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Skills that need LOVE in PvP aka USELESS SKILLS

SRIBES
SRIBES
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Every class has at least one ability that is completely or to some extent useless in PvP..

DK - Inferno - It drains magika per second, should become instant 500 magika cast and last maybe 10 seconds.

Sorc - I think sorc has the worst out of all classes for useless abilities in PvP but I think critical surge takes the cake even though it can be so good if even one player is not using impen in a 1vX, but most players do use it. I think impen needs to be nerfed so it reduces damage of critical hits by maybe 5% per each piece of impen max and buff other traits to make them more appealing. Critical surge and nerf to impen would help sorcs in so many ways. Would like to see sorcs have a DoT, melee attack and un nerf bolt escape or give them better AoEs.

NB - Path of shadows, I think this skill should act more like wall of elements, stack, and deal more damage BUT drain health from each person in it 50% of damage you do is gained back as health. Would help NBs a lot.

Templar - Backlash. It is just kind of all around bad, it would prove way more useful if the % was reduced and became an AoE damage increase of 20% but can still be purged.

Do you agree with me? What other skills do you find useless?
  • tplink3r1
    tplink3r1
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    Templar - Backlash/Blinding flashes/rune focus/eclipse.
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • derpsticks
    derpsticks
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    The thing most people don't realize is simply casting a dawns wrath ability gives the templar 500 spell resistance. While this isn't much I think its worth mentioning.
  • Thechemicals
    Thechemicals
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    Wow, just wow. Im going to leave this one alone.
    Vr14 Templar since release- dual resto
    Vr14 Dk bow/2h

    Brayan Blackthunder
    Goddick
    Daggerfall Covenant

  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Every class has at least one ability that is completely or to some extent useless in PvP..

    DK - Inferno - It drains magika per second, should become instant 500 magika cast and last maybe 10 seconds.

    I don't even have a skill point in it because the recovery removal is crippling. You can't even reduce the channel cost with cost reduction. They should change the animation of this skill to one showing the bottom of your magicka bar rupturing and all of the magicka splashing and pouring out of the rupture followed by a nice "wamp wamp" sound.

    Maybe it should be a toggle like mage light. -10% max magicka while on. Of course that would make it cost 2 skill slots so maybe not.
    Edited by Armitas on November 26, 2014 8:52PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • tplink3r1
    tplink3r1
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    derpsticks wrote: »
    The thing most people don't realize is simply casting a dawns wrath ability gives the templar 500 spell resistance. While this isn't much I think its worth mentioning.
    thats not how it works...
    http://www.esohead.com/skills/31743-illuminate
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • SRIBES
    SRIBES
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    Armitas wrote: »
    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Every class has at least one ability that is completely or to some extent useless in PvP..

    DK - Inferno - It drains magika per second, should become instant 500 magika cast and last maybe 10 seconds.

    I don't even have a skill point in it because the recovery removal is crippling. You can't even reduce the channel cost with cost reduction. They should change the animation of this skill to one showing the bottom of your magicka bar rupturing and all of the magicka splashing and pouring out of the rupture followed by a nice "wamp wamp" sound.

    Maybe it should be a toggle like mage light. -10% max magicka while on. Of course that would make it cost 2 skill slots so maybe not.
    I would love that! But it could be OP, a constant AoE DOT that gives you about 5% magika back whenever someone dies around you and only reduces your max magika by 10%
    It also builds ultimate.
    Edited by SRIBES on November 26, 2014 9:09PM
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    derpsticks wrote: »
    The thing most people don't realize is simply casting a dawns wrath ability gives the templar 500 spell resistance. While this isn't much I think its worth mentioning.

    You are referring to the Illuminate Passive buff. You are wrong, its been broken for a while. It gives you 0 spell resistance.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • guybrushtb16_ESO
    guybrushtb16_ESO
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    Not everything has to revolve around pvp. The demands of pvp and pve will always be different, if a skill is good in pve I don't mind it being useless in pvp. Crit surge for example is great in pve, albeit situational, and I'd hate to have that pve functionality broken due to pvp. Spellcrafting probably is going to have some kind of non-class based heal spell, so that niche may already be covered by it in the future.

    Then of course, there are those skills that nobody ever uses (or rather should use), like inferno, rune prison or blur and those probably should be changed to be useful at all.
  • SRIBES
    SRIBES
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    Not everything has to revolve around pvp. The demands of pvp and pve will always be different, if a skill is good in pve I don't mind it being useless in pvp. Crit surge for example is great in pve, albeit situational, and I'd hate to have that pve functionality broken due to pvp. Spellcrafting probably is going to have some kind of non-class based heal spell, so that niche may already be covered by it in the future.

    Then of course, there are those skills that nobody ever uses (or rather should use), like inferno, rune prison or blur and those probably should be changed to be useful at all.

    To make critical surge usful in PvP it doesn't effect PvE at all, tbh almost none of the the skills I mention effect them. To fix crit surge in PvP they need to nerf impen or make other traits more useful.
  • Cody
    Cody
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    NB skill: Assassination Skill line: Blur.

    i cannot for the life of me find a reason to use this skill. Does it at least stack with evasion from the MA skill tree? please tell me it does.

    this skill grants a 15% chance to dodge enemy attacks for a limited amount of time. 15%.... meaning 3/20 hits will be dodged.

    how the heck is this supposed to be useful?? why use that, when i can simply go DW and use sparks?? or simply roll a templar/DK and use one of their dodge skills, that give at least twice the dodge chance? i just dont see a reason why anyone would use Blur.

    i think it needs to just be scraped and replaced with a damage shield and/or some kind of quick instant self heal. there are quite a few skills in this game i dont care for... but Blur is the top one for me
    Edited by Cody on November 27, 2014 6:51AM
  • Chesimac
    Chesimac
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    Cody wrote: »
    NB skill: Assassination Skill line: Blur.

    i cannot for the life of me find a reason to use this skill. Does it at least stack with evasion from the MA skill tree? please tell me it does.

    this skill grants a 15% chance to dodge enemy attacks for a limited amount of time. 15%.... meaning 3/20 hits will be dodged.

    how the heck is this supposed to be useful?? why use that, when i can simply go DW and use sparks?? or simply roll a templar/DK and use one of their dodge skills, that give at least twice the dodge chance? i just dont see a reason why anyone would use Blur.

    i think it needs to just be scraped and replaced with a damage shield and/or some kind of quick instant self heal. there are quite a few skills in this game i dont care for... but Blur is the top one for me

    It stacks with with evasion, often used in duels. I was also killed by a really good nightblade who was using it, so you never know
  • Chesimac
    Chesimac
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    Personally I am not at all a fan of either agony morph though
    Edited by Chesimac on November 28, 2014 11:34AM
  • guybrushtb16_ESO
    guybrushtb16_ESO
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    AsweetRoll wrote: »
    Not everything has to revolve around pvp. The demands of pvp and pve will always be different, if a skill is good in pve I don't mind it being useless in pvp. Crit surge for example is great in pve, albeit situational, and I'd hate to have that pve functionality broken due to pvp. Spellcrafting probably is going to have some kind of non-class based heal spell, so that niche may already be covered by it in the future.

    Then of course, there are those skills that nobody ever uses (or rather should use), like inferno, rune prison or blur and those probably should be changed to be useful at all.

    To make critical surge usful in PvP it doesn't effect PvE at all, tbh almost none of the the skills I mention effect them. To fix crit surge in PvP they need to nerf impen or make other traits more useful.

    I don't think impen should be changed for the sole reason of accomodating crit surge, although I too would like to see impen being changed to a damage reduction instead. Actually, I'd prefer it to be removed completely in one way or another; having a defacto required pvp stat like this always struck me as odd, we could very well have a global -70% crit damage taken buff on players in cyrodiil and be done with it.

    On the other hand, making blacklash a raidwide 20% dps boost would be ridiculously broken in pve, unless it didn't work on bosses in which case we were back to square one.
  • eliisra
    eliisra
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    So many bad skills in PvP. So hard to pick. This would be my top 3, that made into the finals.

    On DK:
    Fiery grip (Since we cant use it to pull from walls any more, I'm sticking with a proper gap closer)
    Stonefist (Keep rockin', knockin, 0 dmg)
    Petrify

    Templar:
    Radial sweep (Worse PvP Ultimate in the game)
    Rune Focus (If you want to make the ground glowy for fun)
    Healing Ritual (Let's pray while everyone dies)

    Sorc:
    Pet 1
    Pet 2
    Bound Armor (If you're into rp/cosplay?)

    NB:
    Blur (This should be a dmg absorbing shield, do it ZoS)
    Mark Target (Hi, I'm a sneaky NB about to jump you, so please start spamming purge and shield stack like a maniac)
    Agony
  • derpsticks
    derpsticks
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    @tplink3r1‌
    @dodgehopper_ESO‌

    Casting blinding light or its morphs gives the 500 spell resistance without any enemy being affected and so does solar barrage.

    The whole dawn's wrath tree makes no sense.

    Many skills/morphs from this line are either expensive, cannot crit, or only have the chance to crit once after 6-8 seconds. This results in less overall ultimate generation which greatly reduces their usefulness in both PVE and PVP. I can see how prism was supposed to help, but even with ult from prism the ult generation is low. This is because the skills either have a cast time that slows prism use (backlash / solar flare), are too expensive to spam (eclipse / blinding light), or not worth spamming (sun fire / solar barrage). Sun fire and its morphs are best not recast so their dots give potential crit ticks, while solar barrage does too low damage and has no effective dawn's wrath synergy skill to take advantage of the power buff that wont waste magicka. Furthermore, prism does not give ultimate when blinding light or its morphs are activated but it does when solar barrage is cast.

    Power of the light seems to only increase my power for the first hit and does not appear to do anything for the next 4 hits. This amounts to a whopping 2% increase to weapon damage. So instead of getting somewhere between 15 and 25 more weapon damage for 10 seconds you get 3-5. Furthermore, the weapon damage buff wouldn't even work with the entire skill line (except maybe the ult).

    So effectively dawn's wrath is somehow built around the perception that:

    1. There will be plenty of ultimate generation. (False, see above).
    2. Investing in the passives is a good thing. (False, enduring rays delays most skill's crit chance and gives marginal bonuses to the dots, prism is broken for some skills and is hampered in every way imaginable, illuminate does next to nothing for the entire skill tree, and restoring spirit hopes to help but falls very short reducing nova by 12 ult and many skills by no more than 10-16 stamina or magicka).
    3. The ultimate attainable and improved by the skills in the tree. (False, ultimate generation is terrible in dawn's wrath, the morphs either require someone else to activate or snare marginally more so than sun fire, the damage reduction is good but doesn't really work well with the rest of the tree).

    All in all I think dawn's wrath abilities are a mixed bag for both PVE and PVP. The tree seems to be the skeleton of a more useful set of skills that worked too well together.
  • tplink3r1
    tplink3r1
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    derpsticks wrote: »
    @tplink3r1‌
    @dodgehopper_ESO‌

    Casting blinding light or its morphs gives the 500 spell resistance without any enemy being affected and so does solar barrage.

    The whole dawn's wrath tree makes no sense.

    Many skills/morphs from this line are either expensive, cannot crit, or only have the chance to crit once after 6-8 seconds. This results in less overall ultimate generation which greatly reduces their usefulness in both PVE and PVP. I can see how prism was supposed to help, but even with ult from prism the ult generation is low. This is because the skills either have a cast time that slows prism use (backlash / solar flare), are too expensive to spam (eclipse / blinding light), or not worth spamming (sun fire / solar barrage). Sun fire and its morphs are best not recast so their dots give potential crit ticks, while solar barrage does too low damage and has no effective dawn's wrath synergy skill to take advantage of the power buff that wont waste magicka. Furthermore, prism does not give ultimate when blinding light or its morphs are activated but it does when solar barrage is cast.

    Power of the light seems to only increase my power for the first hit and does not appear to do anything for the next 4 hits. This amounts to a whopping 2% increase to weapon damage. So instead of getting somewhere between 15 and 25 more weapon damage for 10 seconds you get 3-5. Furthermore, the weapon damage buff wouldn't even work with the entire skill line (except maybe the ult).

    So effectively dawn's wrath is somehow built around the perception that:

    1. There will be plenty of ultimate generation. (False, see above).
    2. Investing in the passives is a good thing. (False, enduring rays delays most skill's crit chance and gives marginal bonuses to the dots, prism is broken for some skills and is hampered in every way imaginable, illuminate does next to nothing for the entire skill tree, and restoring spirit hopes to help but falls very short reducing nova by 12 ult and many skills by no more than 10-16 stamina or magicka).
    3. The ultimate attainable and improved by the skills in the tree. (False, ultimate generation is terrible in dawn's wrath, the morphs either require someone else to activate or snare marginally more so than sun fire, the damage reduction is good but doesn't really work well with the rest of the tree).

    All in all I think dawn's wrath abilities are a mixed bag for both PVE and PVP. The tree seems to be the skeleton of a more useful set of skills that worked too well together.
    t shows 500 spell resist bonus when you cast it, but its just visual (tested) if you dont hit the enemy.
    please, do tests before assuming things.
    Edited by tplink3r1 on November 27, 2014 2:34PM
    VR16 Templar
    VR3 Sorcerer
  • kewl
    kewl
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    Dawn's Wrath and Daedric Summoning trees need some work.
  • Jitterbug
    Jitterbug
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    Unstable Familiar
    Summon Winged Twilight
    Bound Armor
    Encase
    Rune Prison
    Daedric Mines
    Lightning Splash
    Surge
  • Roselle
    Roselle
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    eliisra wrote: »
    So many bad skills in PvP. So hard to pick. This would be my top 3, that made into the finals.

    Templar:
    Radial sweep (Worse PvP Ultimate in the game)
    Rune Focus (If you want to make the ground glowy for fun)
    Healing Ritual (Let's pray while everyone dies)

    Bolded because this may be the common misconception for those that don't utilize LOS or smart mobility when trying to burst heal.

    Or that I simply just don't like how you scorned this spell.

    Or maybe I'm just mad because it's a holiday.

    You can pick one. Be like Curious George.

    angry-dark-stare.png

  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    ^^ Healing ritual is a bad spell period. Long cast time, modest healing for that long cast time, very short range, and made redundant by the more versatile (and effective) healing springs.


  • Glory
    Glory
    Class Representative
    Chesimac wrote: »
    Cody wrote: »
    NB skill: Assassination Skill line: Blur.

    i cannot for the life of me find a reason to use this skill. Does it at least stack with evasion from the MA skill tree? please tell me it does.

    this skill grants a 15% chance to dodge enemy attacks for a limited amount of time. 15%.... meaning 3/20 hits will be dodged.

    how the heck is this supposed to be useful?? why use that, when i can simply go DW and use sparks?? or simply roll a templar/DK and use one of their dodge skills, that give at least twice the dodge chance? i just dont see a reason why anyone would use Blur.

    i think it needs to just be scraped and replaced with a damage shield and/or some kind of quick instant self heal. there are quite a few skills in this game i dont care for... but Blur is the top one for me

    It stacks with with evasion, often used in duels. I was also killed by a really good nightblade who was using it, so you never know

    From testing, many people have noticed that blur (miss chance) does not stack with evasion (evade). They appear to be separate rolls to hit. Additionally, while skills like evasion and other dodge passives (hist bark for example) are supposed to stack, tests are suggesting that this is bugged and only the highest rating is appearing.
    mDK will rise again.
    Rebuild Necromancer pet AI.

    @Glorious since I have too many characters to list

    Ádamant

    Strongly against Faction Lock
  • Roselle
    Roselle
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    ^^ Healing ritual is a bad spell period. Long cast time, modest healing for that long cast time, very short range, and made redundant by the more versatile (and effective) healing springs.

    Yeah, you go ahead with that. I'd like to see how well you react to Negate.
  • TheBull
    TheBull
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    NB - Agony. You do the cast animation over and over if someone is holding block but it never casts. Plus it has a 1.5 second cast time.

    NB - Blur. 15% chance to miss, buffed to 30% on activation for 2 seconds with the double take morph. Why would I cast this spell when it cost as much as Cloak, when cloak gives a 100% chance to miss... It's weak and redundant.
    Edited by TheBull on November 27, 2014 4:56PM
  • Cody
    Cody
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    Chesimac wrote: »
    Cody wrote: »
    NB skill: Assassination Skill line: Blur.

    i cannot for the life of me find a reason to use this skill. Does it at least stack with evasion from the MA skill tree? please tell me it does.

    this skill grants a 15% chance to dodge enemy attacks for a limited amount of time. 15%.... meaning 3/20 hits will be dodged.

    how the heck is this supposed to be useful?? why use that, when i can simply go DW and use sparks?? or simply roll a templar/DK and use one of their dodge skills, that give at least twice the dodge chance? i just dont see a reason why anyone would use Blur.

    i think it needs to just be scraped and replaced with a damage shield and/or some kind of quick instant self heal. there are quite a few skills in this game i dont care for... but Blur is the top one for me

    It stacks with with evasion, often used in duels. I was also killed by a really good nightblade who was using it, so you never know

    so ti DOES stack with evasion? alright, good. then its not as useless as i just said.
    still though, i can always just get sparks in its place.
  • Chesimac
    Chesimac
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    Hmm not sure after what @ebethke_ESO said.. it was stacking when I last dueled with that combo a couple months ago, but zeni might have screwed it since then
  • derpsticks
    derpsticks
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    @tplink3r1‌ sorry about the illuminate misinfo, I did notice the resist going up but didn't realize it is was just a ui thing. PotL is still bugged. I tested that.
  • SRIBES
    SRIBES
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    eliisra wrote: »
    So many bad skills in PvP. So hard to pick. This would be my top 3, that made into the finals.

    On DK:
    Fiery grip (Since we cant use it to pull from walls any more, I'm sticking with a proper gap closer)
    Stonefist (Keep rockin', knockin, 0 dmg)
    Petrify

    Templar:
    Radial sweep (Worse PvP Ultimate in the game)
    Rune Focus (If you want to make the ground glowy for fun)
    Healing Ritual (Let's pray while everyone dies)

    Sorc:
    Pet 1
    Pet 2
    Bound Armor (If you're into rp/cosplay?)

    NB:
    Blur (This should be a dmg absorbing shield, do it ZoS)
    Mark Target (Hi, I'm a sneaky NB about to jump you, so please start spamming purge and shield stack like a maniac)
    Agony

    Petrify is OP in 1v1, you can spam it over and over or if they dont have stamina to break it, you sit there and regen. Agree with everything else for the most part.
  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Roselle wrote: »
    ^^ Healing ritual is a bad spell period. Long cast time, modest healing for that long cast time, very short range, and made redundant by the more versatile (and effective) healing springs.

    Yeah, you go ahead with that. I'd like to see how well you react to Negate.

    I react to it the way I'd imagine most players react to it - I move out of its area of effect. When they move out of it, they will be the beneficiaries of immediate heals without fear of interruption that go beyond 10 meters.
    Edited by Joy_Division on November 27, 2014 11:25PM


  • Roselle
    Roselle
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    Roselle wrote: »
    ^^ Healing ritual is a bad spell period. Long cast time, modest healing for that long cast time, very short range, and made redundant by the more versatile (and effective) healing springs.

    Yeah, you go ahead with that. I'd like to see how well you react to Negate.

    I react to it the way I'd imagine most players react to it - I move out of its area of effect. When they move out of it, they will be the beneficiaries of immediate heals without fear of interruption that go beyond 10 meters.

    I'm not sure of the scenarios you've tried this spell out on, but I have tested this and using LOS and stacking with your allies are some of the ways to handle this spell in a pvp environment.

    I've come from a long gaming background and have dipped into a few games with cast time healing spells (some even needing speed reduction from triggers/gear stats) so I've worked with Ritual of Rebirth a lot and it does have use. My earlier remark to you was an indirect way of saying how using it (with immovable/unstoppable) could work in your favor.

    Also, it is not "moderate" healing if you gear to make restoring light heals shine.

    I could ramble on more, but I don't really want to tell anyone to do this, or do that. In my opinion, the best way for a gamer to keep growing is to do their own testing and find abilities that work with their playstyle.

    All in all, I just wanted to defend Healing Ritual. I <3 you baby.
  • Telel
    Telel
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    I'd like to say that I use blur on my bow bar, and have found it does add a level of survivability to my otherwise squishy build. Basically I wanted 1 assassination skill for the critical bonus, and none of the others really fit how things usually work for me in PVP. Also as a stamina build I couldn't justify evade as it'd take away from potential attacks, and the executes for bow, and 2hders were more useful than Impale would be.

    While 15 (30 for 2 seconds) is not super great it does last for quite some time so I can cast it right as the stuff is getting real, switch to my 2hd bar to get rally up, and swap back in time ot get some poison injections, shades, and snipes off. By the time it's wearing off I'm either dead, there's enough breathing room to refresh everything, or the fight's over.

    Combine with judicious roll dodging I'm often the last person to fall when things go south. In fact I've gotten tells from people in other factions about how some folks claim I'm hacking the system due to how often I avoid their attacks. Keep in mind I AM NOT a good player either.

    However I do think it could use just a bit of tweaking. Maybe something as high as 25% for the base, but not much more than that.
    Character: Telel
    Class: Night Blade-Werewolf-viking-ninja-catgirl-mallet wielder
    Past times: Refusing to go full magika spec, hitting things with a big hammer, sniping, and speaking in khajiit
    Also: Gelel the Derp Knight, Altsel the streaker, and Filafel the temp temp.

    Khajiit has a twitch stream! https://twitch.tv/telel_khajiit feel free to come see how truly unskilled Telel is.
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