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R.I.P Craglorn.
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DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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Grinding is no less a valid way to level to cap than questing or running dungeons, etc. If a person is paying to play a game they can choose to play it however they wish. The problem is even with the lower XP requirement of 1 mil per VR now, you hit a wall around VR10, like I did. I've completed 100% of the zones up through my VR10 zone. The only thing I have left is the quests in Craglorn, that's it, and I only made it to about 1/3rd into VR10. I didn't grind anything until now, when I feel I have no other choice but grind, which I hate personally because it's so boring.Grinding was silly. Glad it's gone
Those of us who did all the zone quests and cleared each zone's content did our due diligence and are right for feeling irritated that now we have ~4 VR to grind through because we chose to quest instead of grind back when it was so easy you could spam a VR in <30min. Vet dungeons give about 8% a VR per full clear, enemies give between 68-800 or so, with 414 being the average enemy and 800 being an elite VR10+. A full pack of (5-7) in Craglorn for those of us who are able to solo them gives 1100-2K total xp (Upper Craglorn, Scorpions/Wasps/Welwas) and 2.5-3K total xp (Lower Craglorn, Spellscar, and only because it has elite Air enemies).
There was someone who mentioned they read that ZoS lowered ALL XP gains in VR (while at the same time reducing each VR to 1 million) in preparation for the Champion System so that nobody could spam to the 700 point cap to fast. That's great for then but horrible for now. I'm not asking for less xp/Rank but how little xp we get now is terribad.3 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »What ZOS most likely does not want folks to know is, a vast majority of veteran level players have left the game. Craglorn was for Veteran level players. Craglorn is all about group content and once you have completed all it had to offer the only option was to repeat the content again or create a new character and start a new game. I for one was not about to pay money to repeat content I had all ready finished. The challenge and adventure was over.
This is the unfortunate cold hard truth, they made it WAY to easy to level (takes a few days to cap) and there is zero vertical progression, add to this the super easy no challenge "raids" and you have an end game flop. ZoS didn't learn from gw2 apparently.
Huh? So you are suggesting that is should take longer to get to V14, and that VR dungeons, Trials, and Arena should be harder? And you are suggesting this is the reason so many people are quiting the game?
Well, that's a first.
Not a first at all, many know it's true.
ZoS set the bar WAY to low in the beginning and everyone cries bloody murder whenever they raise it even a bit.0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »What ZOS most likely does not want folks to know is, a vast majority of veteran level players have left the game. Craglorn was for Veteran level players. Craglorn is all about group content and once you have completed all it had to offer the only option was to repeat the content again or create a new character and start a new game. I for one was not about to pay money to repeat content I had all ready finished. The challenge and adventure was over.
This is the unfortunate cold hard truth, they made it WAY to easy to level (takes a few days to cap) and there is zero vertical progression, add to this the super easy no challenge "raids" and you have an end game flop. ZoS didn't learn from gw2 apparently.
Huh? So you are suggesting that is should take longer to get to V14, and that VR dungeons, Trials, and Arena should be harder? And you are suggesting this is the reason so many people are quiting the game?
Well, that's a first.
Not a first at all, many know it's true.
ZoS set the bar WAY to low in the beginning and everyone cries bloody murder whenever they raise it even a bit.
Okay. Different strokes for different folks they say. However the general consensus is that many more people are leaving due to how long it takes to get to level cap rather than because it's too fast. Your typical paying subscriber does not power game to level cap in "a few days". And if that is your playstyle, then you are not going to find any level of satisfaction in anything you do. Ever.
I still value your subscription. We need them all. But power gamers and the people that hit V10 within a few days after launch are a nich crowd. They exist in every MMO and they are unhappy every time they run out of content. It's impossible to cater to this play style because it isn't a matter of content, it's a phsycological issue. They want to consume it much faster than it's economically viable to produce.
Edited by Alphashado on November 28, 2014 12:57PM4 -
Phelaen✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »i havent been playing for very long and i have restarted new toons a lot in the beginning so i only just recently got my first character to V1
And i have to say i kinda feel lost in hte game now. I dont really like to do quests, and since i made characters in all the different factions i dont really feel like doing all the quests on other factions again. What i did to get to V1 is all the quests that give skillpoints and just kill a lot of stuff in between and in coldharbour i grinded some zombies to get to 47 before doing the quests there to get to V
So now what do i do? I seriously dont know, is my only option to do more quests of which i allready done most of them on other toons? in factions i am enemies with? is there another way to get level at V1 comparible in speed to doing silver / gold quests? I went to Craglorn but the mobs there seemed a bit to high level for me. (had to look on google to find out how to get to craglorn, did i miss a conversation somewhere?)
Some people said wait till champion system. so i been leveling up alts. but i would like some advice if possible.
You can gain a LOT of XP by just doing map objectives like zone bosses, dolmen, opening chests, etc. But you will come to a road block at V5 because you can't access the next 5 zones (Cadwells Silver must be completed).
You are a typical example of the fork in the road where many people quit the game. And the main reason the VR system is getting replaced. If you really dislike questing, then my advice is just to complete only the sivler/gold required quests. You can find them in Cadwell's Almanac. It's located in your quest journal to the right of the quest icon. That will mean roughly 5-10 quests per zone. Once you get Cadwells gold unlocked, you can then explore the entire game. After you gain a few Vet Ranks, you can go to Craglorn with friends or find a mob you enjoy killing and grind away. You can also get XP from PvP in AvA, but it's a fairly slow rate.
thanks i will give it that a try and do only the needed quests and see where i end up VR level wise.
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deepseamk20b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Still don't understand how people had to grind in the first place. I never had to grind once to get my character to VR14. I just did every quest in each zone, explored around, did dungeons only a couple of times each, and boom there I was VR14.Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!3 -
jeevin✭✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Still don't understand how people had to grind in the first place. I never had to grind once to get my character to VR14. I just did every quest in each zone, explored around, did dungeons only a couple of times each, and boom there I was VR14.
Sometimes players grind to level alts. And not everyone is interested in questing they just want to get to endgame, pvp or trials.4 -
Breg_Magol✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Still don't understand how people had to grind in the first place. I never had to grind once to get my character to VR14. I just did every quest in each zone, explored around, did dungeons only a couple of times each, and boom there I was VR14.
I still don't understand how people like you can keep asking this question. Let me explain this again; and this time I hope that you can absorb this information so that it doesn't have to be repeatedly repeated repeatedly over and over and over and over .... again.
*Some* people (including me) find the questing in VR levels; where we have to do what essentially amounts to the same quests we did for levels 1 - 50 ... to be so watching-the-paint-dry-mind-warpingly-BORING ... DO YOU GET THAT!?
I say again ...
DO..YOU ..UNDERSTAND..WHAT..I..AM..SAYING!? (;o)
I would still prefer grinding Craglorn even now, however without that I will wait for the CS and Thieve guild before I resub .. unless ESO dies in the meantime.
The STUPID thing is that even though you think grinders are *stupid* and that we should all be just like your good and (no doubt) worthy self .. you.still.need.us.
The.game.needs.EVERY.subscription.it.can.get.
In a nutshell.
Edited by Breg_Magol on November 29, 2014 6:25AM3 -
kelly.medleyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »Still don't understand how people had to grind in the first place. I never had to grind once to get my character to VR14. I just did every quest in each zone, explored around, did dungeons only a couple of times each, and boom there I was VR14.
How did you manage to do all the quests? By the third zone I had outleveled the next zone and ended up skipping to CH and just doing the main quest lines from there, questing gives WAY to much xp I leveled up so fast I missed half the content.Alphashado wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »Alphashado wrote: »kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »What ZOS most likely does not want folks to know is, a vast majority of veteran level players have left the game. Craglorn was for Veteran level players. Craglorn is all about group content and once you have completed all it had to offer the only option was to repeat the content again or create a new character and start a new game. I for one was not about to pay money to repeat content I had all ready finished. The challenge and adventure was over.
This is the unfortunate cold hard truth, they made it WAY to easy to level (takes a few days to cap) and there is zero vertical progression, add to this the super easy no challenge "raids" and you have an end game flop. ZoS didn't learn from gw2 apparently.
Huh? So you are suggesting that is should take longer to get to V14, and that VR dungeons, Trials, and Arena should be harder? And you are suggesting this is the reason so many people are quiting the game?
Well, that's a first.
Not a first at all, many know it's true.
ZoS set the bar WAY to low in the beginning and everyone cries bloody murder whenever they raise it even a bit.
Okay. Different strokes for different folks they say. However the general consensus is that many more people are leaving due to how long it takes to get to level cap rather than because it's too fast. Your typical paying subscriber does not power game to level cap in "a few days". And if that is your playstyle, then you are not going to find any level of satisfaction in anything you do. Ever.
I still value your subscription. We need them all. But power gamers and the people that hit V10 within a few days after launch are a nich crowd. They exist in every MMO and they are unhappy every time they run out of content. It's impossible to cater to this play style because it isn't a matter of content, it's a phsycological issue. They want to consume it much faster than it's economically viable to produce.
I am a semi casual. No idea where you get your fault assumptions. I just don't expect everything to be spoon fed to me like a little newborn cub.Edited by kelly.medleyb14_ESO on November 29, 2014 7:08AM1 -
EchoedSinSoul ShrivenCan you explain what "VR" means in "VR14" in terms of levels?
Is it akin to "prestige" in COD? :S Or ...? I am stilll...yes ... STILL.. patching my game. ;-; lol.Haven't played in 5 years, so ... Kinda lost0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
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But the 14 VR ranks generally take more than twice as long to achieve than lvl 50. Nothing wrong with that from one point of view, but from the other its idiotic since only at VR14 you can compete meaningfully in any of the real endgame.kelly.medleyb14_ESO wrote: »
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Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Nah, it really is pretty damn empty lately, but Mournhold is BUMPING. That said, forced group content is bad and you should feel bad.
Its not only in Craglorn, players seem to forget the rest of the world, its also dead, *** it, its more then dead. (Level based games are a big no no)FFFRRREEEDDDOOOMMM!!!
- Be Anyone.
- Do Anything.
- Go Anywhere.1 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭timborggrenlarsenb16_ESO wrote: »Khivas_Carrick wrote: »Nah, it really is pretty damn empty lately, but Mournhold is BUMPING. That said, forced group content is bad and you should feel bad.
Its not only in Craglorn, players seem to forget the rest of the world, its also dead, *** it, its more then dead. (Level based games are a big no no)
Level based games are fine. All of the currently top tiered MMOs are level based except secret world.
Creating a game with 3 factions, asking you to choose a faction, then making you complete all of the quests for every faction anyways before you can compete at end game is a no no.
Making people feel like completing their faction means something then slamming them with the cold hard reality that they are only 1/3 of the way towards level cap is a no no.
Creating a road block 4 levels before level cap where you can only advance doing group content is a no no.
Removing the only viable alternative to all of the above is a no no.
Edited by Alphashado on November 29, 2014 2:50PM3 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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And Eve Online. Also, in EVERY MMO I've played where there is a level cap I was able to hit that cap without completing maybe half the quest/zone content because there was so much available. To put it another way, I NEVER once had to grind ANYTHING in any other MMO I played to hit level cap, I could simply quest to cap and still have tons of quests left to clean up for achievements later. This is not the case in ESO. Even if you complete 100% of the solo quests (counting Cyro in this category) AND all Craglorn quests you will only reach ~VR10-12, depending on a variety of factors ofc.Alphashado wrote: »Level based games are fine. All of the currently top tiered MMOs are level based except secret world.
That leaves roughly 2-4 VR where you have no choice but grind out to reach cap. Now part of this is the fault of ZoS in increasing the VR cap beyond VR10, which they never should've done. Had they left it at VR10 then I'd wager 98% of players could cap without ever grinding anything and only questing. Also keep in mind we're talking about NOW not back before the XP nerfs when a VR could be spammed in <30 min due to the sheer magnitude of XP given by repeatable bosses like the Thief, as well as Anoms.0 -
Melian✭✭✭✭ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »It died in 12 hours? Cause I was there this morning and it was busy as crap. Is it NA or EU server? Cause I was on NA
This.0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's dead from lack of grinding, not actual "playing". (Yes, I realize that grinding is some form of playing, but we all know what I mean).
Once the champion system is out and the game is more about playing the game and just continually getting xp to build slowly, we may see people care more about playing content and less about grinding.-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC1 -
Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭There are quite a few broken quests right now in Craglorn. Critical Mass is one of them.0 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Alphashado wrote: »And for all of the purest ES folks out there that want to say good riddance to grinding bosses in Craglorn, I say to you: Be careful what you wish for.
A MMO that needs grinders to have a parvence of being alive, is a MMO best left to die.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Alphashado wrote: »And for all of the purest ES folks out there that want to say good riddance to grinding bosses in Craglorn, I say to you: Be careful what you wish for.
A MMO that needs grinders to have a parvence of being alive, is a MMO best left to die.
In most cases I would agree with you. But ESO is different. There is a ton of potential here.
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randolphbenoit✭✭✭✭All zones had solo option vs PvP, trials and groups then that changethe NeXus Guild (NA-DC-Crafters) contact @randolphbenoit
Saltrice - (Salt tolerant rice) Saltrice, pronounced just like it looks is, in fact, a kind of rice that can grow in paddies of either fresh or brackish water.0 -
OtarTheMad✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭While grinding was insanely boring to me, I did it once on my main, I don't miss it much at all. VR content does need to be more exciting though, I am trying to level my pure tank DK to VR 14 to help in PvP groups and dungeons but I am clawing my eyes out sometimes questing. I love that I get a skill point and attribute point for leveling now... pretty sweet... but I need an incentive to do this content other than that.
I have an idea and basically it's this ZOS Pay Attention!!! (If someone came up with something similar then my bad... I didn't read every post and thread)
-Players completes just Cadwells Silver- 1,000 gold
-Player completes Cadwells Silver and Dungeons (solo)- 5,000 gold
-Cadwells Silver, Dungeons (solo) and all quests- 10,000 gold
-Cadwells Gold- 5,000 gold
-Cadwells Gold and solo Dungeons- 10,000 gold
- Cadwells Gold, solo Dungeons and all quests- 15,000 Gold (and a better amulet or prize at the end please!)
Maybe the gold is too high but I think it would work out just fine. With that being said I don't see how players are quitting, taking a break I can understand but not quitting. There is just too much future content of this game coming down the road that excites me... Spell Crafting, Justice System, new Armors and weapons, Imperial City, Wrothgar. Also stuff not mentioned yet like DB, TG and the rest of Tamriel.
EDIT- Also to ZOS... come out with a Free To Play option for people who want to try the game out... once they get to level 20 they have to buy the game and start a sub.
Edited by OtarTheMad on November 29, 2014 11:27PM0 -
DeLindsay✭✭✭✭✭
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You can keep the gold I just want to not HAVE to grind to level cap. There should be so many quests in the game that a player can hit cap without having every zone 100% complete and then have to go back and finish up for completion/achievements. This is the way most MMO's do it. Also, at roughly 8% of a VR per full Vet Dungeon clear is stupid. It should be no less than 20-25% of a VR. Considering that a Vet Dungeon takes between ~15 min (good group) to nearly an hour (meh pug group) it'd still take 1-5 hours per VR but at least it wouldn't be as boring. That would give us an alternative to killing the same 15 mobs over and over and over until we want to stab ourselves to see color.OtarTheMad wrote: »-Players completes just Cadwells Silver- 1,000 gold
-Player completes Cadwells Silver and Dungeons (solo)- 5,000 gold
-Cadwells Silver, Dungeons (solo) and all quests- 10,000 gold
-Cadwells Gold- 5,000 gold
-Cadwells Gold and solo Dungeons- 10,000 gold
- Cadwells Gold, solo Dungeons and all quests- 15,000 Gold (and a better amulet or prize at the end please!)0 -
DeathDealer19✭✭✭✭zone is not dead. gone are the vr1 noobs. Im glad to not see "LFG thief grind" "LFG upper crag grind" and "LFG scorpion grind" people actually have to play to level now. and I couldn't be happier@DeathDealer19
GM of We Wipe On Trash
NA Server AD Faction
VR14 High Elf Templar
VR14 High Elf Dragonknight
VR14 High Elf Sorcerer
VR14 Imperial Dragonknight
VR9 Bosmer Nightblade0 -
Alphashado✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DeathDealer19 wrote: »zone is not dead. gone are the vr1 noobs. Im glad to not see "LFG thief grind" "LFG upper crag grind" and "LFG scorpion grind" people actually have to play to level now. and I couldn't be happier
Glad that you are happy with a depleting game population. Fortunately for the rest of us, ZOS understands their game is rapidly dying and they are investing time and research/development to make appropriate changes. If they retained the same attitude you have, then this game would be dead and F2P in the very near future.
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
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You can keep the gold I just want to not HAVE to grind to level cap. There should be so many quests in the game that a player can hit cap without having every zone 100% complete and then have to go back and finish up for completion/achievements. This is the way most MMO's do it. Also, at roughly 8% of a VR per full Vet Dungeon clear is stupid. It should be no less than 20-25% of a VR. Considering that a Vet Dungeon takes between ~15 min (good group) to nearly an hour (meh pug group) it'd still take 1-5 hours per VR but at least it wouldn't be as boring. That would give us an alternative to killing the same 15 mobs over and over and over until we want to stab ourselves to see color.OtarTheMad wrote: »-Players completes just Cadwells Silver- 1,000 gold
-Player completes Cadwells Silver and Dungeons (solo)- 5,000 gold
-Cadwells Silver, Dungeons (solo) and all quests- 10,000 gold
-Cadwells Gold- 5,000 gold
-Cadwells Gold and solo Dungeons- 10,000 gold
- Cadwells Gold, solo Dungeons and all quests- 15,000 Gold (and a better amulet or prize at the end please!)
Why do you feel that you should be able to go up a Vet level in "1-5 hours"?
Craglorn was actually fairly busy last night (NA EP) when I was running around with a friend collecting treasure map chests.
Zone chat had lots of "lf1m (quest name)" or people looking for quest groups. Also ran into players who were happily killing stuff while collecting mats. I also had guild mates doing some of the daily quests.The Moot Councillor0 -
chipputer✭✭✭There are quite a few broken quests right now in Craglorn. Critical Mass is one of them.
It's not broken, it just requires 4 people to actually advance beyond the phase there you need 3 separate party members to hold the infusions.
I was never told this, it was never hinted to me, and I only figured it out because a guildmate told me so.0
