same [total] number available.Edited by AaronMB on December 3, 2014 10:34PM0 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Alnilam TY. I finally got 4 off a player
Was enough to make 16 Haggis, that will have to do.
It was simply the point of searching so long, inputting info every time (I think I saw someone say once an addon does this for you, but no, I won't get yet another addon to be broken on update/abandoned/whatever bc ZOS is basic)
when a main house per faction, or even simply map would make it all so much easier.If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!0 -
TheLaw✭✭✭✭More like too many kiosks. We need a more unified system...-= Shahrzad the Great |Sorc| =-0 -
Razzak✭✭✭✭✭How simple is the current system? How easy is it for the -entire- population to participate? Are there better ways to create a gold sink? Should buying and selling even be a significant gold sink?
To participate in the guild merchant system (as a seller) you have to:
- Join a guild with a merchant
- Hope that merchant stays operational
- Hope that buyers come across that particular merchant to see your gear.
If the guild fails to win a bid, you're situation as a seller changes -significantly- as does the location of the merchant.
As a trade guild member, generally, you don't have any control over these things. The only thing you can do is just ship from one that is (currently) infavorable to one that is (currently) in better condition, if you can get in, or just ride it out and hope it gets better.
Factor all that in and it makes for a roller coaster ride.
From a supply side perspective, it's very nichey. If not everyone can participate that has goods to sell, we're not seeing a true picture of supply availability. Furthermore if sellers and their goods shift with the fluctuating merchant situation, the supply availability and prices keep changing as well.
All of this makes it a pain for the seller to try to maintain a consistent, simple, and low maintenance avenue for selling goods.
The buyer perspective also has to deal with this indirectly. Do buyers want to spend hours going from kiosk to kiosk, week to week, wading through the rollercoaster of supply shifts? Probably not.
Those that circumvent this whole system sell in zone. From which NO taxes are collected and no gold sink! The by-product is more zone spam which adds to the desensitization of paying attention to zone, which puts up a wall for potential buyers to reach goods they want. The only sink in this situation is time, not gold, how cool is that?
ESOs economy and avenues of trade are a pain for what should be a relatively simple thing to buy and sell goods.
Also, how well does this system SCALE? There is a set number of kiosks, If ESO gains 10,000 players next month how would that work out? 20 new trade guilds with 500 members fighting for the same number of kiosks? how about 100,000 new players? And those that don't or can't participate in the guild merchant rollercoaster system, what do they do? Spam zone? Get frustrated?
I'll grant this kiosk system is interesting and definitely adds a new twist to the game, but it's exclusionary, shifting, adds barriers of both knowledge and means to new players, divides players between the guild market and the zone chat market (each with their respective pains)... Just to buy and sell goods?
Also another factor, the fact that guilds now can MAKE gold from guild store transactions in addition to the gold sink game tax adds in further problematic dimensions. Some guilds are non for profit, taking this gold and spending it on merchant bids, some are for profit, seeking ways to make gold from their guild members. In either case, is the guild spending wisely? Are they milking the members? Again these things beyond the control of the guild member, and the seller has to worry about being in a "good" trade guild even more.
I can see this more as an element of a complicated and rich game like EVE but not ESO.
Would a global AH make this simpler? easier? see the whole economy as it is?
What about regional? AHs in different zones? There's gotta be a way to make it simpler, allow everyone to participate, let people be in control of their own trading, other than zone.
Couldn't agree more.0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭After a few weeks of trying to hit every guild store to find what I want, I now go to Rawl'kha (3 stores) and Mournhold (Hlaalu). Other stores may carry what I want for a slightly better price, but it simply isn't worth my time. I could farm 10x the gold in the time it takes to hop from store to store. Even if that wasn't true, the sheer tediousness of it all puts me in a place where I simply don't care if I pay more.
So, while you think it's a good thing to have a huge number of merchants without any central search function, many people just patronize a few. It's a bad system.1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭HydroCanuck wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »HydroCanuck wrote: »
So do I.
I'm in 4 guilds that have stores (3 with traders, one without)
When I log in, I go to one of two characters that hold my sales gold, get all the gold from the sales through the guild stores they hold. Check what sold, replace the stuff from inventory for that character, move to the second one and do the same.
Then go to my other toons to get the rest of the hireling mail and then decide which toon gets to come out and play.
If I want to buy something in particular, I will go to certain traders I know have good stores. If you have the Awesome Guild Store addon you can just set up your search and easily repeat it across several stores. It usually takes me no longer than 15 minutes to go through all traders in 4 major centres. That's how I got my Sanctuary set when I was V6, and I've also done this to search for stuff friends were looking for.
It really doesn't seem like that much work to me.
Juggling 4 alts, all in different guilds. Yeah, that certainly makes more sense then having all your characters in 1 guild, and selling on one public or even faction auction house, like every other successful MMO ever created.
I'm sorry. Are you new to this game? Characters don't join guilds here. Players do.
I use two of my characters to hold different types of inventory that I want to sell and one of those characters holds the money I make in my social guild and the other the money that's made in the trading guilds. It's my way of keeping track of how much money I make per week. I could use a notebook or spreadsheet, but I like doing it this way. I'm going to cycle through my toons to get the hireling mail anyway, so adding a few minutes to grab the money and list more stuff isn't a big deal.
That's my way of doing things. Your mileage may vary.
Now, say we had a public faction-wide server, how many slots per player would that allow? Right now, I have access to 120 slots (30 per store). I don't think an auction house would give me anywhere near that.Psychobunni wrote: »After searching 6 cities with multiple kiosks for some stupid plump maggots today, wasting game time for nothing....I am even more on the train to dump kiosks all together and allow each faction a central AH. Not more kiosks, LESS kiosks!
Are you in NA? I'm quite sure my provisioner has plump maggots. If not, I have a toon at the right level who can find them easily.
I really need to remember to list more provisioning ingredients.
You said you were in 4 guilds......
A public AH would be more convenient. There is no way to convince me otherwise. How many slots would you get? Well that would be up to the developers now, wouldn't it.
While a public AH would be more convenient, it would not jive with the general game feel for me, and I would not use it. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I do like the guild trader system and I think they fit in well with the general atmosphere of the game.Psychobunni wrote: »@Alnilam TY. I finally got 4 off a player Was enough to make 16 Haggis, that will have to do.
It was simply the point of searching so long, inputting info every time (I think I saw someone say once an addon does this for you, but no, I won't get yet another addon to be broken on update/abandoned/whatever bc ZOS is basic)
when a main house per faction, or even simply map would make it all so much easier.
AwesomeGuildStore. If the game limited me to only one addon, it's probably the one I'd pick (though BankManager is a close second.)
I forget what the guild stores are like for folks who don't use it. I really think ZOS needs to work on the interface, and they should really just buy the rights to AwesomeGuildStore and incorporate it into their UI. It makes the whole guild trader experience soooo much better!The Moot Councillor0 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭
While a public AH would be more convenient, it would not jive with the general game feel for me, and I would not use it. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I do like the guild trader system and I think they fit in well with the general atmosphere of the game.
What do you mean by game feel?
I see an acknowledgement that a more centralized system would be more convenient, so I can only take from that that the current system does have factors that are inconvenient. So something else about it gives you a positive jive. Is it running around looking for things from vendor to vendor, zone to zone, like an adventure for you?
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
While a public AH would be more convenient, it would not jive with the general game feel for me, and I would not use it. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I do like the guild trader system and I think they fit in well with the general atmosphere of the game.
What do you mean by game feel?
Every game has it's own feel, things that fit well in one MMO stand out as wrong in others. It's a combination of the mechanics, Lore, gameplay, and society within the game. (yes, each one of those is different, and each one affects the feel of the game).People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
There was a time when players had to merchant their loot and there wasnt any AH system in MMO's. That actually created centers of trade and places players gathered. It also made people socialize far more. The Kiosk system brings the AH system to some extent to the game but still maintains the merchant players communication in the game. It's really a hybrid system and so far I think its a good idea. I would like to see some mails sent down though from the designers asking for trade center locations best suitable for guild traders in players minds and then have atleast 5 to 10 Kiosks in each trade hub. That might help alleviate some of this and also create more places where players gather. This offers newer players more places to find groups and help in game.Edited by mandragor1996 on December 4, 2014 4:56PM1
-
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭I don't know why, but I'm thinking of a mall.
We've all been to the mall right?
There are a few different types of shoppers that go to the mall that I've noticed.
1) POWER SHOPPERS - Those that know what they want and where to get it. They go to their shops, grab their stuff, and get the hell out. They've got other things to do that spend the day shopping.
2) BROWSERS - There are those with no real plan, that go from store to store, they take pleasure in finding or running across things and make the process an adventure in itself.
3) HYBRIDS - There are those in between. Have goals and targets but also like to spend some time seeing what else is out there and have some time to kill to do so.
Now I can't say which type is more predominant, and sometimes it comes down to how much time you have or want to spend shopping rather than what "type" of shopper someone tends to be.
But from the buyer perspective, let's see how that works for ESO.
We're kind of being forced into being #2 shoppers with the system in place and here's why"
Imagine a mall where the individual stores sell (or could sell) the same goods or a subset of the same goods. But you don't know which has what. Great for the #2 browser types, nightmare for the #1 power shopper types and annoying (at best) to the #3 hybrid types that still have goals but don't mind some browsing.
Factor in that the goods that are available in any single shop change day to day, week to week. Compound the effects with as above for the shopper types.
Add in that that one shop can either change location or disappear from week to week. Compound the effects with as above for the shopper types.
Add in that there are many malls to go to (hubs with multiple guild merchants). Compound the effects with as above for the shopper types.
Add in there are those looking for deals or concerned with price. That means comparing between stores and malls, oh that's gonna be a headache...
All this combined,
#1 Types are probably ready to pull out their hair.
#2 Types are in heaven.
#3 Types still have goals so they are going to still likely get upset, even though they can also have fun in browsing, that will get old as frustration in not meeting desires in the goal oriented department will more often than not and over time overshadow the fun browsing side
Our current systems leans HEAVILY almost entirely towards browsing!
Those that want a simple, organized, and available system are the power shoppers or even hybrids and browsers that don't have time or want to spend their time doing other things (more fun).
Problem is, browsers can still browse in a more centralized system - but not like going mall to mall or store to store - so that would be a cut to browsers to change to that system.
But as it stands now, goal oriented shopping is a complete and utter headache and this whole segment of the population going nuts.
Without demographics to back this up I say this with an off the hip feel: It would seem that ESO would please more people and still somewhat satisfy browsers by going to a more organized, centralized, system.
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
While a public AH would be more convenient, it would not jive with the general game feel for me, and I would not use it. We will have to agree to disagree on this one. I do like the guild trader system and I think they fit in well with the general atmosphere of the game.
What do you mean by game feel?
I see an acknowledgement that a more centralized system would be more convenient, so I can only take from that that the current system does have factors that are inconvenient. So something else about it gives you a positive jive. Is it running around looking for things from vendor to vendor, zone to zone, like an adventure for you?
I think the current system meshes in well with the general atmosphere of the game. You are wandering around the world and you find a chest. Or a rift. Or M'aiq the Liar. Or a wandering merchant. Or a guild trader that may or may not have something for sale that you want. I'll check all of those out. I may just get some gold out of the chest. Or I may get a set item from a set I really want. The trader may have the last piece of the set I'm trying to put together at a reasonable price. Or treasure maps that are not overpriced. Or they may not.
It just fits in.
An AH would be Login to AH interface -> Search -> buy cheapest version of what I want. That would be pretty boring, even if it saves time. It just doesn't feel like part of ESO to me.
And oddly enough, looking at the post about the different kinds of shoppers, I'm more of a power shopper (unless we are talking about books and video games, in which I'm a hybrid). But I like the traders.
Now, as I mentioned in my previous post, I use AwesomeGuildStore and I have forgotten how clunky the vanilla Guild Store UI is. This addon really improves your experience 1000% and makes things far easier to find across multiple traders.The Moot Councillor1 -
Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭mandragor1996 wrote: »There was a time when players had to merchant their loot and there wasnt any AH system in MMO's. That actually created centers of trade and places players gathered. It also made people socialize far more. The Kiosk system brings the AH system to some extent to the game but still maintains the merchant players communication in the game. It's really a hybrid system and so far I think its a good idea. I would like to see some mails sent down though from the designers asking for trade center locations best suitable for guild traders in players minds and then have atleast 5 to 10 Kiosks in each trade hub. That might help alleviate some of this and also create more places where players gather. This offers newer players more places to find groups and help in game.
There was also a time before MMOs where we'd gather and play pen and paper and socialize and it would take 4 hours to get through -part- of a dungeon. You could spend an hour in a town or tavern alone just trying to get a lead on where the fabled sword of whatever could be found...
Times certainly have changed. We tend to have lots less leisure time and in the time we do have we have more to do, generally because there is more available to do in comparison these days. Why spend a year playing table top getting through one little campaign when in a fraction of that time you can get though a complete heroic journey (or even several) in modern MMOs or computer games?
Sure some would say take your time, it's all about enjoying the ride and also enjoying the social aspects. But to a vast segment of the gaming population, these days, it's more like a video game - win, get the high score, whatever. And the MMO part of it, playing with so many other people, actually becomes a competition metric and driver rather than social grounds; gamer X will see Gamer Y at max level kicking ass and needs to -hurry- to get there.
Anyway....
In regards to the topic of buying and selling I think certainly there can be a link to social gathering but in this case it's usually in regards to people getting frustrated not finding what they want from the (non-social) interaction with the NPC merchants and turning to says yells and zone chats.
"Power" gamers will see the current system as a road block. Social/RP gamers see it as an opportunity. Social gamers and power gamers are two very very different breeds with different needs and perspectives.
An indirect issue with this game is that there is soooooo much player turnover due to issues and immaturity of the game it's hard to develop a strong community, which is probably making social gaming more difficult. Which is probably making social gamers fight harder to want less power gamer like design features in the game in order to herd people to the social side.
Unfortunately, it's a numbers and money game. There are a lot of power gamers in ESO, dropping their $$$ into this game, probably contributing a substantial portion keeping it this boat afloat.
If I was a social gamer (I consider myself in between), I'd think about capitulating towards the needs that power gamers desire in order to retain them because social gaming can be done in so many ways with not necessarily needing game mechanics and design to force it. But power gamers want the game, code and design-wise to meet their needs. It's REALLY hard to design the feel and function of the game to please these two polar opposites!
One solution that other games have done to deal with this, is have an "RP" server. But with ESO's megaserver design... well, don't see that happening.
Anyway, kinda got off the topic of the trade system. But it does relate pretty heavily in the background.
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"0 -
Psychobunni✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am the power shopper you describe @Sylvyr
I am this in RL too, prone to "cart rage" with browsers, meet and greet shoppers in my way....LMAO
@AlnilamE I may be forced to check it out (Awesome Guildstore that is)If options weren't necessary, and everyone played the same way, no one would use addons. Fix the UI!0