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Are gamepads/macros considered bad form?
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Syntse✭✭✭✭✭One buys gaming mouse with extra buttons:
Does it have 3rd party software? - Yes! (to map buttons)
Does it give you advantage against other players? - Yes! (more buttons, easy access)
Are they authorized by ZeniMax to use? - who knows!
Fuzz is about software you install with your hardware not built in. And how on earth you get advantage by using extra keys on mouse?
Does it make commands faster? Or does it allows to do extra actions by pressing 1 button? If i have weapon swap on mouse button 4, how does it give me advantage agains player who have default settings or have placed swap button on other key?
Most of the gaming hardware come with software so it's not like you need to get separate software to do macros, the software with the hardware will be enough. I have Logitech G105 and Razer Naga, both came with software to map keys and even do simple macros.
There's only so many keys near WASD and basic mouse has 2-3 buttons where gaming mouse has like 9. It is easier to press mouse button to swap weapons or do something else than press button way other side of the keyboard. And gamers know that the less you need to move your fingers from WASD the better.Usually games who allow macros promote some company, like Razor, or have built in macro system. But in ZOS there aren't build in macro and they haven't announced that any of companies who make gaming gadgets are they partners.
They are allowing addon
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info736-WykkydsMacros.html
with outfitter you can easily change your gear and skills with single button which would normally take considerable effort through ui.I have mouse and I can install macro program for it, and yes I tested it! So anyone who tells that those programs don't give you advantage against other players are dirty liars.
They can give advantage when you script the fight into macro. But simple basic things only give like tenths of second "advantage". Eg swap weapon, use skill, swap back or use keymap from greymindsquickslotbar, use quickslot.
Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Great, but what does Not Authorized mean as far as ZOS are concerned?It's sad that a ZOS representative doesn't dare to say "Macros are illegal", instead, he points you to a complex text that can be interpreted in many ways an which allows ZOS to more or less define as they wish what is and isn't allowed.
If you look at the text:
<= where is the list of what is and isn't authorized?You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax
...
The subsequent text of that section actually lists what is considered "not authorized":...Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, “mirroring”) the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.
As far as the list of what is "not authorized" by ZeniMax goes, running a macro without human input is not authorized. AFK botting basically.
No mention is made of using macros to ease the pressing of key combinations while a player is actively at keyboard. A macro for multiple key presses does not really allow a player to do anything he or she could not do otherwise (unless due to debilitating illness, disability, or other such factors leading to limitations in the first place); the macro simply makes the process more efficient and simultaneously prone to interferences.
They use the term "are examples" so that they can stretch the definition to fit whatever they want on a case-by-case basis though (personally know this due to being involved in enforcing ToS for another gaming company)."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Most of the gaming hardware come with software so it's not like you need to get separate software to do macros, the software with the hardware will be enough. I have Logitech G105 and Razer Naga, both came with software to map keys and even do simple macros.
There's only so many keys near WASD and basic mouse has 2-3 buttons where gaming mouse has like 9. It is easier to press mouse button to swap weapons or do something else than press button way other side of the keyboard. And gamers know that the less you need to move your fingers from WASD the better.
If software comes with hardware doesn't mean it's allowed in all games. ToS in ESO don't allow them. Of course macro user will read between lines and say that their software aren't mentioned as illegal.
You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities...
[/quote]They are allowing addon
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info736-WykkydsMacros.html
with outfitter you can easily change your gear and skills with single button which would normally take considerable effort through ui.
Wykkyds Macro is an addon, you don't need specific hardware to use it. And it's not combat addon it's for off combat . It doesn't give advantage against other players. You can't do multiple attacks with it by pressing 1 button, you only can change gear and skills when you aren't fighting.
And I think it's in ZOS infamous "grey area."They can give advantage when you script the fight into macro. But simple basic things only give like tenths of second "advantage". Eg swap weapon, use skill, swap back or use keymap from greymindsquickslotbar, use quickslot.
In PvP tenth of second is enough to get advantage. And it's rules out human error, when you press macro button there are 0% chance to miss click spell.
Why are you placing "=" between hardware software and addons? In Eso addons are allowed but 3rd party software isn't.Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!0 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭
Most of the gaming hardware come with software so it's not like you need to get separate software to do macros, the software with the hardware will be enough. I have Logitech G105 and Razer Naga, both came with software to map keys and even do simple macros.
There's only so many keys near WASD and basic mouse has 2-3 buttons where gaming mouse has like 9. It is easier to press mouse button to swap weapons or do something else than press button way other side of the keyboard. And gamers know that the less you need to move your fingers from WASD the better.
If software comes with hardware doesn't mean it's allowed in all games. ToS in ESO don't allow them. Of course macro user will read between lines and say that their software aren't mentioned as illegal.
You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities...
So now you saying gaming mouse (hardware) is not allowed as it gives advantage and has possibility to make macros behind the keys against people that do not have gaming mouses.They are allowing addon
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info736-WykkydsMacros.html
with outfitter you can easily change your gear and skills with single button which would normally take considerable effort through ui.
Wykkyds Macro is an addon, you don't need specific hardware to use it. And it's not combat addon it's for off combat . It doesn't give advantage against other players. You can't do multiple attacks with it by pressing 1 button, you only can change gear and skills when you aren't fighting.
And I think it's in ZOS infamous "grey area."
Well if you say that someone can change their full bar of skills during combat and back so basically having 10 or 15 or 20 skills in their action bar and eg start fight with maxing critical for snipe then in under second change gear to better suited for close combat is not advantage then cool. I have not used those so if it really limits that it cannot be done during combat then ok.They can give advantage when you script the fight into macro. But simple basic things only give like tenths of second "advantage". Eg swap weapon, use skill, swap back or use keymap from greymindsquickslotbar, use quickslot.
In PvP tenth of second is enough to get advantage. And it's rules out human error, when you press macro button there are 0% chance to miss click spell.
Why are you placing "=" between hardware software and addons? In Eso addons are allowed but 3rd party software isn't.
PvP tenth of second might mean something in game like CoD but not in this laggy game. Also as you have also stated that those even simple macros are unreliable so most likely fails more often than human error occurs.
You know your mouse, keyboard driver is 3rd party, directx is 3rd party, gfx card drivers are 3rd party. So is line drawn that what comes with normal hardware like keyboard and mouse is allowed 3rd party and software that is from hacking sites etc is not allowed 3rd party? What is 3rd party application in this context?
Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Great, but what does Not Authorized mean as far as ZOS are concerned?It's sad that a ZOS representative doesn't dare to say "Macros are illegal", instead, he points you to a complex text that can be interpreted in many ways an which allows ZOS to more or less define as they wish what is and isn't allowed.
If you look at the text:
<= where is the list of what is and isn't authorized?You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax
...
The subsequent text of that section actually lists what is considered "not authorized":...Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, “mirroring”) the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.
As far as the list of what is "not authorized" by ZeniMax goes, running a macro without human input is not authorized. AFK botting basically.
No mention is made of using macros to ease the pressing of key combinations while a player is actively at keyboard. A macro for multiple key presses does not really allow a player to do anything he or she could not do otherwise (unless due to debilitating illness, disability, or other such factors leading to limitations in the first place); the macro simply makes the process more efficient and simultaneously prone to interferences.
They use the term "are examples" so that they can stretch the definition to fit whatever they want on a case-by-case basis though (personally know this due to being involved in enforcing ToS for another gaming company).
So does that mean manually started macros are ok but auto macros (bots) are not ?
As stated above.. the gear swapping addon is effectively a macro ?
No one would ever consider gear swapping without it and gear swapping allows you to react to a different environment with the most suitable gear instantly.
Invest in health I can go from light armour magic wielder to medium armour stealth to heavy armour tank. Everyone else is stuck with what they are wearing.Edited by Rune_Relic on November 27, 2014 8:46PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Great, but what does Not Authorized mean as far as ZOS are concerned?It's sad that a ZOS representative doesn't dare to say "Macros are illegal", instead, he points you to a complex text that can be interpreted in many ways an which allows ZOS to more or less define as they wish what is and isn't allowed.
If you look at the text:
<= where is the list of what is and isn't authorized?You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax
...
The subsequent text of that section actually lists what is considered "not authorized":...Third party tools, the use of ‘bots’, “speed hacks”, “deep-link”, “page-scrape”, “robot”, “spider”, algorithm or other programs that copy or monitor any part of the Services (including, but not limited to, the Game(s) and/or forums), software that transmits, manipulates, or distributes (including, but are limited to, “mirroring”) the data stream or any aspect of the Services to another computer, server websites or other publication or distribution media, or software that permits You to use Services without human input are examples of methods not authorized by ZeniMax.
As far as the list of what is "not authorized" by ZeniMax goes, running a macro without human input is not authorized. AFK botting basically.
No mention is made of using macros to ease the pressing of key combinations while a player is actively at keyboard. A macro for multiple key presses does not really allow a player to do anything he or she could not do otherwise (unless due to debilitating illness, disability, or other such factors leading to limitations in the first place); the macro simply makes the process more efficient and simultaneously prone to interferences.
They use the term "are examples" so that they can stretch the definition to fit whatever they want on a case-by-case basis though (personally know this due to being involved in enforcing ToS for another gaming company).
So does that mean manually started macros are ok but auto macros (bots) are not ?
As stated above.. the gear swapping addon is effectively a macro ?
No one would ever consider gear swapping without it and gear swapping allows you to react to a different environment with the most suitable gear instantly.
Invest in health I can go from light armour magic wielder to medium armour stealth to heavy armour tank. Everyone else is stuck with what they are wearing.
A gear swapping macro basically just makes convenient that which would otherwise be nuisance. Such a macro does not make it possible to swap gear during combat, so mechanically it does not really do anything other players cannot do.
A player without a gear swapping macro is not really "stuck" with the gear they are in, it is just cumbersome to make the change and often not worth the effort.
Would consider a gear swapping macro relatively innocuous.
The convenience may provide an "edge" by being able to utilize multiple builds on the fly, but it does not really perform any tasks that could not be performed otherwise.
That is just my view though, as stated in my previous post, ZOS left a legal back-door in the ToS if they ever feel the need to crack down on anything for any reason."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Lettigall✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Most of the gaming hardware come with software so it's not like you need to get separate software to do macros, the software with the hardware will be enough. I have Logitech G105 and Razer Naga, both came with software to map keys and even do simple macros.
There's only so many keys near WASD and basic mouse has 2-3 buttons where gaming mouse has like 9. It is easier to press mouse button to swap weapons or do something else than press button way other side of the keyboard. And gamers know that the less you need to move your fingers from WASD the better.
If software comes with hardware doesn't mean it's allowed in all games. ToS in ESO don't allow them. Of course macro user will read between lines and say that their software aren't mentioned as illegal.
You agree not to use any hardware or software or any other method of support that is not authorized by ZeniMax or that may in any way influence or advantage Your playing abilities...
So now you saying gaming mouse (hardware) is not allowed as it gives advantage and has possibility to make macros behind the keys against people that do not have gaming mouses.They are allowing addon
http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info736-WykkydsMacros.html
with outfitter you can easily change your gear and skills with single button which would normally take considerable effort through ui.
Wykkyds Macro is an addon, you don't need specific hardware to use it. And it's not combat addon it's for off combat . It doesn't give advantage against other players. You can't do multiple attacks with it by pressing 1 button, you only can change gear and skills when you aren't fighting.
And I think it's in ZOS infamous "grey area."
Well if you say that someone can change their full bar of skills during combat and back so basically having 10 or 15 or 20 skills in their action bar and eg start fight with maxing critical for snipe then in under second change gear to better suited for close combat is not advantage then cool. I have not used those so if it really limits that it cannot be done during combat then ok.They can give advantage when you script the fight into macro. But simple basic things only give like tenths of second "advantage". Eg swap weapon, use skill, swap back or use keymap from greymindsquickslotbar, use quickslot.
In PvP tenth of second is enough to get advantage. And it's rules out human error, when you press macro button there are 0% chance to miss click spell.
Why are you placing "=" between hardware software and addons? In Eso addons are allowed but 3rd party software isn't.
PvP tenth of second might mean something in game like CoD but not in this laggy game. Also as you have also stated that those even simple macros are unreliable so most likely fails more often than human error occurs.
You know your mouse, keyboard driver is 3rd party, directx is 3rd party, gfx card drivers are 3rd party. So is line drawn that what comes with normal hardware like keyboard and mouse is allowed 3rd party and software that is from hacking sites etc is not allowed 3rd party? What is 3rd party application in this context?
Try to change gear or skills while in combat
I never seen anyone suddenly changing their gear in middle of fight but I have seen casting multiple spells in 1sec. No addon can do that!
You know your mouse, keyboard driver is 3rd party, directx is 3rd party, gfx card drivers are 3rd party. So is line drawn that what comes with normal hardware like keyboard and mouse is allowed 3rd party and software that is from hacking sites etc is not allowed 3rd party? What is 3rd party application in this context?
All those things you mentioned are in system requirements... Pls don't make stupid arguments.
Gaming keyboard and mouse software aren't necessary to run game, it's only gives advantage to user, advantage which is against ToS.
Some men just want to watch the world burn... I just want a cold beer!0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Try to change gear or skills while in combat I never seen anyone suddenly changing their gear in middle of fight but I have seen casting multiple spells in 1sec. No addon can do that!
In PvP battles, if your are grouped, it is likely that you will be engaged in combat for quite some time unless you run far from the battle. If you are not grouped and the player you attacked is killed, you are out of combat almost instantly (assuming nobody else hits you). Wykkyd's Outfitter is a tremendous advantage to players that aren't grouped, or in very coordinated groups.
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zaria✭✭✭✭✭
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This is also in ESO,however the time delay is less than the animation.TequilaFire wrote: »The TOS needs to define the difference between a hardware macro and third party software macros better.
My keyboards can memorize keystrokes without external software.
Most good game software has caps on fire rates and the miniumum time allowed between keypress, etc.
or can you do 10 cast/ second or better with animation canceling?
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
This is also in ESO,however the time delay is less than the animation.TequilaFire wrote: »The TOS needs to define the difference between a hardware macro and third party software macros better.
My keyboards can memorize keystrokes without external software.
Most good game software has caps on fire rates and the miniumum time allowed between keypress, etc.
or can you do 10 cast/ second or better with animation canceling?
There is a thread somewhere in these forums that says if you double tap light attack it overcomes the delay.0 -
I feel what ZoS need to do is two things:
1. Increase the benefit of a heavy attack. Atm there's no reason to use heavy attacks, maybe they should add some armor pen that you need to keep up every 5-10 seconds.
2. Give light attacks a cooldown but make light attacks buff the damage of the next spell or some other benefit. This will make macros pointless but you'll still need to weave basic attacks in order to maximize dps.
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AoEnwyr✭✭✭✭
[snip]
One buys gaming mouse with extra buttons:
Does it have 3rd party software? - Yes! (to map buttons)
Does it give you advantage against other players? - Yes! (more buttons, easy access)
Are they authorized by ZeniMax to use? - who knows!
Not really, all it does is reposition some of the key presses from the keyboard to the side of the mouse. It still requires human input, judgement and reflexes. Personally I'd find it a bit annoying, being all thumbs I'd likely mash those little buttons. My Razer Mamba suits me fine.
The hardware itself doesn't automate the process. Even the accompanying software doesn't unless you specifically program it to do so, which is the bit that is against the TOS. Razer Synapse software can let you program marcos to compatilbe hardware (such as the Black Widow) but unless you actually use it for this purpose the software provides no advantage in an MMO.
One could agrue that any given piece of hardware offers an advantage over another based on design, key layout etc but at the end the best players will always be those who are actually good at playing the game irrespective of which brand of mouse/keyboard they are using.0 -
Mud_Puppy✭✭✭The only kind of macros that bother me are AFK farming bots or any AFK macro of the sort.
Those deserve bans, period. No warnings and no second chances.
Personally I don't use any form of macro. From a combat perspective, I don't care. In a fight the only thing more dangerous than human error is using a macro string at the wrong time./kill0 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭Try to change gear or skills while in combat I never seen anyone suddenly changing their gear in middle of fight but I have seen casting multiple spells in 1sec. No addon can do that!
All those things you mentioned are in system requirements... Pls don't make stupid arguments.
Gaming keyboard and mouse software aren't necessary to run game, it's only gives advantage to user, advantage which is against ToS.
I'll test tonight if I'm able to switch skill during combat manually. I have a feeling that is possible and that I've done that in some dungeon. But again might remember wrong.
Well if your argument is as general as Zos ToS like '3rd party software' then I can argument that unless Zos includes those drivers etc that are required for the game and hardware to work they are relying 3rd party also. Now where's the list of approved or disapproved 3rd party software? And we are talking about software that comes with your hardware not something you buy separately to gain advantage over others.
And since it's always about advantage, people with gaming gear have advantage over people who don't. In these cases guys who don't are just dumb. Now this gaming gear comes with software to enable macro, now this is not ok because this would mean everyone would need to start using macros too who like to be competitive.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What about people with disabilities such as only have the use of one hand, arthritis in hands etc., people need to be able to map keys differently and to a pad or even voice controls if necessary. (Just in case any of you are not aware of this, when people become disabled, they do not lose interest in their previous hobbies and just wait for death, if they are interested in gaming they want to carry on gaming, just like you would).
There is a huge difference between that and setting up a macro to have a character do stuff in game automatically, I am sure (or at least I hope) Zenimax can tell the difference between someone playing normally with different controls and a gold farmer.Edited by Epona222 on November 28, 2014 9:23AMGM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.0 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭Since there is no monitoring softwares in use like PunkBuster. Only way for them to determine if someone is using illegal means is to monitor possible offender and even this would be most likely based on reports.
Even then it would be pretty hard to say if someone had macroed select potion, drink potion to one button or not.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
But who rate do you come up with? double tapping light attack still take time.Wreuntzylla wrote: »
This is also in ESO,however the time delay is less than the animation.TequilaFire wrote: »The TOS needs to define the difference between a hardware macro and third party software macros better.
My keyboards can memorize keystrokes without external software.
Most good game software has caps on fire rates and the miniumum time allowed between keypress, etc.
or can you do 10 cast/ second or better with animation canceling?
There is a thread somewhere in these forums that says if you double tap light attack it overcomes the delay.
Increasing casting time with 30% still points to an fire rate cap, 5 times faster and its none.
Not saying its not loopholes in the system
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What about people with disabilities such as only have the use of one hand, arthritis in hands etc., people need to be able to map keys differently and to a pad or even voice controls if necessary. (Just in case any of you are not aware of this, when people become disabled, they do not lose interest in their previous hobbies and just wait for death, if they are interested in gaming they want to carry on gaming, just like you would).
There is a huge difference between that and setting up a macro to have a character do stuff in game automatically, I am sure (or at least I hope) Zenimax can tell the difference between someone playing normally with different controls and a gold farmer.
Mapping keys is fine, you can do that through the user interface, so that's not an issue. People have no problem with people using special mouses or keyboards or the like, it's just macros that get peoples back's up.
Disabilities are generally accepted as a reason for all sorts of work rounds, I don't mean that as condescending by the way (I tried to rephrase but that made it worse), it's just a fact of life and people accept it (as they should).People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule1 -
Epona222✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »What about people with disabilities such as only have the use of one hand, arthritis in hands etc., people need to be able to map keys differently and to a pad or even voice controls if necessary. (Just in case any of you are not aware of this, when people become disabled, they do not lose interest in their previous hobbies and just wait for death, if they are interested in gaming they want to carry on gaming, just like you would).
There is a huge difference between that and setting up a macro to have a character do stuff in game automatically, I am sure (or at least I hope) Zenimax can tell the difference between someone playing normally with different controls and a gold farmer.
Mapping keys is fine, you can do that through the user interface, so that's not an issue. People have no problem with people using special mouses or keyboards or the like, it's just macros that get peoples back's up.
Disabilities are generally accepted as a reason for all sorts of work rounds, I don't mean that as condescending by the way (I tried to rephrase but that made it worse), it's just a fact of life and people accept it (as they should).
Not at all condescending, no need to rephrase it at all GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC
Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.0 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »Mapping keys is fine, you can do that through the user interface, so that's not an issue. People have no problem with people using special mouses or keyboards or the like, it's just macros that get peoples back's up.
Since this functionality now comes with gaming gear it's not long until it is as acceptable norm as the gaming gear in general. Before if you wanted to do something like macroing you had to get separate program for that.
Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
AlexDougherty✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »Mapping keys is fine, you can do that through the user interface, so that's not an issue. People have no problem with people using special mouses or keyboards or the like, it's just macros that get peoples back's up.
Since this functionality now comes with gaming gear it's not long until it is as acceptable norm as the gaming gear in general. Before if you wanted to do something like macroing you had to get separate program for that.
I know, I know, I'm a bit judgemental about macros, it just seems so lazy, but I do know it's all heading that way.People believe what they either want to be true or what they are afraid is true!
Wizard's first rule
Passion rules reason
Wizard's third rule
Mind what people Do, not what they say, for actions betray a lie.
Wizard's fifth rule
Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self
Wizard's tenth rule0 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭AlexDougherty wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »Mapping keys is fine, you can do that through the user interface, so that's not an issue. People have no problem with people using special mouses or keyboards or the like, it's just macros that get peoples back's up.
Since this functionality now comes with gaming gear it's not long until it is as acceptable norm as the gaming gear in general. Before if you wanted to do something like macroing you had to get separate program for that.
I know, I know, I'm a bit judgemental about macros, it just seems so lazy, but I do know it's all heading that way.
I have been too until eso quick slot wheel. Now it seems almost must to have select+use macro key to make it work like it should.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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Why is that a must? It's intended to be one quickslot with 8 possible things in it, not 8 different quick slots, which is what a macro like this turns it into.AlexDougherty wrote: »AlexDougherty wrote: »Mapping keys is fine, you can do that through the user interface, so that's not an issue. People have no problem with people using special mouses or keyboards or the like, it's just macros that get peoples back's up.
Since this functionality now comes with gaming gear it's not long until it is as acceptable norm as the gaming gear in general. Before if you wanted to do something like macroing you had to get separate program for that.
I know, I know, I'm a bit judgemental about macros, it just seems so lazy, but I do know it's all heading that way.
I have been too until eso quick slot wheel. Now it seems almost must to have select+use macro key to make it work like it should.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp1 -
Muizer✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gaming keyboard and mouse software aren't necessary to run game, it's only gives advantage to user, advantage which is against ToS.
Let's bury this line of argument right away please. It is quite common in gaming to use non-standard hardware. Only a moron would, for instance, call people who use a joystick, rudder pedals or head-tracking gear in flight sims a cheater because strictly speaking only a mouse and keyboard are required.
Hardware nor software are the issue as long as it requires human action to respond to in-game events. The only thing open to debate is whether it is permitted to set off a pre-set sequence of commands with the press of one button.
Personally I don't think ZoS would categorically prohibit this. It will remain a grey area. That requires some judgement and common sense I'm afraid. You have to ask yourself whether what you're doing is just making easier what you're evidently are expected to be able to do, or whether you're using automation to do things that you're clearly not intended to do so fast/accurate/consistently etc..
Please stop making requests for game features. ZOS have enough bad ideas as it is!2 -
Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The only Macro I use for my keyboard is one that allows me to select and use a potion using a single keystroke in combination with Greyminds Quickslot bar. The main reason I use it is because of ZOS's terrible interface they designed for selecting potions/consumables in the first place. I don't play PVP so it gives me no advantage over other players and most of the time I'm just using the Q key to give me the triple buff health pots.3 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭Why is that a must? It's intended to be one quickslot with 8 possible things in it, not 8 different quick slots, which is what a macro like this turns it into.
For you maybe it is innovative and great. And you think if someone can quickly use their choice of potion is unfair advantage.
Greymind Quick Slot Bar 107,907 Downloads
It should have been like minimum of 3 hotkeys to put health, mana, stam pot or what ever person likes. I know there are 3 pots just don't like to use those all the time. Everyone knows that wheel thing is because of console.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
Syntselle Dominion Dark Elf Dragonknight Magica DPS [50]
Syntseus Dominion Imperial Templar Healer [50]
Syntsetar Dominion High Elf Sorcerer Magica DPS [50]
Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
Syntseyn Ebonheart Brenton Nightblade Magica DPS [50]0 -
Enodoc✭✭✭✭✭
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Like I said somewhere else, this doesn't bother me much, particularly considering the potion cool-down. but where does it go from here? Next you get someone macroing weapon swap with 1-5, then they have essentially 10 skills on one bar, instead of two separate bars with 5 skills each, and that could be an unfair advantage.Why is that a must? It's intended to be one quickslot with 8 possible things in it, not 8 different quick slots, which is what a macro like this turns it into.
For you maybe it is innovative and great. And you think if someone can quickly use their choice of potion is unfair advantage.
Greymind Quick Slot Bar 107,907 Downloads
It should have been like minimum of 3 hotkeys to put health, mana, stam pot or what ever person likes. I know there are 3 pots just don't like to use those all the time. Everyone knows that wheel thing is because of console.UESP: The Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages - A collaborative source for all knowledge on the Elder Scrolls series since 1995
Join us on Discord - discord.gg/uesp0 -
PF1901✭✭✭
Kind of what you'll get for an answer for this type of question from any company these days.
Example of terrible customer support...exhibit A.....
Not that I like it much, but kind of understandable in this day and age..."Well, you didn't specifically state in your answer I'm not allowed to put my pet in the microwave".
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