ZOS and roleplaying

Robocles · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Sindala wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

You know we just started with our the guild traders coming in and I think those are systems that really appeal to roleplayers.

LOL, omg!!! hehehahahahHAHAHAHA!!!!! oh poo....I just wet myself...

Yeah. That was LITERALLY the part that made me stop and think, "UM...he doesn't actually know what roleplaying is, does he?"

Yep... RolePlaying is making sure you are awake to get that last bid in............

Samadhi · December 2014

Going by what he says, he seems to be looking at systems that increase immersion, which in turn facilitates role-play on an individual level. Would say this is executed well. Not a player who stands around in a tavern and does text-based role playing with other people, but am very much a player that gets absorbed in my character's role in Tamriel and makes game decisions based on my character's past and place in the world, rather than what I feel optimizes things as a gamer at the keyboard.

I think he maintains a pretty good view of what role playing is, in terms of what a Developer needs to address. As a developer, it is his job to facilitate player ability to become absorbed in their character and create an immersive and living world.
What he says about Guild Traders actually does ring true for me, it just reflects on the discrepancy between world building and role players desires. Visiting guild traders does make me feel more involved with my character than simply visiting an auction house does; it is the little things that mesh together in this way.

I have a lot of respect for text-driven role players in MMOs even though I do not take active part; seeing them in a tavern often makes me reflect on my D&D days.
With that said, think that role players need to get together and do up a solid list of things they want to see, why, and how it will help in the structure of the game.
A simple example would be a list of desirable new emotes and what actions they would display.

As a developer it is his responsibility to give players an immersive world to role play within, that has been done well.
As a developer it is also his responsibility to facilitate player interactions in a way that promotes role playing; would say that he is part way there due to successes in world building, but could stand to take some feedback of the little things that would make the game better for role players.

Personally, as a very small thing, I would like my character to be able to target and interact with her wife by means of contact kiss or a genuine embrace.

There may be a way to go yet, but think that some good things have been done in this game to facilitate character immersion.

Robocles · December 2014

Single player isn't the role play we are talking about.

MornaBaine · December 2014

Um, wow, I just realized some moderator stealthed in here and changed the title of this thread. Are we not allowed to talk about Paul Sage?

Robocles · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

Um, wow, I just realized some moderator stealthed in here and changed the title of this thread. Are we not allowed to talk about Paul Sage?

I guess not. At least they didn't just show up and hem and haw and say nothing of consequence.

We've got that going for us, which is nice.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · December 2014

As someone with over 25 YEARS of online role playing in a text based games (OK, I am old) I find the fact that I can see my characters to be a huge difference from when I first started roleplaying. Granted, I come from completely text based games like mux and mush. I have found that as a dm, you have to do a bit of work to find a good place to do the action RP. For example, if you want to fight against werewolves, there is that village in Bangkorai. Sometimes you have to look at what is available in the game. Why else would Evermore be used for White Haven? When my character was a lot lower level than she is now, we had to use Cyrodil to be Skyrim for an adventure as I could not get there with my own character. The only thing that a RPer needs is a good imagination. My current plot in the game is half in Cyrodil as Cyrodil itself with the fact that there is the chance of getting hit by PvP to represent the war. Sometimes you have to tailor the plot to the game. Be flexible with the plot and use the PvE as your advantage. Know the game. Yes, there are some RPers that can not fully use the game. I used to be that way. Now even my lowest alt that I am keeping can access Cyrodil. (My Worm Hunter has the best luck finding Wormies. She has killed many of them near dolmens.)

Someone mentioned chat bubbles. I hate those things as they mess up the scenery.

But as a RPer, we need housing to help with the troll problem. There is nothing worse than sitting on the ground RPing and a troll come and do push ups on your character. As a rl *** victim, it is horrible and brings back memories best forgotten. I just hope that ZOS took action against the troll who did that. I know that the troll thought he was being funny. I reported him. Maybe if ZOS did something to him, he might learn that some actions have consequences. Housing would help greatly.

Yes, appearance changes and name changes within reason would be nice.

eventide03b14a_ESO · December 2014

Having other people is not a requirement of roleplaying. Other than that I agree with the OP. Roleplaying has taken a back seat in this game. They have instead chosen to focus on combat, albeit poorly.

MornaBaine · December 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

Going by what he says, he seems to be looking at systems that increase immersion, which in turn facilitates role-play on an individual level. Would say this is executed well. Not a player who stands around in a tavern and does text-based role playing with other people, but am very much a player that gets absorbed in my character's role in Tamriel and makes game decisions based on my character's past and place in the world, rather than what I feel optimizes things as a gamer at the keyboard.

I think he maintains a pretty good view of what role playing is, in terms of what a Developer needs to address. As a developer, it is his job to facilitate player ability to become absorbed in their character and create an immersive and living world.

Maybe THIS is where the big disconnect is. Roleplayers certainly WANT an immersive world. But that is not roleplay. Roleplay is interaction among player characters. And MMOS would, at first glance, seem to be a roleplayers paradise. But the reality tends to be that roleplayers end up feeling frozen out of the very games they invest in heavily in the hope that, FINALLY, game makers will "get it." The quests in this game are truly wonderful and I enjoy the heck out of them. They are indeed immersive. But they aren't roleplaying. And they aren't nearly as fun as roleplaying.

The most fun I've had in this game wasn't following any particular questline. It was when my vampire was doing her damned best to convince her liege lord, who is a mortal follower of Stendarr, NOT to cut the tongue out of her houseguest who knew things about him he would prefer didn't get around! It was tense and, like in PvP, was fun because of the utterly unpredictable nature of dealing with another human player as opposed to a predictable AI opponent. Indeed, the very things that PvPers like about playing with and against other players is, in many ways, the exact same thing roleplayers like about playing with and against other players!

And while the questlines in the game itself ARE fun... they aren't nearly as fun as the times we have set up RP battles against NPCs being controlled by a Player GM using an outside system to determine outcomes of actions we, the players, took. And it was fun because the storyline associated with it personally involved the characters of many of the players and was very high stakes, something the game itself cannot offer. But other players can.

Of course the big difference between roleplayers and PvPers is that PvPers get XP, loot and awesome gear and roleplayers get... exactly nothing. Now I'm not saying that in any way being derogatory towards PvPers. They are doing things that are measurable within the structure of the game itself so rewards and consequences are easy to implement. But here's the thing. Roleplayers don't care about rewards. We just want stuff that that makes it easier to interact with EACH OTHER. Because THAT would be our reward. So let us duel each other! Let us sit on chairs and benches! Let us do that AND drink! Or read! Give us awesome costumes (like CULTURAL costumes!) and lots of pets and cool items that give neat effects. INTERACTIVE emotes, like toasting or hugging or shaking hands would be pretty awesome too. But definitely more emotes in general!

Maybe even go really crazy ZOS and give Player GMs the ability to set up their own quests and scenarios and the ability to spawn the mobs they need for them. It CAN be done.

But most of all, Mr. Sage and ZOS in general really need to understand that immersion is important and it CONTRIBUTES to roleplay, but immersion is NOT roleplay. And roleplay actually requires very little in the way of tools. The only BIG thing roleplayers REALLY want is player housing...and possibly guild cities. And even non-roleplayers want those things!

MornaBaine · December 2014

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Having other people is not a requirement of roleplaying. Other than that I agree with the OP. Roleplaying has taken a back seat in this game. They have instead chosen to focus on combat, albeit poorly.

I'm trying to figure out why you think other players are not required for roleplaying. Not being combative, but I'm really puzzled. Can I play the game alone and just do the quests and imagine things about my character in my head that are helped along by the scenery? Of course. But that isn't roleplaying. That's just high tech daydreaming. LOL Roleplaying is when my character meets another character and they speak to one another. That's roleplaying at its most basic level. And it requires another person.

Samadhi · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

...But here's the thing. Roleplayers don't care about rewards. We just want stuff that that makes it easier to interact with EACH OTHER. Because THAT would be our reward. So let us duel each other! Let us sit on chairs and benches! Let us do that AND drink! Or read! Give us awesome costumes (like CULTURAL costumes!) and lots of pets and cool items that give neat effects. INTERACTIVE emotes, like toasting or hugging or shaking hands would be pretty awesome too. But definitely more emotes in general!
...
But most of all, Mr. Sage and ZOS in general really need to understand that immersion is important and it CONTRIBUTES to roleplay, but immersion is NOT roleplay. And roleplay actually requires very little in the way of tools. The only BIG thing roleplayers REALLY want is player housing...and possibly guild cities. And even non-roleplayers want those things!

Yeah this is basically where my post was going.

The developers have done a wonderful job of making a world that feels really alive and interesting, but player to player interactions feel a little...tacked on and not quite as fluid as would be nice.
ZOS has a great structure in place, they just need to find more means to facilitate activities for role players. The best way to do this is by paying attention the to requests of role players; many of the mechanics that are being sought are things that would improve the overall feeling of the world for all players, even those that are not actively asking for them.

The world of Tamriel is generally constructed well and welcomes getting absorbed in a character, but what ZOS needs to focus on now is providing players with the means to make their own interactions with others in that world feel more meaningful.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Having other people is not a requirement of roleplaying. Other than that I agree with the OP. Roleplaying has taken a back seat in this game. They have instead chosen to focus on combat, albeit poorly.

I'm trying to figure out why you think other players are not required for roleplaying. Not being combative, but I'm really puzzled. Can I play the game alone and just do the quests and imagine things about my character in my head that are helped along by the scenery? Of course. But that isn't roleplaying. That's just high tech daydreaming. LOL Roleplaying when when my character meets another character and they speak to one another. That's roleplaying at its most basic level. And it requires another person.

Actually, it doesn't require a second person. One of the best RP scenes that I did came from a scene that I did all by myself on Star Wars :Age of Alliances mux. I logged the scene and shared it to the others via a website. My lek was just learning how to cook. To separate the eggs, she put one in one corner and the other egg in another corner. She then whipped the cream (with her hand of course) The cake didn't taste right for some reason.

I even did a solo scene here on ESO. My Altmer female Indiana Jones decided to go delving by herself. She was level 4. The dungeon was in northern Rivenspire. When the others found her... Well let's just say that she was barred from delving alone. (I need to get her to VR so she can have more adventures like that again)

MornaBaine · December 2014

Samadhi wrote: »

[

The world of Tamriel is generally constructed well and welcomes getting absorbed in a character, but what ZOS needs to focus on now is providing players with the means to make their own interactions with others in that world feel more meaningful.

Yes! So all of this! Because clicking the "Agree" was just not enough! LOL

MornaBaine · December 2014

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Having other people is not a requirement of roleplaying. Other than that I agree with the OP. Roleplaying has taken a back seat in this game. They have instead chosen to focus on combat, albeit poorly.

I'm trying to figure out why you think other players are not required for roleplaying. Not being combative, but I'm really puzzled. Can I play the game alone and just do the quests and imagine things about my character in my head that are helped along by the scenery? Of course. But that isn't roleplaying. That's just high tech daydreaming. LOL Roleplaying when when my character meets another character and they speak to one another. That's roleplaying at its most basic level. And it requires another person.

Actually, it doesn't require a second person. One of the best RP scenes that I did came from a scene that I did all by myself on Star Wars :Age of Alliances mux. I logged the scene and shared it to the others via a website. My lek was just learning how to cook. To separate the eggs, she put one in one corner and the other egg in another corner. She then whipped the cream (with her hand of course) The cake didn't taste right for some reason.

I even did a solo scene here on ESO. My Altmer female Indiana Jones decided to go delving by herself. She was level 4. The dungeon was in northern Rivenspire. When the others found her... Well let's just say that she was barred from delving alone. (I need to get her to VR so she can have more adventures like that again)

See, to me what you describe is an enhancement or an addition to roleplaying, not roleplaying itself. It would be like saying the stories I post about Morna in teso-rp are roleplaying. They are not. They are stories about my character. But it's interesting to come across this view for sure.

RDMyers65b14_ESO · December 2014

To me, where I type the scene is what makes the difference between a RP and a story. Let me give an example. I type the character killing wormies on notepad, it is a story. If I type her out killing wormies on the game at a dolman where another person can join, it's a RP.

MornaBaine · December 2014

RDMyers65b14_ESO wrote: »

To me, where I type the scene is what makes the difference between a RP and a story. Let me give an example. I type the character killing wormies on notepad, it is a story. If I type her out killing wormies on the game at a dolman where another person can join, it's a RP.

Ah ha! So there's POTENTIAL roleplay involved!

LOL

Tashira_Ronin · December 2014

Please may I step back ward without turning around and without drawing my weapon. Just a little thing.

Another thread covers suitable furniture, or given the emote to sit chair , please remove the chairs.

However on topic,
Whilst I have replied to the OP on another thread on this, I agree there seems to be a disconnect between what RPer think RP is ..when it is with other players and what zeni think is RP.

I RP when in the world all the time! my characters are muses and tell me their story and talk to me all the time. ( yes it's called immersion) BUT I am, like the OP concerned that zeni does not understand what RP means in respect to a community of RPers when we are together interacting with each other.

Yes we do get together and use our imagination to write out our emotes and conversation, that will not stop, but the more tools they give us the more immersive it can be.

nalimoleb14_ESO · December 2014

I'm curious, do you guys know that new-ish feature in ESO where if you mouse over an NPC or player next to you, your character turns his/her head to look at them? I think it's really neat, especially when RPing, but I'm starting to get the feeling that no one else can see your character turn his/her head but you. If they could make it so that we can see all characters (not just our own) turning their heads, that might help a bit with the "weird, static mannequins typing speech bubbles to each other" problem.

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

I have to agree. ZOS really seems to hate RPers. I mean they hate them so much that one ESO live on Friday they will spend 20 minutes talking about RP events instead of giving the other 99% of the player base any news about the game.

Heishi · December 2014

I do think it'd be cool to get some more RP'centric mechanics, but in all fairness, a lot of the ones I've seen asked for are things I've rarely if at all ever even seen in an mmorpg.

It's good to have wishful thinking or say "wouldn't it be great if" but I can't understand expecting it to happen and getting upset/impatient when it doesn't.

MornaBaine · December 2014

nalimoleb14_ESO wrote: »

I'm curious, do you guys know that new-ish feature in ESO where if you mouse over an NPC or player next to you, your character turns his/her head to look at them? I think it's really neat, especially when RPing, but I'm starting to get the feeling that no one else can see your character turn his/her head but you. If they could make it so that we can see all characters (not just our own) turning their heads, that might help a bit with the "weird, static mannequins typing speech bubbles to each other" problem.

Not all that new and it only "works" for you. My husband and I play side by side and we've tested it many time. I'll mouse over his character and on MY screen my character will turn her head to look at him. But on HIS screen she's looking off somewhere else entirely.

MornaBaine · December 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

I have to agree. ZOS really seems to hate RPers. I mean they hate them so much that one ESO live on Friday they will spend 20 minutes talking about RP events instead of giving the other 99% of the player base any news about the game.

I will actually be extraordinarily impressed if they devote even 10 minutes to RP. Even more impressed if it's ACTUALLY about RP.

MornaBaine · December 2014

Heishi wrote: »

I do think it'd be cool to get some more RP'centric mechanics, but in all fairness, a lot of the ones I've seen asked for are things I've rarely if at all ever even seen in an mmorpg.

It's good to have wishful thinking or say "wouldn't it be great if" but I can't understand expecting it to happen and getting upset/impatient when it doesn't.

Yeah there's a ton of things I'd love to see and know we never will. Like player driven events. But character customization, name changes, social clothing/costumes, player housing, guild cities, these are things a lot of players would like, not just the roleplayers, and these things would enhance RP tremendously. Also desirable are more emotes, more items with visual effects, more vanity pets and the ability to sit on furniture.

stewhead2ub17_ESO · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Having other people is not a requirement of roleplaying. Other than that I agree with the OP. Roleplaying has taken a back seat in this game. They have instead chosen to focus on combat, albeit poorly.

I'm trying to figure out why you think other players are not required for roleplaying. Not being combative, but I'm really puzzled. Can I play the game alone and just do the quests and imagine things about my character in my head that are helped along by the scenery? Of course. But that isn't roleplaying. That's just high tech daydreaming. LOL Roleplaying is when my character meets another character and they speak to one another. That's roleplaying at its most basic level. And it requires another person.

Haha I didn't expect my little post to garner such attention, but thanks to all who've taken the time to give their 2 coppers worth or peruse it. Regarding actual RP, I've always felt that it is incumbent on the players. The MMO gives us the canvas but it is the players who make it come alive. As for the above, I've done plenty of RP just interacting with various NPC's in front of PC's. You never know when something fun may jump off. It makes me shake my head when I see in general chats things like "where is RP"? It can be anywhere, scripted or on the fly. As for griefers and trolls, well I just ignore them or if I'm feeling feisty, will poke fun of them IC. As I stated originally, it's your money, play how you want, but SO WILL I!!

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

I have to agree. ZOS really seems to hate RPers. I mean they hate them so much that one ESO live on Friday they will spend 20 minutes talking about RP events instead of giving the other 99% of the player base any news about the game.

I will actually be extraordinarily impressed if they devote even 10 minutes to RP. Even more impressed if it's ACTUALLY about RP.

Do you watch ESO Live at all? Cause every single episode they devote time to letting people know about RP event's. If you start an RP event you email them and they put it on the live stream so everyone knows when and where it is. Takes about 10-20 minutes every episode. There have even been GM's and devs who show up to the events on Occasion. Not always but on occasion.

driosketch · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

The ONE thing I have seen them do, and for which I am duly grateful, is respond when they get a bunch of reports about a player griefing RP. They actually do respond and remove them. And that's freaking HUGE.

And yes, they'll send a GM to your RP event if you ask. Also, huge. It was great when they made a bunch of NPC emotes available to players. I love them. But they still need to add a lot more.

But, aside from GM presence, how does this game support RP events?

Wait, I'm sorry but can we stop the thread right here. RP has GMs at their beck and call? Why does this thread have such a pessimistic tone? Glass half full people!

MornaBaine · December 2014

driosketch wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

The ONE thing I have seen them do, and for which I am duly grateful, is respond when they get a bunch of reports about a player griefing RP. They actually do respond and remove them. And that's freaking HUGE.

And yes, they'll send a GM to your RP event if you ask. Also, huge. It was great when they made a bunch of NPC emotes available to players. I love them. But they still need to add a lot more.

But, aside from GM presence, how does this game support RP events?

Wait, I'm sorry but can we stop the thread right here. RP has GMs at their beck and call? Why does this thread have such a pessimistic tone? Glass half full people!

Oh the things they do right they do very right. Credit where it is due. But it's always a little sad to me that what roleplayers want is usually really small compared to...an entire new zone dedicated to group end game content... entire new areas for PvP activities... tons and tons of new armors to feed the ever present demand for more and better gear...

And then we're told to hush and quit being so selfish if we say, "Hey, we'd really like to be able to sit on chairs." Heavens forbid we should ask for more hairstyles before every single class is perfectly balanced for PvP.

Ahem. The glass MIGHT be half empty.

MornaBaine · December 2014

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

I have to agree. ZOS really seems to hate RPers. I mean they hate them so much that one ESO live on Friday they will spend 20 minutes talking about RP events instead of giving the other 99% of the player base any news about the game.

I will actually be extraordinarily impressed if they devote even 10 minutes to RP. Even more impressed if it's ACTUALLY about RP.

Do you watch ESO Live at all? Cause every single episode they devote time to letting people know about RP event's. If you start an RP event you email them and they put it on the live stream so everyone knows when and where it is. Takes about 10-20 minutes every episode. There have even been GM's and devs who show up to the events on Occasion. Not always but on occasion.

That's nice, it really is. But it's just an announcement of things PLAYERS are making happen. It's supportive. It's not in game mechanics support.

ers101284b14_ESO · December 2014

MornaBaine wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

I have to agree. ZOS really seems to hate RPers. I mean they hate them so much that one ESO live on Friday they will spend 20 minutes talking about RP events instead of giving the other 99% of the player base any news about the game.

I will actually be extraordinarily impressed if they devote even 10 minutes to RP. Even more impressed if it's ACTUALLY about RP.

Do you watch ESO Live at all? Cause every single episode they devote time to letting people know about RP event's. If you start an RP event you email them and they put it on the live stream so everyone knows when and where it is. Takes about 10-20 minutes every episode. There have even been GM's and devs who show up to the events on Occasion. Not always but on occasion.

That's nice, it really is. But it's just an announcement of things PLAYERS are making happen. It's supportive. It's not in game mechanics support.

It's them showing their support for RP players and the fact that they do actually care. Chat bubbles, guild tabards, armor dyes, motifs, having kiosks are all part of the immersive experience. I understand not everyone likes kiosks but is sitting at a board for hours on end buying and selling crap more imersive? I have seen them support RP players way more than most MMO's. (Not all but most.)

bellanca6561n · December 2014

Regardless, the show goes on....

http://youtu.be/P5SSCPzMUdI

zaria · December 2014

Robocles wrote: »

I can't turn to face somebody... I can't target them with an emote.

163 emotes is nice... but it would be nice to be able to use them in a seamless manner, without resorting to using block or some other mechanic to position my toon.

Simple solution let walk also reduce turning speed, this will make it easier to face somebody.
An targeted animation will then target the person you is aiming at.
Same way as addressing npc in any elder scroll game.
In none could you target anybody other ways.